Re: Vegetarianism and Bill Pearl

[Guest guest]

I have a friend, Saul Shockett, who was a World Class lifetime drug free

Powerlifter in the 80's, who is a vegetarian. He had an impressive build

and attained a 677 deadlift in the 181's. He earned his size and strength

sans meat.

I guess it can be done.

Robbie Stark

St. N.Y.

Re: Vegetarianism and Bill Pearl

Whitney Richtmyer wrote:

> My understanding is that Pearl 'earned' his size and strength as a

> meat eater, and maintained as a vegetarian. I could be wrong.

> Anbody got the lowdown on this?>>

Rosemary Vernon:

> This is exactly what I have heard and it was from a reliable

> source that doesn't just tend to spout nonsense. At training

> course, someone in the audience asked about being able to build a

> lot of muscle on a vegetarian diet, citing Bill Pearl as an example.

> The answer was that Bill Pearl was not a vegetarian in his youth and

> that if the person was really serious about packing on a lot of

> muscle (what Nature considers excess) they should " rethink your

> priorities. "

>

> I no longer have Bill Pearl's " Keys to the Universe, " but I think he

> mentioned something in there about *becoming* a vegetarian at some

> point in time, but I didn't get the feeling that it was when he was a

> young guy. Realizing that Bill is in his 70's, he could have easily

> been a vegetarian for 40 years, long after he built his physique.

> Like Whitney, however, I don't have any definite facts.

Mel Siff:

> [by this, are you implying that it is impossible to become a top

> level bodybuilder if you don't eat meat? Furthermore, it is valid

> to suggest that the affects of a meat-eating diet are still apparent

> many decades after someone has become a vegetarian? ]

In my regards, I'm not implying that. I am saying that *if* it is true that

Pearl

built his impressive musculature as a meat eater, and then turned to

vegetarianism

that this merely means that Pearl should not be used as an example of how

one can

build a world class physique on a vegi diet. That would be if he didn't in

fact do this.

It is easier to maintain musculature, than to build it. It takes less

effort to maintain

at a given level, than to improve.

I certainly think it is possible to build impressive musculature on a vegi

diet. I just

don't think that people should use Pearl as an example of this, if in fact

it was not the case.

So, what I object to is Pearl being used as an invalid example of the

possibility of building

a world class physique while abstaining from meats, etc. IF it is the case

that he did so,

then fine. However, if he was a meat eater during his building years, then

it would be

disingenuous to ignore that.

[Agreed! Mel Siff]

Whitney Richtmyer

Seattle, WA

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[Guest guest]

Whitney Richtmyer wrote:

> My understanding is that Pearl 'earned' his size and strength as a

> meat eater, and maintained as a vegetarian. I could be wrong.

> Anbody got the lowdown on this?>>

Rosemary Vernon:

> This is exactly what I have heard and it was from a reliable

> source that doesn't just tend to spout nonsense. At training

> course, someone in the audience asked about being able to build a

> lot of muscle on a vegetarian diet, citing Bill Pearl as an example.

> The answer was that Bill Pearl was not a vegetarian in his youth and

> that if the person was really serious about packing on a lot of

> muscle (what Nature considers excess) they should " rethink your

> priorities. "

>

> I no longer have Bill Pearl's " Keys to the Universe, " but I think he

> mentioned something in there about *becoming* a vegetarian at some

> point in time, but I didn't get the feeling that it was when he was a

> young guy. Realizing that Bill is in his 70's, he could have easily

> been a vegetarian for 40 years, long after he built his physique.

> Like Whitney, however, I don't have any definite facts.

Mel Siff:

> [by this, are you implying that it is impossible to become a top

> level bodybuilder if you don't eat meat? Furthermore, it is valid

> to suggest that the affects of a meat-eating diet are still apparent

> many decades after someone has become a vegetarian? ]

In my regards, I'm not implying that. I am saying that *if* it is true that

Pearl

built his impressive musculature as a meat eater, and then turned to

vegetarianism

that this merely means that Pearl should not be used as an example of how one

can

build a world class physique on a vegi diet. That would be if he didn't in fact

do this.

It is easier to maintain musculature, than to build it. It takes less effort to

maintain

at a given level, than to improve.

I certainly think it is possible to build impressive musculature on a vegi diet.

I just

don't think that people should use Pearl as an example of this, if in fact it

was not the case.

So, what I object to is Pearl being used as an invalid example of the

possibility of building

a world class physique while abstaining from meats, etc. IF it is the case that

he did so,

then fine. However, if he was a meat eater during his building years, then it

would be

disingenuous to ignore that.

[Agreed! Mel Siff]

Whitney Richtmyer

Seattle, WA

[Guest guest]

I thought, since I'm probably one of the only vegetarians on the

list, that a vegetarian view point should be represented. I was a

vegetarian for about 4 years before I ever pursued fitness. When I

finally came around to hoisting some iron for the sake of aesthetic

manipulation, known to many as bodybuilding, I was about 127 pounds,

23 years old and 5'10'' tall. Ten years later, I'm no monster, but

I've peaked at about 190 (I compete at PL at about 180) and, although

increasing size at this point is difficult, I can do it but it's not

my goal (I'd rather compete in the 181 weight class).

I do get the protein I need, albeit supplemented a bit. I do get the

EFA's I need, plus I get a considerable amount of veggies and fiber.

What exactly would a meat-enhanced diet bring me that I don't have?

Maybe some extra B vitamins? Would I achieve a greater lifting

prowess or substantial hypertrophic benefits if the past 10 years

have been meatier? I don't know. Can anyone offer me a reason why

things might have been different? 'Twould be interesting to

speculate, though I'm pretty happy where I am.

I do agree that Bill Pearl, although one of the nicest

representatives of iron sports, may not be a suitable candidate for

vegetarinism and bodybuilding.

Chip Conrad

Sacramento, CA

[Guest guest]

Pearl was an omnivore for some decades. As I recall, he wrote about

the shift in his Inner Universe although the word was out in print

prior to that. Without the text in front of me, as I recall after one

of his big contest wins - either in the late 60s or early 70s - a

routine physical examination revealed very high cholestorl levels,

etc. He realized his outward appearance of fitness was not in

alignment with his actual inner condition. Seem to remember he pretty

much went on a fast for a short time, as I recall living on potatoes!

His conversion to vegetarianism occured then. For health reasons. He

has since stated he feels a definite shift in emotion as a result,

becoming less aggressive, more tolerant and compassionately

understanding of others.

I think it important to realize Pearl maintained an exceptional

physique, strength levels, and level of conditioning for decades

following that - and a bodyweight around 225, a scant 17 pounds less

than contest shape, well into his sixties as a vegetarian. Those

photos of him in his very late 50s set a standard in and of

themself!!!

Another strength athlete long a vegetarian is former Mr America and

outstanding Olympic lifter Roy Hillegan. Read recently that Hillegan,

now back in South Africa (due to problems with the law in the USA?)

did a reported 30+ reps in the deadlift with 400 lbs, winning

competition with far younger guys, at 76 years of age. Hillegan's

been a vegetarian for 40 or more years.

In principle, vegetarian eating habits should have no adverse effects

on gaining mass or strength - especially with the protein supplements

available today, our growing knowledge of sports nutrition, and

sensible approaches to vegetarian eating including combining food

methods.

regards,

Ken O'Neill

Tucson, Arizona

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote:

<<Are you implying that it is impossible to become a top level

bodybuilder if you don't eat meat?>>

**** No, but there are all sorts of vegetarians and this has not

been qualified in this case. I think we have to take it farther and

ask what kind of vegetarian? A person who eats eggs and dairy

products and uses whey protein powder can get a lot of very high

quality protein without eating meat. An egg is, after all, simply

an undeveloped bird or reptile. That would make a big difference

than someone who only ate vegetable matter, whether they ate

combinations of foods that were supposedly complete proteins or

not.>>

<<Furthermore, is it valid to suggest that the affects of a

meat-eating diet are still apparent

many decades after someone has become a vegetarian?>>

**** Again, it probably has to do with what kind of vegetarian the

person is and their genetics. Remember Bill Pearl has tremendous

genetics. I do agree with Whit that it takes less in the way of

calories and protein to maintain a physique than to build it in the

first place and especially a competition level physique.

Rosemary Vernon

Editor, Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.

A Not-For-Profit Corporation

www.dolfzine.com

Marina del Rey, CA

IronRoses@...

http://www.chuckietechie.com

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you wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Rosemary wrote,

>

>**** No, but there are all sorts of vegetarians and this has not

>been qualified in this case. I think we have to take it farther and

>ask what kind of vegetarian? A person who eats eggs and dairy

>products and uses whey protein powder can get a lot of very high

>quality protein without eating meat. An egg is, after all, simply

>an undeveloped bird or reptile. That would make a big difference

>than someone who only ate vegetable matter, whether they ate

>combinations of foods that were supposedly complete proteins or

>not.>>

Not to dispute Rosemary's point that vegetarians who eat eggs and dairy

products can get a lot of high quality protein, but...

An egg is not a underdeveloped bird or reptile unless it has been

fertilized. In which case it is a diploid cell and the correct term is no

longer egg.

Eggs that are sold are normally haploid cells. They cannot possibly grow or

develop into a bird or reptile (or mammal as some mammals also have shelled

eggs - eg turtles) unless they are first fertilized by another haploid cell

- the sperm cell.

Just making this clear less someone whose has ethical concerns about eating

animals suddenly quits on eggs as well because of Rosemary's remark.

Personally I enjoy my protein the most in the form of beef.

:^)

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA