/was: Re:Chelation - suppositories

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I am sure you are right about the half

life situation, but the French and many other Europeans have been giving pain

killing suppositories to

their children for years, and I cant

imagine that those children all have problems with ‘psychosexual

development’.

I agree that it may not be appropriate for

adolescents to receive medication this way but for younger children I wouldn’t

have a problem with it

at all. I remember when I lived

in upstate New York and the horror on the faces of other mothers on the beach as my

two year old ran around

naked! Its just a matter of taste in

my opinion and I think that people can over think things.

Just my opinion, no offence intended, but I

wouldn’t want people to think that they are perverted if this is

the only option for them to get a chelator in

to their child.

Sal x

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

[mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of

Sent: 29

February 2008 14:21

To:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

Subject: Re:

/was: Re:Chelation - suppositories

Hi ,

I'm not in favor of suppositories,

not because they don't work, but for the potential that a parent administering

regular suppositories can have on the psychosexual development of a child.

I don't think the Dan! drs quite

thought this one through. Oral is fine, works well and has no danger of

creating some real problems for the adolescent.

Suppositories would also have to be

administered every 3 hours to make sure regression doesn't occur, not exactly a

comfortable proposition for anyone.

IMHO, I'd rethink this. Please ask

any mental health clinician and he/she will undoubtedly have the same

reservations. Dr. Jackie McCandless has also expressed the same strong opinion

" against " suppositories for the same reasons above.

Re:Chelation - suppositories

Originally doctor planned on oral

DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating

suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead.

Would love people's feedback on

their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/

I'm terrified of regression.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I am sure you are right about the half

life situation, but the French and many other Europeans have been giving pain

killing suppositories to

their children for years, and I cant

imagine that those children all have problems with ‘psychosexual

development’.

I agree that it may not be appropriate for

adolescents to receive medication this way but for younger children I wouldn’t

have a problem with it

at all. I remember when I lived

in upstate New York and the horror on the faces of other mothers on the beach as my

two year old ran around

naked! Its just a matter of taste in

my opinion and I think that people can over think things.

Just my opinion, no offence intended, but I

wouldn’t want people to think that they are perverted if this is

the only option for them to get a chelator in

to their child.

Sal x

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

[mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of

Sent: 29

February 2008 14:21

To:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

Subject: Re:

/was: Re:Chelation - suppositories

Hi ,

I'm not in favor of suppositories,

not because they don't work, but for the potential that a parent administering

regular suppositories can have on the psychosexual development of a child.

I don't think the Dan! drs quite

thought this one through. Oral is fine, works well and has no danger of

creating some real problems for the adolescent.

Suppositories would also have to be

administered every 3 hours to make sure regression doesn't occur, not exactly a

comfortable proposition for anyone.

IMHO, I'd rethink this. Please ask

any mental health clinician and he/she will undoubtedly have the same

reservations. Dr. Jackie McCandless has also expressed the same strong opinion

" against " suppositories for the same reasons above.

Re:Chelation - suppositories

Originally doctor planned on oral

DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating

suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead.

Would love people's feedback on

their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/

I'm terrified of regression.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,

I'm never offended when others' give their opinion. I don't get personally involved with an idea :-) unless it gets personal, which you did not.

But I still disagree with you. Actually, the most damage from the "regular" giving of suppositories would occur between the ages of 2 and 8 years, because that is the most critical time of psychosexual development.

Sexual orientation appears at around 12 to 15 and is the sum result of a persons' experience from birth on, again the most critical time, 2-8 years.

And, I don't think this is a cultural difference. There is some difference between the occasional adminstration of pain killers given as a suppository while a child is clearly ill with a fever and the regular administration of a chelator that may have to be given every 3-4 hours every week or every other week for 2-3 years.

Besides the psychological aspect given the choice what would any of us rather have, oral or suppository? And it's just that, there is no advantage to the suppositories, still creates yeast and no appreciable difference in the ability of oral or suppositories in the method of recovery.

I can be wrong. Despite my 3 degrees in human development and 18 years of practice as a clinical psychologist, I still learn things everyday. But I feel so strongly about this one that the only way I would use suppositories on our little one would be if she had no mouth for the oral, no arms or legs for the transdermal.

I have seen the result of parents who "regularly" administered enemas for sometimes real conditions and the very unsavory results that this practice has.

Re:Chelation - suppositories

Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead.

Would love people's feedback on their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm terrified of regression.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,

I'm never offended when others' give their opinion. I don't get personally involved with an idea :-) unless it gets personal, which you did not.

But I still disagree with you. Actually, the most damage from the "regular" giving of suppositories would occur between the ages of 2 and 8 years, because that is the most critical time of psychosexual development.

Sexual orientation appears at around 12 to 15 and is the sum result of a persons' experience from birth on, again the most critical time, 2-8 years.

And, I don't think this is a cultural difference. There is some difference between the occasional adminstration of pain killers given as a suppository while a child is clearly ill with a fever and the regular administration of a chelator that may have to be given every 3-4 hours every week or every other week for 2-3 years.

Besides the psychological aspect given the choice what would any of us rather have, oral or suppository? And it's just that, there is no advantage to the suppositories, still creates yeast and no appreciable difference in the ability of oral or suppositories in the method of recovery.

I can be wrong. Despite my 3 degrees in human development and 18 years of practice as a clinical psychologist, I still learn things everyday. But I feel so strongly about this one that the only way I would use suppositories on our little one would be if she had no mouth for the oral, no arms or legs for the transdermal.

I have seen the result of parents who "regularly" administered enemas for sometimes real conditions and the very unsavory results that this practice has.

Re:Chelation - suppositories

Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead.

Would love people's feedback on their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm terrified of regression.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

,

I probably could write a book on this topic.

I was brought up in Canada of British parents but affilated with many

cultures especially at university especially with Middle Easterns . I

have flown between N.A and Europe on a regular basis since 20 years.

There is a very strong cultural sexual difference betwen the two

continents.....

Britain developed a very strong n sexual orientation which they

have have divorced themselves from most strenuously in the last decades.

However, the European continent (where I spent 20 years) has always been

more lax in that regard. I think the Victorain influence still massively

pervades and still does prevail in North America.

I see this diversity so well in my daughter whose primary education took

place in Germany but in 3 different national school systems:

She attended a typical state (albeit catholic) kindergarten in Germany

where everything was touchy feely...talked bowels, whatever...that is

Germany..( I lived there 20 years so can attest to the normality of

that...).

Then she went to a proper French Lycee (same city) for 3 years where

everybody embraced and kissed on both cheeks every morning and did same

when they departed at days end. Intimate health and sexual problems were

discussed most freely..would have embarassed the averaged US citizen...)

AND then she attended an international school ( 3 years) , mostly

American/Japanese/German. Most of the teachers (mostly Brits and

Americans) got VERY nervous when she gave them a kiss and embrace at the

end of the day.....I was told that they were not against the physicality

but with cultural problems back in their native countres, they preferred

not to have any touching whatsoever.......My French and German friends

of course thought the Americans extremely hyperfocused on potential

sexual perversion. I tended to agree.

But to get back to you......A German or French mum would have no

difficulty with rectal supps... But I do understand how an American or

Canadian mum might have difficulties......

, I am absolutely sure you are clued in over there and that is

where you are expert.......Having worked in social work over there

myself, I would not have approached this any othe way in North America....

However, over here ....there is a completely different history which

results in a completely different modern day attitude to everything.

Your attitude is not wrong nor right...

things are just....different.....over here....

schrieb:

>

> Hi Sally,

> I'm never offended when others' give their opinion. I don't get

> personally involved with an idea :-) unless it gets personal, which

> you did not.

> But I still disagree with you. Actually, the most damage from the

> " regular " giving of suppositories would occur between the ages of 2

> and 8 years, because that is the most critical time of psychosexual

> development.

> Sexual orientation appears at around 12 to 15 and is the sum result of

> a persons' experience from birth on, again the most critical time, 2-8

> years.

> And, I don't think this is a cultural difference. There is some

> difference between the occasional adminstration of pain killers given

> as a suppository while a child is clearly ill with a fever and the

> regular administration of a chelator that may have to be given every

> 3-4 hours every week or every other week for 2-3 years.

> Besides the psychological aspect given the choice what would any of us

> rather have, oral or suppository? And it's just that, there is no

> advantage to the suppositories, still creates yeast and no appreciable

> difference in the ability of oral or suppositories in the method of

> recovery.

> I can be wrong. Despite my 3 degrees in human development and 18 years

> of practice as a clinical psychologist, I still learn things everyday.

> But I feel so strongly about this one that the only way I would use

> suppositories on our little one would be if she had no mouth for the

> oral, no arms or legs for the transdermal.

> I have seen the result of parents who " regularly " administered enemas

> for sometimes real conditions and the very unsavory results that this

> practice has.

>

>

> * Re:Chelation - suppositories

>

> Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my

> research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories

> of DMSA/DMPS instead.

>

> Would love people's feedback on their experiences of

> suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm

> terrified of regression.

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 28/02/2008

12:14

>

[Guest guest]

,

I probably could write a book on this topic.

I was brought up in Canada of British parents but affilated with many

cultures especially at university especially with Middle Easterns . I

have flown between N.A and Europe on a regular basis since 20 years.

There is a very strong cultural sexual difference betwen the two

continents.....

Britain developed a very strong n sexual orientation which they

have have divorced themselves from most strenuously in the last decades.

However, the European continent (where I spent 20 years) has always been

more lax in that regard. I think the Victorain influence still massively

pervades and still does prevail in North America.

I see this diversity so well in my daughter whose primary education took

place in Germany but in 3 different national school systems:

She attended a typical state (albeit catholic) kindergarten in Germany

where everything was touchy feely...talked bowels, whatever...that is

Germany..( I lived there 20 years so can attest to the normality of

that...).

Then she went to a proper French Lycee (same city) for 3 years where

everybody embraced and kissed on both cheeks every morning and did same

when they departed at days end. Intimate health and sexual problems were

discussed most freely..would have embarassed the averaged US citizen...)

AND then she attended an international school ( 3 years) , mostly

American/Japanese/German. Most of the teachers (mostly Brits and

Americans) got VERY nervous when she gave them a kiss and embrace at the

end of the day.....I was told that they were not against the physicality

but with cultural problems back in their native countres, they preferred

not to have any touching whatsoever.......My French and German friends

of course thought the Americans extremely hyperfocused on potential

sexual perversion. I tended to agree.

But to get back to you......A German or French mum would have no

difficulty with rectal supps... But I do understand how an American or

Canadian mum might have difficulties......

, I am absolutely sure you are clued in over there and that is

where you are expert.......Having worked in social work over there

myself, I would not have approached this any othe way in North America....

However, over here ....there is a completely different history which

results in a completely different modern day attitude to everything.

Your attitude is not wrong nor right...

things are just....different.....over here....

schrieb:

>

> Hi Sally,

> I'm never offended when others' give their opinion. I don't get

> personally involved with an idea :-) unless it gets personal, which

> you did not.

> But I still disagree with you. Actually, the most damage from the

> " regular " giving of suppositories would occur between the ages of 2

> and 8 years, because that is the most critical time of psychosexual

> development.

> Sexual orientation appears at around 12 to 15 and is the sum result of

> a persons' experience from birth on, again the most critical time, 2-8

> years.

> And, I don't think this is a cultural difference. There is some

> difference between the occasional adminstration of pain killers given

> as a suppository while a child is clearly ill with a fever and the

> regular administration of a chelator that may have to be given every

> 3-4 hours every week or every other week for 2-3 years.

> Besides the psychological aspect given the choice what would any of us

> rather have, oral or suppository? And it's just that, there is no

> advantage to the suppositories, still creates yeast and no appreciable

> difference in the ability of oral or suppositories in the method of

> recovery.

> I can be wrong. Despite my 3 degrees in human development and 18 years

> of practice as a clinical psychologist, I still learn things everyday.

> But I feel so strongly about this one that the only way I would use

> suppositories on our little one would be if she had no mouth for the

> oral, no arms or legs for the transdermal.

> I have seen the result of parents who " regularly " administered enemas

> for sometimes real conditions and the very unsavory results that this

> practice has.

>

>

> * Re:Chelation - suppositories

>

> Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my

> research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories

> of DMSA/DMPS instead.

>

> Would love people's feedback on their experiences of

> suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm

> terrified of regression.

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 28/02/2008

12:14

>

[Guest guest]

Celia,

i recently read that acne

is a sign of liver problems so might be helped by things like milk thistle –

DH read it actually, I don’t know where. Is this something you’ve

heard of ? I suppose in the case of an adolescent, it’s

just adolescence causing it. Sara

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

[mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of celia4259

Sent: 01 March 2008 12:52

To:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

Subject: /was: Re:Chelation - suppositories

>

> Until this problem is sorted there will be no progress at all with

> biomed. I have been reading the posts about regression in males at

> puberty with considerable alarm. >

Hi Margaret

If it makes you feel any better, my experience with Adam and puberty

is the opposite. He is making good progress, although I do have a bit

of a on occassions, e.g. he always bangs his bedroom door shut,

sometimes in my face! Wants to stay up all night and sleep all

morning. Very very teenage, with teenage grumpiness for no apparent

reason sometimes. Testing his boundaries within the limits imposed by

his disability and being stuck at home bored mostly. But no loss of

skills - no regression as I see it. Very good improvements in

behaviour in fact.

Most significantly, he has recently increased his verbal responses,

in frequency and clarity, to 1 and even 2 words, unprompted, and

different words to any question I might use. This is amazing me and

everybody else who knows him has noticed and commented the same,

without being asked.

I am interested in what Anita said about longer term treatments being

necessary when dealing with viruses, bacteria, fungi etc. The *only*

thing I am doing different (he's on bare minimum of supps since money

ran out and Tribunal etc) is long term antibiotics for his acne,

started before Chrismas, and ongoing. Now is this a coincidence or is

it related to the dramatic increase in speech? I do not know.

Normally, when treating infections etc, a course of antibiotics is

time limited, so he has not had long term use before. It is of a

mild varitety so as not to upset his gut too much - minocycline.

Has anybody else here on the list tried it?

Celia

[Guest guest]

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore any posts, but we have a bit of a situation here. My dd has gotten the flu....and it is Girl Scout Cookie weekend....great timing, right? So I have our little one full time keeping her away from Mum in the hopes she doesn't get sick.

Throw in one patient who was atop a building last night at 3 in the morning and an adolescent who decided to lose it this weekend....no rest for the wicked. In the meantime I'm thinking about and Celia's comments and appreciating the discussion...things should get back to normal by Monday.

Running myself ragged but the cookies are keeping up my strength, do you have Girl Scouts over there or is this a totally U.S. thing?

Re:Chelation - suppositories> > > > Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead. > > Would love people's feedback on their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm terrified of regression.> > Thanks> > >

[Guest guest]

My doctor is not recommending 3 hourly, she is saying once a fortnight, working up to 2 days a fortnight. You are right suppositories 3 hourly is definitely not a good idea. Have you ever heard of fortnightly suppositories?

(feeling very confused)

[Guest guest]

>

> Anita

> I am giving him tons of Zinc. Have not done HBOT - as you say no

money

> for it. If I get time to put in application to Cauldwell will go

for

> it - looked at the application requirements and it looked time

> consuming and as you can imagine it has had to take a back seat.

I've just made the first step of the Cauldwell application. That

first step isn't too long. Maybe an hour. I think the later steps

might be more time consuming, but they seem to be weeks down the road.

> ATA is like another language to me - do not know what that means.

ATA is the atmospheres--how " deep " you go in the dive. Although most

kids with autism seem to go 1.3 or 1.5, I think going 1.75 is better

is child can tolerate it well. I don't think deeper than that would

be recommneded, although people with MS go deeper.

>

> In terms of additional multi-pronged appoach, which would you

suggest?

I really like olive leaf extract or oil of oregano as

antibacterials. The oil of oregano tastes awful, so when I use it I

place the drops inside a capsule and then take it.

I'm so happy to hear the news that Adam is making progress in the

language. I think you're really on to something here :-)

Anita

[Guest guest]

,

This is the other reason chelator/suppositories are not the best way to go. Chelators need to be given with regard to their half-life, or how long they stay active in the body.

Because the chelators (dmsa) pick up the mercury and if given frequently enough they end up escorting the mercury/metals out of the body. If not given frequently enough they drop the mercury/metals and then the metals go into places we don't want them to go, or redistribute to sensitive parts of the body, like the brain, and can make our kids worse and/or cause troublesome side effects.

For Dmsa the half-life is 4 hours, not a fortnight, not that I know what a fornight is but if it's longer than 4 hours it doesn't matter, it can made your boy worse.

It is confusing but it's a pretty well known fact that drs, particularly Dan! drs don't know the basics about how to chelate properly.

Ask Mandi or the others' on the list for some things you can read that illustrate the above points.

Re: /was: Re:Chelation - suppositories

My doctor is not recommending 3 hourly, she is saying once a fortnight, working up to 2 days a fortnight. You are right suppositories 3 hourly is definitely not a good idea. Have you ever heard of fortnightly suppositories?

(feeling very confused)

[Guest guest]

* Re:Chelation -

>> suppositories

>>

>> Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my

>> research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories

>> of DMSA/DMPS instead.

>>

>> Would love people's feedback on their experiences of

>> suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm

>> terrified of regression.

>>

>> Thanks

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date:

>> 28/02/2008 12:14

>>

>

>

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical

> advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably

> qualified practitioner.

>

>

[Guest guest]

* Re:Chelation -

>> suppositories

>>

>> Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my

>> research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories

>> of DMSA/DMPS instead.

>>

>> Would love people's feedback on their experiences of

>> suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm

>> terrified of regression.

>>

>> Thanks

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date:

>> 28/02/2008 12:14

>>

>

>

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical

> advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably

> qualified practitioner.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re:Chelation - suppositories> > > > Originally doctor planned on oral DMSA, so I did all my research on that. Now she suggested alternating suppositories of DMSA/DMPS instead. > > Would love people's feedback on their experiences of suppositories. We have high lead as well as other metals/ I'm terrified of regression.> > Thanks> > >