Re: Vicky - voices, was: Jerking/Stimming

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sally I will give the patches a go, he is verbal so will be able to tell me if he feels weird.

I had nightmares with the patches but was wearing them at night, I say nightmares but they were really vivid dreams that kind of stayed with me throughout the next day.

Vicky

x

[Guest guest]

Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes learning at school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the next lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as part of autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on 's jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria for this, he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical autism type stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions OCD as being part of this condition in some cases. Apparently it waxes and wanes but never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more than once a day.

He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't seen another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if this is the case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually had nothing to do with these behaviours!

Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is really extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy, but maybe not.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Galantamine is a nicotine receptor blocker, I think. There is a nicotine

receptor blocking drug which gives terrible hallucinations as an

occasional side effect. I think it is called Chamfix. There was a long

article by someone who took it in order to give up smoking -- describing

his hallucinations and changed emotions. I was told that there are

nictine receptors throughout the brain with all sorts of different

functions -- one set must be in charge of interpreting reality. The

article (in the Independent) described how this chap became unable to

tell shadows from people and objects from their background. It was truly

fascinating in an appalling sort of way and as I read it I wondered if

some of our children see this sliding, mutagenic reality.

Returning to , try a nicotine patch

xx Sally

natasa778 wrote:

>

> just written to you off list but wanted to ask re hallucinations if

> also has memory cognitive problems with it?

>

> also one good link:

>

> http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm

> <http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm>

>

> natasa x

>

>

> >

> > Thanks Sharon, do you get the anti histamine from the Doctor?

> > Taurine used to do the job for , but not so much anymore.

> > I really am the worlds worst worrier but it looks like Tics, is that

> > possible?

> > Vicky

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 24/02/2008

12:19

>

[Guest guest]

Two things come to mind, shortage of acetylcholine and/or lack of DHA. I know its expensive but why dont you try that glycerolcholine that Anita suggested. If you buy it and it doesnt work I'll buy the rest from you. MaddiganV@... wrote: Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes learning at school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the next lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton. I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as part of autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty. Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on 's jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria for this, he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical autism type stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions OCD as being part of this condition in some cases. Apparently it waxes and wanes but never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more than once a day. He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't seen another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if this is the case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually had nothing to do with these behaviours! Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is

really extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy, but maybe not. Vicky

[Guest guest]

I'll try and find this article, maybe he could say if it reminds him of

his experiences because it sounds quite a lot like yours.Maybe wait with

the patches if you had a bad reaction and I'll try and find the article

or the drug. The protocol which was half-revealed on another list

(revealed as a secret) was galantamine plus nicotine patches. I asked my

brother why put in nicotine and block it -- he said there were lots of

nicotine receptors in the brain and the on ly way to tell which ones

were important in your particular case was to experiment. But

experimenting on doesn't sound like a good idea right now

xx Sally

MaddiganV@... wrote:

>

> Thanks Sally I will give the patches a go, he is verbal so will be

> able to tell me if he feels weird.

> I had nightmares with the patches but was wearing them at night, I

> say nightmares but they were really vivid dreams that kind of stayed

> with me throughout the next day.

> Vicky

> x

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 24/02/2008

12:19

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this it's really interesting, I will definitely follow it up.

The Psychiatrist says many people with autism develop OCD which is what she is saying he has and is causing the voices. I am on many lists mostly just reading and don't know more than a couple or three who are having this, well they may have obsessions but not many hearing voices or visions.

I actually think it's his memory that causes his LD's, he is switched on in so many ways, fully verbal, but he cannot remember tiddly squat, it's quite shocking how bad it is, even simple things are out of his head as quick as they went in. demonstrates better memory!

Vicky

[Guest guest]

He is dx high functioning autistic, not Aspergers due to late onset language and LD's.

She said OCD because of the voices, she has kind of ignored the visions, I call them that because that is what he calls them. I do think a lot of the time she was trying to reassure, that it wasn't that awful maybe and not to bring more anxiety by over worrying.

They also think he may be depressed, I don't know if that is clinically depressed or as a result of what is going on, would lean towards the latter though as it's hardly normal for a 13yr old to be going through all this.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

He is dx high functioning autistic, not Aspergers due to late onset language and LD's.

She said OCD because of the voices, she has kind of ignored the visions, I call them that because that is what he calls them. I do think a lot of the time she was trying to reassure, that it wasn't that awful maybe and not to bring more anxiety by over worrying.

They also think he may be depressed, I don't know if that is clinically depressed or as a result of what is going on, would lean towards the latter though as it's hardly normal for a 13yr old to be going through all this.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

bullseye! same type of receptors in the brain are linked to memory (or memory problems if dysfunctional) as well as hallucinations - they are called acetylcholine receptors (abbreviated AChR) . Galantamine is an antagonist and is for that reason indicated for both schizophrenia and Alzheimer's as well as Parkinsons... also interesting that there is high prevalence of smoking in schizophrenics, thought to be self- medicating this way..there are loads of studies and small trials out there (not large scale trials) but overall showing promising results for memory and cognition in those disorders... Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2007 Jun;321(3):1179-82. Epub 2007 Mar 20. The acetylcholinesterase inhibitor galantamine inhibits d-amphetamine-induced psychotic-like behavior in Cebus monkeys.Andersen MB, ...Research Institute of Biological Psychiatry, Sct. Hans Hospital, Roskilde, Denmark.Cholinergic

receptors (AChR) are reported altered in brains from schizophrenic

patients, and a growing body of evidence suggests that muscarinic

receptor agonists exhibit antipsychotic potential. Centrally acting

selective muscarinic receptor agonists are currently not available for

clinical use, but acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitors, which

indirectly stimulate AChR by blocking the breakdown of acetylcholine by

AChE, are widely used in the clinic against Alzheimer's disease. AChE

inhibitors have been reported to exhibit antipsychotic efficacy in

Alzheimer's disease patients, and these compounds have also been

investigated as adjunctive treatment to antipsychotic medication in

schizophrenic patients with varying results. However, monotherapy with

AChE inhibitors in schizophrenic patients has not been evaluated. We

wanted to investigate the antipsychotic potential of the AChE inhibitor

galantamine, which also allosterically potentiates nicotinic receptor

stimulation. To this end, we investigated its ability to antagonize

d-amphetamine-induced psychotic-like behavior in extrapyramidal side

effects (EPS)-primed Cebus monkeys. Galantamine inhibited

d-amphetamine-induced unrest, arousal, and stereotypy. Side effects

such as emesis, sedation, and EPS were minor or not existing. The

results indicate that AChE inhibitors have antipsychotic potentials and

suggest that clinical trials investigating antipsychotic effects of

AChE inhibitors as monotherapy would be of interest.PMID: 17374745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]>> Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes learning at > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the next > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.> I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as part of > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.> Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on 's > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria for this, > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical autism type > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions OCD as > being part of this condition in some cases. Apparently it waxes and wanes but > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more than > once a day.> He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't seen > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if this is the > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually had nothing to > do with these behaviours!> Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is really > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy, but maybe not.> Vicky>

[Guest guest]

sorry, meant to say galantamine is an agonist - well, not exacly but it

works in a roundabout way...

> >

> > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

learning

> at

> > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the

> next

> > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as

part

> of

> > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

> > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on

> 's

> > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria

> for this,

> > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical

> autism type

> > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions

OCD

> as

> > being part of this condition in some cases. Apparently it waxes

and

> wanes but

> > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more

> than

> > once a day.

> > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't

seen

> > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if

> this is the

> > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually

had

> nothing to

> > do with these behaviours!

> > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is

really

> > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy,

> but maybe not.

> > Vicky

> >

>

[Guest guest]

But not a high prevalence oif smokers amongst people with autism --

indicating that they are different?

Sally

natasa778 wrote:

>

> bullseye! same type of receptors in the brain are linked to memory (or

> memory problems if dysfunctional) as well as hallucinations - they are

> called *acetylcholine receptors* (abbreviated *AChR*) . Galantamine

> is an antagonist and is for that reason indicated for both

> schizophrenia and Alzheimer's as well as Parkinsons... also

> interesting that there is high prevalence of smoking in

> schizophrenics, thought to be self- medicating this way..

>

> there are loads of studies and small trials out there (not large scale

> trials) but overall showing promising results for memory and cognition

> in those disorders...

>

> Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2007 Jun;321(3):1179-82. Epub 2007 Mar 20.

>

>

> e inhibitor galantamine inhibits d-amphetamine-induced

> psychotic-like behavior in Cebus monkeys.

>

> *Andersen MB*

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1>,

> ...Research Institute of Biological Psychiatry, Sct. Hans

> Hospital, Roskilde, Denmark.

>

> Cholinergic receptors (AChR) are reported altered in brains from

> schizophrenic patients, and a growing body of evidence suggests

> that muscarinic receptor agonists exhibit antipsychotic potential.

> Centrally acting selective muscarinic receptor agonists are

> currently not available for clinical use, but acetylcholinesterase

> (AChE) inhibitors, which indirectly stimulate AChR by blocking the

> breakdown of acetylcholine by AChE, are widely used in the clinic

> against Alzheimer's disease. AChE inhibitors have been reported to

> exhibit antipsychotic efficacy in Alzheimer's disease patients,

> and these compounds have also been investigated as adjunctive

> treatment to antipsychotic medication in schizophrenic patients

> with varying results. However, monotherapy with AChE inhibitors in

> schizophrenic patients has not been evaluated. We wanted to

> investigate the antipsychotic potential of the AChE inhibitor

> galantamine, which also allosterically potentiates nicotinic

> receptor stimulation. To this end, we investigated its ability to

> antagonize d-amphetamine-induced psychotic-like behavior in

> extrapyramidal side effects (EPS)-primed Cebus monkeys.

> Galantamine inhibited d-amphetamine-induced unrest, arousal, and

> stereotypy. Side effects such as emesis, sedation, and EPS were

> minor or not existing.* The results indicate that AChE inhibitors

> have antipsychotic potentials and suggest that clinical trials

> investigating antipsychotic effects of AChE inhibitors as

> monotherapy would be of interest.*

>

> PMID: 17374745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> learning at

> > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the

> next

> > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as

> part of

> > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

> > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on

> 's

> > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria

> for this,

> > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical

> autism type

> > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions

> OCD as

> > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes and

> wanes but

> > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more

> than

> > once a day.

> > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't seen

> > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if

> this is the

> > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually

> had nothing to

> > do with these behaviours!

> > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is really

> > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy,

> but maybe not.

> > Vicky

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 24/02/2008

12:19

>

[Guest guest]

Different of course, although why nicotine patches+galantamine is now

said to be working for autism is anyone's guess...

On the other side 's current symptoms are from schizophrenia

books not autism. And memory problems are closer to dementia than autism

in general don't you think. If anything it looks like ASD people have

better memory than general population (at least in the case of my ds,

who has always had amazing memory)

Natasa

> > >

> > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > learning at

> > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to

the

> > next

> > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as

> > part of

> > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

> > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info

on

> > 's

> > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx

criteria

> > for this,

> > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical

> > autism type

> > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions

> > OCD as

> > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes and

> > wanes but

> > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but

more

> > than

> > > once a day.

> > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't

seen

> > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on,

if

> > this is the

> > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually

> > had nothing to

> > > do with these behaviours!

> > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is

really

> > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a

paddy,

> > but maybe not.

> > > Vicky

> > >

> >

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

24/02/2008 12:19

> >

>

[Guest guest]

this is the first time I hear OCD and hallucinations mentioned in the same sentence, don't think they have anything to do with each other. she is probably saying that in absence of anything better to say. is diagnosed Aspergers?natasa x>> Thanks for this it's really interesting, I will definitely follow it up.> The Psychiatrist says many people with autism develop OCD which is what she > is saying he has and is causing the voices. I am on many lists mostly just > reading and don't know more than a couple or three who are having this, well > they may have obsessions but not many hearing voices or visions.> I actually think it's his memory that causes his LD's, he is switched on in > so many ways, fully verbal, but he cannot remember tiddly squat, it's quite > shocking how bad it is, even simple things are out of his head as quick as > they went in. demonstrates better memory!> Vicky>

[Guest guest]

-This Champix is what is being recommended by New leaf to help give

up smoking.I haven't used it.

Don't know if anyone else has tried nicotine patches but they made

me feel very ill,like I'd overdosed on Nicotine.I find the gum

better.

Sharon.

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , Eva family

wrote:

>

> Galantamine is a nicotine receptor blocker, I think. There is a

nicotine

> receptor blocking drug which gives terrible hallucinations as an

> occasional side effect. I think it is called Chamfix. There was a

long

> article by someone who took it in order to give up smoking --

describing

> his hallucinations and changed emotions. I was told that there are

> nictine receptors throughout the brain with all sorts of different

> functions -- one set must be in charge of interpreting reality.

The

> article (in the Independent) described how this chap became unable

to

> tell shadows from people and objects from their background. It was

truly

> fascinating in an appalling sort of way and as I read it I

wondered if

> some of our children see this sliding, mutagenic reality.

>

> Returning to , try a nicotine patch

>

> xx Sally

>

> natasa778 wrote:

> >

> > just written to you off list but wanted to ask re hallucinations

if

> > also has memory cognitive problems with it?

> >

> > also one good link:

> >

> > http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm

> > <http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm>

> >

> > natasa x

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thanks Sharon, do you get the anti histamine from the Doctor?

> > > Taurine used to do the job for , but not so much anymore.

> > > I really am the worlds worst worrier but it looks like Tics,

is that

> > > possible?

> > > Vicky

> > >

> >

> >

> > -----------------------------------------------------------------

-------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

24/02/2008 12:19

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-This Champix is what is being recommended by New leaf to help give

up smoking.I haven't used it.

Don't know if anyone else has tried nicotine patches but they made

me feel very ill,like I'd overdosed on Nicotine.I find the gum

better.

Sharon.

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , Eva family

wrote:

>

> Galantamine is a nicotine receptor blocker, I think. There is a

nicotine

> receptor blocking drug which gives terrible hallucinations as an

> occasional side effect. I think it is called Chamfix. There was a

long

> article by someone who took it in order to give up smoking --

describing

> his hallucinations and changed emotions. I was told that there are

> nictine receptors throughout the brain with all sorts of different

> functions -- one set must be in charge of interpreting reality.

The

> article (in the Independent) described how this chap became unable

to

> tell shadows from people and objects from their background. It was

truly

> fascinating in an appalling sort of way and as I read it I

wondered if

> some of our children see this sliding, mutagenic reality.

>

> Returning to , try a nicotine patch

>

> xx Sally

>

> natasa778 wrote:

> >

> > just written to you off list but wanted to ask re hallucinations

if

> > also has memory cognitive problems with it?

> >

> > also one good link:

> >

> > http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm

> > <http://www.galantamine.cc/articles/galantamine-articles-15.htm>

> >

> > natasa x

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thanks Sharon, do you get the anti histamine from the Doctor?

> > > Taurine used to do the job for , but not so much anymore.

> > > I really am the worlds worst worrier but it looks like Tics,

is that

> > > possible?

> > > Vicky

> > >

> >

> >

> > -----------------------------------------------------------------

-------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

24/02/2008 12:19

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not scientific at all but everyone I know who is has any kind of mental health problem is a smoker!

I seem to know a fair few people with bipolar and/or Aspergers and they all smoke.

The only exception is one of my brothers and he has very bad asthma so wouldn't dream of smoking.

Lower functioning people would probably not have the opportunity to smoke.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

If they happen to live with family who are against smoking it would be

difficult to get fags...plus would they even be able to afford it

themselves...

Eva family schrieb:

>

> But not a high prevalence oif smokers amongst people with autism --

> indicating that they are different?

> Sally

>

> natasa778 wrote:

> >

> > bullseye! same type of receptors in the brain are linked to memory (or

> > memory problems if dysfunctional) as well as hallucinations - they are

> > called *acetylcholine receptors* (abbreviated *AChR*) . Galantamine

> > is an antagonist and is for that reason indicated for both

> > schizophrenia and Alzheimer's as well as Parkinsons... also

> > interesting that there is high prevalence of smoking in

> > schizophrenics, thought to be self- medicating this way..

> >

> > there are loads of studies and small trials out there (not large scale

> > trials) but overall showing promising results for memory and cognition

> > in those disorders...

> >

> > Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2007 Jun;321(3):1179-82. Epub 2007 Mar 20.

> >

> >

> > e inhibitor galantamine inhibits d-amphetamine-induced

> > psychotic-like behavior in Cebus monkeys.

> >

> > *Andersen MB*

> >

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1>>,

> > ...Research Institute of Biological Psychiatry, Sct. Hans

> > Hospital, Roskilde, Denmark.

> >

> > Cholinergic receptors (AChR) are reported altered in brains from

> > schizophrenic patients, and a growing body of evidence suggests

> > that muscarinic receptor agonists exhibit antipsychotic potential.

> > Centrally acting selective muscarinic receptor agonists are

> > currently not available for clinical use, but acetylcholinesterase

> > (AChE) inhibitors, which indirectly stimulate AChR by blocking the

> > breakdown of acetylcholine by AChE, are widely used in the clinic

> > against Alzheimer's disease. AChE inhibitors have been reported to

> > exhibit antipsychotic efficacy in Alzheimer's disease patients,

> > and these compounds have also been investigated as adjunctive

> > treatment to antipsychotic medication in schizophrenic patients

> > with varying results. However, monotherapy with AChE inhibitors in

> > schizophrenic patients has not been evaluated. We wanted to

> > investigate the antipsychotic potential of the AChE inhibitor

> > galantamine, which also allosterically potentiates nicotinic

> > receptor stimulation. To this end, we investigated its ability to

> > antagonize d-amphetamine-induced psychotic-like behavior in

> > extrapyramidal side effects (EPS)-primed Cebus monkeys.

> > Galantamine inhibited d-amphetamine-induced unrest, arousal, and

> > stereotypy. Side effects such as emesis, sedation, and EPS were

> > minor or not existing.* The results indicate that AChE inhibitors

> > have antipsychotic potentials and suggest that clinical trials

> > investigating antipsychotic effects of AChE inhibitors as

> > monotherapy would be of interest.*

> >

> > PMID: 17374745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > learning at

> > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the

> > next

> > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as

> > part of

> > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

> > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on

> > 's

> > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria

> > for this,

> > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical

> > autism type

> > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions

> > OCD as

> > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes and

> > wanes but

> > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more

> > than

> > > once a day.

> > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't seen

> > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if

> > this is the

> > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually

> > had nothing to

> > > do with these behaviours!

> > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is really

> > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy,

> > but maybe not.

> > > Vicky

> > >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

> 24/02/2008 12:19

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 27/02/2008

08:35

>

[Guest guest]

same would apply to schizophrenics who did smoke

Sally

JULIE GRIFFITHS wrote:

>

> If they happen to live with family who are against smoking it would be

> difficult to get fags...plus would they even be able to afford it

> themselves...

>

> Eva family schrieb:

> >

> > But not a high prevalence oif smokers amongst people with autism --

> > indicating that they are different?

> > Sally

> >

> > natasa778 wrote:

> > >

> > > bullseye! same type of receptors in the brain are linked to memory (or

> > > memory problems if dysfunctional) as well as hallucinations - they are

> > > called *acetylcholine receptors* (abbreviated *AChR*) . Galantamine

> > > is an antagonist and is for that reason indicated for both

> > > schizophrenia and Alzheimer's as well as Parkinsons... also

> > > interesting that there is high prevalence of smoking in

> > > schizophrenics, thought to be self- medicating this way..

> > >

> > > there are loads of studies and small trials out there (not large scale

> > > trials) but overall showing promising results for memory and cognition

> > > in those disorders...

> > >

> > > Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2007 Jun;321(3):1179-82. Epub 2007 Mar 20.

> > >

> > >

> > > e inhibitor galantamine inhibits d-amphetamine-induced

> > > psychotic-like behavior in Cebus monkeys.

> > >

> > > *Andersen MB*

> > >

> >

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1>

>

> >

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Andersen%\

20MB%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubme\

d_RVAbstractPlusDrugs1>>>,

> > > ...Research Institute of Biological Psychiatry, Sct. Hans

> > > Hospital, Roskilde, Denmark.

> > >

> > > Cholinergic receptors (AChR) are reported altered in brains from

> > > schizophrenic patients, and a growing body of evidence suggests

> > > that muscarinic receptor agonists exhibit antipsychotic potential.

> > > Centrally acting selective muscarinic receptor agonists are

> > > currently not available for clinical use, but acetylcholinesterase

> > > (AChE) inhibitors, which indirectly stimulate AChR by blocking the

> > > breakdown of acetylcholine by AChE, are widely used in the clinic

> > > against Alzheimer's disease. AChE inhibitors have been reported to

> > > exhibit antipsychotic efficacy in Alzheimer's disease patients,

> > > and these compounds have also been investigated as adjunctive

> > > treatment to antipsychotic medication in schizophrenic patients

> > > with varying results. However, monotherapy with AChE inhibitors in

> > > schizophrenic patients has not been evaluated. We wanted to

> > > investigate the antipsychotic potential of the AChE inhibitor

> > > galantamine, which also allosterically potentiates nicotinic

> > > receptor stimulation. To this end, we investigated its ability to

> > > antagonize d-amphetamine-induced psychotic-like behavior in

> > > extrapyramidal side effects (EPS)-primed Cebus monkeys.

> > > Galantamine inhibited d-amphetamine-induced unrest, arousal, and

> > > stereotypy. Side effects such as emesis, sedation, and EPS were

> > > minor or not existing.* The results indicate that AChE inhibitors

> > > have antipsychotic potentials and suggest that clinical trials

> > > investigating antipsychotic effects of AChE inhibitors as

> > > monotherapy would be of interest.*

> > >

> > > PMID: 17374745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > > learning at

> > > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through to the

> > > next

> > > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up as

> > > part of

> > > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every difficulty.

> > > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any info on

> > > 's

> > > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx criteria

> > > for this,

> > > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in typical

> > > autism type

> > > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also mentions

> > > OCD as

> > > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes and

> > > wanes but

> > > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but more

> > > than

> > > > once a day.

> > > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I haven't

> seen

> > > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going on, if

> > > this is the

> > > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that actually

> > > had nothing to

> > > > do with these behaviours!

> > > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking is

> really

> > > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a paddy,

> > > but maybe not.

> > > > Vicky

> > > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

> > 24/02/2008 12:19

> > >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date:

> 27/02/2008 08:35

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 26/02/2008

09:08

>

[Guest guest]

hmmmm, yes but not really! Most of the schizophrenics would have started

off as independent adults or adolescents with some form of independence

or at least access to cigarettes before the onset of symptoms. And for

most of them the onset would have been gradual, still allowing them some

sort of decision-making in their lives...

Whereas I can imagine only high functioning asd/asperger's adolescent or

adult being 'logistically able' to take up smoking. But maybe I'm wrong.

Natasa

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > > > learning at

> > > > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through

to the

> > > > next

> > > > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up

as

> > > > part of

> > > > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every

difficulty.

> > > > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any

info on

> > > > 's

> > > > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx

criteria

> > > > for this,

> > > > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in

typical

> > > > autism type

> > > > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also

mentions

> > > > OCD as

> > > > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes

and

> > > > wanes but

> > > > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but

more

> > > > than

> > > > > once a day.

> > > > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I

haven't

> > seen

> > > > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going

on, if

> > > > this is the

> > > > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that

actually

> > > > had nothing to

> > > > > do with these behaviours!

> > > > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking

is

> > really

> > > > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a

paddy,

> > > > but maybe not.

> > > > > Vicky

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

> > > 24/02/2008 12:19

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date:

> > 27/02/2008 08:35

> > >

> >

> >

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:

26/02/2008 09:08

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I was thinking that along the same lines.

natasa778 schrieb:

>

> hmmmm, yes but not really! Most of the schizophrenics would have started

> off as independent adults or adolescents with some form of independence

> or at least access to cigarettes before the onset of symptoms. And for

> most of them the onset would have been gradual, still allowing them some

> sort of decision-making in their lives...

>

> Whereas I can imagine only high functioning asd/asperger' s adolescent or

> adult being 'logistically able' to take up smoking. But maybe I'm wrong.

>

> Natasa

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > > > > learning at

> > > > > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through

> to the

> > > > > next

> > > > > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > > > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up

> as

> > > > > part of

> > > > > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every

> difficulty.

> > > > > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any

> info on

> > > > > 's

> > > > > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx

> criteria

> > > > > for this,

> > > > > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in

> typical

> > > > > autism type

> > > > > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also

> mentions

> > > > > OCD as

> > > > > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes

> and

> > > > > wanes but

> > > > > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but

> more

> > > > > than

> > > > > > once a day.

> > > > > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I

> haven't

> > > seen

> > > > > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going

> on, if

> > > > > this is the

> > > > > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that

> actually

> > > > > had nothing to

> > > > > > do with these behaviours!

> > > > > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking

> is

> > > really

> > > > > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a

> paddy,

> > > > > but maybe not.

> > > > > > Vicky

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > >

> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

> > > > 24/02/2008 12:19

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > >

> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date:

> > > 27/02/2008 08:35

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:

> 26/02/2008 09:08

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 27/02/2008

16:34

>

[Guest guest]

needs more research

xx Sally

natasa778 wrote:

>

> hmmmm, yes but not really! Most of the schizophrenics would have started

> off as independent adults or adolescents with some form of independence

> or at least access to cigarettes before the onset of symptoms. And for

> most of them the onset would have been gradual, still allowing them some

> sort of decision-making in their lives...

>

> Whereas I can imagine only high functioning asd/asperger's adolescent or

> adult being 'logistically able' to take up smoking. But maybe I'm wrong.

>

> Natasa

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh Lord, he has a dreadful memory, absolutley shocking, makes

> > > > > learning at

> > > > > > school really hard for him because he can never carry through

> to the

> > > > > next

> > > > > > lesson, everything previously learnt has been forgotton.

> > > > > > I do wonder how many of our kids difficulties we just mark up

> as

> > > > > part of

> > > > > > autism or how autism has become a catch all for every

> difficulty.

> > > > > > Been looking up tourettes on the net to see if there is any

> info on

> > > > > 's

> > > > > > jerking and he would seriously fit in quite well to the dx

> criteria

> > > > > for this,

> > > > > > he even does the grunting and snorting, not rhythmic as in

> typical

> > > > > autism type

> > > > > > stims, gross motor problem, involuntary etc, and it also

> mentions

> > > > > OCD as

> > > > > > being part of this condition in some cses. Apparently it waxes

> and

> > > > > wanes but

> > > > > > never longer than 3 months and is not necessarily constant but

> more

> > > > > than

> > > > > > once a day.

> > > > > > He is in a school that is almost entirely autistic and I

> haven't

> > > seen

> > > > > > another child with all these involuntary big movements going

> on, if

> > > > > this is the

> > > > > > case then I could have been questioning supplements that

> actually

> > > > > had nothing to

> > > > > > do with these behaviours!

> > > > > > Not uncommon for SIB and eye poking either, his head jerking

> is

> > > really

> > > > > > extreme, Iv'e always taken it for him thinking about having a

> paddy,

> > > > > but maybe not.

> > > > > > Vicky

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date:

> > > > 24/02/2008 12:19

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date:

> > > 27/02/2008 08:35

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:

> 26/02/2008 09:08

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 26/02/2008

09:08

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly, one cannot imagine a 'typical' ASD adolescent - moderately

affected even - getting pocket money and going to the off-licence to

buy fags.

What would be really interesting is reasearch looking at prevalence of

smoking in high functioning adult ASD population - those who are able

live at least semi-independent lives. Only then we could get a clearer

picture...

natasa

>

> Not scientific at all but everyone I know who is has any kind of

mental

> health problem is a smoker!

> I seem to know a fair few people with bipolar and/or Aspergers and

they

> all smoke.

> The only exception is one of my brothers and he has very bad asthma so

> wouldn't dream of smoking.

> Lower functioning people would probably not have the opportunity to

smoke.

> Vicky

>