RE: Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft questions

[Guest guest]

same boat here, havent a clue, maybe someone can illuminate.

i have just read again, bruce semon's book which says that probiotics

can actually contribute to yeast, that they defo should not be given

every day.

hard to know what to do/believe.

>

> We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> Genova. Bit confusing.

>

> In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

> the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which

is

> also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> least. ??

>

> E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

> can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

with

> me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> under beneficial.

>

> Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

> these. But at least some have set up home.

>

> What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

>

> Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

>

> Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

>

> enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

baddie)

> potential pathogen

>

> Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

>

> apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

> things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

place?

>

> we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

> fragilis

>

> Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

(away

> from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

>

> Anyone else have this? what did they do??

>

> Steph x

>

[Guest guest]

Steph,

I don't have time to go through ds's tests right at the moment

(meaning not until the weekend, if then) but from memory this is how

we rid ourselves of the bad bacteria and reached good levels of the

good stuff, per testing. Keep in mind I don't know which bad

bacteria these were.

Tons of culturelle, a form of lactobacillus which is supposed to

colonize better than most and fight the bad bacteria at the same

time. We used 8 to 10 capsules a day for at least 4 months, probably

longer. We now use a maintenance dose of 2 to 4 a day. I also used

very high doses of other probiotics, going through a two or so month

phase of more than a trillion CFUs a day (a bunch of differnt kinds--

VSL3, Threelac, Primal Defense and the others that I've mentioned).

Maintenance dose of about 4 CP1/SuperProBio a day with the culturelle

and cultured foods.

Balancing pH, although this stuff still confuses me entirely. We

used Liver Life which actually balanced pH, per urine and saliva

tests anyway, within a very short time. Whether this means pH is

balanced in the gut I couldn't say for sure, but I think it does.

Olive leaf extract used during the viral protocol seemed to have had

a good impact. I also used oil of oregano. I have an impression

that things like OLE have a pretty good track record against all

sorts of bacteria, as they would need to fight all sorts when they

were actually trees, and not in capsules. I might be inclined to try

fairly high, long-term doses of these before something like

tetracycline. Keep in mind that OLE will kill the good bacteria in

soil-based probiotics like Primal Defense.

I plan on going through all of our test results thoroughly very soon

(inspired by the conference) and if I find anything more specific

that I think may be of some use, I'll post it.

Anita

>

> We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> Genova. Bit confusing.

>

> In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

> the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which

is

> also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> least. ??

>

> E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

> can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

with

> me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> under beneficial.

>

> Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

> these. But at least some have set up home.

>

> What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

>

> Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

>

> Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

>

> enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

baddie)

> potential pathogen

>

> Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

>

> apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

> things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

place?

>

> we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

> fragilis

>

> Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

(away

> from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

>

> Anyone else have this? what did they do??

>

> Steph x

>

[Guest guest]

Not

a clue Steph but my Tom doing amazingly amazingly well on VSL3 even though he was previously on CP1

and others. This is the biggest leap we’ve ever had.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Autism-Biomedical-Europe

[mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of stephaniesirr

Sent: 10 March

2008 13:26

To:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

Subject:

Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft

questions

We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

Genova. Bit confusing.

In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which is

also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

least. ??

E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear with

me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

under beneficial.

Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

these. But at least some have set up home.

What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a baddie)

potential pathogen

Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first place?

we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

fragilis

Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii (away

from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

Anyone else have this? what did they do??

Steph x

[Guest guest]

I just realized Steph that I forgot to mention that we've used kefir

and kombucha also, and although I can't prove it, I think that the

bacteria in them seem to stick better than most stuff we have in

capsules. Both contain types of lactobacillus. If Tom can't have

dairy, it's easy to make coconut water kefir too.

Anita

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " Anita "

wrote:

>

> Steph,

>

> I don't have time to go through ds's tests right at the moment

> (meaning not until the weekend, if then) but from memory this is

how

> we rid ourselves of the bad bacteria and reached good levels of the

> good stuff, per testing. Keep in mind I don't know which bad

> bacteria these were.

>

> Tons of culturelle, a form of lactobacillus which is supposed to

> colonize better than most and fight the bad bacteria at the same

> time. We used 8 to 10 capsules a day for at least 4 months,

probably

> longer. We now use a maintenance dose of 2 to 4 a day. I also

used

> very high doses of other probiotics, going through a two or so

month

> phase of more than a trillion CFUs a day (a bunch of differnt kinds-

-

> VSL3, Threelac, Primal Defense and the others that I've

mentioned).

> Maintenance dose of about 4 CP1/SuperProBio a day with the

culturelle

> and cultured foods.

>

> Balancing pH, although this stuff still confuses me entirely. We

> used Liver Life which actually balanced pH, per urine and saliva

> tests anyway, within a very short time. Whether this means pH is

> balanced in the gut I couldn't say for sure, but I think it does.

>

> Olive leaf extract used during the viral protocol seemed to have

had

> a good impact. I also used oil of oregano. I have an impression

> that things like OLE have a pretty good track record against all

> sorts of bacteria, as they would need to fight all sorts when they

> were actually trees, and not in capsules. I might be inclined to

try

> fairly high, long-term doses of these before something like

> tetracycline. Keep in mind that OLE will kill the good bacteria in

> soil-based probiotics like Primal Defense.

>

> I plan on going through all of our test results thoroughly very

soon

> (inspired by the conference) and if I find anything more specific

> that I think may be of some use, I'll post it.

>

> Anita

>

>

>

>

> >

> > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> > Genova. Bit confusing.

> >

> > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion

of

> > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

which

> is

> > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > least. ??

> >

> > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something

you

> > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

> with

> > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> > under beneficial.

> >

> > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full

of

> > these. But at least some have set up home.

> >

> > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> >

> > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> >

> > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> >

> > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> baddie)

> > potential pathogen

> >

> > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> >

> > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't

it

> > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> place?

> >

> > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

dientamoeba

> > fragilis

> >

> > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

> (away

> > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> >

> > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> >

> > Steph x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's interesting, maybe we should go that route. I found his old

comprehensive stool last night (the test, not the actual stool.

ALthough his habits can be pretty vile so you never know what you'll

find in this house). The test from 2005 showed zero lacto bacillus.

3 years and about £300 worth of lactobacillus later, it's still

showing zero. SO - I think there's a message in there.

I'll have to scroll back looking for kefir. I dont really know what it

is - can you make it in a yoghurt maker? Is it yummy or yukky?

Lovely to meet you in Guildford!! Sooo nice putting faces to names!

Steph xx

> > >

> > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > >

> > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion

> of

> > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> which

> > is

> > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > > least. ??

> > >

> > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something

> you

> > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

> > with

> > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> > > under beneficial.

> > >

> > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full

> of

> > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > >

> > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > >

> > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > >

> > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > >

> > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > baddie)

> > > potential pathogen

> > >

> > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > >

> > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't

> it

> > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> > place?

> > >

> > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> dientamoeba

> > > fragilis

> > >

> > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

> > (away

> > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > >

> > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > >

> > > Steph x

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph

I had the same problem with giving lots of probiotics but not getting

any beneficial bacteria. I was about to start the biofilm protocol

but have delayed it because I saw dr Fell and did a colon transit

test. Speaking to dr soon.

I think the idea is that the environment (gut) is so bad the

probiotics and possibily antibiotics or not working/ getting through.

Not at all technical and could be wrong but the biofilm protocol is

meant to break through a layer of mucus that is stopping stuff

getting in.

Peta

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " stephaniesirr "

wrote:

>

> We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> Genova. Bit confusing.

>

> In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

> the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which

is

> also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> least. ??

>

> E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

> can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

with

> me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> under beneficial.

>

> Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

> these. But at least some have set up home.

>

> What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

>

> Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

>

> Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

>

> enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

baddie)

> potential pathogen

>

> Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

>

> apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

> things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

place?

>

> we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

> fragilis

>

> Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

(away

> from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

>

> Anyone else have this? what did they do??

>

> Steph x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peta

I dont' really understand biofilm. For example, when Tom was scoped

he was squeaky clean inside (for as long as it took to scope him). We

bombarded his system with probiotics immediately afterward, thinking

we'd colonise it whilst it was clear. Does that mean that even when

it's clear enough to scope and get biopsies from there's still a layer

of yuk between child and digestion? We have a phone consult on

Thursday with ICDRC, be interested to hear what they say. Biofilm

sounds like something from Dr Who - and tales of people " seeing the

biofilm like gel in a nappy " . But then I ahve to say the last thing

Tom passed before his actual scope (after five days pre scope diet,

movicol, oxypowder, 2 enemas, two massive doses of senna, dynorod,

etc) looked like something from Dr Who. a gelatinous rice cake - and

he hadn't been allowed rice cakes for several months beforehand. What

is the biofilm protocol? Tom is on so many things I worry about not

knowing what's going to work or being able to tell when it does. We're

on vancomycin at present.

God, so confuuuuusing

Steph xx

> >

> > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back from

> > Genova. Bit confusing.

> >

> > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

> > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which

> is

> > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > least. ??

> >

> > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

> > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear

> with

> > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

> > under beneficial.

> >

> > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

> > these. But at least some have set up home.

> >

> > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> >

> > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> >

> > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> >

> > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> baddie)

> > potential pathogen

> >

> > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> >

> > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

> > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> place?

> >

> > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

> > fragilis

> >

> > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii

> (away

> > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> >

> > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> >

> > Steph x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yikes. That's a lot of lactobacillus not going anywhere productive.

Kefir is yucky, at least to me. But there are kids who will chug it

by the cupful and plenty of other people who like it. It is easy to

hide, that's what I do. I think just a couple tbsps a day offers

plenty of benefit, although in Tom's situation you may want to try to

get more in him. If you want to make the milk kefir I'd be happy to

send you some grains. I just make mine in a canning jar sitting on

top of the counter above the boiler as I don't make huge amounts at

once, but a yogurt maker would work well. It's dirt cheap to make

and easy. If you took your 300 pounds and spent it on making kefir

you'd have enough money left over for probably 25 or so decent

bottles of wine :-)

Kombucha tastes great and again you don't need much. I can also send

you the scoby for that if you're interested.

It was absolutely wonderful meeting you and your husband. That alone

was worth my white knuckle drive :-)

Anita

PS: it only took me one try to drive away from the hotel! Aren't I

clever?

In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " stephaniesirr "

wrote:

>

> That's interesting, maybe we should go that route. I found his old

> comprehensive stool last night (the test, not the actual stool.

> ALthough his habits can be pretty vile so you never know what you'll

> find in this house). The test from 2005 showed zero lacto

bacillus.

> 3 years and about £300 worth of lactobacillus later, it's still

> showing zero. SO - I think there's a message in there.

>

> I'll have to scroll back looking for kefir. I dont really know what

it

> is - can you make it in a yoghurt maker? Is it yummy or yukky?

>

> Lovely to meet you in Guildford!! Sooo nice putting faces to names!

>

>

> Steph xx

>

> > > >

> > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

from

> > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > >

> > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

billion

> > of

> > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> > which

> > > is

> > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day

at

> > > > least. ??

> > > >

> > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

something

> > you

> > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

(bear

> > > with

> > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

showing

> > > > under beneficial.

> > > >

> > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

full

> > of

> > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > >

> > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > >

> > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one

that

> > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > >

> > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > >

> > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > > baddie)

> > > > potential pathogen

> > > >

> > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > >

> > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

Wasn't

> > it

> > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the

first

> > > place?

> > > >

> > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> > dientamoeba

> > > > fragilis

> > > >

> > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

boulardii

> > > (away

> > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > > >

> > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > >

> > > > Steph x

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph

I have a short consult tonight so will ask about scoping. We have one

on 10th April. Maybe the biofilm was instead of the scope - I don't

know. What you say makes sense about being cleared out. I haven't had

a consult for a while and I always have so much to ask sometimes (

well quite alot these days)I miss things.

Peta-

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " stephaniesirr "

wrote:

>

> Hi Peta

>

> I dont' really understand biofilm. For example, when Tom was scoped

> he was squeaky clean inside (for as long as it took to scope him).

We

> bombarded his system with probiotics immediately afterward,

thinking

> we'd colonise it whilst it was clear. Does that mean that even when

> it's clear enough to scope and get biopsies from there's still a

layer

> of yuk between child and digestion? We have a phone consult on

> Thursday with ICDRC, be interested to hear what they say. Biofilm

> sounds like something from Dr Who - and tales of people " seeing the

> biofilm like gel in a nappy " . But then I ahve to say the last thing

> Tom passed before his actual scope (after five days pre scope diet,

> movicol, oxypowder, 2 enemas, two massive doses of senna, dynorod,

> etc) looked like something from Dr Who. a gelatinous rice cake -

and

> he hadn't been allowed rice cakes for several months beforehand.

What

> is the biofilm protocol? Tom is on so many things I worry about not

> knowing what's going to work or being able to tell when it does.

We're

> on vancomycin at present.

>

> God, so confuuuuusing

>

> Steph xx

>

> > >

> > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

from

> > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > >

> > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

billion of

> > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

which

> > is

> > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > > least. ??

> > >

> > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

something you

> > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

(bear

> > with

> > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

showing

> > > under beneficial.

> > >

> > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

full of

> > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > >

> > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > >

> > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > >

> > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > >

> > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > baddie)

> > > potential pathogen

> > >

> > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > >

> > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

Wasn't it

> > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> > place?

> > >

> > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

dientamoeba

> > > fragilis

> > >

> > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

boulardii

> > (away

> > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > >

> > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > >

> > > Steph x

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How about kefir popsicles?

Weirdly enough, I have read of quite a few parents successfully getting

EFAs into their kids via this method. Fishy popsicles, but the kids

didnt seem to be averse to this dietary style!

Anita schrieb:

>

> Yikes. That's a lot of lactobacillus not going anywhere productive.

>

> Kefir is yucky, at least to me. But there are kids who will chug it

> by the cupful and plenty of other people who like it. It is easy to

> hide, that's what I do. I think just a couple tbsps a day offers

> plenty of benefit, although in Tom's situation you may want to try to

> get more in him. If you want to make the milk kefir I'd be happy to

> send you some grains. I just make mine in a canning jar sitting on

> top of the counter above the boiler as I don't make huge amounts at

> once, but a yogurt maker would work well. It's dirt cheap to make

> and easy. If you took your 300 pounds and spent it on making kefir

> you'd have enough money left over for probably 25 or so decent

> bottles of wine :-)

>

> Kombucha tastes great and again you don't need much. I can also send

> you the scoby for that if you're interested.

>

> It was absolutely wonderful meeting you and your husband. That alone

> was worth my white knuckle drive :-)

>

> Anita

>

> PS: it only took me one try to drive away from the hotel! Aren't I

> clever?

>

> In Autism-Biomedical-Europe

> <mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe%40yahoogroups.com>, " stephaniesirr "

> wrote:

> >

> > That's interesting, maybe we should go that route. I found his old

> > comprehensive stool last night (the test, not the actual stool.

> > ALthough his habits can be pretty vile so you never know what you'll

> > find in this house). The test from 2005 showed zero lacto

> bacillus.

> > 3 years and about £300 worth of lactobacillus later, it's still

> > showing zero. SO - I think there's a message in there.

> >

> > I'll have to scroll back looking for kefir. I dont really know what

> it

> > is - can you make it in a yoghurt maker? Is it yummy or yukky?

> >

> > Lovely to meet you in Guildford!! Sooo nice putting faces to names!

> >

> >

> > Steph xx

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

> from

> > > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > > >

> > > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

> billion

> > > of

> > > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> > > which

> > > > is

> > > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day

> at

> > > > > least. ??

> > > > >

> > > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

> something

> > > you

> > > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

> (bear

> > > > with

> > > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

> showing

> > > > > under beneficial.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

> full

> > > of

> > > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > > >

> > > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > > >

> > > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one

> that

> > > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > > >

> > > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > > > baddie)

> > > > > potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

> Wasn't

> > > it

> > > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the

> first

> > > > place?

> > > > >

> > > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> > > dientamoeba

> > > > > fragilis

> > > > >

> > > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

> boulardii

> > > > (away

> > > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > > >

> > > > > Steph x

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1324 - Release Date: 10/03/2008

19:27

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph,

We treated C.Freudi with Oreganol oregano oil (VERY effective stuff -

but start low and slow)

Just a thought - but are you giving a dose of probiotics at night - I

think this gives lots of time to work. We give about 6 custom per day

with other good bacteria (but Anita already posted a great reply).

Best wishes,

Sandy

[Guest guest]

I'd forgotten about that white knuckle drive. I hope your sat nav has

recovered from hitting itself repeatedly on its own forehead! Very

funny. Not least - sod this, we're not going round again we are going

to REVERSE down a busy, unfamiliar road, in the dark, on a Saturday

night. Desperate times.

Hmm that would be really helpful to get those. HOw do I get my hands

on them? Are they postable? I am mentally drinking all the wine I

will be saving.

> > > > >

> > > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

> from

> > > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > > >

> > > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

> billion

> > > of

> > > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> > > which

> > > > is

> > > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day

> at

> > > > > least. ??

> > > > >

> > > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

> something

> > > you

> > > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

> (bear

> > > > with

> > > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

> showing

> > > > > under beneficial.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

> full

> > > of

> > > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > > >

> > > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > > >

> > > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one

> that

> > > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > > >

> > > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > > > baddie)

> > > > > potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

> Wasn't

> > > it

> > > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the

> first

> > > > place?

> > > > >

> > > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> > > dientamoeba

> > > > > fragilis

> > > > >

> > > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

> boulardii

> > > > (away

> > > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > > >

> > > > > Steph x

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You and me both. My brain has deteriorated. I think it's me who needs

the supplements.

> > > >

> > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

> from

> > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > >

> > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

> billion of

> > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> which

> > > is

> > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > > > least. ??

> > > >

> > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

> something you

> > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

> (bear

> > > with

> > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

> showing

> > > > under beneficial.

> > > >

> > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

> full of

> > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > >

> > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > >

> > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > >

> > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > >

> > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > > baddie)

> > > > potential pathogen

> > > >

> > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > >

> > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

> Wasn't it

> > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> > > place?

> > > >

> > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> dientamoeba

> > > > fragilis

> > > >

> > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

> boulardii

> > > (away

> > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > > >

> > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > >

> > > > Steph x

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes he has probiotics last thing. Do you think Oxypowder interferes

with them? THey are spaced but only by about 40 minutes.

>

> Hi Steph,

>

> We treated C.Freudi with Oreganol oregano oil (VERY effective stuff -

> but start low and slow)

> Just a thought - but are you giving a dose of probiotics at night - I

> think this gives lots of time to work. We give about 6 custom per day

> with other good bacteria (but Anita already posted a great reply).

>

> Best wishes,

> Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

You and all of us moms. I hear this so often on the boards. We need to

figure out what is going on with us too.

Just ordered some choline to see if that will help.

stephaniesirr schrieb:

>

> You and me both. My brain has deteriorated. I think it's me who needs

> the supplements.

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back

> > from

> > > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > > >

> > > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

> > > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

> > billion of

> > > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

> > > > > least. ??

> > > > >

> > > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

> > something you

> > > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles

> > (bear

> > > > with

> > > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

> > showing

> > > > > under beneficial.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are

> > full of

> > > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > > >

> > > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

> > > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > > >

> > > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

> > > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > > >

> > > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a

> > > > baddie)

> > > > > potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > > >

> > > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

> > Wasn't it

> > > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first

> > > > place?

> > > > >

> > > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> > dientamoeba

> > > > > fragilis

> > > > >

> > > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

> > boulardii

> > > > (away

> > > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > > >

> > > > > Steph x

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1324 - Release Date: 10/03/2008

19:27

>

[Guest guest]

They certainly are postable. If you want some right away just give

me a couple weeks to grow you some new, fresh ones and then I'll send

them together, along with instructions. Send me your address offlist

and soon perhaps you'll be able to drink that wine in a more

satisfactory way :-)

Anita

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis

back

> > from

> > > > > > Genova. Bit confusing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero

for

> > > > > > lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50

> > billion

> > > > of

> > > > > > the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal

Defense

> > > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a

day

> > at

> > > > > > least. ??

> > > > > >

> > > > > > E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not

> > something

> > > > you

> > > > > > can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my

bottles

> > (bear

> > > > > with

> > > > > > me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's

> > showing

> > > > > > under beneficial.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense

are

> > full

> > > > of

> > > > > > these. But at least some have set up home.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to

lactobacillus in

> > > > > > particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including

one

> > that

> > > > > > sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

> > > > > >

> > > > > > enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds

like a

> > > > > baddie)

> > > > > > potential pathogen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline.

> > Wasn't

> > > > it

> > > > > > things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the

> > first

> > > > > place?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few

> > > > dientamoeba

> > > > > > fragilis

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc

> > boulardii

> > > > > (away

> > > > > > from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from

vancomycin).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyone else have this? what did they do??

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Steph x

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Where do you get this from and is it gfcf??

RE: Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft questions

Not a clue Steph but my Tom doing amazingly amazingly well on VSL3 even though he was previously on CP1 and others. This is the biggest leap we’ve ever had.

-----Original Message-----From: Autism-Biomedical-Europe [mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of stephaniesirrSent: 10 March 2008 13:26To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Subject: Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft questions

We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis back fromGenova. Bit confusing.In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero forlactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion ofthe buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which isalso teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day atleast. ??E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something youcan supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear withme here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showingunder beneficial. Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full ofthese. But at least some have set up home. What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus inparticular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? GrrrThen he has some new thugs that have moved in including one thatsounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a baddie)potential pathogenEnterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogenapparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't itthings like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first place?we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoebafragilisTom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii (awayfrom diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).Anyone else have this? what did they do??Steph x

[Guest guest]

I always put ice cubes in ds drink that contains his CLO, similar sort

of thing to popsicles, i think lowering the temperature dampens down

the fishy taste/smell. Well it seems to work here anyways:+))

Nikki x

>

> How about kefir popsicles?

> Weirdly enough, I have read of quite a few parents successfully

getting

> EFAs into their kids via this method. Fishy popsicles, but the kids

> didnt seem to be averse to this dietary style!

>

[Guest guest]

I

get it from Dennis the Chemist (just google). It comes

in sachets and capsules. The sachets are not gf/ cf but the capsules are. Sara x

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

[mailto:Autism-Biomedical-Europe ] On Behalf Of Jane Hogan

Sent: 11 March 2008 17:40

To:

Autism-Biomedical-Europe

Subject: Re:

Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft

questions

Where do you get this from and is it

gfcf??

Bacteria/yeast query liberally sprinkled with daft questions

We've just had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool

Analysis back from

Genova. Bit confusing.

In terms of benefical flora he's showing a big fat zero for

lactobacillus. Bizarre - I've been chucking CP1 with 50 billion of

the buggers down Tom for months, rotating with Primal Defense which is

also teeming with them. No Growth Detected. He has two a day at

least. ??

E coli is 4+ (which is good) but presumalby that's not something you

can supplement as it's not on the back of any of my bottles (bear with

me here). And I thought E coli was an evil thing but it's showing

under beneficial.

Bifidobacterium is at 2+ - again, CP1 and primal defense are full of

these. But at least some have set up home.

What can I do to make Tom's gut hospitable to lactobacillus in

particular? Mood lighting? Scatter cushions? Grrr

Then he has some new thugs that have moved in including one that

sounds like something you'd order in Starbucks.

Citrobacter freundi, 4+, potential pathogen. Who he??

enterobacter cloacae 4+ (at least he definitely sounds like a baddie)

potential pathogen

Enterobacter asburiae 4 + potential pathogen

apparently all of these are susceptible to Tetracycline. Wasn't it

things like tetracycline that got us in this mess in the first place?

we also have many blasto cystis hominis again and a few dientamoeba

fragilis

Tom currently takes diflucan and vancomycin, plus sacc boulardii (away

from diflucan) and CP1/Primal defense (away from vancomycin).

Anyone else have this? what did they do??

Steph x

[Guest guest]

Hi Caroline,

We have used up to a trillion CFU's a day for long stretches. Now we

use more like 400 billion a day. Plus the kefir and kombucha when I

have it ready. Lately I've not been very good about that. DS is

yeasty too, partly a result of this, but also a result of going with

the homeopathic yeast remedies which don't work quickly (if at all my

cynical self adds).

Anyway, we have gone through many kinds of probiotics. Not rotating, I

so much but just using up what I have and then moving on. I always use

at least two kinds at once. So, we've used Culturelle, Primal Defense,

CP1, Custom Probiotics Lactate free (is that the right name?),

ThreeLac, FiveLac, SuperProBio, VSL3, and I think a couple others I

can't remember right now. We've never seen any wows from any of these,

but I know we need them.

I really do think though that the cultured foods are the best in that

they contain so many strains of bacteria and beneficial yeast that you

wouldn't have to rotate. Or mortgage your house.

Yes, threelac does have the prebiotics. I'm not sure how I feel about

these. Can you tell me why you're not in favour?

Anita

>

> HI ANITA

>

> WAS INTRIGUED BY YOUR POST AND WANTED TO ASK HOW MUCH PROBIOS DO YOU

USE PER

> DAY AND DO YOU ROTATE? I THINK ITS ONE THING THAT PARENTS DO NOT

USUALLY DO

> AGGRESSIVELY ENOUGH EG USE TONNES OF PROBIOTICS. WE NOW USE 4 VSL3

IN THE

> EVENING AND 4 CP1 IN THE MORNINGS. I HAVE HOWEVER BEEN ON THESE A

WHILE FOR

> BECKS AND HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THREELAC ALTHO I AM NOT IN FAVOUR

OF

> PREBIOTICS, IS THAT IN THERE ALREADY?

>

> LUV CAROLINE

> XXX

>