Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 >My sister and I have suffered with severe summer allergy problems for over 60 years no one else in the family did. We were also the only family members that had our tonsils and adnoids removed. It seems to me that there is a connection to what the good doctors did to us with their knives and our lifetime of suffering. However since consuming raw dairy and the other real foods my allergies have improved by 30%. I kinda wish I still had my tonsils and adnoids and if I had horns think I would keep them too. Don > > so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact > that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. > > Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning > my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious > reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' > > Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix- es > on people, with no real reason other than that they were " superfluous " . > Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons > don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore > > My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently > understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical > sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Only of you allow them to grow long enough. That's why you disbud while they are still little instead of dehorning. - In RawDairy , " Gordon S. " wrote: > > > so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact > that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. > > Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning > my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious > reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' > > Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es > on people, with no real reason other than that they were " superfluous " . > Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons > don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore > > My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently > understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical > sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Gordon, You are correct about the horns and sinus cavities. Years ago my wife collected some exotic animals, one of which was a water buffalo. He was probably in his teens when we got him and he lived another 15 years with us. About 4 years before his passing, he lost one of his massive horns and in cold weather you could see his breath come out of a hole in his head about the size of a quarter where his horn once was. As far as Biblical guidelines go, don't leave out the instructions about circumcism. I often hear people tell me that man is the only animal which consumes milk from another species (which, by the way is not true) and that man is the only animal which drinks milk after maturity. To that I tell them that in a perfect world of balanced nutrition that milk may not be necessary for an adult, but in the imperfect world we live in, milk seems to be a practical way for most adults to get a lot of nutrition which is otherwise more difficult or more expensive to obtain. In my opinion, the issue of horns vs no horns is about the same. In a perfect world maybe we should leave the horns on if they start out with horns but unless someone can offer some hard evidence...anecdotal or otherwise, I feel this is a relatively insignificant issue compared to nutrition, breeding age, outcrossing vs line breeding, and other such issues which seem to overshadow whether an animal has been dehorned or not. I am still hoping someone can offer some solid insight on this issue. Cleve rate that rack! so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were "superfluous". Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Horns do dissipate heat in hot summer weather. The flip side of that in a four-season climate, is that they also lose heat in cold weather..so six of one, half dozen of the other. My Dexters are dehorned and they do just fine year round in the extremes we have in Eastern Canada..marion To: RawDairy From: machines@...Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:48:28 -0500Subject: Re: rate that rack! Gordon, You are correct about the horns and sinus cavities. Years ago my wife collected some exotic animals, one of which was a water buffalo. He was probably in his teens when we got him and he lived another 15 years with us. About 4 years before his passing, he lost one of his massive horns and in cold weather you could see his breath come out of a hole in his head about the size of a quarter where his horn once was. As far as Biblical guidelines go, don't leave out the instructions about circumcism. I often hear people tell me that man is the only animal which consumes milk from another species (which, by the way is not true) and that man is the only animal which drinks milk after maturity. To that I tell them that in a perfect world of balanced nutrition that milk may not be necessary for an adult, but in the imperfect world we live in, milk seems to be a practical way for most adults to get a lot of nutrition which is otherwise more difficult or more expensive to obtain. In my opinion, the issue of horns vs no horns is about the same. In a perfect world maybe we should leave the horns on if they start out with horns but unless someone can offer some hard evidence...anecdotal or otherwise, I feel this is a relatively insignificant issue compared to nutrition, breeding age, outcrossing vs line breeding, and other such issues which seem to overshadow whether an animal has been dehorned or not. I am still hoping someone can offer some solid insight on this issue. Cleve rate that rack! so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were "superfluous". Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Hey , One of my relatives won't drink milk and won't give her kids milk and she sites that we are the only animal that drinks other's milk and that we are the only animal that drinks milk in adulthood. Can you tell me what other animals do? And is this a religious issue? She is pretty religious so I thought it might have some religious roots. Thanks for clearing up the mystery for me! I LOVE milk and can't imagine not having it in some form! Jen rate that rack! so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were "superfluous" . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 http://www.anthromedia.net/uploads/media/Baars_-_Harvests_58-3_03.pdf. Jenifer Wohlers research (see below) shows that having horns on cows influenced milk quality. The milk from horned cows appeared to be more benefi- cial to human health than that from dehorned stock Milk samples were gathered over an extended pe- riod from the long-standing, partially de-horned Friesian herd on the university research farm enhausen (certified Bioland and Naturland). Bulk milk samples from 25-28 horned and 21-37 de-horned cows were analysed. Age, stage of lactation, milking performance and milk con- stituents of both groups were similar Visual image evaluation A series of twelve pictures per sample was visually evalu- ated. The most readily observable differences are the size of the cavities. The H-milk shows consistently larger cavity forms and more ‘felty’ crystal structures than the Deh-milk. The spiking, branch forms of the H-milk are more rounded and bow-like while those of the Deh-milk lead straight to the periphery or even form snaking lines and appear to run in a less ‘guided’ way. The width of the rim is another ob- servable criterion. The H-milk has a wider rim than the Deh-milk. Overall the H-milk pictures appear more differenti- ated, more harmonious, more evenly formed and more sub- tle than do the pictures from the Deh-milk, some of which give a much coarser and heavier impression. A copper-chloride dilution series using different sample strengths assessed the differences in vitality. At a rate of 350 ml milk to 100 mg CuCl 2 the milk dominates and very subtle crystal structures are formed. The Deh-milk was able to develop a more formative picture at this con- centration. This indicates that the Deh-milk has stronger vi- tality forces than the H-milk but less ordering capacity. (1) Computerized picture assessment A computerized assessment of the pictures led to the same conclusion. After scanning the crystal pictures according to their shades of grey in defined areas, significant differences in milk quality could be established. Summary of the copper-chloride crystallisation Comparison of this work with that of Balzer-Graf and Gallmann (2000) and Johannson-Pieschl (1996) shows that forms obtained from the H-milk series are of close similar- ity to those produced by raw-milk images. With its rela- tively wide spike features the Deh-milk seems at first sight to be more vital. However these features are also character- istic of aged milk which is why Deh-milk can itself be de- scribed as aged or older. The ageing series also indicates that Deh-milk declines in quality at a faster rate than H- milk. The results suggest there are differences in milk quality between horned and dehorned cows, though “quality†needs further clarification. Further studies are needed to establish if it is possible to measure these differ- ences on a molecular level.¶ Subject: Re: rate that rack! To: RawDairy Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:48 AM Gordon, You are correct about the horns and sinus cavities. Years ago my wife collected some exotic animals, one of which was a water buffalo. He was probably in his teens when we got him and he lived another 15 years with us. About 4 years before his passing, he lost one of his massive horns and in cold weather you could see his breath come out of a hole in his head about the size of a quarter where his horn once was. As far as Biblical guidelines go, don't leave out the instructions about circumcism. I often hear people tell me that man is the only animal which consumes milk from another species (which, by the way is not true) and that man is the only animal which drinks milk after maturity. To that I tell them that in a perfect world of balanced nutrition that milk may not be necessary for an adult, but in the imperfect world we live in, milk seems to be a practical way for most adults to get a lot of nutrition which is otherwise more difficult or more expensive to obtain. In my opinion, the issue of horns vs no horns is about the same. In a perfect world maybe we should leave the horns on if they start out with horns but unless someone can offer some hard evidence...anecdota l or otherwise, I feel this is a relatively insignificant issue compared to nutrition, breeding age, outcrossing vs line breeding, and other such issues which seem to overshadow whether an animal has been dehorned or not. I am still hoping someone can offer some solid insight on this issue. Cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 maybe this will work http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gYAzLnk5_awJ:www.anthromedia.net/uploads/media/Baars_-_Harvests_58-3_03.pdf+beitrage+milk+quality+biodynamic & hl=en & ct=clnk & cd=1 & gl=us & client=firefox-a--- Subject: Re: rate that rack!To: RawDairy Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 5:28 PM http://www.anthrome dia.net/uploads/ media/Baars_ -_Harvests_ 58-3_03.pdf. Jenifer Wohlers research (see below) shows that having horns on cows influenced milk quality. The milk from horned cows appeared to be more benefi- cial to human health than that from dehorned stock Milk samples were gathered over an extended pe- riod from the long-standing, partially de-horned Friesian herd on the university research farm enhausen (certified Bioland and Naturland). Bulk milk samples from 25-28 horned and 21-37 de-horned cows were analysed. Age, stage of lactation, milking performance and milk con- stituents of both groups were similar Visual image evaluation A series of twelve pictures per sample was visually evalu- ated. The most readily observable differences are the size of the cavities. The H-milk shows consistently larger cavity forms and more ‘felty’ crystal structures than the Deh-milk. The spiking, branch forms of the H-milk are more rounded and bow-like while those of the Deh-milk lead straight to the periphery or even form snaking lines and appear to run in a less ‘guided’ way. The width of the rim is another ob- servable criterion. The H-milk has a wider rim than the Deh-milk. Overall the H-milk pictures appear more differenti- ated, more harmonious, more evenly formed and more sub- tle than do the pictures from the Deh-milk, some of which give a much coarser and heavier impression. A copper-chloride dilution series using different sample strengths assessed the differences in vitality. At a rate of 350 ml milk to 100 mg CuCl 2 the milk dominates and very subtle crystal structures are formed. The Deh-milk was able to develop a more formative picture at this con- centration. This indicates that the Deh-milk has stronger vi- tality forces than the H-milk but less ordering capacity. (1) Computerized picture assessment A computerized assessment of the pictures led to the same conclusion. After scanning the crystal pictures according to their shades of grey in defined areas, significant differences in milk quality could be established. Summary of the copper-chloride crystallisation Comparison of this work with that of Balzer-Graf and Gallmann (2000) and Johannson-Pieschl (1996) shows that forms obtained from the H-milk series are of close similar- ity to those produced by raw-milk images. With its rela- tively wide spike features the Deh-milk seems at first sight to be more vital. However these features are also character- istic of aged milk which is why Deh-milk can itself be de- scribed as aged or older. The ageing series also indicates that Deh-milk declines in quality at a faster rate than H- milk. The results suggest there are differences in milk quality between horned and dehorned cows, though “quality” needs further clarification. Further studies are needed to establish if it is possible to measure these differ- ences on a molecular level.¶ From: Cleve <machinesvallnet (DOT) com> Subject: Re: rate that rack! To: RawDairy@yahoogroup s.com Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:48 AM Gordon, You are correct about the horns and sinus cavities. Years ago my wife collected some exotic animals, one of which was a water buffalo. He was probably in his teens when we got him and he lived another 15 years with us. About 4 years before his passing, he lost one of his massive horns and in cold weather you could see his breath come out of a hole in his head about the size of a quarter where his horn once was. As far as Biblical guidelines go, don't leave out the instructions about circumcism. I often hear people tell me that man is the only animal which consumes milk from another species (which, by the way is not true) and that man is the only animal which drinks milk after maturity. To that I tell them that in a perfect world of balanced nutrition that milk may not be necessary for an adult, but in the imperfect world we live in, milk seems to be a practical way for most adults to get a lot of nutrition which is otherwise more difficult or more expensive to obtain. In my opinion, the issue of horns vs no horns is about the same. In a perfect world maybe we should leave the horns on if they start out with horns but unless someone can offer some hard evidence...anecdota l or otherwise, I feel this is a relatively insignificant issue compared to nutrition, breeding age, outcrossing vs line breeding, and other such issues which seem to overshadow whether an animal has been dehorned or not. I am still hoping someone can offer some solid insight on this issue. Cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I know you asked but I'll chime in here with a list of animals on our farm that drink milk: cats dogs hogs chickens and some goats We give the goats whey in 5 gallon buckets when I make a lot of cheese. Some of them drink it some do not. The issue is truly who is able and who is not able to get to the milk. We are able to get to the milk so we get to drink it. I also have a friend who says that milk is only for children but eats butter, cheese and yogurt. Go figure. Belinda > > Hey , > One of my relatives won't drink milk and won't give her kids milk and she sites that we are the only animal that drinks other's milk and that we are the only animal that drinks milk in adulthood. Can you tell me what other animals do? And is this a religious issue? She is pretty religious so I thought it might have some religious roots. Thanks for clearing up the mystery for me! I LOVE milk and can't imagine not having it in some form! > Jen > > > > rate that rack! > > so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. > Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' > Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were " superfluous " . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore > My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand.. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Adult animals that drink milk: I remember my uncle giving each barn cat a squirt of fresh warm milk straight from the cow's teat. The cats would sit quietly waiting as he milked and were quick as a....well... a cat to catch the airborne squirt of milk. They were adults. Both my cats and both my dogs love kefired milk. It's a mad house in the kitchen every morning when I strain it. .....sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 A lot of literature seems to say that fermented milks are the traditional way to consume it not just as a fresh drink. Debbie Chikousky Manitoba, Canada " A successful man is one who can build a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him. " -- Brinkley-- rate that rack! >> >> so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the > fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. >> Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be > dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for > religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' >> Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and > apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were > " superfluous " . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a > mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore >> My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently > understand.. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical > sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Jen, I believe that many species of mammals and birds will drink cow milk and goat milk IF they are given the opportunity. Hogs of all ages love it. Many people give skim milk to fattening hogs. We did when I was a kid. We had an old pot bellied pig which lived to be about 15. As he got older, he pretty much lived on raw cow's milk. When I was a kid, a lot of farmers would run hogs with their cattle, but one of the things they had to watch for was the pigs learning to stand on their hind legs to reach a cow's udder and nurse directly from the cow thus robbing the calf of it's milk. Granted this didn't happen often but I have seen it. Mature chickens love milk. We used to have a lot of peacocks which roosted atop our old silo. When they left their roost in the morning they flew directly to the dish where we fed the pot bellied pig to see if there was any milk there. Many people have used goat milk to raise orphaned animals of other species. I have seen a picture of an orphaned kitten nursing a mother dog which had decided voluntarily to take it in. This list could go on and on. The point is that even though each species would doubtless do better on milk from it's own kind, raw milk from a different species is such a power packed food that it can sustain life for the young and old better than most other foods and will be the food of choice by many animals if offered. (I find it ridiculous that the people who run the "Disease Management System" in our country so often warn against the very young and the very old consuming raw milk when these are probably the very ones who can benefit the most from it That is when our animals need it the most) What does your religious relative think about the Biblical phrase "the Land of Milk and Honey" or "My people perish for lack of knowledge"? Some people just don't care for milk and for me , that's fine....just don't use rediculous arguments to justify your position. Cleve rate that rack! so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were "superfluous" . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I guess I was thinking about another adult animal actually procuring the milk itself, but you're right--many other animals like milk and probably enjoy the nutrients as well as the taste. I have never challenged my SIL's beliefs, I usually let it pass. I'm not too well versed in the bible but I know that you can pull a quote from the bible to back up almost anything you believe in (or not). I don't want to offend anyone with my ignorance on the subject, so please no flames on religion! I mean no harm! rate that rack! so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = for religious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it' Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were "superfluous" . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I am in my early ‘60’s and have not drunk milk for over 35 + years. I stoped because if always gave me phlegm, but I do eat ice cream, yogurt and occasionally I eat cheese. None of the dairy products give any problems (other then than milk—raw or otherwise) Since we have goats, I drink goats milk--sometimes , but I just don’t care for milk. Thanks to our creator YHWH, we have never been ill or had any sickness. Other than the occasional cold. As a matter of fact, since I retired 10 years ago and bought this farm, I NEVER had a cold. But while working for some big Int’l company and traveling a lot I used to get colds all the time not to mention heartburn. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 The only reason other animals don't is that they don't have apposable thumbs, so can't figure out how to harvest the milk. rate that rack!> > so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned thefact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the nasal sinuses. > Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't bedehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = forreligious reasons | the God of Israel says 'don't do it'> Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids andapendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that they were"superfluous" . Received wisdom then being that 'God had made amistake'. surgeons don't cut out those organs so quickly, anymore> My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we presentlyunderstand.. Perhaps regulating body temperature. Perhaps electricalsensors for phenomena of which we are yet ignorant> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 My 2.5 cents. (1) Horns only connect deeply into the sinus cavity if they are removed when they are actually allowed to develop into horns. If you remove them when they are a calf and merely horn-buds, there is no deep opening caused. This means your needing to remove them at latest about 8 months of age (depends on the calf of course). I've seen yearlings dehorned that had a well-developed bud (not a horn yet, but well on its way) that caused inch-deep holes to arise. Personally I found it rather brutal to have to watch them suffer with (and in some cases worse, try to heal w/o flies setting up homes in those holes.) Personally if a mature cow has horns, I'd be leaving them on her, even if that might mean I simply wouldnt purchase her. (2) Historically milk would have been consumed a " little bit " raw right when it was harvested, but mostly put into some form of storage/travel container and allowed to ferment. We were a people on the move, and even when we settled, cold storage was not easy to come buy. Many many societies had historical fermented/cultured dairy products in their diets. -Kels, who prefers naturally polled breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Also, I've heard that certain ants milk aphids by stoking them with their antennae. Cool, huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 There is a long history of cultured fermented dairy: clabbered/soured milk, yogurt, kefir, cheese etc. But as far as a lack of cold storage and nomadicism I'd beg to differ. Ice chests, spring houses, root cellars and other things provided cold storage. I'm not sure who you mean by 'we' but not all cultures have been nomadic. Does anyone know what Price found as far as how different traditional cultures consumed their milk? I havn't finished his book yet. Pete destinydreamer_69 wrote: > > > (2) Historically milk would have been consumed a " little bit " raw > right when it was harvested, but mostly put into some form of > storage/travel container and allowed to ferment. We were a people on > the move, and even when we settled, cold storage was not easy to come > buy. Many many societies had historical fermented/cultured dairy > products in their diets. > > -Kels, who prefers naturally polled breeds. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 There are so many religious beliefs it is hard to tell. But in some Christian circles there is a popular diet called the Hallelujah diet. It is a vegan diet based on the idea that man ate no meat or animal products in the garden of Eden and so that being man's perfect state neither should we. There are threads in various Christian groups that promote vegitarianism. I do not find any of them Biblical, but we needn't go into that here so send me an email if you wish to know more. Pete J Franz wrote: > I guess I was thinking about another adult animal actually procuring > the milk itself, but you're right--many other animals like milk and > probably enjoy the nutrients as well as the taste. I have never > challenged my SIL's beliefs, I usually let it pass. I'm not too well > versed in the bible but I know that you can pull a quote from the > bible to back up almost anything you believe in (or not). I don't > want to offend anyone with my ignorance on the subject, so please no > flames on religion! I mean no harm! > > > * rate that rack! > > so far in the discussion about horns, I haven't seen mentioned > the fact that the horn tissue of cattle goes down in to the > nasal sinuses. > > Knowing not much more than than about the topic, I won't be > dehorning my cattle. similar to castrating male animals = > for religious reasons | the God of Israel says /'don't do it'/ > > Physicians used to cut out tonsils, as well as adenoids and > apendix-es on people, with no real reason other than that > they were " superfluous " . Received wisdom then being that > 'God had made a mistake'. surgeons don't cut out those > organs so quickly, anymore > > My guess is that horns are there for good reasons than we > presently understand. Perhaps regulating body temperature. > Perhaps electrical sensors for phenomena of which we are yet > ignorant > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Coyotes do the same thing. This may sound gory and for that I will apologize, but I just read that a bear will eat an ewe alive. Udder first. Now why would you think it would do that? Milk maybe? , Somewhere in S.E. Mi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 This may sound gory and for that I will apologize, but I just read that a bear will eat an ewe alive. Udder first. Now why would you think it would do that? Milk maybe? , Somewhere in S.E. Mi. > I know you asked but I'll chime in here with a list of animals > on our farm that drink milk: > cats > dogs > hogs > chickens > and some goats > The issue is truly who is able and who is not able to get to the milk. We are able to get to the milk so we get to drink it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Tada!Transformed! http://tinyurl.com/5lvj2w , Somewhere in S.E. Mi. http://64.233.167.104/search? q=cache:gYAzLnk5_awJ:www.anthromedia.net/uploads/media/Baars_- _Harvests_58- 3_03.pdf+beitrage+milk+quality+biodynamic & hl=en & ct=clnk & cd=1 & gl=us & clien t=firefox-a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.