Re: Senate Hearing and Senator Dan :<)

August 22, 2008

,

I am absolutely serious. It was hard for me to take the time to listen, and

I almost quit before I got to that part. But he was truly THAT passionate.

nna

August 22, 2008

,

Try using the " Play " button drag to get it closer to where the

exchange occurs. Of course, I have great faith in Hilda

Bowen :>) ... that she will transcribe this passionate defense of our

ASD families for this listserve.

http://www.senate.state.tx.us/avarchive/

Real Player video

You can get to the wonderful discussion by Senator Dan around

2 hour 54 minutes (17 minutes long debate)

You can use play drag bar to get to the specific exchange between

Senator , Advocacy Inc and the lawyer Borreca.

It is a wonderful debate by Senator with Advocacy Inc

and Private law firm attorney Borreca from Bracewell and

Giuliani (My opinion of him is edited for this listserve). The

conversation runs for about 17 minutes, ends around 3 hour 11 minutes.

The Senate video archive date is August 18th, 2008

Click on the hyperlink for August 18th Senate Committee for Education

This is a Senator who greatly cares for Special Education families in

Texas :>)

Again, I believe NO TEXAS Special Need family should be litigated

against for trying to find services for our children. It is

incredibly vicious that we allow Borreca to sit fat and sassy

pontificating about families dealing with ASD.

He does this for PROFIT ... do I need say more.

Advocacy Inc ... well 's responses greatly trouble me.

The parents of Special Need children should have the ultimate say ...

there should be no challenge to this and absolutely NOT a terrible

argument like what did by saying the " State pays for

it " and that a " committee " is best suited determining the education

plan for a child.

Senator clearly had the right to correct when

he said a " committee " is going to have more control over a child's

education plan. Senator clearly expressed my inner being as

a father/parent when he fired back " Excuse me, a committee ... a

committee "

Mark

>

> ,

>

> I am absolutely serious. It was hard for me to take the time to

listen, and

> I almost quit before I got to that part. But he was truly THAT

passionate.

>

> nna

>

August 22, 2008

Hilda,

I can only speak in general, I can't speak to any personal

situations, I am not qualified to do that.

I agree that parents need to make the ultimate decision about what is

best for their child whether they have a disability or not. Parents

should certainly do what they feel is best for their child and chose

whether they want public, homeschool, or private education.

I think Jeff's comment is being taken out of context, he is talking

about ARD committees under IDEA law, at least this is how I

understood it. According to IDEA the ARD committee decides on IEP,

placement, accomodation etc..the parent should be viewed as an equal

and valued member of the ARD committee, there needs to be

facilitation when conflict arises etc...

The fact that Adocacy Inc. has limited staff and can't take may cases

is frustrating for me as well. Advocacy Inc participated in an

education coalition meeting at the ARC of Texas with people

representing many disabilties including autism, the coalition

included one of our list members who supports vouchers and is a

parent advocate. Many of the ideas suggested by Advocacy Inc. as

solutions came directly from this education coalition members

including the person who supports vouchers. I was involved in this

coalition and took many of the problems I am aware of directly and

from folks on this list and other lists including due process reform,

specific teacher training and teacher certification, ongoing training,

statute of limitation issues, mediation and school district attorneys

so on. Presented these problems and collaborated on solutions.

Jeff is a parent of a child with a disability who has had

personal experience with ARD meetings and the frustrations that go

along with this. No one is denying that special education in Texas

needs major reform, it's not just special education, it's regular

education for drop outs, and English as a second language education.

I am starting to comprehend that for some folks nothing short of

vouchers will be the solution that they will accept. Everything seems

to be filtered through these lenses, so nothing anyone does except

for allowing vouchers will be good enough. I accept this as it is

and do the best that I can to satisfy my conscience which dictates

that there needs to be public school special education reform for all

kids with special needs. I won't debate vouchers, I think everyone is

sick of that.

And Hilda, I appreciate you treating me respectfully despite our

difference of opinion. I have the utmost respect for you.

Nagla

>

> Nagla:

>

> Can I ask you though how you feel about what he said about parents

should

> decide what is best for their child and not committees, school

districts, etc.?

> I thought that was a good point. Just the thought (remove it

from a

> scholarship versus no scholarship issue). I don't agree with this

trend of

> sticking my child in a classroom with other kids with special

needs and provide the

> teacher no training and expect them to do applied behavioral

analysis right

> (when the ARD committee agrees to do that, as was in my case).

Conroe ISD had

> GREAT autism classrooms. Every parent whose child was in there

WANTED to be

> there. And they made a decision without any ARD committee

deciding -- no

> more autism classrooms. Everyone goes back to their home campus

or near to

> their home campus as possible and we'll just tell you that nothing

will change.

> We had 70 very irate parents in this district and many of those

children are

> doing horribly, they've regressed horribly, and they are just

tired of

> fighting. I can understand that, too.

>

> That NELI conference I attended in the spring, that attorney named

Buechler

> (?) said at the very end, " Remember, that EVERY teacher in EVERY

classroom

> is doing ABA. " Ah, no. And I heard this same line being thrown at

me during

> an ARD meeting. I don't like this new trend either where they are

refusing

> to recognize a physician's or outside evaluation diagnoses and

say, " Nah, we

> don't agree and therefore we are going to provide nothing. "

>

> I thought Advocacy Inc had some good things to say, but I did not

like what

> else they were saying and I remember asking to myself, " Who's side

are you

> on? " Or " What reality do you live in? " When an agency who takes

federal funds

> turns down parents to help who really need it, or tells them

because they

> aren't in their target group, they can't take their case (oh yes,

someone from

> that agency said that), I question their mission statement. Yes,

I do

> understand that their numbers are few, but don't tell me there is

a perception of

> us versus them (school districts) that is just being perceived by

us, the

> parents, and don't tell me that schools want to resolve things;

they would prefer

> our kids just leave so they don't have to be accountable for them

anymore.

> Leave as in drop-out, homeschool, move to another area, let it be

someone

> else's problem, etc. It sounds like Advocacy Inc is very out of

touch with what

> is truly happening, or someone is getting too buddy-buddy with the

schools'

> parasite attorneys. So I think we need people like Senator

Shapiro and

> Senator and less people like Senator West who walks out

during public

> testimony and doesn't care what the families are going through.

Senator West did

> his fair share of posturing in that committee meeting, too, when

he

> admonished TEA about writing a law that made it look like vouchers

for drop-outs was

> okay, I found out from a reporter that he was just posturing and

well, let me

> just copy what he said to me:

>

> Please, oh, please, don't let senators fool you with their

rhetoric.

>

> Sen. West accuses the Texas Education Agency of sneaking vouchers

into a

> bill, as you point out.

>

> But there's something he's not saying. The Senate has the Senate

Research

> Center, which is responsible for doing research on what a proposed

bill will

> do. The center provides an analysis on all legislation.

>

> If he has a complaint, he ought to take it up with the taxpayer-

funded

> research center. Why didn't the center catch it?

>

> The center should take the blame.

>

> The Texas House has a similar research center.

>

> So I learned something new.

>

> Hilda

>

> In a message dated 8/21/2008 6:28:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> nagla_alvin@... writes:

>

> No need to duck , I certainly respect your choice and can

> understand why. It's important that we can agree to disagree and

be

> adult about it and continue to respect everyone and treat them

with

> dignity.

>

> Nagla

>

> **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find

your travel

> deal here.

> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

>

August 22, 2008

Michele:

Same district we are in now. Conroe ISD.

I often wonder what would have been working on last year (his

teacher last year is in the top best 3 teachers he's ever had, love her) if we

weren't playing the catch-up-on-the-lost-skills game. So really I look at it

as

Aug 2004-May 2005: No new skills were learned (significantly lost in

receptive language) Wasted year

Aug 2005-May 2006: No new skills were learned (even more regression).

Wasted year.

Aug 2006-Dec 2006: No new skills were learned (even more regression).

Wasted 4 months

Jan 2006-Aug 2007: Some reacquisition of skills but no new skills

learned

Aug 2007-May 2008: Some reacquisition of skills and some new skills

learned.

I feel so much like Senator Shapiro. It's time to stop talking and start

doing. So four years of his education were just thrown away. What he should

have been learning in Aug 2004-May 2005, he didn't learn until Aug 2007-May

2008. While I do understand we need to change the system, every child we keep

arguing about changing the system versus allowing us to go elsewhere with a

scholarship (autism or not--I'm for all our kiddos having choice) until the

system can get changed. My son will never get those precious seconds back of

his life. It got so bad that what we were doing in our home progress was

useless, totally useless. I was lucky I had the documentation that I did, but

the 70 parents who rose up and aggressively fought Conroe, even going to the

board of education to speak, they quickly lost the energy to fight and I do not

know of one of them who is doing well (who actually stayed in the district);

only the ones who pulled their children out of school, or moved to another

district are doing better. I even got an email from a woman and her family

who used to be in Conroe who moved to Colombia and she told me her child was

doing much better there and she was absolutely terrified that they are going to

get called back to Texas. Now that is sad.

Let me take the money you (the school district) is spending on my child and

let me take it somewhere that actually cares to educate them). That money

wouldn't give me a full day of ABA in a private school, but it could get me a

decent home program, or half-day with additional money from other sources.

The amount of the scholarship/voucher would have to be enough that it could

actually help, especially for those who couldn't put any additional money to

it.

With our legislators only meeting every 2 years, if nothing gets done

because the disability community is split, then we only hurt ourselves because

all

our kids will suffer yet another 2 years until they get back together.

Compromise means giving some points of your argument up, even ones you are

passionate about, so to reach something that both sides can live with. If

people

who are against scholarships would get behind that idea so our kiddos do not

have to suffer because of their decision, I will stand with them to fight to

change the public school system so that we can fix the system so that maybe

our kiddos can be educated in any meaningful way and come back to the district.

My case is a good point. He was gone for a little while and now he is back

in his local school because the teacher knows what they are doing and they

invested the time to help get the people on his team training. Next year will

be more of the same, but what happens in Aug 2009-May 2010. Will I have

another fight with yet another school (junior high) and another set of players

within the same district.

It's like an artery that is bleeding. When you come across something that

is pulsating blood all over the place, you put a tourniquet on it (a

scholarship/voucher program -- whatever you want to call it -- it doesn't matter

what

you call it) so that you don't allow the patient to die or lose the limb.

Our kids are dying in these oppressive schools who do not care about us. What

has changed in two years since the scholarship thought was repressive? More

brain death. Yes, we need to change the system, but tell me how long has did

it take for black people to fight for their rights and they are still being

discriminated against. We are talking about a generation struggle here that

began in 1974 for us with the original federal law.

We need to stand together, both sides being able to reach a plan that will

work for both sides, so our kids will benefit from it. Until that happens, no

legislation is going to happen. And the resentment between our two points

of view will grow even deeper.

Hilda

In a message dated 8/22/2008 9:38:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

michellemguppy@... writes:

I agree Hilda -- what district were you in where that happened? I feel a

" Ground Hog Day " movie parallel with you!

I agree -- Senator Dan was right on the money and I cannot believe

that I actually heard someone standing up and advocating for my son in the

face of such opposition.

It is absolutely heartbreaking what parents have to go through, and I

admire any Senator or Representative or Policymaker who would dare to stand up

against school lawyers, school unions, etc., - for the rights of our children

with disabilities in the public schools -- to level the playing field in any

way.

I admit I was against vouchers, thinking the ONLY way was to change the

system for EVERYONE. But the more I have experienced, the more I know in my

heart that I cannot and will not stand in the way of a parent who has a choice.

With the new insurance law, many now have the opportunity to have some of

those private schools covered by insurance either partially or fully. For the

remainder of what insurance might not pay -- that voucher or scholarship

would most likely help make up the out-of-pocket expense. And I am not

going

to be the one to look that mom in the eye and say no, because that won't

help me, I'll prevent it from helping you, and most importantly, your child.

I just cannot do that....

I'll support what will help her, - and continue to advocate for what is

needed to help my son too!

Sincerely,

M. Guppy

My autism journey isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about

learning to dance in the rain....

Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvo www.Tex

" There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right to

compromise. We cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one should

live in

one. We cannot debate who should get an inclusive education. Everyone

should. We cannot determine who does and who does not get the right to make

their

own choices and forge their own futures. All must. "

From: _HildaBowen@..._ (mailto:HildaBowen@...) <_HildaBowen@..._

(mailto:HildaBowen@...) >

Subject: Re: [Texas-Autism-Subject: Re: [Texas-Autism-Advocacy] Re:

Senate H<)

To: _Texas-Autism-Texas-AutTexas-AutismTex_

(mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy )

Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 12:42 AM

I avoided due process by having an incredibly tight case against the school

district; that was the only way they paid for 8 months at a private school

for

an " extended functional behavioral assessment. " They didn't do it because

it was right. I had proof that he had a 81% loss in skills because they

didn't train their teachers in proper ABA techniques as agreed upon by the

ARD

committees. And well, I had the principal on tape trying to extort me of my

rights by telling me that if I continued to want to talk about our private

IEE

on the record, they would withdraw the offer. They didn't like that I had

that either. You have to sometimes drop to their incredible cesspool of

filth

in order to level the playing field. And don't you think for one minute that

the rest of the night I didn't feel like throwing up for having to even use

the tape or mention that I had it. My child was educationally raped. That

is not dramatic. All you have to do is watch the Fox 26 story to see how

badly his education was forcibly taken from him.

He spoke for me, as well, Mark, from what I've heard through others posts.

Hilda

In a message dated 8/21/2008 10:36:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

markdebctx (DOT) rr.com writes:

He was wonderful and not dramatic if you are one of the families who

have suffered in Due Process.

************ **It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your

travel

deal here.

(_http://information._ (http://information./) travel.aol. com/deals?

ncid=aoltrv00050 000000047)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 22, 2008

Michele:

I transcribed the testimony from the beginning part. But mere words on a

page cannot give you an idea of how upset she truly was unless you listen to

it.

Do you want me to post here the part I transcribed?

Hilda

In a message dated 8/22/2008 9:47:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

michellemguppy@... writes:

Please post the link to hear that!

M. Guppy

My autism journey isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about

learning to dance in the rain....

Texas Autism Advocacy: www.TexasAutismAdvo www

" There are some aspects of a person's life that we have no right to

compromise. We cannot negotiate the size of an institution. No one should

live in

one. We cannot debate who should get an inclusive education. Everyone

should. We cannot determine who does and who does not get the right to make

their

own choices and forge their own futures. All must. "

From: _specialeffectstutorspecialeffspe_

(mailto:specialeffectstutoring@...) <_specialeffectstutorspecialeffspe_

(mailto:specialeffectstutoring@...) >

Subject: Re: [Texas-Autism-Subject: Re: [Texas-Autism-Advocacy] Re:

Senate H<)

To: _Texas-Autism-Texas-AutTexas-AutismTex_

(mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy )

Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:54 PM

I am very interested in hearing this!

Lesli

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----

From: HildaBowenaol (DOT) com

Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:02:13

To: <Texas-Autism- Advocacy@ yahoogroups. com>

Subject: Re: [Texas-Autism- Advocacy] Re: Senate Hearing and Senator Dan

:<)

If anybody is interested, I have the beginning part where Florence Shapiro

rips into TEA.

That was very pleasurable to listen to.

Hilda

In a message dated 8/21/2008 11:09:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

markdebctx (DOT) rr.com writes:

Hi ,

Cliff Notes version ... maybe Hilda Bowen can help us out ... Laugh

out loud

I could not do justice to the exchange by this wonderful Senator who

cares a great deal for our families. I hope your computer tech guy

wakes up soon .... big smile

Mark

************ **It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your

travel

deal here.

(_http://information._ (http://information./) travel.aol. com/deals?

ncid=aoltrv00050 000000047)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

August 22, 2008

Nagla:

Regarding Jeff , I have a feeling that for him, his ARD process is a

much different experience being the person he is. I am sure they bend over

backwards for him to make sure every I is dotted and every T is crossed. It

could very well be that I am now experiencing that kind of treatment, too,

because the district has come back from 10-day recesses basically saying okay,

we

won't change that, or okay, we'll give you more ESY (at least what I

originally compromised to with the teacher in a private meeting). I would love

for

it to be done, though, in a true sense of cooperation instead of right now

they fear what I might be capable of doing, or just knowing that we could have

access to a pro bono attorney who would take our case or that they would get

negative publicity at least from Fox 26 Houston. I'm sure in those many

years when I thought they had 's best interests at heart, there were

some

things they did pull on me that I didn't know any better. Sure I disagreed

or agreed on points, but he was making progress, I never expected them to give

me the level of education he would get in a private school, but it was fine

that he was moving they way that he was.

I have documents that suggest that the Dr. Randy Soffer, who parents liked

here as the special education director, was pushed out of his job the day after

his contract signed. I have documents that show Jeff (of Feldman &

) was the first reference listed on the new director's application and

who it said she was replacing (Dr. Soffer). There is no misinterpretation of

the documents. Feldman & told Conroe ISD who they needed to hire as

their special education director and well, that is pretty scary that law

firms have that kind of power.

I don't like that he uses the word " perceived " so much. It is a reality.

The reality is, school districts are puppets, being yanked to and fro by the

puppetmasters, the law firms. It is us versus them, and they are using my tax

money to fight me. Something is just very wrong with that. Why can't he

use more forceful language and stand up and say, this is happening and it is

happening in more districts than it isn't. Going to IEP/ARD meetings does not

prepare you for a thing when they start using their lawyer-drilled spin on

things to confuse you and then you, not knowing how to directly spin it back in

their face with counterspin, suddenly agrees. Then you have time to sit and

find out about it and then you find out, you were played. My ARDs leave me

so incredibly drained and my doctor has told me that if I do not find someone

to stop the stress, I am going to die. They spin, you spin it back, they

spin it back, you wind it up and let them have it, then spin less, you go on

the tiltmaster -- it's like a bad carnival ride. I actually have posttraumatic

stress disorder from the whole ordeal from 2004-2006. If Advocacy Inc is

truly on our side, then I'd like him to take a more forceful position about the

reality of what is happening out here. If they aren't taking our cases

because they can only take this or that issue because of their staff issues,

then

they don't really know what is going on.

Advocacy Inc was putting on a IDEA 2004 information thing in conjunction

with Conroe ISD. Before this started, things started getting complicated. The

principal called to inform me that we would not be talking about goals at the

ARD meeting. I ran up to the Advocacy, Inc. representative and I just said,

" I have a very quick question, can they or can they not do that. " My ARD

was the next day. To try to find an advocate or a lawyer to go that next day

when it is already the middle of the afternoon was going to be impossible, so

I figured I'd just ask him, and based on that answer, I'd know how to act.

He wouldn't even give me a yes or a no. My friend, who saw how hysterical I

was, because now they were calling me to tell me I had to come pick up

from school because he was crying and now he had a temperature of 99.1

(school handbook says fever of 100). They couldn't get me, so they called my

husband and started harassing him, and then the principal said she would like

to

speak with him. He had to take a cab costing $75.00 to get to the school and

eventually we got on the phone and I knew the principal was trying to divide

us to get him to say something different. So my friend said she could come

for moral support and maybe calm things down. So we both go to pick him up

and the principal was quite irritated that I got to Jeff before she did. She

brought in a witness saying she wanted to have someone with fresh ears to

here it. So she told us that the teacher told her that she had been working on

the goals for 18 hours already with us. I told her I had not met with the

teacher for 18 hours and if it took her teacher that long to write goals, that

was her problem, and that we still to this day did not have a full set of

proposed goals, one day before the ARD, so she could not say we weren't going

over the goals in the meeting. So at the end of the meeting she agrees, that

obviously there are some things here -- especially when no communication goals

whatsoever were written. She says, okay we'll talk about the goals. So I

go the next day to the ARD, my friend comes with me, and she sits there and

says, " I told you we were going to talk about these goals. " I said, " You are a

liar. " The special ed director was there. I made them get Jeff on the

phone and I said, " Jeff, when we left 's office yesterday, what was your

understanding about the goals and if we were or were not going to talk about

them. " Of course he gave the same version. I then suggested she call in Ms.

Kirbo because I'm sure she would say the same thing, and she got all flustered

and said, " Fine, let the record show that in order to be cooperative with the

parents, we will go ahead and talk about the goals. " And I said, " I want

the record to show that parents were told in private meeting by principal that

the goals would be discussed since no real opportunity had existed to discuss

the goals previous to this ARD meeting and by law, the ARD committee needed

to go over the goals. " I was then told by the special education director

that the minutes were " their minutes " and that if I wanted to write something

down, I could do that on a separate piece of paper.

Trust me, Nagla, just from the people who have shared their experiences with

their school district on this list and others, the " perceived " thing is a

reality. And when he says " perceived " it reminds me of the stuff this

principal used to do -- pretend to be on your side, but act totally contrary to

that

perception.

It makes me cry.

Hilda

In a message dated 8/22/2008 11:32:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

nagla_alvin@... writes: