Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I would like to have folks post here, if that's okay. I'd be interested as I always have an abundance of apples. Where are you with too many persimmons? I'm lucky if I get three good, ripe ones a year! But now apples, I have three varieties just in my backyard............ Shari in Washington state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Todd, this should get you started. http://howtomakevinegar.com/ Good luck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Go to my website at http://recipesandremedials.wikidot.com/article:30 for info on making vinegar ..There are also links to some better " experts " than me but I have been having good luck with scrap and other vinegar. Joyce Simmerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Great information, thanks for the web links. ShariV, I'm in Japan, where we always have lots of persimmons--but this year was an especially big crop. I also did a search for persimmon vinegar in Japanese and found this page, which is great! http://ht.ly/7mtdZ Translate is not very good, but fortunately I can read Japanese to some extent. Basically you just put organic, unwashed persimmons in your container, stir it every so often, and the microorganisms on the skin take care of the rest. In 3 months you strain it and that's your vinegar. Quite easy compared to other types. I'll be interested to see if this produces a MOV for me to use as a starter for other vinegars. I know that MOV is not necessary to get the process started, but it would be proof that the product is actually vinegar. This year is quite warm--disturbing on a few levels. I think I have about a month to find a nice big ceramic container and locate persimmon trees that aren't being picked... -Todd > > I would like to have folks post here, if that's okay. I'd be interested as > I always have an abundance of apples. Where are you with too many > persimmons? I'm lucky if I get three good, ripe ones a year! But now > apples, I have three varieties just in my backyard............ > > Shari in Washington state > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi Joyce and all, I got a delicious persimmon vinegar from my ferment! I am draining the first liquid now; I will press the lees for a 2nd liquid and bottle them separately. My question is, should I pasteurize it or not? I love raw foods but I'd hate to see my work go to waste if it turns into something not delicious. Thanks for any info or experiences! -Todd > > Go to my website at http://recipesandremedials.wikidot.com/article:30 > for info on making vinegar ..There are also links to some better > " experts " than me but I have been having good luck with scrap and other > vinegar. Joyce Simmerman > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi, Persimmon sounds like an interesting vinegar. I am NOT an expert by any means but it WILL keep safe left " raw " (without pasteurization). Example is the Braggs live raw vinegar, (sold in health food stores), with a tiny bit of " Mother " in which has been filtered, (I assume), and then bottled with the cap on rather than a breathable cloth or coffee filter on top. It is the PH of the vinegar which will keep mold etc. from forming or pathogens from being harmful. Filtering the vinegar with a coffee filter doesn't " kill " the active bacteria ..it will eventually develop new " Mothers " of its own but much slower since it is capped and also because much of the MOV (Mother of Vinegar) has been removed. I obviously do not know if the tiny bit of " Mother " material found in the Braggs is left there on purpose or an after-formed MOV but I know when I've bottled up a filtered vinegar, it will again form its own with or without a bit of MOV left in. You threw me a curve with the idea of pressing the " lees " . I assumed it was the settlings, but being somewhat unsure if it was of actual fruit left over, or just the settlings at the bottom of the actual liquid after any fruit was already removed such as in the first few weeks of fermentation, so I looked it up. I wasn't sure if you were planning to also use the thicker settlings (lees), as for instance possibly in a sweet and sour thick base for salads, so decided it was an interesting enough topic to check out. After checking it out I am still not quite sure how you would use them ..., (harden your man? , make him " stupidly secure " or " severely suffering " ? I am, of course, jesting. Please share! I especially found those descriptions from the 1897 Bible Dictionary interesting which I boldened). Here is what I found at http://*dictionary.die.net/lees:* lees** n : the sediment from fermentation of an alcoholic beverageSource: */Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)/* *Lee* \Lee\, n.; pl.Lees (l[=e]z). [F. lie, perh. fr. L. levare to lift up, raise. Cf.Lever <http://dictionary.die.net/lever>.] That which settles at the bottom, asof a caskof liquor (esp. wine); sediment; dregs; -- used now only in the plural. [Lees occurs also as a formof the singular.] ``Thelees of wine.'' --Holland. A thousand demons lurk within the lee. --Young. The wineof life is drawn, and the merelees Is left this vault to bragof. --Shak. *Lees* \Lees\ (l[=e]s), n. A leash. [Obs.] --Chaucer. *Lees* \Lees\ (l[=e]z), n. pl. Dregs. See 2dLee <http://dictionary.die.net/lee>. Source: */Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary/* *Lees* *(Heb. shemarim),* from a wordmeaning to keep or preserve. It was applied to " lees " from the customof allowing wine to stand on thelees that it might thereby be better preserved (Isa. 25:6). * " Men settled on theirlees " (Zeph. 1:12) are men " hardened or crusted. " * The image is derived from the crust formed at the bottomof wines long left undisturbed (Jer. 48:11).*The effect of wealthy undisturbed ease on the ungodly is hardening. They become stupidly secure*(comp. Ps. 55:19; Amos 6:1).*To drink the lees (Ps. 75:8) denotes severe suffering.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi, Persimmon sounds like an interesting vinegar. I am NOT an expert by any means but it WILL keep safe left " raw " (without pasteurization). Example is the Braggs live raw vinegar, (sold in health food stores), with a tiny bit of " Mother " in which has been filtered, (I assume), and then bottled with the cap on rather than a breathable cloth or coffee filter on top. It is the PH of the vinegar which will keep mold etc. from forming or pathogens from being harmful. Filtering the vinegar with a coffee filter doesn't " kill " the active bacteria ..it will eventually develop new " Mothers " of its own but much slower since it is capped and also because much of the MOV (Mother of Vinegar) has been removed. I obviously do not know if the tiny bit of " Mother " material found in the Braggs is left there on purpose or an after-formed MOV but I know when I've bottled up a filtered vinegar, it will again form its own with or without a bit of MOV left in. You threw me a curve with the idea of pressing the " lees " . I assumed it was the settlings, but being somewhat unsure if it was of actual fruit left over, or just the settlings at the bottom of the actual liquid after any fruit was already removed such as in the first few weeks of fermentation, so I looked it up. I wasn't sure if you were planning to also use the thicker settlings (lees), as for instance possibly in a sweet and sour thick base for salads, so decided it was an interesting enough topic to check out. After checking it out I am still not quite sure how you would use them ..., (harden your man? , make him " stupidly secure " or " severely suffering " ? I am, of course, jesting. Please share! I especially found those descriptions from the 1897 Bible Dictionary interesting which I boldened). Here is what I found at http://*dictionary.die.net/lees:* lees** n : the sediment from fermentation of an alcoholic beverageSource: */Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)/* *Lee* \Lee\, n.; pl.Lees (l[=e]z). [F. lie, perh. fr. L. levare to lift up, raise. Cf.Lever <http://dictionary.die.net/lever>.] That which settles at the bottom, asof a caskof liquor (esp. wine); sediment; dregs; -- used now only in the plural. [Lees occurs also as a formof the singular.] ``Thelees of wine.'' --Holland. A thousand demons lurk within the lee. --Young. The wineof life is drawn, and the merelees Is left this vault to bragof. --Shak. *Lees* \Lees\ (l[=e]s), n. A leash. [Obs.] --Chaucer. *Lees* \Lees\ (l[=e]z), n. pl. Dregs. See 2dLee <http://dictionary.die.net/lee>. Source: */Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary/* *Lees* *(Heb. shemarim),* from a wordmeaning to keep or preserve. It was applied to " lees " from the customof allowing wine to stand on thelees that it might thereby be better preserved (Isa. 25:6). * " Men settled on theirlees " (Zeph. 1:12) are men " hardened or crusted. " * The image is derived from the crust formed at the bottomof wines long left undisturbed (Jer. 48:11).*The effect of wealthy undisturbed ease on the ungodly is hardening. They become stupidly secure*(comp. Ps. 55:19; Amos 6:1).*To drink the lees (Ps. 75:8) denotes severe suffering.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi, I do want to add a note since this IS the kombucha forum ..the advice re. capping the vinegar should have an extra caution with kombucha since keeping the final product capped too tightly for fizziness has sometimes been said to lead to glass explosions. I've never done that but I've read accounts often enough that I wanted to warn of it as flying glass shards can obviously be dangerous. Please read your kombucha sealing instructions carefully if you do opt to do tight sealing for fizziness. Cheers, Joyce Simmerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi, I do want to add a note since this IS the kombucha forum ..the advice re. capping the vinegar should have an extra caution with kombucha since keeping the final product capped too tightly for fizziness has sometimes been said to lead to glass explosions. I've never done that but I've read accounts often enough that I wanted to warn of it as flying glass shards can obviously be dangerous. Please read your kombucha sealing instructions carefully if you do opt to do tight sealing for fizziness. Cheers, Joyce Simmerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Joyce, that's some research. But I think I misspoke when I said that, leading you down the entirely wrong path. I think lees is similar to the sediment at the bottom of kombucha, which I think is mostly dead yeast. What I'm going to press is the fruit residue, after letting the 'first press' drain off by gravity. I assume it'll be a little more bitter or sour than the first batch, so I'll put it in a second bottle. Whoever said the devil was in the lees was onto something, tho--another fermenting I've got going on is my first batch of sake, and I got the recipe just right for a morning headache bomb... I wonder if filtering it would help. Anyway, persimmon vinegar is wonderful, incredible stuff! It's not vinegary like anything I've bought in a store. The first taste is quite vinegary, and you're just puckering your lips when it goes away and melts into a sweet, fruity finish. It's easy to drink straight, but just as potent as other vinegars, as my stomach tells me. I got about 5 liters from the first draining and expect to get half that again from the press. It won't be nearly enough to last a year! I'm going to try to cram my big containers into the fridge and leave a small one out at room temp to see how it ages. If it's all good I'll store them with our other room temperature things. thanks for the input! -Todd > > Hi, > > Persimmon sounds like an interesting vinegar. I am NOT an expert by any > means but it WILL keep safe left " raw " (without pasteurization). > Example is the Braggs live raw vinegar, (sold in health food stores), > with a tiny bit of " Mother " in which has been filtered, (I assume), and > then bottled with the cap on rather than a breathable cloth or coffee > filter on top. It is the PH of the vinegar which will keep mold etc. > from forming or pathogens from being harmful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Joyce, that's some research. But I think I misspoke when I said that, leading you down the entirely wrong path. I think lees is similar to the sediment at the bottom of kombucha, which I think is mostly dead yeast. What I'm going to press is the fruit residue, after letting the 'first press' drain off by gravity. I assume it'll be a little more bitter or sour than the first batch, so I'll put it in a second bottle. Whoever said the devil was in the lees was onto something, tho--another fermenting I've got going on is my first batch of sake, and I got the recipe just right for a morning headache bomb... I wonder if filtering it would help. Anyway, persimmon vinegar is wonderful, incredible stuff! It's not vinegary like anything I've bought in a store. The first taste is quite vinegary, and you're just puckering your lips when it goes away and melts into a sweet, fruity finish. It's easy to drink straight, but just as potent as other vinegars, as my stomach tells me. I got about 5 liters from the first draining and expect to get half that again from the press. It won't be nearly enough to last a year! I'm going to try to cram my big containers into the fridge and leave a small one out at room temp to see how it ages. If it's all good I'll store them with our other room temperature things. thanks for the input! -Todd > > Hi, > > Persimmon sounds like an interesting vinegar. I am NOT an expert by any > means but it WILL keep safe left " raw " (without pasteurization). > Example is the Braggs live raw vinegar, (sold in health food stores), > with a tiny bit of " Mother " in which has been filtered, (I assume), and > then bottled with the cap on rather than a breathable cloth or coffee > filter on top. It is the PH of the vinegar which will keep mold etc. > from forming or pathogens from being harmful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Great on your project! I do have a possible cautionary word tho after reading your note. My best advice from all my kefir and other gurus is that the refrigerator can change the " balance " of yeasts and bacterias remaining in fermented products such that IF you want " live " fermented foods to help with digestion, etc. it seems to be that it should remain at room temp. That is my " take " on all the storage advice I've read yet, but I know MY " knowledge " is still far from " expert " ! Cheers, Joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Great on your project! I do have a possible cautionary word tho after reading your note. My best advice from all my kefir and other gurus is that the refrigerator can change the " balance " of yeasts and bacterias remaining in fermented products such that IF you want " live " fermented foods to help with digestion, etc. it seems to be that it should remain at room temp. That is my " take " on all the storage advice I've read yet, but I know MY " knowledge " is still far from " expert " ! Cheers, Joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Persimmon vinegar is made in the cold months in Japan, when it's right around freezing. The recipe is pretty simple--put whole, unwashed persimmons in a bucket. Stir every few days. In a month or two you have vinegar. Because it was made in cold weather I'm thinking that the balance is already where it wants to be for refrigeration--what do you think? -Todd > > Great on your project! I do have a possible cautionary word tho after > reading your note. My best advice from all my kefir and other gurus is > that the refrigerator can change the " balance " of yeasts and bacterias > remaining in fermented products such that IF you want " live " fermented > foods to help with digestion, etc. it seems to be that it should remain > at room temp. That is my " take " on all the storage advice I've read > yet, but I know MY " knowledge " is still far from " expert " ! Cheers, Joyce > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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