Darv

[Guest guest]

I had a high sed rate and fever and rash and weird sore throat

and....horrible joint pain, but....joints were not swollen!!!. At first

everyone thought I

was faking it...till the high fevers..Hugs Liz...

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[Guest guest]

Darv:

You have valid points, of course and entitled to your opinion, just

as I'm entitled to mine. You are also correct about the use of

chemicals in our environment and ourselves, our homes, the air and

everything else we come in contact with.

If it weren't for my husband (city boy) I'd have gone back to farming

years ago! Farming to my husband is a bunch of plants in pots on the

porch. That's exactly what I have too but more like a jungle on my

patio which includes three huge Aloe Vera plants. And yes, I use them

on a regular basis.

I'm not a naturalist or a back to nature kind of person but I'm also

not materialistic, and, in fact would actually prefer a quieter

existance in the country. Even that is poisoned, I'm sure.

Our strains of the flu are not the same as they once were or our

bodies developed enough anti-bodies to fight it off better. The food

we take in, some of it local most of it foreign (and expensive) helps

to feed the natural fight. I'm not even talking about organic

(another discussion for another time).

The point I'm trying to make is that the shot is NOT for everyone

though it's being pushed that way. You do as you need to in order to

fight the best you can, I will fend off the flu in my own manner as

best I can. Not to say one is better than the other - it's just

which works for us.

Does that makes more sense and less abrasive? By the way Darv,

thanks, it's been awhile since anyone has debated with me. It feels

good. I grew up in that kind of environment; loud, almost forceful

debates about some of the most ridiculous things. I miss that.

Take care and be well.

Ellen

[Guest guest]

Howdy 4:00 AM Friend......I have to agree with you as it is quite likely

that immunizations of some sort caused Stills in me. As I've told the story

before, a few days after receiving all of my immunizations (and whatever

else the military shot into me) I wound up hospitalized for over a week with

the exact same symptoms that re-occurred on January 14th, 2004. I assume I

had a remission, although weird blood work and test results started to show

up sporadically from when I first got sick in the Army until I was

" officially " (even though a few Dr's think I may have something no one has

seen before) diagnosed with Stills.

The only other time in my life I received a flu shot was when I was on

Enbrel, and that bought me a 16 day resort vacation. Anyone could argue that

the vaccination caused it, my immune system was depleted due to Enbrel or a

myriad of other possibilities, but we'll never know, at least I don't think

we will within my lifetime.

I already have discussed what vaccinations our sons will have after going

through what I've gone through, and it is a hard decision that has to be

discussed with my PCP, RD, research and such. I would never forgive myself

if one or both of my sons were susceptible to anything like this if there

was a way to " find out " and " prove " . I'd sooner eat a bullet for my family

than allow any of them to be harmed if it came down to it, and that is my

train of thought regarding vaccinations and the like.

One of my best friends works for a Bio-Engineering firm. He actually does

research and creates (within a team, of course) vaccinations, medications

and such and even he told me that no one can possibly know all of the

ramifications of any of this off hand. It takes years of tracking individual

statistics and seeking out any patterns. He went to school for this and

graduated Magna Cum Laud from Penn State and has also attended the

University of Whales. He is currently working towards his PHD. When a man,

this intelligent tells me of the possibilities, it can scare the shit out of

you. The one thing that keeps me grounded is the fact that you are born,

live and die. How & why are the variables, but mainly out of our control.

That is why I tend not to get into these types of debates as no one can

possibly " KNOW " they are right. I'd rather spend my time enjoying what I

can, watching my children grow and learn, doing things with them and such.

It is also why I tend to post off the wall stuff at times, as I love

humor, even if my mind has a tendency towards gutter material.

Live life, enjoy what you can, bitch when things don't go your

way......but why waste time pondering answers to questions that may never be

answered. It is the same thing with what ever your religious beliefs are. I

have mine, others have theirs, and each is entitled to their own. I see

religious bashing as the lowest form of cowardliness. If you can't have

faith in life, why bother living?

Oh well, just a rant, and NOT directed at ANYONE. I'm friends with too

many people on this list for me to attack anyone,and the list has been a

God-send for me.

I have to try & sleep...AGAIN.

I should have my PC fully functional by Monday if all goes well, so I'll

be more available after that.

I have to see my pain specialist today and argue for some patches or

something, as he just wants to increase my morphine pump. That works great

on my back, but I can't see it helping every other joint that hurt so bad

when lying still that I awake to myself screaming about every 70-90 minutes.

I hope everyone has a good, pain free day.

Kirk

>

> Darv:

>

> You have valid points, of course and entitled to your opinion, just

> as I'm entitled to mine. You are also correct about the use of

> chemicals in our environment and ourselves, our homes, the air and

> everything else we come in contact with.

>

> If it weren't for my husband (city boy) I'd have gone back to farming

> years ago! Farming to my husband is a bunch of plants in pots on the

> porch. That's exactly what I have too but more like a jungle on my

> patio which includes three huge Aloe Vera plants. And yes, I use them

> on a regular basis.

>

> I'm not a naturalist or a back to nature kind of person but I'm also

> not materialistic, and, in fact would actually prefer a quieter

> existance in the country. Even that is poisoned, I'm sure.

>

> Our strains of the flu are not the same as they once were or our

> bodies developed enough anti-bodies to fight it off better. The food

> we take in, some of it local most of it foreign (and expensive) helps

> to feed the natural fight. I'm not even talking about organic

> (another discussion for another time).

>

> The point I'm trying to make is that the shot is NOT for everyone

> though it's being pushed that way. You do as you need to in order to

> fight the best you can, I will fend off the flu in my own manner as

> best I can. Not to say one is better than the other - it's just

> which works for us.

>

> Does that makes more sense and less abrasive? By the way Darv,

> thanks, it's been awhile since anyone has debated with me. It feels

> good. I grew up in that kind of environment; loud, almost forceful

> debates about some of the most ridiculous things. I miss that.

>

> Take care and be well.

>

> Ellen

>

>

>

--

Everything in life sucks except things that should!

[Guest guest]

Kirk,

Anything is possible but to my knowledge based on what I have read

immunizations have never been a suspect for any type of autoimmune disease.

There is a higher likelihood that one of the injection sites was not

properly sterilized or the person giving the shot contaminated the needle.

There is still a lot of research going on but the general consensus is that

a viral infection of some sort causes autoimmune diseases. The virus

attacks the body. The immune system detects the invasion of the virus and

is triggered in to attacking the virus. In a manner that is unknown, the

immune system goes in to overdrive and continues the attack but mistakes its

own body for the virus it was sent out to attack. For us with Still's it's

the cartridge and connective tissues which run though out the body which is

why we feel it in our muscles and other areas. For my daughter, it was

her bile ducts. We may have both contracted the same infection that

triggered our immune systems but our bodies reacted differently.

I don't doubt that the immunizations and the later illness you suffered

were the results of you getting the shots. I am just more suspect that it

was probably an infection caused by improper administration of the

immunizations than it was the vaccines themselves. If it were the

vaccines, given the number of people treated, we'd see a much higher

incidence of these diseases within the military and anyone traveling abroad.

Since the rate of incidence is no higher in this group, it's likely an

active infection and not a sterilized (dead) virus used in vaccines.

Just my 2 cents worth but it is based on a lot of reading regarding both

mine and my daughters illness and what doctors are currently telling me

about what they think causes the disease.

Darv

From: Stillsdisease [mailto:Stillsdisease ]

On Behalf Of Kirk Bonanny

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:52 AM

To: Stillsdisease

Subject: Re: Re: Darv

Howdy 4:00 AM Friend......I have to agree with you as it is quite likely

that immunizations of some sort caused Stills in me. As I've told the story

before, a few days after receiving all of my immunizations (and whatever

else the military shot into me) I wound up hospitalized for over a week with

the exact same symptoms that re-occurred on January 14th, 2004. I assume I

had a remission, although weird blood work and test results started to show

up sporadically from when I first got sick in the Army until I was

" officially " (even though a few Dr's think I may have something no one has

seen before) diagnosed with Stills.

The only other time in my life I received a flu shot was when I was on

Enbrel, and that bought me a 16 day resort vacation. Anyone could argue that

the vaccination caused it, my immune system was depleted due to Enbrel or a

myriad of other possibilities, but we'll never know, at least I don't think

we will within my lifetime.

I already have discussed what vaccinations our sons will have after going

through what I've gone through, and it is a hard decision that has to be

discussed with my PCP, RD, research and such. I would never forgive myself

if one or both of my sons were susceptible to anything like this if there

was a way to " find out " and " prove " . I'd sooner eat a bullet for my family

than allow any of them to be harmed if it came down to it, and that is my

train of thought regarding vaccinations and the like.

One of my best friends works for a Bio-Engineering firm. He actually does

research and creates (within a team, of course) vaccinations, medications

and such and even he told me that no one can possibly know all of the

ramifications of any of this off hand. It takes years of tracking individual

statistics and seeking out any patterns. He went to school for this and

graduated Magna Cum Laud from Penn State and has also attended the

University of Whales. He is currently working towards his PHD. When a man,

this intelligent tells me of the possibilities, it can scare the shit out of

you. The one thing that keeps me grounded is the fact that you are born,

live and die. How & why are the variables, but mainly out of our control.

That is why I tend not to get into these types of debates as no one can

possibly " KNOW " they are right. I'd rather spend my time enjoying what I

can, watching my children grow and learn, doing things with them and such.

It is also why I tend to post off the wall stuff at times, as I love

humor, even if my mind has a tendency towards gutter material.

Live life, enjoy what you can, bitch when things don't go your

way......but why waste time pondering answers to questions that may never be

answered. It is the same thing with what ever your religious beliefs are. I

have mine, others have theirs, and each is entitled to their own. I see

religious bashing as the lowest form of cowardliness. If you can't have

faith in life, why bother living?

Oh well, just a rant, and NOT directed at ANYONE. I'm friends with too

many people on this list for me to attack anyone,and the list has been a

God-send for me.

I have to try & sleep...AGAIN.

I should have my PC fully functional by Monday if all goes well, so I'll

be more available after that.

I have to see my pain specialist today and argue for some patches or

something, as he just wants to increase my morphine pump. That works great

on my back, but I can't see it helping every other joint that hurt so bad

when lying still that I awake to myself screaming about every 70-90 minutes.

I hope everyone has a good, pain free day.

Kirk