Re: dumped children, sort of off topic

[Guest guest]

Awesome, Amnesty! :-)

>

> I marched on the capitol today My 5 year old had a great time

> yelling, " What do we want? EQUALITY! When do we want it? NOW! "

> I swear, he has a voice and personality made for protesting, lol.

> Amnesty

[Guest guest]

>

> debi then why do to they not just live as married even if they cannot

> obtain of marriage license many of not same sex do that and that is of

> their choices too and they are of fine with it.

>

> so you are of saying in california they cannot be allowed to get of

> married there anymore. was of that a people vote or president poer to

> say no..

> sondra

>

It was a vote, but it was very, very close, 52% to 48%.

And they DO live together anyway, most of them, but the fact is, it's

discrimination to tell someone they can't do something that everyone

else is allowed to do. I can see where it's hard to understand, but

try to think of how hurt you would feel if someone told you that you

were not allowed to marry the person you wanted to marry. Even though

it's " just a piece of paper, " it does stand for something: love and

commitment between two people. The difference between heterosexual

couples who CHOSE to just live together without getting married is

that it is their CHOICE. If they chose to get married, they can, and

if they chose not to, they don't. With same sex couples, there's no

choice. They can't get married when they want to.

Amnesty

[Guest guest]

Thanks I was out last weekend in the rain too, before the election,

but this was much nicer, and a lot more peaceful.

Amnesty

> >

> > I marched on the capitol today My 5 year old had a great time

> > yelling, " What do we want? EQUALITY! When do we want it? NOW! "

> > I swear, he has a voice and personality made for protesting, lol.

> > Amnesty

>

[Guest guest]

As I understand it, a court ruled that gay people could get a marriage

certificate and the people of the state just had a majority vote to

create a California constitutional amendment that marriage is between

one man and one woman so that is now the only CA constitutional way to

get a marriage certificate.

Yes, a gay couple does simply live together. To be honest, I'm not

sure why they want a marriage license. Straight couples are refusing

to marry more and more, citing it's simply a piece of paper. I

personally do not believe a state should even have the authority to do

marriage licenses, I think it's a personal issue that shouldn't even

have government involvement, religious only if that applies. If a

couple chooses to separate I don't think it should be clogging up the

court systems. Child custody/child support is generally done married

or never married. Not to mention straight couples have defiled the

marital covenant plenty with all the divorce and mistreatment of

spouses over the years.

I think people have a right to live together how ever they want. I

think we need to solve the legal issues. Such as two sisters who are

single parents living together and raising their kids together, and

having them listed as multiple guardians. Or an aging mother and her

adult daughter. Or a father and adult. I think they should be able to

access each other's health care if needed, have custodial rights if

needed, etc. I don't think they should have to have a marriage

certificate to do it. I think we're skirting the issue of how to make

non-traditional families have been qualities of life when all we focus

on is a marriage certificate.

Debi

>

> debi then why do to they not just live as married even if they cannot

> obtain of marriage license many of not same sex do that and that is of

> their choices too and they are of fine with it.

>

> so you are of saying in california they cannot be allowed to get of

> married there anymore. was of that a people vote or president poer to

> say no..

> sondra

>

[Guest guest]

Another reason is that in the event that one parent is incapcitated,

their partner is able to take over power of attorney for their care,

and shared custody of children. Without a marriage certificate, these

are all thrown into a wringer. Also, the GAO identified over 1,000

federal laws affected by marriage status.

[Guest guest]

>

> Subject: Re: dumped children, sort of off topic

> To: Autism_in_Girls

> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:56 PM

>

> > >>

> > > I agree with this wholeheartedly. A loving family

> matters FAR more

> > > to a child than a standard " mommy and

> daddy " family.

> >

> > Totally....and related to this, what a bunch of

> closed-minded bigots

> > we have here in CA voting yes on Prop 8. It's

> unconstitutional,

> > though, so will be overturned, but still.... I'm

> so embarrassed for

> > our state.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> I marched on the capitol today My 5 year old had a great

> time

> yelling, " What do we want? EQUALITY! When do we want

> it? NOW! "

> I swear, he has a voice and personality made for

> protesting, lol.

> Amnesty

AWESOME! Activism can and should be a family affair. That's how kids learn that

they can make a difference.

*idealist activist. heehee*

[Guest guest]

Amnesty, thanks.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> AWESOME! Activism can and should be a family affair. That's how kids

learn that they can make a difference.

>

> *idealist activist. heehee*

>

LOL, my mom used to drag us around to protests, rallies, sit ins, and

all kinds of things when we were kids. And let me tell you, I had a

MUCH better understanding of current events than any of my peers did.

Heck, most of the time I think I still do, lol.

We're going to start homeschooling at the end of the month, but we've

been working on some stuff already. Especially with the elections and

the political stuff. Rory came with me to vote, read the ballot with

me, and stayed up to watch the elections and Obama's victory speech. I

want him (and my other kids) to grow up learning about the whole

democratic process, and all the different ways we can make our voices

heard

Amnesty

[Guest guest]

>

> One of the parents I have the most reverence for came to one of the

> autism 101 classes I was doing. she was a single foster parent who got

> a little guy with autism. That " foster mom " jumped through all sorts

> of hoops. She had a job that required some travel but she had to give

> it up or she couldn't have him. She was attending every autism group

> meeting she could, reading every book, trying the diets, etc to help

> this kid. I think that was 2 yrs ago and she still has him. I hope if

> she can be his permanent mom some day, God knows she's been more of a

> real mom to him than anyone else has.

>

> And, I know I'm opening a huge can of worms on this one, it really,

> really shows that gay people have a very valuable, very needed, very

> critical role that should be welcomed in fostering/adopting kids.

>

> Debi

i think a loving caring home with people that you are important too is

better than being in a fostter care facility. i know a couple who had

to wait six years and was refused again and again on the basis that

they were gay. they got a child finally an autistic child. now get

this, this really got me angry, they were allowed an autistic kid

because they felt it unlikley that the child could be damaged further.

this kid is in private school, diets, floortime sessions, swam with the

dolphins here with us. i mean everything. one guy stopped working so he

could be a stay at home 'mom'

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, all the while these people feeling the child couldn't be damaged

any further ignore their own sin, their own ways they create

dysfunction in their own home. Heck, I'm obese, there's plenty in The

Bible about self-control, about being a glutton. If we stop adopting

out children based on any self-proclaimed (or obvious by looking at)

glutton, then what, 60% of those potential families will be ineligible?

Meanwhile, all the people so against anyone gay adopting kids are not

lifting a finger to ensure these kids have homes. Kids need families

who will love them. There ain't a non-dysfunctional family out there!!!!!!

Debi

--- In Autism_in_Girls , " autisticdreaming "

>

> i think a loving caring home with people that you are important too is

> better than being in a fostter care facility. i know a couple who had

> to wait six years and was refused again and again on the basis that

> they were gay. they got a child finally an autistic child. now get

> this, this really got me angry, they were allowed an autistic kid

> because they felt it unlikley that the child could be damaged further.

>

> this kid is in private school, diets, floortime sessions, swam with the

> dolphins here with us. i mean everything. one guy stopped working so he

> could be a stay at home 'mom'

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You're welcome

Here are some pictures from today:

http://amnestyskids.blogspot.com/2008/11/equal-rights-rally.html

Amnesty

>

> Amnesty, thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

And there's my husband, who's dad is gay....but he gets all his

anxiety and mental health issues from his straight mom, lol.

Amnesty

>

> There ain't a non-dysfunctional family out there!!!!!!

>

> Debi

>

> --- In Autism_in_Girls , " autisticdreaming "

> >

> > now get

> > this, this really got me angry, they were allowed an autistic kid

> > because they felt it unlikley that the child could be damaged

further.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

debi this is of what was of trying to share earlier of how that some

who confess of christian faith will judge so harshly things out of

ignorance. if they are of the point and judge it makes of their own sin

stand out.

sondra

[Guest guest]

>

> debi this is of what was of trying to share earlier of how that some

> who confess of christian faith will judge so harshly things out of

> ignorance. if they are of the point and judge it makes of their own sin

> stand out.

> sondra

>

Exactly! Very well said Sondra.

Amnesty

[Guest guest]

It is so sad that the authorities would think " oh, well, give the gay

guys the autistic kid... " as you said. That is just eight kinds of

insulting to both the guys and the child! It sounds like it's worked

out wonderfully though.

Gay people are just like everyone else - wonderful parents or not,

good or bad or in between. And my own gay friends who have become

parents have been so incredibly thankful they got there - after a LOT

of trying - they're the among most involved and educated parents I know.

We went to the vigil in our town the other night against the passage

of Prop 8 - we stood next to two families with lesbian parents - some

of our best friends - and we yelled and sang and prayed and cried -

that some day in this great country they will be equal citizens under

the law. To me this is nothing less than a civil rights issue. And

when it comes to adopting or fostering special needs kids - I think

that both the kids and the parents, gay or straight, will be best

served if they are allowed to become families.

> >

> > One of the parents I have the most reverence for came to one of the

> > autism 101 classes I was doing. she was a single foster parent who got

> > a little guy with autism. That " foster mom " jumped through all sorts

> > of hoops. She had a job that required some travel but she had to give

> > it up or she couldn't have him. She was attending every autism group

> > meeting she could, reading every book, trying the diets, etc to help

> > this kid. I think that was 2 yrs ago and she still has him. I hope if

> > she can be his permanent mom some day, God knows she's been more of a

> > real mom to him than anyone else has.

> >

> > And, I know I'm opening a huge can of worms on this one, it really,

> > really shows that gay people have a very valuable, very needed, very

> > critical role that should be welcomed in fostering/adopting kids.

> >

> > Debi

>

>

> i think a loving caring home with people that you are important too is

> better than being in a fostter care facility. i know a couple who had

> to wait six years and was refused again and again on the basis that

> they were gay. they got a child finally an autistic child. now get

> this, this really got me angry, they were allowed an autistic kid

> because they felt it unlikley that the child could be damaged further.

>

> this kid is in private school, diets, floortime sessions, swam with the

> dolphins here with us. i mean everything. one guy stopped working so he

> could be a stay at home 'mom'

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is the issue. Unfortunately many many federal laws, state laws,

and other priviledges (like the cost of your car insurance - goes down

when legally married!) are linked to marriage. Also there are just so

many ways in which marriage legitamizes a couple in society. It is a

huge thing for the gay and lesbian couples I know who have done it.

I guess I feel that both things need to happen. Marriage equality must

exist (note that I do *not* say churches that don't support it need to

do it. Not at all. Their choice.) but I also want to see the law

disentangled from marriage and a more generic form of appropriate

contract law for adults in any kind of partnership established. That

would be real equality

>

> Another reason is that in the event that one parent is incapcitated,

> their partner is able to take over power of attorney for their care,

> and shared custody of children. Without a marriage certificate, these

> are all thrown into a wringer. Also, the GAO identified over 1,000

> federal laws affected by marriage status.

>

[Guest guest]

Even when legal documents are drawn up for shared property (not just real

estate) between a gay/lesbian couple, they often end up holding little value

once that person actually passes and there is a blood family member that

decides they are entitled to the person's stuff.

It may help in some cases, I can't pretend to know every case and how it

plays out, but I have known of 3 different couples who had every thing in

place they thought they needed and unfortunately when the time came that one

of them passed a family member was able to come in and contest the documents

and win. And one of the couples actually had a child (it was the lady who

died, bio child from a previous relationship but had been raised by the

couple for years) and the family was able to remove that child from a parent

it already had a bond with at a time when she lost her bio mother and take

her to live with family she'd never even met before!

If they had been permitted to marry legally, this wouldn't have happened

because by law all of her property rights and custody of the child would

have moved to the spouse and not as easily contested by extended family.

Another case I knew of was a couple who didn't have legal papers drawn up

because they were fairly young and the death wasn't something they saw

coming and like so many people, they thought they had time to worry about

that stuff. No matter how much proof anyone showed about the previous living

situation and what the deceased person would have wanted, the family was

able to come in and take everything away from her partner and literally left

her on the street! Her family wasn't supportive of her lifestyle choice, so

they weren't about to be sure that her partner was taken care of as she

would have wanted, but instead left her homeless, with out transportation

and took just about every material possession in the house that the partner

couldn't prove was hers... and by proof I mean she was told she had to not

only provide a receipt but that it was SHE who purchased it and not the

deceased partner! This was basically impossible to do, but the family of the

deceased insisted that her partner had nothing when coming to live there and

the courts just took their word for it.

Again, had they been allowed to be married in a legal sense as my husband

and I are, then this family couldn't have done this to her as easily. Not

saying it couldn't still be fought, but without a legal leg to stand on the

partners of gay and lesbian couples are really left without any recourse

against spiteful family members.

>

> This is the issue. Unfortunately many many federal laws, state laws,

> and other priviledges (like the cost of your car insurance - goes down

> when legally married!) are linked to marriage. Also there are just so

> many ways in which marriage legitamizes a couple in society. It is a

> huge thing for the gay and lesbian couples I know who have done it.

>

> I guess I feel that both things need to happen. Marriage equality must

> exist (note that I do *not* say churches that don't support it need to

> do it. Not at all. Their choice.) but I also want to see the law

> disentangled from marriage and a more generic form of appropriate

> contract law for adults in any kind of partnership established. That

> would be real equality

>

>

> >

> > Another reason is that in the event that one parent is incapcitated,

> > their partner is able to take over power of attorney for their care,

> > and shared custody of children. Without a marriage certificate, these

> > are all thrown into a wringer. Also, the GAO identified over 1,000

> > federal laws affected by marriage status.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's the kind of change I'm talking about. Like a friend of mine,

years ago asked me if anything happened to her if I would raise her

son. Her mother nearly flipped out, but my friend didn't want her

mother raising her son. In this case I would have been the better

parent but simply because of blood her mother could have fought it; it

had nothing to do with gay/straight. These are the laws that need

overhauling.

Debi

-

[Guest guest]

> That's the kind of change I'm talking about. Like a friend of mine,

> years ago asked me if anything happened to her if I would raise her

> son. Her mother nearly flipped out, but my friend didn't want her

> mother raising her son.

Wow, I hear you... I'd have no problem with my own parents raising

, but Alan's family is a whole other ball game. I'd entrust

to my friends on this list (whom I've never even met!) before I'd

want her anywhere near those crazy people.

[Guest guest]

LOL ,

My husband feels the way about my parents as you do about your in-laws!

This is a sore subject in my house, because I've been after him for us to

get something written up, but currently his parents are just plain out too

old to care for our kids and he says NO WAY to any of his sisters. I have no

siblings (that I know where they are at least - have two half siblings that

were adopted at birth and I've never met them) and while my mom is young

enough to step in - my step dad couldn't handle it I don't think, he's much

much older. But they are really our only option but he is so against it

because of the mistakes she made with me as a child... but I think she's

learned from them and would be much better with my girls than she ever was

with me... not to mention when I was growing up, financially she had it very

difficult and now they are very much secure in that way so it wouldn't be a

burden on them either.

But he's still so against it.

Of course he also knows that without having anything else set up that the

chances are great that she'd get them anyway.

Theresa

>

>

>

>

> > That's the kind of change I'm talking about. Like a friend of mine,

> > years ago asked me if anything happened to her if I would raise her

> > son. Her mother nearly flipped out, but my friend didn't want her

> > mother raising her son.

>

> Wow, I hear you... I'd have no problem with my own parents raising

> , but Alan's family is a whole other ball game. I'd entrust

> to my friends on this list (whom I've never even met!) before I'd

> want her anywhere near those crazy people.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> and why is God allowing it to happen?? can anyone tell me>>>>>>>>

I heard its so that we as a people will all get together and that

children with Autism are here to do that.

Marj