Re: [LONG] BUTTAR PROTOCOL - Mikael

[Guest guest]

Thanks Micheal, that is very helpful. Those are some

fantastic improvements in your boy, it all sounds amazing and long may it last

!!!!

If you don't mind a few further questions…Was any td-glutathione mixed in with dmps lotion?

Was checking createnine levels a MUST on the protocol? Was

there any other way of checking, apart from drawing blood? Also, were there any

external signs that the kidneys were not clearing?? Asking this because we did

another bottle of glutathione lotion recently, and although Luka did very well

on it (we have only done it 3 times so far, and saw very nice improvements each

time) during the gsh course he had quite pronounced black circles under eyes –

he always has them, but they almost doubled while on the lotion, so I stopped

it suspecting kidney detox issues. Then shortly after we went to see a doc, who

confirmed impaired kidney clearance… (he established that through ART muscle

testing).

Did you do anything else to support kidneys specifically

during the second round? Like herbs or homeopathy?.. wondering if things like

OraKidney would be helpful as well?

Tia

Natasa

> > >> > >> > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum and may be> > > better known as Manayupa> > >> > > http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-> > molliculum/dp/B000O6\> > > J22W> > > <http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-> > molliculum/dp/B000O\> > > 6J22W>> > >> > > http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html> > > <http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html>> > >> > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > >> > > sandy> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Natasa,

i believe you can test how the kidneys are clearing by a random urine

test for protein/Creatinine ratio.

Sharon.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum and

may

> be

> > > > better known as Manayupa

> > > >

> > > > http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-

> > > molliculum/dp/B000O6\

> > > > J22W

> > > > <http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-

> > > molliculum/dp/B000O\

> > > > 6J22W>

> > > >

> > > > http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html

> > > > <http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html>

> > > >

> > > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > sandy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Natasa,

I'll try my best to answer.

The TD DMPS we used was the classic Buttar one, which contains the 3 constituent elements of glutathione, but not the complete glutathione molecules.... supposed rationale is because GSH does not get into cells easily but the constituent parts of it do, allowing GSH to be formed intracellularly.

We did do Lipo GSH at the same time as TD DMPS - on the off days.

In relation to the kidney tests, the only way DW and I could agree to doing chelation was to see a top toxicologist at a London hospital. He advised us against, of course, but said that if we were to do it, then he would test creatinine every two weeks, and not every two months as per the Buttar protocool. Buttar absolutely insists on a blood test every two months for minerals as well as to check kidney and neutropenia.

During the first week on full dose TD DMPS we noticed good things, but then after two weeks, we noticed, as many others do, some negative things creeping in. He would space out and become aggitated and started having peeing accidents. Then, when his blood test came back with high creatinine Buttar asked us to stop TD immediately. After 1-2 days, starting peeing for England ... he was so thirsty and pee'd loads as if he were trying to clear something out that was irritating his kidneys. After a few days of this, he returned to his previous behaviour, and his creatinine scores fell to below the levels they were previously. This cycle repeated three times as we came down in doses, halving the dose each time. Then eventually, after the third attempt, we stopped for about 9 months (as I said in my previous mail).... but this time because of mild neutropenia that scared DW.

The reason I am elaborating on this is because, in my view, the toxicologist in London had a good point. Buttar insists on 2 month screening, but what most people on TD notice is that after about 3-6 weeks of TD DMPS, after they've gone down hill temporarily, suddenly kids start peeing loads and having problems holding it in. Then by the time of the 2 month screen, their creatinine scores would have had a chance of declining again, and hence the claim that kidney issues hardly ever arise with TD. However... during this two month period, I think the kidneys of ASD kids can come under significant strain and that it is very important not to overdo it. Some have reported that the peeing problems (control) can last for a very long time (J McC). Hence, despite our misgivings about 2 weekly blood testing at the time, we did the fortnightly testing and noticed the clear rise in creatinine.

I still think that if you are going to give TD DMPS at full dose from the beginning, then some form of kidney function test should be done every two weeks. The alternative to this, would be to start very slowly and build up...... and this is exactly what we did the second time around. (started at 4 drops every three days .... yes I did say every three days, and this was at Dr B's suggestion). We built up slowly but never got higher than 20 drops every 3 days - we saw no issues with creatinine or neutropenia this time around. We had to do the blood tests, there was no other way under Dr B's supervision to continue.

The second time around, we were also doing MB12 and MgSulp cream, as well as Dr B's CBNS protocol. It may well be that these helped with overall kidney health during chelation... I can't say. Dr B did try to get us onto a homeopathic kidney support called Mundipur, but as it contained alcohol (which inhibits methylation), we didn't follow through with this. Not sure about OraKidney.... know that Yasko likes it, but more than that I can't say.

I hope this helps.

All the best

Mikael

Re: [LONG] BUTTAR PROTOCOL - Mikael

Thanks Micheal, that is very helpful. Those are some fantastic improvements in your boy, it all sounds amazing and long may it last !!!!

If you don't mind a few further questions…

Was any td-glutathione mixed in with dmps lotion?

Was checking createnine levels a MUST on the protocol? Was there any other way of checking, apart from drawing blood? Also, were there any external signs that the kidneys were not clearing?? Asking this because we did another bottle of glutathione lotion recently, and although Luka did very well on it (we have only done it 3 times so far, and saw very nice improvements each time) during the gsh course he had quite pronounced black circles under eyes – he always has them, but they almost doubled while on the lotion, so I stopped it suspecting kidney detox issues. Then shortly after we went to see a doc, who confirmed impaired kidney clearance… (he established that through ART muscle testing).

Did you do anything else to support kidneys specifically during the second round? Like herbs or homeopathy?.. wondering if things like OraKidney would be helpful as well?

Tia

Natasa

> > >> > >> > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum and may be> > > better known as Manayupa> > >> > > http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-> > molliculum/dp/B000O6\> > > J22W> > > <http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-> > molliculum/dp/B000O\> > > 6J22W>> > >> > > http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html> > > <http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html>> > >> > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > >> > > sandy> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Many thanks Micheal, that is very helpful. May I just ask if you used

lipo gsh throughout, on both days in between dmps drops?

(do you think it at all possible that kidney markers were caused by gsh,

and not so much by dmps, or a mixture of both??)

we have not way of testing actually, so does not look like dmps is the

one for us... (but now I'm wondering if and how we should use td-gsh in

the future...)

all best

natasa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum and

may be

> > > > better known as Manayupa

> > > >

> > > > http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-

> > > molliculum/dp/B000O6\

> > > > J22W

> > > > <http://www.amazon.com/Manayupa-Body-Detox-Desmodium-

> > > molliculum/dp/B000O\

> > > > 6J22W>

> > > >

> > > > http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html

> > > > <http://www.herbalremedies.com/burbur-detox.html>

> > > >

> > > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > sandy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Natasa

We only gave GSH on the off days whilst doing the TD DMPS.

It is certainly possible that the GSH elements in the TD DMPS caused the creatinine to rise - we could not tell. However as we had used lipo GSH and TD GSH both before and after TD DMPS and seen no particular affect on creatinine (albeit more randomly tested), I do suspect that it was the DMPS - but it is only a suspicion.

Given the controversy around TD DMPS, the ups and downs we had, the general feeling from US doctors that Lead seems to play and important role in ASD especially in the UK, and the favourable affect DMSA has on GSH, I would probably favour other approaches to chelation in hindsight. We live and learn.

All the best

Mikael

Re: [LONG] BUTTAR PROTOCOL - Mikael

Many thanks Micheal, that is very helpful. May I just ask if you usedlipo gsh throughout, on both days in between dmps drops?(do you think it at all possible that kidney markers were caused by gsh,and not so much by dmps, or a mixture of both??)we have not way of testing actually, so does not look like dmps is theone for us... (but now I'm wondering if and how we should use td-gsh inthe future...)all bestnatasa> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum andmay be> > > > better known as Manayupa> > > >> > > > http://www.amazon. com/Manayupa- Body-Detox- Desmodium-> > > molliculum/dp/ B000O6\> > > > J22W> > > > <http://www.amazon. com/Manayupa- Body-Detox- Desmodium-> > > molliculum/dp/ B000O\> > > > 6J22W>> > > >> > > > http://www.herbalre medies.com/ burbur-detox. html> > > > <http://www.herbalre medies.com/ burbur-detox. html>> > > >> > > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.> > > >> > > > Best wishes,> > > >> > > > sandy> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Natasa

We only gave GSH on the off days whilst doing the TD DMPS.

It is certainly possible that the GSH elements in the TD DMPS caused the creatinine to rise - we could not tell. However as we had used lipo GSH and TD GSH both before and after TD DMPS and seen no particular affect on creatinine (albeit more randomly tested), I do suspect that it was the DMPS - but it is only a suspicion.

Given the controversy around TD DMPS, the ups and downs we had, the general feeling from US doctors that Lead seems to play and important role in ASD especially in the UK, and the favourable affect DMSA has on GSH, I would probably favour other approaches to chelation in hindsight. We live and learn.

All the best

Mikael

Re: [LONG] BUTTAR PROTOCOL - Mikael

Many thanks Micheal, that is very helpful. May I just ask if you usedlipo gsh throughout, on both days in between dmps drops?(do you think it at all possible that kidney markers were caused by gsh,and not so much by dmps, or a mixture of both??)we have not way of testing actually, so does not look like dmps is theone for us... (but now I'm wondering if and how we should use td-gsh inthe future...)all bestnatasa> > > >> > > >> > > > Sorry I don't know - but Burbur is Desmodium molliculum andmay be> > > > better known as Manayupa> > > >> > > > http://www.amazon. com/Manayupa- Body-Detox- Desmodium-> > > molliculum/dp/ B000O6\> > > > J22W> > > > <http://www.amazon. com/Manayupa- Body-Detox- Desmodium-> > > molliculum/dp/ B000O\> > > > 6J22W>> > > >> > > > http://www.herbalre medies.com/ burbur-detox. html> > > > <http://www.herbalre medies.com/ burbur-detox. html>> > > >> > > > I got the impression Nutramedix is well thought of.> > > >> > > > Best wishes,> > > >> > > > sandy> > > >> > >> >>