RE: Faith and Loneliness

[Guest guest]

Dearest Stacey...I remember the days filled with pain,

disappointment, anger and loneliness when I was

getting my divorce. All I can tell you; even though

it won't help for now, is that I had somethings to

work through before I could have a new relationship.

It was so hard but the thing that helped the most was

deciding that even though he would never bring closure

by saying I'm sorry, I could provide my own closure by

writing every hurtful thing down in a journal. Once I

was done, I felt a lightness that had been missing. I

burned it and said, " there, it is done, get on with

your life " . I thought that all I wanted was to be in a

relationship but then I realized that I couldn't bring

all that baggage into a new start. Healing yourself

takes a lot of courage and time but it seems as though

you have already started by recognizing that these

issues exist.

I also was raised Catholic and now I am " Catholic

Light " ...Lutheran. I don't believe that God gave you

RA to punish you...I think that he favored you because

there is something in your destiny that you will bring

to another one of God's children and He knew that you

were strong enough and sent you the means to

help...your illness. A little bit of Catholic guilt

is always retained whether you stay Catholic or not.

Look upon these dark days as a means to become who you

are supposed to be and be kind to yourself. You are

the loving person that that you were intended to be.

If you need someone to listen...I am herefor you and

well as everyone else; but you know that.

bintherdunit@... wrote:

> I have heard all of you talking about your faith. I

> am having a little

> trouble with mine. Let me explain. I was raised as

> a Catholic. These were

> in the days when the nuns would crack your knuckles

> and were very strict. I

> went to catechism and to mass on a regular basis. I

> was taught that God

> rewards good people and punishes bad people. This

> is where the problem is.

> I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a

> punishment of some sort.

> I really kind of feel silly for feeling this way,

> but it keeps popping up in

> my mind. I have cried while asking myself if I am

> really that bad of a

> person. I know that I am not perfect and that I was

> a handful as a teenager,

> but I have not killed anyone, abused a child, robbed

> a bank, or gone out of

> my way to inflict damage. I just don't know what to

> believe anymore. When I

> was getting my divorce, I said that my ex was going

> to catch something that

> there was no cure for and he was going to die a

> long, painful death. Look

> who got the RA.

>

> Another problem that I am having is that I am

> lonely. My ex and I separated

> 5 years ago and there has been no one in my life on

> a regular basis since. I

> know that if I got out more, I would meet more

> people. It is hard with the

> limitations of RA and many times I just hurt too

> much to go out. I don't

> drink so the bar scene is out of the question.

> Everyone says that you meet

> someone when you least expect it, but, I think 5

> years is long enough. I

> miss the comfort of having someone special to lean

> on. I miss the intimacy

> of having someone to share experiences with and to

> be there to talk to at 3

> am. Oh well, you get the point. I'm crying now.

> Been doing a lot of that

> lately. Hugs needed.

> Love and Hugs

> Stacey in PA

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

<<I was taught that God rewards good people and punishes bad people. This

is where the problem is. I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a

punishment of some sort. >>

(((((((((((((Stacey)))))))))))))

I'm not Catholic, so my viewpoint might be a little different, but I don't

think for a minute that the Lord would punish you by giving you RA. I think

as children of God, he loves each and every one of us. Because he loves us,

he's given us free agency and there are consequences to our choices. But I

can't imagine a loving God punishing us with a disease like RA. And it

certainly isn't a consequence of any choice we've made. My thought is that

it could be the adversary who inflicts this upon us, and the Lord who helps

us through it. What better way to try to undermine our faith? Alternately,

it could be that it is a trial to make us stronger or prepare us for

something else we will need to overcome. I have to admit I've pondered this

at length in the six months since my diagnosis, and I've gone through a few

months when I felt somewhat abandoned by the Lord. I try my best to live

the kind of life He would want me to live and this is what happens? It

really does seem unfair. Nonetheless, there are many things that have

happened since my diagnosis that cause me to feel sure He's with me. Faith

is hard at times, but it's so important. I know there are numerous studies

about how people who pray have better outcomes with disease.

I'm sorry you're feeling lonely. It is nice to have someone to share the

burden, I must admit. Does the Catholic church have any sort of singles

meetings? Or maybe you could try another Christian denomination. It's hard

to meet quality people, but so important to find the right person when you

have a child. My parents are divorced, and 20 years ago my Mom went to

Parents Without Partners http://www.parentswithoutpartners.org/ They have

family based activities for single adults. Maybe there are support group

meetings in your area for coping with chronic illness and you could connect

with someone who would truly understand what you have to endure. You could

help each other. Another option is becoming politically active and

volunteering in a candidate's campaign. Or my favorite idea: there are

singles groups that do volunteer work. You could find something that isn't

strenuous. I've spent a couple of mornings working with Special Olympics.

It's usually something simple like keeping score in one of the games. I

would think you could meet someone really special doing something like that.

I hope some of these ideas help.

Have a good cry, then go give Wyatt a big hug. Good things will come your

way, Stacey.

Love and hugs,

Carol

[ ] Faith and Loneliness

I have heard all of you talking about your faith. I am having a little

trouble with mine. Let me explain. I was raised as a Catholic. These were

in the days when the nuns would crack your knuckles and were very strict. I

went to catechism and to mass on a regular basis. I was taught that God

rewards good people and punishes bad people. This is where the problem is.

I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a punishment of some sort.

I really kind of feel silly for feeling this way, but it keeps popping up in

my mind. I have cried while asking myself if I am really that bad of a

person. I know that I am not perfect and that I was a handful as a

teenager,

but I have not killed anyone, abused a child, robbed a bank, or gone out of

my way to inflict damage. I just don't know what to believe anymore. When

I

was getting my divorce, I said that my ex was going to catch something that

there was no cure for and he was going to die a long, painful death. Look

who got the RA.

Another problem that I am having is that I am lonely. My ex and I separated

5 years ago and there has been no one in my life on a regular basis since.

I

know that if I got out more, I would meet more people. It is hard with the

limitations of RA and many times I just hurt too much to go out. I don't

drink so the bar scene is out of the question. Everyone says that you meet

someone when you least expect it, but, I think 5 years is long enough. I

miss the comfort of having someone special to lean on. I miss the intimacy

of having someone to share experiences with and to be there to talk to at 3

am. Oh well, you get the point. I'm crying now. Been doing a lot of that

lately. Hugs needed.

Love and Hugs

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Stacey, I'm sending you some of the big hugs you need first before I say

anything else. I sincerely hope you do continue to ask for comfort from

me and everyone here and realize that we do very much care about you.

You matter to us. I'm really sorry that you have so many difficult

issues to come to terms with and that you're hurting so profoundly. I

hope that we can help you feel better about things.

I was also raised Catholic - a church-going and church-serving family,

Catholic schools grade school through college, predominantly Catholic

friends, and even a bishop in the family (oy vey!). I'm a little bit

older than you (43), and I grew up in the same insanely strict, unkind,

and unreasonable era of Catholic education and culture. I know the kind

of guilt and even fear that such an upbringing can unfairly saddle you

with.

I urge you to free yourself from that harmful Catholic baggage by

realizing that, although there are many wonderful, loving, caring,

positive individuals who are part of the Church, the damaging

experiences and ideas that remain with you and bring you down have

nothing to do directly with God, they are the result of misguided

actions and strange inventions and conventions of fallible people.

My divorce is only a little more than a year old. I have three children

(18, 15, and 10) and I decided to end my marriage. It was a very

difficult journey and it took me a few years to come to that conclusion.

I'm also the oldest kid in the family. Talk about guilt and

second-guessing myself. It hasn't been easy, but I know that I needed to

do what I did for both me and my children, despite being instructed all

of my life that I should never do such a thing. Such a sinner!

Enough of that though. Back to the idea of God doling out punishments or

rewards. I just don't believe that stuff. I absolutely cannot accept

that a loving God would, under any circumstances, give you RA. Period.

I know you've heard that awful concept in various forms - most everyone

here has, Catholic or not. But, again, I believe that kind of notion is

born of man, not God. Not only isn't it a very constructive idea, it's

quite destructive.

Imagine a baby born with some terrible, painful illness and dying

several days later after suffering greatly. What could a child possibly

have done to deserve such a fate? Nothing. If anyone wishes to explain

it by offering " the sins of the father are visited upon the son, " I'll

reject that, too. This could get me going on the original sin concept

and that would be pages and pages. Then again, if you by chance are

having trouble sleeping, I should keep typing.

Many of those extreme things we've been told time and again as we grew

up were meant to coerce us, to force us to behave. Do these things

you've been told you should do or else! And don't forget to put a big

check or wad of cash in the collection basket. God knows exactly how

much you can afford. Shame and hell loom large in the Catholic world.

OK, I'll stop this part of my ramble before I get struck by lightning or

excommunicated.

Have you ever heard of or read Rabbi Harold Kushner's book " When Bad

Things Happen to Good People " ? He's more level-headed about all of this

than I am. Here's part of what he says in his chapter " No Exceptions for

Nice People " :

" I don't know why one person gets sick, and another does not, but I can

only assume that some natural laws which we don't understand are at

work. I cannot believe that God " sends " illness to a specific person for

a specific reason. I don't believe in a God who has a weekly quota of

malignant tumors to distribute, and consults His computer to find out

who deserves one most or who could handle it best. " What did I do to

deserve this? " is an understandable outcry from a sick and suffering

person, but it is really the wrong question. Being sick or being healthy

is not a matter of what God decides that we deserve. The better question

is " if this has happened to me, what do I do now, and who is there to

help me do it? " As we saw in the previous chapter, it becomes much

easier to take God seriously as the source of moral values if we don't

hold Him responsible for all the unfair things that happen in the

world. "

Now switching gears to men: they are out there. I guarantee it. Carol

had a lot of great suggestions. Many people meet via email. Too, let's

hope that the Remicade helps you feel well enough to go out more often.

It's not an unreasonable expectation at all. Find something you love to

do and try to do it with others. How about a jigsaw puzzle contest or

club? A book group. Take a course at a nearby college. Go listen to

music at a local coffee shop. Check out the library. Shop or take a

class at Home Depot. Swim at the Y. Volunteer for the Arthritis

Foundation. Make the first move if you meet someone you like. Sometimes

guys are intimidated or assume that you are already spoken for.

With love and hope for a happier future,

[ ] Faith and Loneliness

> I have heard all of you talking about your faith. I am having a

little

> trouble with mine. Let me explain. I was raised as a Catholic.

These were

> in the days when the nuns would crack your knuckles and were very

strict. I

> went to catechism and to mass on a regular basis. I was taught that

God

> rewards good people and punishes bad people. This is where the

problem is.

> I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a punishment of some

sort.

> I really kind of feel silly for feeling this way, but it keeps popping

up in

> my mind. I have cried while asking myself if I am really that bad of

a

> person. I know that I am not perfect and that I was a handful as a

teenager,

> but I have not killed anyone, abused a child, robbed a bank, or gone

out of

> my way to inflict damage. I just don't know what to believe anymore.

When I

> was getting my divorce, I said that my ex was going to catch something

that

> there was no cure for and he was going to die a long, painful death.

Look

> who got the RA.

>

> Another problem that I am having is that I am lonely. My ex and I

separated

> 5 years ago and there has been no one in my life on a regular basis

since. I

> know that if I got out more, I would meet more people. It is hard

with the

> limitations of RA and many times I just hurt too much to go out. I

don't

> drink so the bar scene is out of the question. Everyone says that you

meet

> someone when you least expect it, but, I think 5 years is long enough.

I

> miss the comfort of having someone special to lean on. I miss the

intimacy

> of having someone to share experiences with and to be there to talk to

at 3

> am. Oh well, you get the point. I'm crying now. Been doing a lot of

that

> lately. Hugs needed.

> Love and Hugs

> Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Re: [ ] Faith and Loneliness

Stacey, I'm sending you some of the big hugs you need first before I say

anything else. I sincerely hope you do continue to ask for comfort from

me and everyone here and realize that we do very much care about you.

You matter to us. I'm really sorry that you have so many difficult

issues to come to terms with and that you're hurting so profoundly. I

hope that we can help you feel better about things.

I was also raised Catholic - a church-going and church-serving family,

Catholic schools grade school through college, predominantly Catholic

friends, and even a bishop in the family (oy vey!). I'm a little bit

older than you (43), and I grew up in the same insanely strict, unkind,

and unreasonable era of Catholic education and culture. I know the kind

of guilt and even fear that such an upbringing can unfairly saddle you

with.

I urge you to free yourself from that harmful Catholic baggage by

realizing that, although there are many wonderful, loving, caring,

positive individuals who are part of the Church, the damaging

experiences and ideas that remain with you and bring you down have

nothing to do directly with God, they are the result of misguided

actions and strange inventions and conventions of fallible people.

My divorce is only a little more than a year old. I have three children

(18, 15, and 10) and I decided to end my marriage. It was a very

difficult journey and it took me a few years to come to that conclusion.

I'm also the oldest kid in the family. Talk about guilt and

second-guessing myself. It hasn't been easy, but I know that I needed to

do what I did for both me and my children, despite being instructed all

of my life that I should never do such a thing. Such a sinner!

Enough of that though. Back to the idea of God doling out punishments or

rewards. I just don't believe that stuff. I absolutely cannot accept

that a loving God would, under any circumstances, give you RA. Period.

I know you've heard that awful concept in various forms - most everyone

here has, Catholic or not. But, again, I believe that kind of notion is

born of man, not God. Not only isn't it a very constructive idea, it's

quite destructive.

Imagine a baby born with some terrible, painful illness and dying

several days later after suffering greatly. What could a child possibly

have done to deserve such a fate? Nothing. If anyone wishes to explain

it by offering " the sins of the father are visited upon the son, " I'll

reject that, too. This could get me going on the original sin concept

and that would be pages and pages. Then again, if you by chance are

having trouble sleeping, I should keep typing.

Many of those extreme things we've been told time and again as we grew

up were meant to coerce us, to force us to behave. Do these things

you've been told you should do or else! And don't forget to put a big

check or wad of cash in the collection basket. God knows exactly how

much you can afford. Shame and hell loom large in the Catholic world.

OK, I'll stop this part of my ramble before I get struck by lightning or

excommunicated.

Have you ever heard of or read Rabbi Harold Kushner's book " When Bad

Things Happen to Good People " ? He's more level-headed about all of this

than I am. Here's part of what he says in his chapter " No Exceptions for

Nice People " :

" I don't know why one person gets sick, and another does not, but I can

only assume that some natural laws which we don't understand are at

work. I cannot believe that God " sends " illness to a specific person for

a specific reason. I don't believe in a God who has a weekly quota of

malignant tumors to distribute, and consults His computer to find out

who deserves one most or who could handle it best. " What did I do to

deserve this? " is an understandable outcry from a sick and suffering

person, but it is really the wrong question. Being sick or being healthy

is not a matter of what God decides that we deserve. The better question

is " if this has happened to me, what do I do now, and who is there to

help me do it? " As we saw in the previous chapter, it becomes much

easier to take God seriously as the source of moral values if we don't

hold Him responsible for all the unfair things that happen in the

world. "

Now switching gears to men: they are out there. I guarantee it. Carol

had a lot of great suggestions. Many people meet via email. Too, let's

hope that the Remicade helps you feel well enough to go out more often.

It's not an unreasonable expectation at all. Find something you love to

do and try to do it with others. How about a jigsaw puzzle contest or

club? A book group. Take a course at a nearby college. Go listen to

music at a local coffee shop. Check out the library. Shop or take a

class at Home Depot. Swim at the Y. Volunteer for the Arthritis

Foundation. Make the first move if you meet someone you like. Sometimes

guys are intimidated or assume that you are already spoken for.

With love and hope for a happier future,

[ ] Faith and Loneliness

> I have heard all of you talking about your faith. I am having a

little

> trouble with mine. Let me explain. I was raised as a Catholic.

These were

> in the days when the nuns would crack your knuckles and were very

strict. I

> went to catechism and to mass on a regular basis. I was taught that

God

> rewards good people and punishes bad people. This is where the

problem is.

> I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a punishment of some

sort.

> I really kind of feel silly for feeling this way, but it keeps popping

up in

> my mind. I have cried while asking myself if I am really that bad of

a

> person. I know that I am not perfect and that I was a handful as a

teenager,

> but I have not killed anyone, abused a child, robbed a bank, or gone

out of

> my way to inflict damage. I just don't know what to believe anymore.

When I

> was getting my divorce, I said that my ex was going to catch something

that

> there was no cure for and he was going to die a long, painful death.

Look

> who got the RA.

>

> Another problem that I am having is that I am lonely. My ex and I

separated

> 5 years ago and there has been no one in my life on a regular basis

since. I

> know that if I got out more, I would meet more people. It is hard

with the

> limitations of RA and many times I just hurt too much to go out. I

don't

> drink so the bar scene is out of the question. Everyone says that you

meet

> someone when you least expect it, but, I think 5 years is long enough.

I

> miss the comfort of having someone special to lean on. I miss the

intimacy

> of having someone to share experiences with and to be there to talk to

at 3

> am. Oh well, you get the point. I'm crying now. Been doing a lot of

that

> lately. Hugs needed.

> Love and Hugs

> Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

((((((((((((((((((((Stacey)))))))))))))))))))))))

I am sending you a huge cyber-hug. My love and thoughts are with you.

It's interesting that you mention faith. I was brought up by a mother

who was an agnostic which is surprising considering she is 100%

Greek. She was Greek orthodox, but when her dad died when she was 9,

her mother became schizophrenic when she was in her early teens, and

she lost her older brother to cancer, she lost her faith, which I can

understand. The interesting thing is she is the most compassionate

person anyone could ever meet and would do anything for you.

Because I was not raised religiously, I found out about it on my own.

I went to a Jesuit University, Loyola, and became very interested in

religion and moral theology. Than, in 1995 when I was sick with

pneumonia, I had what can only be described as a religious

experience. It's going to sound maybe corny to some, but for a brief

instance I felt like I was in the presence of God and knew that the

answers to everything lie ahead. The peace that I felt for that brief

instant has left a lasting impression on me. That was just the tip of

the iceberg healthwise and I almost wonder if God was preparing me.

Believe me, it's kind of hard to put this down because I have been on

the receiving end of some very strange looks and snide comments when

I say that. I take it for what I believed it to be.

I do know that our faith and hope is tested all the time. And,

unfortunately, bad things happen to good people but I do believe

everything happens for a reason. And no, you are a great and

wonderful person who has a lot going for her. The inspiration and

encouragement you provide, as well as the laughs and smiles, make us

all better people for knowing you.

I am sorry that you are lonely, but please know that I love and care

for you. I am very fortunate to have you as a friend and have faith

that things will be better.

Try to hang in there, Stacey.

With love,

Al

[Guest guest]

[ ] Re: Faith and Loneliness

((((((((((((((((((((Stacey)))))))))))))))))))))))

I am sending you a huge cyber-hug. My love and thoughts are with you.

It's interesting that you mention faith. I was brought up by a mother

who was an agnostic which is surprising considering she is 100%

Greek. She was Greek orthodox, but when her dad died when she was 9,

her mother became schizophrenic when she was in her early teens, and

she lost her older brother to cancer, she lost her faith, which I can

understand. The interesting thing is she is the most compassionate

person anyone could ever meet and would do anything for you.

Because I was not raised religiously, I found out about it on my own.

I went to a Jesuit University, Loyola, and became very interested in

religion and moral theology. Than, in 1995 when I was sick with

pneumonia, I had what can only be described as a religious

experience. It's going to sound maybe corny to some, but for a brief

instance I felt like I was in the presence of God and knew that the

answers to everything lie ahead. The peace that I felt for that brief

instant has left a lasting impression on me. That was just the tip of

the iceberg healthwise and I almost wonder if God was preparing me.

Believe me, it's kind of hard to put this down because I have been on

the receiving end of some very strange looks and snide comments when

I say that. I take it for what I believed it to be.

I do know that our faith and hope is tested all the time. And,

unfortunately, bad things happen to good people but I do believe

everything happens for a reason. And no, you are a great and

wonderful person who has a lot going for her. The inspiration and

encouragement you provide, as well as the laughs and smiles, make us

all better people for knowing you.

I am sorry that you are lonely, but please know that I love and care

for you. I am very fortunate to have you as a friend and have faith

that things will be better.

Try to hang in there, Stacey.

With love,

Al

[Guest guest]

Stacey,

This is a tough one-the faith thing. I was also raised Catholic-even went

to Catholic Elementary school with the nuns who freely used the " golden

ruler " . After I was married my husband and I converted to the Church of

Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and accepting this and all my other

ailments has been a lot easier. There have been times when I know that I

survived through the power of God. I look at it all from a different

perspective. This time on earth is not meant to be a free ride and everyone

has their own suffering be it mental, physical or emotional. We are here

as a test so to say and how we handle it will determine our next step so

when I am in a good place mentally, I look at all that I go through as being

that the Lord loves me a lot and if I endure and thrive then I have

succeeded. Hey I know this sounds crazy but think about how strong the

people on this list seem in their emails. We may not be strong physically

but that's not all there is to life. We can survive and thrive. It is not

easy but it is worth it and every once in awhile the miracle occurs, like my

knee and hip or further back I had a stroke which should have killed me but

didn't. The Lord loves all his children and will bless them. Some people

were talking about the blessings of this illness, that's a tough one but I

guess there are some. Backing up-after the stroke (hemorrhage) followed by

craniotomy and the year from hell, I was in a rehab hospital with other

stroke survivors. Well from that experience I came to be more tolerant and

accepting of people who are different. In fact I help a woman who is a

multiple personality due to severe abuse as a child and she is constantly

amazed that I love her even though. The line I use is that " I was in there

and couldn't get out " so I understand that others are too. As far as that

and my other ailments ( 8 abdominal surgeries, 1 craniotomy, knee and hip

replacement) in 8 years, my friends and acquaintances hold me up as an

example and at Church they call me the Ward Miracle. You are all miracles.

The fact that we take charge of our lives and don't wallow in our illness

makes us miracles and shows how God helps us. After my stroke something

that stuck in my mind was what the neurosurgeon said " Everyone recovers to a

point but only those who have a reason go further " We all have a reason and

we all support each other. This is a great group.

I could go on about all the disasters in the world but won't. Why do bad

things happen to good people?

There is a bond here and it is good. Don't blame God, He loves you.

Temple

3 Fox Haven Way

Chelmsford, MA 01824

dat2352@...

[Guest guest]

stacey, i know just how you feel. i tend to think i got this from all my

partying i did as a teen. also quite a handful. i have been alone for 10

years this january. my family tells me that i just don't want to do things.

right. i am childless until atleast midnight. even had talked to someone

about meeting, but now i have been getting dizzy spells for the past 2 days.

don't know if i'm getting the flu (how can you tell?) or my friend that was

in town a couple weeks ago tells me she had a sinus infection. also could be

because i ran out of my zyrtec a couple days ago. all i know is it's a

beautiful saturday night in chicago. air and water show, arlington million,

my son is out and i'm gonna lay around and feel like crap because i want

to!!! i have wasted so much time on these internet dating things. you spend

forever getting your ad in and then ohhh you want to write someone. that'l

cost you $35 a month!! seems the phone date lines they are all just looking

for a " casual " thing. which is ok, but still...... i was never really raised

on faith. sure my parents would take us, drop us off. clean or relax, come

back and get us. so it always just seemed like another way to get rid of us.

neither my sister or i ( and she is the great one, y'know!!! ) got into

church. so my socializing is really limited. sorry i'm not feeling well so i

am not happy with that. it is harder now that my son is older. not like i can

set up a sleep over at a friends anymore and i really look forward to

childless eves. not in and out!!! wahhhh kathy in il

[Guest guest]

" Imagine a baby born with some terrible, painful

illness and dying several days later after suffering

greatly. What could a child possibly have done to

deserve such a fate? Nothing. If anyone wishes to

explain it by offering " the sins of the father are

visited upon the son, " I'll reject that, too. "

: This comment of yours hit a nerve in me - my

first baby, my now 18 year old son, was born almost 3

months prematurely with a severe heart defect. At the

time of his birth, I wondered why my baby? Why are we

given this child to care for? My mom, a religious

woman, would always say that God does not give us more

than we can handle. Like others have said, at times I

felt he was knocking at the wrong door but we did

handle it. My son had his first heart surgery at 2

weeks of age (2 pounds of weight!), almost died during

surgery, but came through. He had a tracheostomy for

a laryngeal defect when he was almost 4 years old and

had this for two years - learned more nursing care

than I ever wanted to! When he was almost 6 he

underwent another surgery to make him a new windpipe

from a piece of a rib and got rid of the tracheostomy

just in time for his major open heart surgery when he

was 6 years old. All this time, I kept asking, why

would a loving God such as my mom believed in do this

to a little child? She would always answer that there

is a reason to it, we don't know always what the

purpose is, but it is there in His wisdom. Oh, to

have that kind of faith. Anyway, he thrived after the

surgery, but even as shortly as last summer underwent

an emergency surgery to repair a blockage in his

intestine that the doctors said was probably there

since birth - another birth defect - and again he

almost died. All of his life, he too has asked me,

why me, mom? I have no answer for him - I can only

say what my mom used to tell me, that there must be a

reason we are not privy to yet, but there is a reason

he and us have gone through all these things - he must

be a very special person to have survived all he has

been through and there has to be something very

important that he needs to do in this world. He is a

wonderful young man, very sensitive and compassionate,

and he has definately been formed by all that he has

gone through - he has a heart of gold. I truly hope

that this is true - he has suffered so much - and as

many of you know to see your child suffer is worse a

million times than your own suffering.

Man, have I rambled on. All these posts about

spirituality have been so interesting and you people

are the strongest souls - to have gone through so much

and still have faith. My faith was again severely

tested when my mom died of colon cancer 5 years ago -

someone so religious and good and loved and needed by

her family should suffer such a death when cruel and

angry people who commit crimes should live? It's been

very hard but I can only remember what she told me all

my life about everything having a purpose..... I have

never been a person to attend church - I kind of have

my own brand of Native American, Wiccan, Astrological

Christianity - take a little from this and a little

from that and find what works for me. But I do

believe there is a higher power - and spirit guides

and angels too! - and I just have to trust that it is

all going to be clear someday and we will understand

the greater plan in our lives. Hope that makes some

sense -

Kathe in CA

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Stacey:

((((((((((((((((((((hugs to you kiddo)))))))))))))))))

So sorry that you are feeling so sad right now - it is

hard to be by yourself but you have us and we care a

great deal for you and Wyatt. You have shown yourself

to be a very strong, loving person, and a terrific

mother. You were not given RA as a punishment - none

of us were given these diseases as a punishment - it

just is, no real way to explain the why of it. Why do

some people seem to have lives full of suffering and

others just skate through? There are no answers - at

least none that we can comprehend at this time. Maybe

when we go over to the other side, we will see the big

picture and know that all that we went through wasn't

for nothing. At least I hope not! Carol had some

very good ideas for you to perhaps meet someone -

parents without partners sounds like a good place to

start. Hang in there and remember we are all there

with you in spirit if not in person - reach out and we

are there to hold your hand and cyber hug you.

Kathe in CA

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is so nice what you wrote. I come from the same background and when

I divorced my husband, it was a long time before it was accepted in my

family, if it ever was. But now five years later I believe this isn't a God

anywhere that would want a person to stay with a not so nice spouse. My ex

was just nasty and didn't care about us. Now when ask my answer is if you

didn't live with him don't pass judgment on me for the divorce. I am lonely

but it is better than what I had and my kids are better off. My ex is the

only person I ever dated, I was eighteen when we met. So as much as I would

like to have a relationship with someone, I don't know how to go about

finding someone. Not a bar person. I agree we need to leave the Catholic

baggage behind.

Lynn (MeMom)

wrote:

> Stacey, I'm sending you some of the big hugs you need first before I say

> anything else. I sincerely hope you do continue to ask for comfort from

> me and everyone here and realize that we do very much care about you.

> You matter to us. I'm really sorry that you have so many difficult

> issues to come to terms with and that you're hurting so profoundly. I

> hope that we can help you feel better about things.

>

> I was also raised Catholic - a church-going and church-serving family,

> Catholic schools grade school through college, predominantly Catholic

> friends, and even a bishop in the family (oy vey!). I'm a little bit

> older than you (43), and I grew up in the same insanely strict, unkind,

> and unreasonable era of Catholic education and culture. I know the kind

> of guilt and even fear that such an upbringing can unfairly saddle you

> with.

>

> I urge you to free yourself from that harmful Catholic baggage by

> realizing that, although there are many wonderful, loving, caring,

> positive individuals who are part of the Church, the damaging

> experiences and ideas that remain with you and bring you down have

> nothing to do directly with God, they are the result of misguided

> actions and strange inventions and conventions of fallible people.

>

> My divorce is only a little more than a year old. I have three children

> (18, 15, and 10) and I decided to end my marriage. It was a very

> difficult journey and it took me a few years to come to that conclusion.

> I'm also the oldest kid in the family. Talk about guilt and

> second-guessing myself. It hasn't been easy, but I know that I needed to

> do what I did for both me and my children, despite being instructed all

> of my life that I should never do such a thing. Such a sinner!

>

> Enough of that though. Back to the idea of God doling out punishments or

> rewards. I just don't believe that stuff. I absolutely cannot accept

> that a loving God would, under any circumstances, give you RA. Period.

> I know you've heard that awful concept in various forms - most everyone

> here has, Catholic or not. But, again, I believe that kind of notion is

> born of man, not God. Not only isn't it a very constructive idea, it's

> quite destructive.

>

> Imagine a baby born with some terrible, painful illness and dying

> several days later after suffering greatly. What could a child possibly

> have done to deserve such a fate? Nothing. If anyone wishes to explain

> it by offering " the sins of the father are visited upon the son, " I'll

> reject that, too. This could get me going on the original sin concept

> and that would be pages and pages. Then again, if you by chance are

> having trouble sleeping, I should keep typing.

>

> Many of those extreme things we've been told time and again as we grew

> up were meant to coerce us, to force us to behave. Do these things

> you've been told you should do or else! And don't forget to put a big

> check or wad of cash in the collection basket. God knows exactly how

> much you can afford. Shame and hell loom large in the Catholic world.

> OK, I'll stop this part of my ramble before I get struck by lightning or

> excommunicated.

>

> Have you ever heard of or read Rabbi Harold Kushner's book " When Bad

> Things Happen to Good People " ? He's more level-headed about all of this

> than I am. Here's part of what he says in his chapter " No Exceptions for

> Nice People " :

>

> " I don't know why one person gets sick, and another does not, but I can

> only assume that some natural laws which we don't understand are at

> work. I cannot believe that God " sends " illness to a specific person for

> a specific reason. I don't believe in a God who has a weekly quota of

> malignant tumors to distribute, and consults His computer to find out

> who deserves one most or who could handle it best. " What did I do to

> deserve this? " is an understandable outcry from a sick and suffering

> person, but it is really the wrong question. Being sick or being healthy

> is not a matter of what God decides that we deserve. The better question

> is " if this has happened to me, what do I do now, and who is there to

> help me do it? " As we saw in the previous chapter, it becomes much

> easier to take God seriously as the source of moral values if we don't

> hold Him responsible for all the unfair things that happen in the

> world. "

>

> Now switching gears to men: they are out there. I guarantee it. Carol

> had a lot of great suggestions. Many people meet via email. Too, let's

> hope that the Remicade helps you feel well enough to go out more often.

> It's not an unreasonable expectation at all. Find something you love to

> do and try to do it with others. How about a jigsaw puzzle contest or

> club? A book group. Take a course at a nearby college. Go listen to

> music at a local coffee shop. Check out the library. Shop or take a

> class at Home Depot. Swim at the Y. Volunteer for the Arthritis

> Foundation. Make the first move if you meet someone you like. Sometimes

> guys are intimidated or assume that you are already spoken for.

>

> With love and hope for a happier future,

>

>

>

> [ ] Faith and Loneliness

>

> > I have heard all of you talking about your faith. I am having a

> little

> > trouble with mine. Let me explain. I was raised as a Catholic.

> These were

> > in the days when the nuns would crack your knuckles and were very

> strict. I

> > went to catechism and to mass on a regular basis. I was taught that

> God

> > rewards good people and punishes bad people. This is where the

> problem is.

> > I feel like my having RA is terrible and must be a punishment of some

> sort.

> > I really kind of feel silly for feeling this way, but it keeps popping

> up in

> > my mind. I have cried while asking myself if I am really that bad of

> a

> > person. I know that I am not perfect and that I was a handful as a

> teenager,

> > but I have not killed anyone, abused a child, robbed a bank, or gone

> out of

> > my way to inflict damage. I just don't know what to believe anymore.

> When I

> > was getting my divorce, I said that my ex was going to catch something

> that

> > there was no cure for and he was going to die a long, painful death.

> Look

> > who got the RA.

> >

> > Another problem that I am having is that I am lonely. My ex and I

> separated

> > 5 years ago and there has been no one in my life on a regular basis

> since. I

> > know that if I got out more, I would meet more people. It is hard

> with the

> > limitations of RA and many times I just hurt too much to go out. I

> don't

> > drink so the bar scene is out of the question. Everyone says that you

> meet

> > someone when you least expect it, but, I think 5 years is long enough.

> I

> > miss the comfort of having someone special to lean on. I miss the

> intimacy

> > of having someone to share experiences with and to be there to talk to

> at 3

> > am. Oh well, you get the point. I'm crying now. Been doing a lot of

> that

> > lately. Hugs needed.

> > Love and Hugs

> > Stacey in PA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

((((((((((((((Kathy)))))))))))))) I'm sorry you're having a tough day

today. I'm alone tonight, too, and not enjoying it. I hope you're not

coming down with the flu. It is hard to distinguish between the flu and RA

symptoms sometimes. It could very well be allergies from running out of the

Zyrtec.

I wouldn't worry too much about your family thinking you just don't want to

do things. People who have never experienced chronic pain can't really

relate to the daily battle we often face. You know the truth.

We're not alone tonight, Kathy, because we're going through it together.

Love and hugs,

Carol

Re: [ ] Faith and Loneliness

stacey, i know just how you feel. i tend to think i got this from all my

partying i did as a teen. also quite a handful. i have been alone for 10

years this january. my family tells me that i just don't want to do things.

right. i am childless until atleast midnight. even had talked to someone

about meeting, but now i have been getting dizzy spells for the past 2 days.

don't know if i'm getting the flu (how can you tell?) or my friend that was

in town a couple weeks ago tells me she had a sinus infection. also could

be

because i ran out of my zyrtec a couple days ago. all i know is it's a

beautiful saturday night in chicago. air and water show, arlington million,

my son is out and i'm gonna lay around and feel like crap because i want

to!!! i have wasted so much time on these internet dating things. you spend

forever getting your ad in and then ohhh you want to write someone. that'l

cost you $35 a month!! seems the phone date lines they are all just looking

for a " casual " thing. which is ok, but still...... i was never really raised

on faith. sure my parents would take us, drop us off. clean or relax, come

back and get us. so it always just seemed like another way to get rid of us.

neither my sister or i ( and she is the great one, y'know!!! ) got into

church. so my socializing is really limited. sorry i'm not feeling well so i

am not happy with that. it is harder now that my son is older. not like i

can

set up a sleep over at a friends anymore and i really look forward to

childless eves. not in and out!!! wahhhh kathy in il

[Guest guest]

June, that's so nice to hear about the way something so sad as giving up

your job actually turned out to be such a blessing. Nothing is more

important than family, and how great that you are able to have such an

important role in your grandsons' lives.

I hope you have a great time this week!

Love and hugs,

Carol

[ ] Faith and Loneliness

Great post ,you said it all so well. Sometimes you can be alone in a

crowd and loneliness is always difficult to deal with on top of relentless

pain. I personally would rather be alone,then in a bad marriage.

Carol asked if and how our life changed with the onset of the disease. My

life was in the corporate world where I had a career I loved and was driven

by ambition. At the age of 56 my life changed forever. The saddest day was

the one when I left my office for the last time and said goodbye to all the

employees who I had shared more than 30 years with. It took me 3 years to

even consider there could be a life with RA. What a change! My youngest son

moved two doors away and I began to babysit my grandsons who were 5 yrs old

and 10 yrs old. They filled my life with a joy I could never imagine. Here I

was doing for them what I had never had time to do for my own 2 sons. They

moved an hour away last year at the ages of 16 and 22 but we have such a

close bond that keeps them either phoning or visiting 3-4 times a week. My

life began to be filled with hockey games,football,baseball,soccer and PTA

meetings. Craig played 2 yrs of elite baseball which meant travelling all

over Canada and the States. We were in our element since we the took on the

job of travelling with him. For these years my focus was on the boys rather

than the RA and I am eternally grateful to be given this opportunity. My

computer room is covered in pictures of all 4 grandsons and I can look

around,see their pictures and smile as I recall the countless memories we

shared. I am a very different person than I once was so RA brought me

blessings that far outweigh the devastation that the disease brought.

All of you,don't ever give up hope of better days to come,they really will.

My foot is still a problem because I can't put a shoe on but two of my

patient partners and I are going to a cottage for the week,some of it will

be spent in studying a new type of MSK screening intended for GPs starting

in September.. I will go no mail tonight some time and will miss you all.

Will be in touch as soon as I get back.

Hugs

June

[Guest guest]

thanks carol. i think it was the zyrtec. i feel better today. of coarse it

was a beautiful day here in chicagoland. ready for this. i had a single man

wander into my yard today!!!!! he was looking at the home next door. so i

might just have a new neighbor!! kathy in il : )

[Guest guest]

Thank you , for all the kind words. You have given me a lot of good

things to think about. It is hard for those thoughts to stay out of your

head when you have been " programmed " to think that way for so long. It is

something that I really have to work on. I am sorry to hear of all the

trials that you have gone through, but I am glad that you ended up here to

help me. It gives me great comfort to have such supportive friends like you.

Love ya

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy in IL,

Sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. I like to lay around and just

feel bad sometimes too. Well, I really don't like it, but sometimes it's

just easier. I hope you feel better soon.

Hugs

Stacey in PA

[Guest guest]

<< i had a single man

wander into my yard today!!!!!>>

Kathy, that's great. I remember I used to tell my Mom that she had to go

out and meet men, they wouldn't just come to her. I guess that's not

necessarily true after all!

I'm glad you're feeling better. It was a beautiful day here in Fl, too.

Love and hugs,

Carol

Re: [ ] Faith and Loneliness

thanks carol. i think it was the zyrtec. i feel better today. of coarse it

was a beautiful day here in chicagoland. ready for this. i had a single man

wander into my yard today!!!!! he was looking at the home next door. so i

might just have a new neighbor!! kathy in il : )

[Guest guest]

thanks carol, i was a little stiff and sore this morning as the storms moved

thru. but i am feeling better. pretty sure it was just from the lack of

zyrtec. kathy in il