Pain = Love = Pain [which is which]

[Guest guest]

I've gone back, reading and re-reading some of the various posts...the

personal request, the deeper askings that seem to be there, just under

the surface. While a letter can reveal so much to me, and I can did

deeper still, and try to pull more information forward for better

understanding [yeah, if i don't know the answer, I " google it " ...hehe,

and ya thought I was just that smart already....not] [and where it is

possible, I dig though email links and myspace pages, blogs and read the

writings of others....the deeper thoughts].

But that is not where things come from entirely. In the letters, in the

request, the words used, the sentences, the phrases, are all " keys " ,

sent up from a deeper place of being, from the place needing the

attention. From the place that is, or leads to, the " root " .

It is the " space " between the words, in between the lines, that tell the

story...that hold the " emotion " . This is where empathy enters in.

So, I try here to cover, at least in part, some of the " issues " I've

been seeing. Since it covers a range of them, across several letters and

request, it is not directed to any one. That way I am free to address

" cause " , and point to " effect " , and some of which may directly address

the needed thing for one, while, something else, addresses yet another.

Just because there is one, doesn't mean there is the other....use what

fits, leave the rest...........confused yet? Let's try....

It has been used that " love = pain " , and it has been said that " pain =

love " . Let's take these TWO THINGS first.

First, these are two completely different things altogether. Yes, I've

lost my mind, it gives me a little leyway to step out on limbs,

something I'm good at. I question, then I question the questioning, and

then the questionaire...[what?]

Ok, let's take this thing apart... " love = pain " . Here we are vunerable.

We have, in some way, learned that to love, means to experience pain.

Maybe it was our mother giving to our father, sacrificing everything,

including herself, her happiness, for a man, who didn't return that

loving, that giving, who maybe didn't understand how....but kids don't

think on those lines so much...they see the giving, and then they see

the tears...love equals pain...giving equals pain. Any examples they,

we, have seen, is that when love was given, somehow, the result was the

return of pain.

It doesn't matter that later, we look for love, marry, raise families,

or other wise try to give, the result bubbles up, if even from our own

subconsciously arranged set up, to expect pain as the result...to make

way, or cause for it. Now, this is not to blame. There is no blame...I'm

pointing merely to potential cause and effect. We may not knowingly do

this, but we experience the " same things " .

We all somehow, at some point ask ourselves questions like, " why do we

keep attracting the same kind of guy, or girl, or relationship, or

situation " ? It could be a business we start, having grand ideas, pouring

our heart and soul into it, and, at some point, and maybe just when it

looks like we may finally succeed at something, we sabatoge ourselves in

one or more ways. Why? Because there is a root cause at work. A cause,

that when found, says, " money is bad, success is bad, money is the root

of all evil, succeeding in this world means your taking from others. "

That's just a few, but maybe your getting the picture.

" The Thing = The Result " . We have linked up something having no merit or

meaning to something else. Once again, usually associating this when in

some emotional state. And when it keeps happening, we make that stronger

within us. It becomes over powering. If you smoke, it is from, not the

attraction and addition to nicotine as is so commonly said...it's a

factor.....but we link it with being cool, or, it calms me, it helps me

think. And what do you do a lot of? Think Want To Be Calm? You

" re-enforce " the very thing you would want to be rid of.

Now, let's coss over... " pain = love " . This is a different issue. When

you want to see how something works, take it apart. We have linked, that

to " get love " , we must first experience the pain. This is generally

created by " force " . be it by molestation, regardless of via body, or

mind....and it's rarely a separate thing...we are forced to accept

" something " . We are violated, molested, taken, controled. It is in our

nature to fight off such an intrusion. And even if we don't, because we

are trusting in our nature...we are " shocked " into " submission.

I don't care if it's a little girl at three, a prisoner being tortured,

a woman, or man, who is being assaulted and raped, or any other

" situation " , of " like issue " ...we have been placed in complete

submission to another. Our power has been taken. We are left helpless.

We " shatter " . part of us in shock, and left in that state, in whatever

place that fragment goes. We are left in fear, another fragment, we are

left in pain, and in a state of " no power " , and we are left in a place,

a piece of us, is by the vert thing, enraged, and seeks revenge...to

take back the power.

Let's use something like and S & M, type related relationship...if you

know much about it, usually in the milder sense, one gives up total

control, while the other takes total control. It may even seem to be

about sex, and many couples have experimented with this thing. But it is

not about sex, regardless if any occurs or not. it is about taking

control, or giving it up. Sometimes, two may swap places with it...but

the ones who practice it for the deeper experience, do so 24/7.

Part of that process is learning, by, seeing how far one can go, pushing

boundries. If one is a " good master " ...he has the submissive " best

interest " at heart, and only goes so far, knowing she, or he, is looking

for that one " place " , where they are going to get control back, that was

lost in some other place and time. Maybe without even realizing that is

why they are in this role now. Some may know that's what their

doing...few do.

Before you venture to guess and ask how I would know any of this, the

answer is " I read " ....everything. And I can relate in many ways to such

things from other experiences.

Sometimes, a submissive will refuse to do a certain thing, and is

" punished " ...and in order to come back into " good graces " of " the

master " , and Love....what she or he believes it to be by this time, they

must, submit further, go deeper, " go some place else " .

While may see the line of thinking, I find it impossible to reach the

places that are being reached for. Further fragmentation is the result.

It is mind control in it's truest sense. Not to lay blame with the

supposed master, who may be looking for the answer of loss of control,

from their own deeper issues...If you read anything about various mind

control uses and experiments, this is it through and through.

Pain = Love, because we have " been conditioned " to believe we can not

make our way to love, without the experience of the pain...be it a child

who is abused, by beatings, or molestations, they " go someplace else " to

avoid the supposed pain they must, have been lead to believe, is

required, before they can " return for the love they hope will be found

there....and rarely is. "

What happens, a lot of the time, is two people will get tofether,

whether in a relationship, and it all boils down to an S & M kind of

arrangement, whether played out as one, or completely

subconsciously....and you end up with two people who " love " each other,

yet their constantly at each others throats....they find it hard to

understand. This is the root cause of all realtionship problems...the

attraction that first brought them together, is because of the deeper

root, which each will consciously, or subconsciously bring out and

reflect to the other.

If more counslors, and police and courts, and families, and two people

themselves understood this alittle more....many things could be solved

so much easier. Not that there's not work here....healing needs to take

place. And love will do the healing, REAL LOVE, which requires nothing,

no proof...complete unconditional love.

While it could be said that any such two might consider separation while

the process is completed...they equally must be working with that

understanding. Otherwise, the one must do it themselves, and let the

other go, for now. But nothing is really let go.

As the issue is addressed, energy and love begins to release and change

things. Where real love is expressed, sent, contained, and held, it can

not " become empty " . Love is at our center, which is the very same center

of us all...it is only as we " come out " ward in the experience that we

call ourself that we move away from this unlimited well of overflowing

life giving substance.

This well is YOU. The REAL YOU. The rest of this is pure illusion, even

if " our reality " of it is so " here and now " , " so strong and in your

face " . Disengage...we are experienced in this are we not...to disengage,

and " go some place else " ...so, why not go, WITHIN, by passing all the

added STUFF...go to the CENTER. We have a FastPass there anytime we WILL

IT.

When we send love to one another, this is where we send it from, and to.

It is not the love that is sent that you experience here, it is your own

love center, which of course, is the same, but the armour there has been

burned away and you unplug the well of your own spring, and it runs out,

refreshing, unbounded, and those around you will not be able to not be

affected by this.

Come on now, I recommend the books I keep pointing to on my M/S profile,

about living on love...you can spend hours doing something that leaves

you without your energy, and sense of self, or you can DO SOMETHING

RIGHT NOW, that may make every bit the difference. Anyone knows who does

construction, you don't show up on the job without your tools. Here's

some that replace just about all of them. Even if it were that they

didn't do what I say they might....what have you lost?

I love you, all. Maybe I think way too much, way too deep..or maybe I'm

just lost in my own head...but a when you can let yourself rise alittle

higher, to look at the bigger picture, sometimes, that's all that needed

to change our whole outlook, and prespective....

With Love

D~