Re: Pain = Love = Pain [which is which] < to >

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Thank you for challening us all to THINK a little more and dig a little deeper. Namaste, Debbie >> > I've gone back, reading and re-reading some of the various posts...the> personal request, the deeper askings that seem to be there, just under> the surface. While a letter can reveal so much to me, and I can did> deeper still, and try to pull more information forward for better> understanding [yeah, if i don't know the answer, I "google it"...hehe,> and ya thought I was just that smart already....not] [and where it is> possible, I dig though email links and myspace pages, blogs and read the> writings of others....the deeper thoughts].> > But that is not where things come from entirely. In the letters, in the> request, the words used, the sentences, the phrases, are all "keys",> sent up from a deeper place of being, from the place needing the> attention. From the place that is, or leads to, the "root".> > It is the "space" between the words, in between the lines, that tell the> story...that hold the "emotion". This is where empathy enters in.> > So, I try here to cover, at least in part, some of the "issues" I've> been seeing. Since it covers a range of them, across several letters and> request, it is not directed to any one. That way I am free to address> "cause", and point to "effect", and some of which may directly address> the needed thing for one, while, something else, addresses yet another.> Just because there is one, doesn't mean there is the other....use what> fits, leave the rest...........confused yet? Let's try....> > It has been used that "love = pain", and it has been said that "pain => love". Let's take these TWO THINGS first.> > First, these are two completely different things altogether. Yes, I've> lost my mind, it gives me a little leyway to step out on limbs,> something I'm good at. I question, then I question the questioning, and> then the questionaire...[what?]> > Ok, let's take this thing apart..."love = pain". Here we are vunerable.> We have, in some way, learned that to love, means to experience pain.> Maybe it was our mother giving to our father, sacrificing everything,> including herself, her happiness, for a man, who didn't return that> loving, that giving, who maybe didn't understand how....but kids don't> think on those lines so much...they see the giving, and then they see> the tears...love equals pain...giving equals pain. Any examples they,> we, have seen, is that when love was given, somehow, the result was the> return of pain.> > It doesn't matter that later, we look for love, marry, raise families,> or other wise try to give, the result bubbles up, if even from our own> subconsciously arranged set up, to expect pain as the result...to make> way, or cause for it. Now, this is not to blame. There is no blame...I'm> pointing merely to potential cause and effect. We may not knowingly do> this, but we experience the "same things".> > We all somehow, at some point ask ourselves questions like, "why do we> keep attracting the same kind of guy, or girl, or relationship, or> situation"? It could be a business we start, having grand ideas, pouring> our heart and soul into it, and, at some point, and maybe just when it> looks like we may finally succeed at something, we sabatoge ourselves in> one or more ways. Why? Because there is a root cause at work. A cause,> that when found, says, "money is bad, success is bad, money is the root> of all evil, succeeding in this world means your taking from others."> That's just a few, but maybe your getting the picture.> > "The Thing = The Result". We have linked up something having no merit or> meaning to something else. Once again, usually associating this when in> some emotional state. And when it keeps happening, we make that stronger> within us. It becomes over powering. If you smoke, it is from, not the> attraction and addition to nicotine as is so commonly said...it's a> factor.....but we link it with being cool, or, it calms me, it helps me> think. And what do you do a lot of? Think Want To Be Calm? You> "re-enforce" the very thing you would want to be rid of.> > Now, let's coss over..."pain = love". This is a different issue. When> you want to see how something works, take it apart. We have linked, that> to "get love", we must first experience the pain. This is generally> created by "force". be it by molestation, regardless of via body, or> mind....and it's rarely a separate thing...we are forced to accept> "something". We are violated, molested, taken, controled. It is in our> nature to fight off such an intrusion. And even if we don't, because we> are trusting in our nature...we are "shocked" into "submission.> > I don't care if it's a little girl at three, a prisoner being tortured,> a woman, or man, who is being assaulted and raped, or any other> "situation", of "like issue"...we have been placed in complete> submission to another. Our power has been taken. We are left helpless.> We "shatter". part of us in shock, and left in that state, in whatever> place that fragment goes. We are left in fear, another fragment, we are> left in pain, and in a state of "no power", and we are left in a place,> a piece of us, is by the vert thing, enraged, and seeks revenge...to> take back the power.> > Let's use something like and S & M, type related relationship...if you> know much about it, usually in the milder sense, one gives up total> control, while the other takes total control. It may even seem to be> about sex, and many couples have experimented with this thing. But it is> not about sex, regardless if any occurs or not. it is about taking> control, or giving it up. Sometimes, two may swap places with it...but> the ones who practice it for the deeper experience, do so 24/7.> > Part of that process is learning, by, seeing how far one can go, pushing> boundries. If one is a "good master"...he has the submissive "best> interest" at heart, and only goes so far, knowing she, or he, is looking> for that one "place", where they are going to get control back, that was> lost in some other place and time. Maybe without even realizing that is> why they are in this role now. Some may know that's what their> doing...few do.> > Before you venture to guess and ask how I would know any of this, the> answer is "I read"....everything. And I can relate in many ways to such> things from other experiences.> > Sometimes, a submissive will refuse to do a certain thing, and is> "punished"...and in order to come back into "good graces" of "the> master", and Love....what she or he believes it to be by this time, they> must, submit further, go deeper, "go some place else".> > While may see the line of thinking, I find it impossible to reach the> places that are being reached for. Further fragmentation is the result.> It is mind control in it's truest sense. Not to lay blame with the> supposed master, who may be looking for the answer of loss of control,> from their own deeper issues...If you read anything about various mind> control uses and experiments, this is it through and through.> > Pain = Love, because we have "been conditioned" to believe we can not> make our way to love, without the experience of the pain...be it a child> who is abused, by beatings, or molestations, they "go someplace else" to> avoid the supposed pain they must, have been lead to believe, is> required, before they can "return for the love they hope will be found> there....and rarely is."> > What happens, a lot of the time, is two people will get tofether,> whether in a relationship, and it all boils down to an S & M kind of> arrangement, whether played out as one, or completely> subconsciously....and you end up with two people who "love" each other,> yet their constantly at each others throats....they find it hard to> understand. This is the root cause of all realtionship problems...the> attraction that first brought them together, is because of the deeper> root, which each will consciously, or subconsciously bring out and> reflect to the other.> > If more counslors, and police and courts, and families, and two people> themselves understood this alittle more....many things could be solved> so much easier. Not that there's not work here....healing needs to take> place. And love will do the healing, REAL LOVE, which requires nothing,> no proof...complete unconditional love.> > While it could be said that any such two might consider separation while> the process is completed...they equally must be working with that> understanding. Otherwise, the one must do it themselves, and let the> other go, for now. But nothing is really let go.> > As the issue is addressed, energy and love begins to release and change> things. Where real love is expressed, sent, contained, and held, it can> not "become empty". Love is at our center, which is the very same center> of us all...it is only as we "come out" ward in the experience that we> call ourself that we move away from this unlimited well of overflowing> life giving substance.> > This well is YOU. The REAL YOU. The rest of this is pure illusion, even> if "our reality" of it is so "here and now", "so strong and in your> face". Disengage...we are experienced in this are we not...to disengage,> and "go some place else"...so, why not go, WITHIN, by passing all the> added STUFF...go to the CENTER. We have a FastPass there anytime we WILL> IT.> > When we send love to one another, this is where we send it from, and to.> It is not the love that is sent that you experience here, it is your own> love center, which of course, is the same, but the armour there has been> burned away and you unplug the well of your own spring, and it runs out,> refreshing, unbounded, and those around you will not be able to not be> affected by this.> > Come on now, I recommend the books I keep pointing to on my M/S profile,> about living on love...you can spend hours doing something that leaves> you without your energy, and sense of self, or you can DO SOMETHING> RIGHT NOW, that may make every bit the difference. Anyone knows who does> construction, you don't show up on the job without your tools. Here's> some that replace just about all of them. Even if it were that they> didn't do what I say they might....what have you lost?> > I love you, all. Maybe I think way too much, way too deep..or maybe I'm> just lost in my own head...but a when you can let yourself rise alittle> higher, to look at the bigger picture, sometimes, that's all that needed> to change our whole outlook, and prespective....> > > > With Love> > D~>