Re: Bathing in mms/moles and warts

[Guest guest]

Hello Lymeover and out,

The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and if it is

allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly carpet, it

becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be ignited by

impact, heat, and/or UV light.

The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the package in

the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed with water,

you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came loose you can

tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off and place in on

a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that is away from UV

light.

That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing box and

material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the sodium

chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along with the

area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material, like

towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the solution from

and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did not contain the

leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat chemical and is

supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it leaks, and it is

supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be contained within

the package and not make it to the outside.

The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS sheet

included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read and

refer to during your clean up.

http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

Tom

>

> I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.  I am filled with

dioxin poisoning, like clorox.  I am concerned about the fumes and absorbing the

MMS throught the skin.

>  

> Can the liver take that exposure?  What is MMS?  Is it like a clorox?  I order

the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some leaked out of the

package after I got it.  The package was and still is unopened becaues it

bleached a forest green carpet.  The box it is in reeks like clorox and my

husband says do not take it.

>  

> I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them and it

was suggested that I bath in the MMS. 

>  

> Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in this

by taking it internally first?

>  

> Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.  I am very achy

without any let up.  This is new for me now 9 days old.  I have had weight gain

since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.  I'm on Doxy now 100 mg twice a

day. 

>  

> Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

>  

> Those are some of questions

> Thank You so much for your answers.

>  

> lymeover and out

>

[Guest guest]

Silver your post discourage the use of MMS1 like it is a toxic chemical to be

disposed of. This confuses me why you are here, to warn others of the use?

Lymeover I have used MMS1 in the tub for over a year and half with no adverse

effects only healing properties. I also had lymes disease and MMS1 has been a

blessing for me not some hazardous chemical. Follow the protocol for bathing.

Obviously use some caution and sense, but in my opinion silver is overboard. I

have used activated MMS1 in my home as a disinfectant and air sanitizer, with no

adverse effect either. Silver the way you describe MMS1 we should have

explosions all over the USA and world with this stuff????

http://www.jimhumble.biz/biz-tubbath.htm

http://healthfreedoms.org/2010/01/15/home-uses-for-mms-chlorine-dioxide/

http://www.malariainitiative.com/25/featured/malaria-treatment-testimonies/

> >

> > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled with

dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and absorbing

the MMS throught the skin.

> > �

> > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a clorox?�

I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some leaked out

of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is unopened becaues

it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks like clorox and my

husband says do not take it.

> > �

> > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them and

it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > �

> > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in this

by taking it internally first?

> > �

> > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very achy

without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had weight

gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100 mg twice

a day.�

> > �

> > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > �

> > Those are some of questions

> > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > �

> > lymeover and out

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not Tom, but he is right. That's why sodium chlorite powder is considered haz mat material and you have to have a special license to ship it, plus you MUST ship with a ground carrier. They don't even allow it on planes because of the fire hazard and the airplane fuel.

They feel it is ok to ship the liquid because liquid is suppose to be contained in a spill proof bottle. But if it does spill, the liquid evaporates and leave the sodium chlorite powder residue. I guess they think there's not enough time on a flight for it to fully evaporate and leave enough residue to start a fire or make a fire spread, but it certainly would make the fire burn hotter and faster--hence, no powder allowed on flights.

It is a chemical after all, and safe handling is required. I left a ring on my wood table after setting down an MMS bottle with a wet MMS solution on the bottom.

So yes--safety is required. It's always best to tell people the worst case scenario, because it leaves more of an impression and people become aware that there IS a danger if they are not careful.

In our jewelry class an electrician built an anodizing machine for us. When he gave it to the class he gave a lecture on using it and safety precautions. Because you are putting a water based solution in the container, and then running electricity through this solution (which in turns colors certain metals) you need to be very cautious. He explained that since it was possible, if you weren't careful to keep one hand away from the machine at all times, you ran the risk of sending the electricity from one hand to the other, thereby going through the heart with the potential to stop the heart. It made everyone aware of the machine, made them use safety measures when using the machine, and kept everyone happily making jewelry without killing themselves.

I see nothing wrong with knowing the full precautions when using anything that is hazardous. If anyone chooses to ignore or dismiss or fudge a little on those precautions, that's a personal choice. Then no one can say they weren't warned ahead of time.

samala,

www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt

Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps

you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here

-------Original Message-------

Silver your post discourage the use of MMS1 like it is a toxic chemical to be disposed of. This confuses me why you are here, to warn others of the use?

[Guest guest]

You remind me of the media when you respond to my post you pick a sound

bite. LOL Yes there are precautions, but lymeabout ask about the chlorine

toxicity with the pre-made MMS1 I beleive, not the fire hazard, or shipping

concerns. It would be folly to use MMS without doing some homework and weighing

the evidence before hand.

The most convincing evidence that MMS/chlorine is not harming the people who are

using it, is that they consistently, independently, and predominantly show

IMPROVEMENT in their condition after and with use. These people don’t know

each other. They’re not talking to each other and making up stories. They’re

simply showing the courage to use their own intelligence, and not give into fear

of someone else’s DISAPPROVAL… someone who doesn’t have to deal with what

they’re dealing with. It’s amazing to me how people will ignore or dismiss

such a preponderance of success for the lack of a “double-blind†study. What

is happening is far more telling than a double blind study, because every person

using MMS is unaware of any other person’s experience, situation, or protocol.

We are so ready to challenge the potential harm that chlorine dioxide may cause,

and ignore that REAL HARM that toxicity, pathogens, and parasites ARE causing to

our health. Even when people all around them are getting better.

If you’re really concerned about what does harm to the human body, then take a

close look at what’s in the foods you ingest, the water you drink, and the air

your breathe every minute of every day. Then see how chlorine dioxide reacts to

them, which are the real threats to your health.

Chlorine Dioxide is clearly a safe and healthful way to disinfect water. I’m

helping my town choose a Chlorine Dioxide water treatment system to replace the

old “free Chlorine†one. Of course, chlorite and chlorate byproducts of

disinfection will have to be monitored. There are levels that apparently can

start to effect blood cells. Now, though, people won’t have to deal with free

Chlorine’s smell, 7-9 carcinogenic compounds, bromates, eye irritation, or the

now-proven increased hardening of the arteries.

The blood stream is our personal water delivery system. Chlorine Dioxide is

non-toxic, and more importantly, does not combine with or add to other

substances to become a toxin or irritant. It’s an anti-toxin if you dilute it

properly and consume it responsibly. I would like to be able to monitor the

chlorite and chlorate production personally like we can for the town water

supply.

Listen to your own body’s response to Chlorine Dioxide. Back off if the

reaction is too unpleasant. We don’t like to even think about it, but years

and years of toxic build-up in our systems is going to put us through HELL as

it’s forced out by Chlorine Dioxide. Take it easy.

Jim Humble described chlorine dioxide as a weaker oxidizer than hydrogen

peroxide, which can easily be corroborated by a simple Google search. While the

body doesn’t produce chlorine dioxide, it offers great assistance due to the

fact that it only acts on acidic contaminants and microorganism that it

encounters, unlike hydrogen peroxide, which may also impact aerobic cells and

microorganisms.

You’re right about what Jim did, relative to developing the protocol we now

know as MMS. To me, the most significant factor is that he called attention to

this MAJOR pathogen reduction medium that could do so much for humankind,

essentially hiding in plain sight. Although it had been available in lower

concentrations for years, chlorine dioxide wasn’t being THOUGHT OF in the way

that it is now, and certainly not used. At 22.4% effective concentration, MMS is

packaged with more sodium chlorite, but priced less than most other water

purification products, and is now potent enough to be applied to some major

pollution conditions within the human ecosystem.

The question of not being as “safe as Jim Humble claims†seems moot since it

is not suggested to be used except as dissolved in water or liquid. In fact, my

understanding was that chlorine dioxide only exists in solution, and cannot be

airborne. The actual “danger†may be with chlorine gas, which would smell

the same.

I’ll add an AMEN to your conclusions, and add that nutrition and

hydration are as important to this process. MMS is not really a “naturalâ€

approach, but it is an effective and safe (when used as recommended) chemical

approach to be used for disinfecting the body’s internal waters. Hydration and

mineral replenishment are essential, and could reduce toxicity on their own.

However, chlorine dioxide offers a great assist to this process.

>

> I'm not Tom, but he is right. That's why sodium chlorite powder is

> considered haz mat material and you have to have a special license to ship

> it, plus you MUST ship with a ground carrier. They don't even allow it on

> planes because of the fire hazard and the airplane fuel.

>

> They feel it is ok to ship the liquid because liquid is suppose to be

> contained in a spill proof bottle. But if it does spill, the liquid

> evaporates and leave the sodium chlorite powder residue. I guess they think

> there's not enough time on a flight for it to fully evaporate and leave

> enough residue to start a fire or make a fire spread, but it certainly would

> make the fire burn hotter and faster--hence, no powder allowed on flights.

>

> It is a chemical after all, and safe handling is required. I left a ring on

> my wood table after setting down an MMS bottle with a wet MMS solution on

> the bottom.

>

> So yes--safety is required. It's always best to tell people the worst case

> scenario, because it leaves more of an impression and people become aware

> that there IS a danger if they are not careful.

>

> In our jewelry class an electrician built an anodizing machine for us. When

> he gave it to the class he gave a lecture on using it and safety precautions

> Because you are putting a water based solution in the container, and then

> running electricity through this solution (which in turns colors certain

> metals) you need to be very cautious. He explained that since it was

> possible, if you weren't careful to keep one hand away from the machine at

> all times, you ran the risk of sending the electricity from one hand to the

> other, thereby going through the heart with the potential to stop the heart.

> It made everyone aware of the machine, made them use safety measures when

> using the machine, and kept everyone happily making jewelry without killing

> themselves.

>

> I see nothing wrong with knowing the full precautions when using anything

> that is hazardous. If anyone chooses to ignore or dismiss or fudge a little

> on those precautions, that's a personal choice. Then no one can say they

> weren't warned ahead of time.

>

> samala,

>

> www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt

> Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps

> you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here

>

> -------Original Message-------

> Silver your post discourage the use of MMS1 like it is a toxic chemical to

be disposed of. This confuses me why you are here, to warn others of the use?

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

I am shocked at your ignorance, and your unwillingness to help someone in need.

Sodium chlorite solutions have been in use since 1940. Over that period of time

people have been trained in safe handling, safe storage, and safe shipping of

sodium chlorite solutions.

I work around these chemicals and am trained in using them safely. I am also

trained as a first responder in the event of a spill or other accidental

release. I am trained to recognize potential problems and act upon them before

they become accidents.

When I hear of an industrial strength solution of sodium chlorite giving off an

odor, bleaching, and soaking into organic material, I get very concerned and do

my best to advise a safe and effective way to clean up. The MSDS system is set

up for industrial chemicals so that those using them and are working around them

know what they are dealing with. Sodium chlorite solutions are not new, and

their hazards are well known. As a result of following the safe handling

procedures outlined in the MSDS, accidents have been greatly reduced and lives

have been saved.

Industrial strength solutions are often diluted down for household use. The

reason they dilute it down is to make it less hazardous to handle. The

household solutions are very effective when used properly.

An example of this is the industrial 12.5% sodium hypochlorite solution. You

can't run to the store and purchase this solution because there are hazards

associated with shipping, storing, and using this strength. However, you can

purchase a 6.25% strength of this as bleach in any grocery store.

Here is a MSDS for the 12.5% sodium chlorite solution

http://www.odysseymanufacturing.com/safety_data_sheet.htm

When you review the data on the bleach bottle, it is similar but a lot different

than that for the higher concentration solution. You still need to be careful

when handling it, but the hazard danger is reduced.

I recommend using a 5% sodium chlorite solution because it is much safer to ship

and handle than the 22.4% sodium chlorite solution. Leave the industrial

strength solutions to industry where there are additional safeguards in place.

You can do everything with a 5% sodium chlorite solution that you can with the

22.4% solution, and it is much safer to handle, and much easier to measure.

It is easy to remedy ignorance. You just need to study accurate material based

upon science, chemistry, and years of experience gained from using these

chemicals in large and small scale operations. I assume that your perceived

unwillingness to help is uncharacteristic of you and stems from your lack of

knowledge. Please don't take my opening statement as a judgment. You simply

didn't know any better. Now that you have read, and hopefully studied, the MSDS

you can do further research and increase your knowledge of the safety measures

for safe handling of this industrial strength chemical.

Tom

> >

> > Hello Lymeover and out,

> >

> > The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and if it

is allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly carpet,

it becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be ignited by

impact, heat, and/or UV light.

> >

> > The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the package

in the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed with water,

you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came loose you can

tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off and place in on

a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that is away from UV

light.

> >

> > That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing box

and material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the

sodium chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

> >

> > The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along with

the area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material, like

towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

> >

> > Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

> >

> > You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the solution

from and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did not

contain the leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat

chemical and is supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it

leaks, and it is supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be

contained within the package and not make it to the outside.

> >

> > The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS sheet

included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read and

refer to during your clean up.

> >

> > http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

> >

> > Tom

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In , tre dan <lymeover@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled with

dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and absorbing

the MMS throught the skin.

> > > �

> > > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a

clorox?� I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is

unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks

like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> > > �

> > > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them

and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > > �

> > > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in

this by taking it internally first?

> > > �

> > > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very achy

without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had weight

gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100 mg twice

a day.�

> > > �

> > > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > > �

> > > Those are some of questions

> > > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > > �

> > > lymeover and out

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ignorance please no name calling lets be nice, Mr educated first responder.

> > >

> > > Hello Lymeover and out,

> > >

> > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and if

it is allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly

carpet, it becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be

ignited by impact, heat, and/or UV light.

> > >

> > > The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the

package in the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed

with water, you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came

loose you can tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off

and place in on a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that

is away from UV light.

> > >

> > > That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing box

and material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the

sodium chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

> > >

> > > The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along with

the area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material, like

towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

> > >

> > > Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

> > >

> > > You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the solution

from and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did not

contain the leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat

chemical and is supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it

leaks, and it is supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be

contained within the package and not make it to the outside.

> > >

> > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS sheet

included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read and

refer to during your clean up.

> > >

> > > http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

> > >

> > > Tom

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In , tre dan <lymeover@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled

with dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and

absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

> > > > �

> > > > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a

clorox?� I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is

unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks

like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> > > > �

> > > > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them

and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > > > �

> > > > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in

this by taking it internally first?

> > > > �

> > > > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very

achy without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had

weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100

mg twice a day.�

> > > > �

> > > > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > > > �

> > > > Those are some of questions

> > > > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > > > �

> > > > lymeover and out

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Um, I wasn't picking out a sound bite. You were saying that it sounded like Tom was trying to make MMS sound like a toxic chemical. I thought he was only giving good warnings about handling the product. Since you were making it sound like there was no need for safety at all, because you've used it for just about everything, I simply stated that it IS a hazardous chemical, used wrongly. I said it's good to have warnings so that people learn to respect it and not just act as if it has no unsafe features at all.

I've used MMS to good effect myself. Still, because I'm making it and selling it, I understand the dangers in mixing it up, and of shipping it. And the dangers in using too much premixed MMS--I've experienced the projectile vomiting and liquid diarrhea. I appreciate what MMS does and I have respect for it.

I was not trying to discourage anyone from using it, simply stating that it DOES need to be handled with care. It's a chemical that has bleaching effects, skin damage effects, even internal organ effects if we believe (now, as I do) that the body effects of too much or too high a dose is actually chlorine poisoning instead of pathogen die-off and it is handled incorrectly. People need to be aware of these points, just as they are aware of the best use and health benefits. Because you never know who is reading.

I've had people on other lists say "ok, I want to try this MMS--what is it and where do I get it" without any idea of what safe use for it is, nor how to take it without making themselves sick. And they wait for someone to tell them the information instead of researching for themselves.

I think there's room for safety talk about MMS without anything more than simply glowing reports on how wonderful it is. That is what I was addressing. I was not taking out a sound bite.

samala,

www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt

Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps

you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here

-------Original Message-------

You remind me of the media when you respond to my post you pick a sound bite.

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

I wanted to address the use of sodium chlorite in a bath in a separate post.

Sodium chlorite is a stable form of chlorine dioxide. The concentration of the

solution is directly related to the amount of chlorine dioxide in it. For

example, a 5% sodium chlorite solution has 50000 PPM of chlorine dioxide

available for use under optimum activation. As you can see, when you are

needing 1 - 10 PPM chlorine dioxide, the 5% solution works very well, and is

probably actually a little strong.

If you are wondering why I mention concentrations in the 1 - 10 PPM chlorine

dioxide range, read Jim Humbles book and see how many times he mentions using 1

PPM solutions.

Chlorine dioxide works by having a concentration of it in contact with the

pathogen for a specific period of time. The concentration and contact time are

inversely proportional. A higher concentration requires less contact time and a

lower concentration requires a longer contact time. Studies have been done to

determine the CT values for most of the pathogens associated with drinking

water.

The concentration of chlorine dioxide is directly related to the volume of water

you are working with. For example to achieve a concentration of 1 PPM chlorine

dioxide in a 5000 liter pool you would use about 167 ml of 5% sodium chlorite.

To achieve the same 1 PPM in a 100 liter bath you would only use about 3.5 ml of

5% sodium chlorite.

If you are soaking for 30 minutes in 1 PPM chlorine dioxide, you have a CT of

30. That will take care of most bacteria, but will fall short with fungi and

viruses. For example Herpes simplex type 1 has a CT of 2750 for a 3 log kill.

In my tub, 6 " of water is about 60 liters. If I use 30 drops of the 22.4%

sodium chlorite activated according to the MMS protocol, I will end up with a

concentration of about 0.8 PPM free chlorine dioxide. If I am interested in

killing off Herpes simplex type 1 virus, I would need to soak for about 3438

minutes, or 57.3 hours.

There is no doubt that a 0.8 PPM concentration will help a little, but it would

be much better if the concentration was based upon effectiveness and adjusted to

minimize respiratory irritation. The statement that the amount of water doesn't

matter is wrong.

Tom

> >

> > Hello Lymeover and out,

> >

> > The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and if it

is allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly carpet,

it becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be ignited by

impact, heat, and/or UV light.

> >

> > The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the package

in the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed with water,

you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came loose you can

tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off and place in on

a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that is away from UV

light.

> >

> > That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing box

and material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the

sodium chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

> >

> > The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along with

the area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material, like

towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

> >

> > Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

> >

> > You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the solution

from and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did not

contain the leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat

chemical and is supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it

leaks, and it is supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be

contained within the package and not make it to the outside.

> >

> > The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS sheet

included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read and

refer to during your clean up.

> >

> > http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

> >

> > Tom

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In , tre dan <lymeover@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled with

dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and absorbing

the MMS throught the skin.

> > > �

> > > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a

clorox?� I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is

unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks

like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> > > �

> > > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them

and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > > �

> > > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in

this by taking it internally first?

> > > �

> > > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very achy

without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had weight

gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100 mg twice

a day.�

> > > �

> > > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > > �

> > > Those are some of questions

> > > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > > �

> > > lymeover and out

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Silver you are saying Humbles writings are mistaken and the amount of water is

relevant, and also saying that the bath is relativity useless because of the

amount of time for pathogens? I wish you would work on more layman terms such as

a DOCTOR or NURSE must do to communicate with others. Your analysis is not in

parallel with Humbles writing or my own personal experiences. Here is the

quotations from Humbles writings, and for my own experiences I had lyme, lesions

and herpes zoster all gone now and life returned, a large part due to baths

along with the MMS1 protocol. I also have never had a irritation form the gas in

the tub.

http://www.jimhumble.biz/biz-tubbath.htm

4. ADD THE ACTIVATED MMS into the tub water. Stir it. Almost immediately all

germs in the water will be eradicated. Some companies provide swimming pool

systems that use this same strategy. Water does not reduce the amount of ClO2

gas that is being produced. Tub half full or very full doesn't matter because

the same amount of Cl02 gas will be produced by the activated MMS.

> > >

> > > Hello Lymeover and out,

> > >

> > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and if

it is allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly

carpet, it becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be

ignited by impact, heat, and/or UV light.

> > >

> > > The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the

package in the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed

with water, you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came

loose you can tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off

and place in on a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that

is away from UV light.

> > >

> > > That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing box

and material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the

sodium chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

> > >

> > > The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along with

the area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material, like

towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

> > >

> > > Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

> > >

> > > You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the solution

from and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did not

contain the leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat

chemical and is supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it

leaks, and it is supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be

contained within the package and not make it to the outside.

> > >

> > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS sheet

included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read and

refer to during your clean up.

> > >

> > > http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

> > >

> > > Tom

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In , tre dan <lymeover@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled

with dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and

absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

> > > > �

> > > > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a

clorox?� I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is

unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks

like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> > > > �

> > > > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them

and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > > > �

> > > > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in

this by taking it internally first?

> > > > �

> > > > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very

achy without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had

weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100

mg twice a day.�

> > > > �

> > > > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > > > �

> > > > Those are some of questions

> > > > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > > > �

> > > > lymeover and out

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

This part of your statement is correct...

" Silver you are saying Humbles writings are mistaken and the amount of water is

relevant... "

This part of your statement is not correct...

" ...and also saying that the bath is relativity useless because of the

amount of time for pathogens? "

I said...

" If you are soaking for 30 minutes in 1 PPM chlorine dioxide, you have a CT of

30. That will take care of most bacteria... "

So, if your skin problems were caused by bacteria, the concentration recommended

by Jim Humble would take care of it. However, I will also point out that soap

is also very effective at removing bacteria from skin.

I went on to say...

" ...but will fall short with fungi and viruses. "

And then went on to illustrate with the Herpes virus.

I also stated...

" There is no doubt that a 0.8 PPM concentration will help a little... "

The concept of CT is not new and has been used in water disinfection for as long

as water has been disinfected. To gain a better understanding of disinfection,

here are some articles on water disinfection.

This first one offers a general overview of CT.

http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/factors/factors-disinfection-wate\

r.htm

The next one is a 21 page discussion called " CT Disinfection Made Simple. "

http://www.awwoa.ab.ca/pdfs/CTMadeSimple.pdf

The next one goes through the complete process of water treatment and

disinfection, and is pretty much up to date.

http://environment.gov.ab.ca/info/library/6979.pdf

The next one gives a glossary of terms used in disinfection, along with CT

tables for the various methods of disinfecting water.

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~fishw/UO_CT-Glossary.pdf

The final one, for now, represents work by the World Health Organization on

water treatment and pathogen control.

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/en/watreatpath3.pdf

Tom

> > > >

> > > > Hello Lymeover and out,

> > > >

> > > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite is dangerous to handle. It will bleach, and

if it is allowed to dry on organic material, like packing boxes and possibly

carpet, it becomes a fire hazard. Once the sodium chlorite dries it can be

ignited by impact, heat, and/or UV light.

> > > >

> > > > The first thing you should do is to put on some gloves and place the

package in the sink and run some water over it. Once the package is flushed

with water, you can open it and figure out why it spilled. If the lid came

loose you can tighten it up. Then you can rinse the outside of the bottle off

and place in on a shelf, out of the reach of children, in a cool dry place that

is away from UV light.

> > > >

> > > > That will take care of the bottle, now let's take care of the packing

box and material. Flush everything with lots of water. This should dilute the

sodium chlorite down to a much safer level. Next you need to place the package

material and the box in an outside garbage can. At this point it should not

pose a hazard, but why take a chance. If the outside garbage can catches on

fire, the damage will be much less then if the fire started inside the house.

> > > >

> > > > The final item to take care of is the rug. The bleached area, along

with the area around it, should be flushed with water. Any organic material,

like towels, used to dry the rug also need to be flushed out. Once the rug is

flushed out and dried, it should no longer pose a threat of fire. Now all you

need to do is to run the towels through the washer and that should take care of

them too.

> > > >

> > > > Finally, you need to remove your gloves and thoroughly wash your hands.

> > > >

> > > > You may want to consider contacting the people that purchased the

solution from and tell them that it leaked in transit, and their packaging did

not contain the leak. The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is considered a hazmat

chemical and is supposed to be shipped with a warning label of what to do if it

leaks, and it is supposed to be packaged in such a way that any leaks will be

contained within the package and not make it to the outside.

> > > >

> > > > The 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is also supposed to have an MSDS

sheet included in the package. Here is an example of a MSDS that you can read

and refer to during your clean up.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.mms.lovnmoney.com/Sodium_chlorite_MSDS.pdf

> > > >

> > > > Tom

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In , tre dan <lymeover@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox.� I am filled

with dioxin poisoning, like clorox.� I am concerned about the fumes and

absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

> > > > > �

> > > > > Can the liver take that exposure?� What is MMS?� Is it like a

clorox?� I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it.� The package was and still is

unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet.� The box it is in reeks

like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> > > > > �

> > > > > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of

them and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.�

> > > > > �

> > > > > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing

in this by taking it internally first?

> > > > > �

> > > > > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble.� I am very

achy without any let up.� This is new for me now 9 days old.� I have had

weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago.� I'm on Doxy now 100

mg twice a day.�

> > > > > �

> > > > > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> > > > > �

> > > > > Those are some of questions

> > > > > Thank You so much for your answers.

> > > > > �

> > > > > lymeover and out

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-04-02 5:04 PM, wrote:

> You were saying that it sounded like Tom was trying to make MMS sound

> like a toxic chemical.

And indeed, it *is* a toxic chemical.

--

[Guest guest]

On 2010-04-02 4:17 PM, healinghope wrote:

> Ignorance please no name calling lets be nice, Mr educated first

> responder.

<pet-peeve-mode>

When someone says your are ignorant, it is *not* calling you names, nor

is it an insult, it is simply either true or false.

If it is true, you should re-evaluate what it is you are/may be ignorant

of. If it isn't, then rebut the accusation with evidence.

The only true sin, imnsho, is what I call *deliberate* ignorance -

meaning, someone who chooses to stick their head in the sand and refuse

to learn new information, because it challenges an ingrained belief that

the person simply refuses to consider may be wrong, for whatever reason.

</pet-peeve-mode>

Oh - and healinghope, while silverfox_sciene's comment to you was *not

calling you a name, your reply to him *was* calling him a name, so you

engaged in the exact behavior that you incorrectly accused him of.

--

[Guest guest]

> >from MMS FORUM SPAIN

>

Our skin is a totally porous body has the capacity

act as an osmotic membrane, allowing it to produce a

exchange between inside and outside our body. Plus

takes the familiar oral doses can be absorbed through the skin

MMS directly. A greater number of CL02 is put into circulation and

benefits, according to the experience of those who have used, are

quite fast, especially combined with other protocols. By using this

type of bath the whole surface of the skin is in contact with the

CL02 gas 20 to 30 minutes.

For some people this method has led to a final settlement.

Process description:

1. Clean the bathtub. Do not put any soap or other products

chemicals in the water.

2. On 30 drops of MMS (type 1:1) mixed in a glass. Wait 1

min. If there is open skin wounds or severe injuries on the body would

to consider the reduction to 20 drops. The wounds opened by the

usually clear up rapidly due to the disinfectant action of MMS.

3. Fill the tub about 20-30cm with hot water. Do not add soap

perfume, shampoo, and toys away from children. You can combine treatment

taking bath with about 5 to 7 drops in the usual way by

separately.

4. Add MMS enabled the bathtub and move to deliver the goods. Water

not reduce the amount of ClO2 gas being released.

5. Take the bathroom trying to thoroughly wet the entire body, including head

and

scalp. If you get some water in your eyes do not worry

since at this dose so diluted MMS does not harm the eyes.

6.more hot water. more water heat expands the pores and penetrates the

within the body. From the third bathroom noticed an improvement

significant.

[Guest guest]

MMS is very safe to use in the bath. Yes, it does smell like clorox but

the two are totally different in that one is safe to take and put in the

bath water and the other is not.

I have been putting 20 drops with the 100 activator in my husband's bath

for about 3 months and a huge cyst of parasites on his shoulder is just

about gone from his using this. The thing was the size of a large hen

egg. It was visible through his shirt. He has taken lots of it

internally also. It is very safe and will not hurt you.

It is true it smells like clorox but put away your fears.

Go on Jim's site and read about the benefits of the MMS.

www.jimhumble.biz

>

> I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox. I am filled

with dioxin poisoning, like clorox. I am concerned about the fumes and

absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

>

> Can the liver take that exposure? What is MMS? Is it like a clorox?

I order the large size of it and it was packed funny I guess and some

leaked out of the package after I got it. The package was and still is

unopened because it bleached a forest green carpet. The box it is in

reeks like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

>

> I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of

them and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.

>

> Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing

in this by taking it internally first?

>

> Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble. I am very

achy without any let up. This is new for me now 9 days old. I have had

weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago. I'm on Doxy now

100 mg twice a day.

>

> Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

>

> Those are some of questions

> Thank You so much for your answers.

>

> lymeover and out

>

[Guest guest]

Yes can someone please answer this? I have some warts on the bottom of my feet and have tried everything and nothing has worked! I see a foot doctor once a month to trim them down. Also I have another question, I don't take MMS orally but is it ok to take it in a bath? even though I have never had any oral contact with MMS.

From: hemnancy <hemnancy@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Bathing in mms/moles and warts Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 7:54 AM

Hi, I'm new to this list but not to alternative health forums. I remember some forum where people were bathing in around a cup of chlorox, Sodium Hypoclorite, added to bath water. They pointed out that bleach simply breaks down into salt, Sodium Chloride, and water. But no one has addressed the moles and warts part of this topic. Has anyone cured moles and warts with MMS, and how many PPM and how many baths did it take?Reading posts that consist of personal attacks wastes a lot of time and space and defeats the purpose of people learning from one another on health forums.... > >> > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox. I am filled> with dioxin poisoning, like clorox. I am concerned about the fumes and> absorbing the MMS throught the skin.> >> > Can the liver take that exposure? What is MMS? Is it like a clorox? > I order the large size of it and it was packed funny I guess and some> leaked out of the package after I got it. The package was and still is> unopened because it bleached a forest green carpet. The box it is in> reeks like clorox and my husband says do not take it.> >> > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of> them and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.> >> > Can one just start by

bathing in this or does one work up to bathing> in this by taking it internally first?> >> > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble. I am very> achy without any let up. This is new for me now 9 days old. I have had> weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago. I'm on Doxy now> 100 mg twice a day.> >> > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?> >> > Those are some of questions> > Thank You so much for your answers.> >> > lymeover and out> >>

[Guest guest]

People swear by placing a banana peel on it over night it will get rid

of them

Donna ACS

 

Yes can someone please answer this?  I have some warts on

the bottom of my feet and have tried everything and nothing has

worked!  I see a foot doctor once a month to trim them down.  Also I

have another question, I don't take MMS orally but is it ok to take it

in a bath?  even though I have never had any oral contact with MMS.

--- On Tue, 4/6/10, hemnancy <hemnancy >

wrote:

From: hemnancy <hemnancy >

Subject: [ ] Re: Bathing in mms/moles and

warts

Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 7:54 AM

 

Hi, I'm new to this list but not to alternative health forums. I

remember some forum where people were bathing in around a cup of

chlorox, Sodium Hypoclorite, added to bath water. They pointed out that

bleach simply breaks down into salt, Sodium Chloride, and water.

But no one has addressed the moles and warts part of this topic. Has

anyone cured moles and warts with MMS, and how many PPM and how many

baths did it take?

Reading posts that consist of personal attacks wastes a lot of time and

space and defeats the purpose of people learning from one another on

health forums....

> >

> > I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox. I am

filled

> with dioxin poisoning, like clorox. I am concerned about the fumes

and

> absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

> >

> > Can the liver take that exposure? What is MMS? Is it like a

clorox?

> I order the large size of it and it was packed funny I guess and

some

> leaked out of the package after I got it. The package was and

still is

> unopened because it bleached a forest green carpet. The box it is

in

> reeks like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

> >

> > I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be

rid of

> them and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.

> >

> > Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to

bathing

> in this by taking it internally first?

> >

> > Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble. I am

very

> achy without any let up. This is new for me now 9 days old. I have

had

> weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago. I'm on

Doxy now

> 100 mg twice a day.

> >

> > Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

> >

> > Those are some of questions

> > Thank You so much for your answers.

> >

> > lymeover and out

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Don ,

A foot bath solution with a concentration in the 100 - 150 PPM free chlorine

dioxide range should wipe out all bacteria and fungus. I tell people to soak

for an hour a night for a week.

Chlorine dioxide will penetrate the skin and can deal with infections on the

skin. The problem with a bath is that you are exposed to chlorine dioxide fumes

while in the bath. You want a strong concentration to deal with skin issues,

but a solution that is not strong enough to cause respiratory distress.

Solutions in the 5 - 10 PPM free chlorine dioxide are effective and usually are

well tolerated in the bath. Limit your bath time to 30 minutes or less, and

keep the bathroom fan running during the bath.

Tom

--- In , Don <donjuan69uni@...>

wrote:

>

> Yes can someone please answer this?  I have some warts on the bottom of my

feet and have tried everything and nothing has worked!  I see a foot doctor

once a month to trim them down.  Also I have another question, I don't take MMS

orally but is it ok to take it in a bath?  even though I have never had any

oral contact with MMS.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much I will try it. Where can I purchase 100-150 PPM Chlorine Dioxide? I'm new to MMS, is that the same as what is in MMS?

From: silverfox_science <poast@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Bathing in mms/moles and warts Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:12 PM

Hello Don ,A foot bath solution with a concentration in the 100 - 150 PPM free chlorine dioxide range should wipe out all bacteria and fungus. I tell people to soak for an hour a night for a week.Chlorine dioxide will penetrate the skin and can deal with infections on the skin. The problem with a bath is that you are exposed to chlorine dioxide fumes while in the bath. You want a strong concentration to deal with skin issues, but a solution that is not strong enough to cause respiratory distress. Solutions in the 5 - 10 PPM free chlorine dioxide are effective and usually are well tolerated in the bath. Limit your bath time to 30 minutes or less, and keep the bathroom fan running during the bath.Tom>> Yes can someone please answer this? I have some warts on the bottom of my feet and have tried everything and nothing has worked! I see a foot doctor once a month to trim them down. Also I have another question, I don't take MMS orally but is it ok to take it in a bath? even though I have never had any oral contact with MMS.

[Guest guest]

Hello Don ,

MMS is a 22.4% concentration of sodium chlorite. It is dangerous to handle so I

recommend people dilute it down to a much safer 5% concentration. You can start

with MMS and then dilute it down to a 5% concentration.

You will probably have to do the same with the HCl. The standard solution of

HCl is about 32%. You will have to take that and dilute it down to 6%.

To make the foot bath solution you would place 5 ml of 5% sodium chlorite in a

glass and add 5 ml of 6% HCl. Let it activate for 30 seconds, then add it to 1

liter of water.

Tom

> >

> > Yes can someone please answer this?  I have some warts on the bottom of

my feet and have tried everything and nothing has worked!  I see a foot

doctor once a month to trim them down.  Also I have another question, I don't

take MMS orally but is it ok to take it in a bath?  even though I have never

had any oral contact with MMS.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi.Go to www.jimhumble.biz read his protocols for mms-baths and all other info on both mms1 and mms2. Google mms1 and mms2 and you will learn what you need to know.Good luck.From: tre dan <lymeover@...> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 5:34:43 AMSubject: [ ] Bathing in mms/moles and warts

I have mms, I am concerned that it may be like clorox. I am filled with dioxin poisoning, like clorox. I am concerned about the fumes and absorbing the MMS throught the skin.

Can the liver take that exposure? What is MMS? Is it like a clorox? I order the large size of it and it was pasked funny I guess and some leaked out of the package after I got it. The package was and still is unopened becaues it bleached a forest green carpet. The box it is in reeks like clorox and my husband says do not take it.

I have skin issues with moles and tags and would like to be rid of them and it was suggested that I bath in the MMS.

Can one just start by bathing in this or does one work up to bathing in this by taking it internally first?

Right now my liver and gall bladder har having trouble. I am very achy without any let up. This is new for me now 9 days old. I have had weight gain since a feral cat bite me some 24 days ago. I'm on Doxy now 100 mg twice a day.

Can one be on doxy and take mms baths at the same time?

Those are some of questions

Thank You so much for your answers.

lymeover and out