Re: Diminishing Returns and Other Lessons Learned

[Guest guest]

A most excellent post. I learn something every day I begin reading my forum

posts. Thank you.

Vickie

kelrivas wrote:

Well I just bottled my fourth batch of KT and I have learned a few

very good tips that I thought I would share with the group, some I am

sure are listed on the group and other websites but some are from my

own discovery through this journey.

1. Diminishing Returns- you never really get a gallon of finished

product using a gallon sized jar. I had two gallon bottles brewing and

between decanting some liquid out of the jars to make more room for

oxygen (I will explain below), filtering, saving some for the next

batch starter, and just general spills I ended up with only one gallon

of finished product. I am not sure what I did to do this but I think

this time around I used a lot more starter in the new batch to ensure

success.

2. Don't Toss that Brown Stuff! –that brown goop floating in your brew

is NOT mold. I wasted almost two gallons of brew thinking it was " bad "

because it had some really gross brown yeast all thru the KT. What I

had was great KT with good yeast count and I tossed the whole batch

thinking it was bad stuff.

3. Stay in Touch with the Support Group - I want to thank the caring

folks on the board who quickly emailed me and saved me from tossing my

SCOBYs that were floating in the brew with the brown goop. You saved

me from tossing perfectly good SCOBY that are alive and flourishing.

4. Vinegar Bath – I have learned that if you soak the SCOBY in a

vinegar bath for a few minutes before adding it to the new brew to be

fermented and also filter the starter liquid of KT you are using

before adding it as well, you will get a clearer finished second brew.

I have a two gallon jars with a new big fat SCOBYs but the KT was much

clearer than previous batch, and tasted better I might add.

5. Decanting Liquid - I use glass sun tea jars for brewing. I noticed

that my SCOBY was not reproducing very well after about the 6th day of

brewing and I wondered if reducing some of the liquid in the jar might

help. So I decanted about a 1/3 of the liquid in jar out of each. (I

kept the liquid and just added to my KT in the fridge). Boy did this

make a difference! Big fat SCOBYs were produced two days later.

6. Stainless Steel – works just fine. I know everyone says use only

glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot at the

thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

7. Teas – I have discovered that Tetley tea makes a wonderful " British

Style " black tea that does not have string or staples, or strong oils.

It makes a good green tea as well. It comes in both regular and decaf

varieties For 4 ½ quarts of water I use 2 black tea bags and 3 green

bags. I also add 2 orange spice Rooibos tea bags in the brew as well

with no ill effects and wonderful tasting apple cider tea. Rooibos is

the only herbal tea I have had any luck with making KT. I get my tea

at Trader Joes and at Wal-Mart. Until I find an organic tea with no

string and staples I will continue this brew because it really works

and it taste good and the price is right. I cannot believe how much

tea I am going through in my home!

8. Water – I invested in some good storage containers for my water

that I now get from a water dealer here in town that uses an

excellent, state of the art filtering process. I was using distilled

water before, but I have since learned this process is better. I know

it taste better! Shop around though not all water dealers are trust

worthy. I was able to walk into this man's filtering plant and you

could have eaten off the floor it was so clean, and all the equipment

was top notch and NOT sitting on the floor. Also he has an Ozone

process to clean my 5 gallon bottles that keeps everything really

clean. Buying the containers gave me free water for two months as

well. I thought the whole thing was a great deal and we are drinking

much better water now in our home! Here in California our water is

really horrible and it was truly a good investment for my family as

well as my Kombucha babies.

9. Screw Top Wine Glass Bottles- I live near wine country and was able

to obtain screw top glass bottles for about a dollar a bottle. They

are great for storage and have the little " insert " on the cap to

prevent bottles from bursting. So far no bursts.

10. Adding Flavors – My mate will drink KT, but complains about the

vinegar taste, so I added KT to his grape/apple juice, (yes I told him

> ). He is now drinking KT three times a day.

11. Keep it Cheap- Don't use cost as a reason to not make KT. I got free

cultures from the group, went to thirft stores for pots and containers and

use cheap teas and sugar from places like Wal-Mart. Do not let cost be a reason

you

do not improve your family's health. Until you can afford to spend more money

for

the fancy stuff, just get the bare essentials from cheaper places. Doing it

cheaper

is better than not doing it all. I waited way too long to do this thinking

I could not afford it, now I know I can afford it. It is no more expensive

than making sun tea or koolaid, and it is healthy.

Long post but I hope it helps some newbies not make mistakes I did.

Best Wishes,

Kellie

[Guest guest]

Great tips...

(They match my own experience... except haven't done a vinegar bath, as I brew

till quite tart.)

~Lusana

kelrivas wrote:

Well I just bottled my fourth batch of KT and I have learned a few

very good tips that I thought I would share with the group, some I am

sure are listed on the group and other websites but some are from my

own discovery through this journey.

1. Diminishing Returns- you never really get a gallon of finished

product using a gallon sized jar. I had two gallon bottles brewing and

between decanting some liquid out of the jars to make more room for

oxygen (I will explain below), filtering, saving some for the next

batch starter, and just general spills I ended up with only one gallon

of finished product. I am not sure what I did to do this but I think

this time around I used a lot more starter in the new batch to ensure

success.

2. Don't Toss that Brown Stuff! –that brown goop floating in your brew

is NOT mold. I wasted almost two gallons of brew thinking it was " bad "

because it had some really gross brown yeast all thru the KT. What I

had was great KT with good yeast count and I tossed the whole batch

thinking it was bad stuff.

3. Stay in Touch with the Support Group - I want to thank the caring

folks on the board who quickly emailed me and saved me from tossing my

SCOBYs that were floating in the brew with the brown goop. You saved

me from tossing perfectly good SCOBY that are alive and flourishing.

4. Vinegar Bath – I have learned that if you soak the SCOBY in a

vinegar bath for a few minutes before adding it to the new brew to be

fermented and also filter the starter liquid of KT you are using

before adding it as well, you will get a clearer finished second brew.

I have a two gallon jars with a new big fat SCOBYs but the KT was much

clearer than previous batch, and tasted better I might add.

5. Decanting Liquid - I use glass sun tea jars for brewing. I noticed

that my SCOBY was not reproducing very well after about the 6th day of

brewing and I wondered if reducing some of the liquid in the jar might

help. So I decanted about a 1/3 of the liquid in jar out of each. (I

kept the liquid and just added to my KT in the fridge). Boy did this

make a difference! Big fat SCOBYs were produced two days later.

6. Stainless Steel – works just fine. I know everyone says use only

glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot at the

thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

7. Teas – I have discovered that Tetley tea makes a wonderful " British

Style " black tea that does not have string or staples, or strong oils.

It makes a good green tea as well. It comes in both regular and decaf

varieties For 4 ½ quarts of water I use 2 black tea bags and 3 green

bags. I also add 2 orange spice Rooibos tea bags in the brew as well

with no ill effects and wonderful tasting apple cider tea. Rooibos is

the only herbal tea I have had any luck with making KT. I get my tea

at Trader Joes and at Wal-Mart. Until I find an organic tea with no

string and staples I will continue this brew because it really works

and it taste good and the price is right. I cannot believe how much

tea I am going through in my home!

8. Water – I invested in some good storage containers for my water

that I now get from a water dealer here in town that uses an

excellent, state of the art filtering process. I was using distilled

water before, but I have since learned this process is better. I know

it taste better! Shop around though not all water dealers are trust

worthy. I was able to walk into this man's filtering plant and you

could have eaten off the floor it was so clean, and all the equipment

was top notch and NOT sitting on the floor. Also he has an Ozone

process to clean my 5 gallon bottles that keeps everything really

clean. Buying the containers gave me free water for two months as

well. I thought the whole thing was a great deal and we are drinking

much better water now in our home! Here in California our water is

really horrible and it was truly a good investment for my family as

well as my Kombucha babies.

9. Screw Top Wine Glass Bottles- I live near wine country and was able

to obtain screw top glass bottles for about a dollar a bottle. They

are great for storage and have the little " insert " on the cap to

prevent bottles from bursting. So far no bursts.

10. Adding Flavors – My mate will drink KT, but complains about the

vinegar taste, so I added KT to his grape/apple juice, (yes I told him

> ). He is now drinking KT three times a day.

11. Keep it Cheap- Don't use cost as a reason to not make KT. I got free

cultures from the group, went to thirft stores for pots and containers and

use cheap teas and sugar from places like Wal-Mart. Do not let cost be a reason

you

do not improve your family's health. Until you can afford to spend more money

for

the fancy stuff, just get the bare essentials from cheaper places. Doing it

cheaper

is better than not doing it all. I waited way too long to do this thinking

I could not afford it, now I know I can afford it. It is no more expensive

than making sun tea or koolaid, and it is healthy.

Long post but I hope it helps some newbies not make mistakes I did.

Best Wishes,

Kellie

[Guest guest]

Kellie you've given this a lot of thought and it's great to see it

tabulated here. Just a few comments:

>1. Diminishing Returns- you never really get a gallon of finished

>product using a gallon sized jar. I had two gallon bottles brewing and

>between decanting some liquid out of the jars to make more room for

>oxygen (I will explain below), filtering, saving some for the next

>batch starter, and just general spills I ended up with only one gallon

>of finished product. I am not sure what I did to do this but I think

>this time around I used a lot more starter in the new batch to ensure

>success.

Yes, one will never get a gallon's worth of KT from a gallon jar. The

SCOBY takes up room and there needs to be airspace. If you try to fill the

jar to the very top the brew just sits and doesn't ferment.

>2. Don't Toss that Brown Stuff! ­that brown goop floating in your brew

>is NOT mold. I wasted almost two gallons of brew thinking it was " bad "

>because it had some really gross brown yeast all thru the KT. What I

>had was great KT with good yeast count and I tossed the whole batch

>thinking it was bad stuff.

>

>4. Vinegar Bath ­ I have learned that if you soak the SCOBY in a

>vinegar bath for a few minutes before adding it to the new brew to be

>fermented and also filter the starter liquid of KT you are using

>before adding it as well, you will get a clearer finished second brew.

>I have a two gallon jars with a new big fat SCOBYs but the KT was much

>clearer than previous batch, and tasted better I might add.

I want to point out that your points 2 and 4 are related. The vinegar soak

doesn't hurt the SCOBY but it's an extra step. What you're doing here is

washing off/minimizing the yeasts, which are the brown bits from point

#2. Too much yeast leads to sour tastes. Each person will develop their

own rhythm, but one does have to balance how much yeast is carried from

batch to batch.

>5. Decanting Liquid - I use glass sun tea jars for brewing. I noticed

>that my SCOBY was not reproducing very well after about the 6th day of

>brewing and I wondered if reducing some of the liquid in the jar might

>help. So I decanted about a 1/3 of the liquid in jar out of each. (I

>kept the liquid and just added to my KT in the fridge). Boy did this

>make a difference! Big fat SCOBYs were produced two days later.

I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation.

>6. Stainless Steel ­ works just fine. I know everyone says use only

>glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

>ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot at the

>thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

>spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

It's not an issue of it working or not. It's an issue of the KT leaching

metals from the steel and then being ingested when it's drunk.

>7. Teas ­ ... Until I find an organic tea with no

>string and staples I will continue this brew because it really works

>and it taste good and the price is right. I cannot believe how much

>tea I am going through in my home!

I use loose tea. It's much cheaper per use than teabags, and no worries

about staples, strings, chlorine in the paper, etc. Plus a lot fewer

resources went into a loose tea product than all the packaging and handling

of teabags.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

I'm curious - is the stainless reference to brewing the KT or to boiling the

water (and preparing the sweet tea)?

I've found stainless steel works great for boiling the tea water - but use

glass for the brewing itself.

~L

>6. Stainless Steel & shy; works just fine. I know everyone says use only

>glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

>ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot at the

>thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

>spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

It's not an issue of it working or not. It's an issue of the KT leaching

metals from the steel and then being ingested when it's drunk.

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Photos

Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,

whatever.

[Guest guest]

(I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation)

--how much air space is needed?

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

" The SCOBY takes up room and there needs to be airspace. If you try to fill the

jar to the very top the brew just sits and doesn't ferment. "

Oh ohhhhhhh!

Baker wrote:

Kellie you've given this a lot of thought and it's great to see it

tabulated here. Just a few comments:

>1. Diminishing Returns- you never really get a gallon of finished

>product using a gallon sized jar. I had two gallon bottles brewing and

>between decanting some liquid out of the jars to make more room for

>oxygen (I will explain below), filtering, saving some for the next

>batch starter, and just general spills I ended up with only one gallon

>of finished product. I am not sure what I did to do this but I think

>this time around I used a lot more starter in the new batch to ensure

>success.

Yes, one will never get a gallon's worth of KT from a gallon jar. The

SCOBY takes up room and there needs to be airspace. If you try to fill the

jar to the very top the brew just sits and doesn't ferment.

>2. Don't Toss that Brown Stuff! & shy;that brown goop floating in your brew

>is NOT mold. I wasted almost two gallons of brew thinking it was " bad "

>because it had some really gross brown yeast all thru the KT. What I

>had was great KT with good yeast count and I tossed the whole batch

>thinking it was bad stuff.

>

>4. Vinegar Bath & shy; I have learned that if you soak the SCOBY in a

>vinegar bath for a few minutes before adding it to the new brew to be

>fermented and also filter the starter liquid of KT you are using

>before adding it as well, you will get a clearer finished second brew.

>I have a two gallon jars with a new big fat SCOBYs but the KT was much

>clearer than previous batch, and tasted better I might add.

I want to point out that your points 2 and 4 are related. The vinegar soak

doesn't hurt the SCOBY but it's an extra step. What you're doing here is

washing off/minimizing the yeasts, which are the brown bits from point

#2. Too much yeast leads to sour tastes. Each person will develop their

own rhythm, but one does have to balance how much yeast is carried from

batch to batch.

>5. Decanting Liquid - I use glass sun tea jars for brewing. I noticed

>that my SCOBY was not reproducing very well after about the 6th day of

>brewing and I wondered if reducing some of the liquid in the jar might

>help. So I decanted about a 1/3 of the liquid in jar out of each. (I

>kept the liquid and just added to my KT in the fridge). Boy did this

>make a difference! Big fat SCOBYs were produced two days later.

I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation.

>6. Stainless Steel & shy; works just fine. I know everyone says use only

>glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

>ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot at the

>thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

>spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

It's not an issue of it working or not. It's an issue of the KT leaching

metals from the steel and then being ingested when it's drunk.

>7. Teas & shy; ... Until I find an organic tea with no

>string and staples I will continue this brew because it really works

>and it taste good and the price is right. I cannot believe how much

>tea I am going through in my home!

I use loose tea. It's much cheaper per use than teabags, and no worries

about staples, strings, chlorine in the paper, etc. Plus a lot fewer

resources went into a loose tea product than all the packaging and handling

of teabags.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>

>(I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

>the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

>if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation)

>

> --how much air space is needed?

Everything I've seen says 1.5 inches above the surface of the

SCOBY/brew. What I've seen in my own brewing is that the 1.5 inches should

be counted *below* where the jar narrows at the top for best results. I

only get 5 pints of KT to drink from a gal-size jar. It yields 6 pints (3

quarts, or 3/4 gal), but one pint has to be used for starter. I could

possibly squeeze out a bit more but I tend to allow my SCOBYs to pile up to

an inch or so.

btw, the phrase " diminishing returns " is a bit of a negative

misnomer. That phrase properly means that you get less and less return for

all inputs. That's not the case with KT. You get out what you put in,

basically.

--V

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Thanks, --do you think maybe that's why I haven't seen any new

Scoby's if the top of my brew is about 1 " below the top of my sun tea jars?

If so, is it possible to revive them if I remove some of the liquid? Thanks

-- Re: Diminishing Returns and Other Lessons Learned

>

>(I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

>the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

>if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation)

>

> --how much air space is needed?

Everything I've seen says 1.5 inches above the surface of the

SCOBY/brew. What I've seen in my own brewing is that the 1.5 inches should

be counted *below* where the jar narrows at the top for best results. I

only get 5 pints of KT to drink from a gal-size jar. It yields 6 pints (3

quarts, or 3/4 gal), but one pint has to be used for starter. I could

possibly squeeze out a bit more but I tend to allow my SCOBYs to pile up to

an inch or so.

btw, the phrase " diminishing returns " is a bit of a negative

misnomer. That phrase properly means that you get less and less return for

all inputs. That's not the case with KT. You get out what you put in,

basically.

--V

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

I had an experience where I forgot to leave enough room, and my new scoby grew

to touch the cloth and got quite attached! Luckily, I caught it early enough

before anything else happened... (i.e. no mold, thankfully.)

It was like ripping a bandaid that had stuck onto a wound... ouch! If it were

to happen again, I'd soak KT or pasteurized apple cider vinegar on top of the

cloth to help loosen the poor scoby, then put a new, clean cloth...

I agree about the misnomer... Perhaps when we instruct others about 1 gallon

containers, in the recipe, we might state, as you have done so:

" Yields approximately 6 pints brewed KT, of which at least 1 pint is to be

used as starter for next brew... "

~Lusana

Baker wrote:

>

>(I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an airspace in

>the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects the brew

>if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation)

>

> --how much air space is needed?

Everything I've seen says 1.5 inches above the surface of the

SCOBY/brew. What I've seen in my own brewing is that the 1.5 inches should

be counted *below* where the jar narrows at the top for best results. I

only get 5 pints of KT to drink from a gal-size jar. It yields 6 pints (3

quarts, or 3/4 gal), but one pint has to be used for starter. I could

possibly squeeze out a bit more but I tend to allow my SCOBYs to pile up to

an inch or so.

btw, the phrase " diminishing returns " is a bit of a negative

misnomer. That phrase properly means that you get less and less return for

all inputs. That's not the case with KT. You get out what you put in,

basically.

--V

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

> Thanks, --do you think maybe that's why I haven't seen any new

>Scoby's if the top of my brew is about 1 " below the top of my sun tea jars?

>If so, is it possible to revive them if I remove some of the liquid? Thanks

>

I really don't know because there are so many possible factors, but I do

know my brews and SCOBYs don't do well unless they've got lots of

headroom. If the top of your brew is only 1 " below the rim of the jar,

that probably means that the SCOBY comes up into the curved, narrowing part

of the jar. It should definitely be at least an inch lower than the spot

where it narrows if you want to find out if this is a factor.

You should try it, which means next time you make up a batch you need to

reduce everything proportionately. If you want to do it immediately, you

could actually pour some of the existing batch into a quart mason jar and

cover it with cloth... you'll wind up with a new SCOBY and some brew.

Don't forget though, the cooler temperatures of winter have a negative

effect on almost everyone's SCOBYs.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Yeah, me too. Maybe that is a factor on why my scoby isn't forming and the

tea is still sweet! I shall have to remedy this!

>

>

>

> Oh ohhhhhhh!

--

D. Siemens

WAPF Chapter Leader

http://www.freewebs.com/wapfontario/index.htm

Wife of Tim, Mother of Zack and Lydia, Child of God.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, me too. Maybe that is a factor on why my scoby isn't forming and the

tea is still sweet! I shall have to remedy this!

>

>

>

> Oh ohhhhhhh!

--

D. Siemens

WAPF Chapter Leader

http://www.freewebs.com/wapfontario/index.htm

Wife of Tim, Mother of Zack and Lydia, Child of God.

[Guest guest]

Yoikes am I glad that Kellie wrote up her notes. This is a really

important aspect to brewing. I've had SCOBYs puff up through the opening

when there's not enough space, but also I've had them refuse to really

grow. No doubt various factors influencing.

--V

>Yeah, me too. Maybe that is a factor on why my scoby isn't forming and the

>tea is still sweet! I shall have to remedy this!

>

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Yoikes am I glad that Kellie wrote up her notes. This is a really

important aspect to brewing. I've had SCOBYs puff up through the opening

when there's not enough space, but also I've had them refuse to really

grow. No doubt various factors influencing.

--V

>Yeah, me too. Maybe that is a factor on why my scoby isn't forming and the

>tea is still sweet! I shall have to remedy this!

>

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

hi L.

I should have added " works fine for boiling water " . I ONLY brew in

glass. But I do boil my water in Stainless Steel. And I totally agree

with , it is about leaching, that is the main concern. I would

never brew in any metal object. I only boil water in

it and for the record I place the boiling water in the sun tea jars

and steep the tea in the glass just to be extra careful (tea is

slightly acidic even without SCOBY in it). I know I may be getting

some metal in my water (hence I buy very good water, 2 parts per

million), but I have read that Stainless Steel does not leach and is

fine for boiling the water for making KT and even preferred by many,

but I maybe wrong.

One thing I do know, as soon as I can find an affordable Glass boiling

pot I will buy it, but for my budget right now I had to make a

decision, using stainless steel or not making it at all. The Stainless

Steel pot was the only way I could afford getting the tea at this time

in the quantities my family needs, I have three adults drinking it

right now.

do you have a good source for loose organic tea on the web?

Also how do you filter it? Do you use coffee filters paper? I have

been concerned about the bleaches they use in the paper, but wanted to

ask you how you are doing it. Also I worry about the fibers in regular

paper towels, I have no idea how they treat those papers in their

processing plant so I am not sure what is better the loose tea or the

bags. What are your thoughts?

thanks,

Kellie

>

> I'm curious - is the stainless reference to brewing the KT or to

boiling the water (and preparing the sweet tea)?

>

> I've found stainless steel works great for boiling the tea water -

but use glass for the brewing itself.

>

> ~L

>

>

> >6. Stainless Steel & shy; works just fine. I know everyone says

use only

> >glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

> >ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot

at the

> >thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

> >spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

>

> It's not an issue of it working or not. It's an issue of the KT

leaching

> metals from the steel and then being ingested when it's drunk.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Photos

> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events,

holidays, whatever.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Oh OH is what I said as soon as I saw my SCOBY growing

bigger. I will only be filling about 3/4 full or less now, and so with

the starter batch and the extra space, it doesn't even come to 3

quarts of new tea I am using per gallon. I thought I was interesting

and probably a common mistake other newbies make.

Kellie

> Kellie you've given this a lot of thought and it's great to see it

> tabulated here. Just a few comments:

>

> >1. Diminishing Returns- you never really get a gallon of finished

> >product using a gallon sized jar. I had two gallon bottles brewing and

> >between decanting some liquid out of the jars to make more room for

> >oxygen (I will explain below), filtering, saving some for the next

> >batch starter, and just general spills I ended up with only one gallon

> >of finished product. I am not sure what I did to do this but I think

> >this time around I used a lot more starter in the new batch to ensure

> >success.

>

> Yes, one will never get a gallon's worth of KT from a gallon jar. The

> SCOBY takes up room and there needs to be airspace. If you try to

fill the

> jar to the very top the brew just sits and doesn't ferment.

>

> >2. Don't Toss that Brown Stuff! & shy;that brown goop floating in

your brew

> >is NOT mold. I wasted almost two gallons of brew thinking it was " bad "

> >because it had some really gross brown yeast all thru the KT. What I

> >had was great KT with good yeast count and I tossed the whole batch

> >thinking it was bad stuff.

> >

> >4. Vinegar Bath & shy; I have learned that if you soak the SCOBY in a

> >vinegar bath for a few minutes before adding it to the new brew to be

> >fermented and also filter the starter liquid of KT you are using

> >before adding it as well, you will get a clearer finished second brew.

> >I have a two gallon jars with a new big fat SCOBYs but the KT was much

> >clearer than previous batch, and tasted better I might add.

>

> I want to point out that your points 2 and 4 are related. The

vinegar soak

> doesn't hurt the SCOBY but it's an extra step. What you're doing

here is

> washing off/minimizing the yeasts, which are the brown bits from point

> #2. Too much yeast leads to sour tastes. Each person will develop

their

> own rhythm, but one does have to balance how much yeast is carried from

> batch to batch.

>

> >5. Decanting Liquid - I use glass sun tea jars for brewing. I noticed

> >that my SCOBY was not reproducing very well after about the 6th day of

> >brewing and I wondered if reducing some of the liquid in the jar might

> >help. So I decanted about a 1/3 of the liquid in jar out of each. (I

> >kept the liquid and just added to my KT in the fridge). Boy did this

> >make a difference! Big fat SCOBYs were produced two days later.

>

> I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an

airspace in

> the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects

the brew

> if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation.

>

> >6. Stainless Steel & shy; works just fine. I know everyone says use only

> >glass containers and only stainless steel if you cannot find Corning

> >ware. I was able to get a really nice Stainless Steel 5-quart pot

at the

> >thrift store and it is working great. I just cannot afford right now to

> >spend 60 dollars for a Corning ware pot, and this is just fine.

>

> It's not an issue of it working or not. It's an issue of the KT

leaching

> metals from the steel and then being ingested when it's drunk.

>

> >7. Teas & shy; ... Until I find an organic tea with no

> >string and staples I will continue this brew because it really works

> >and it taste good and the price is right. I cannot believe how much

> >tea I am going through in my home!

>

> I use loose tea. It's much cheaper per use than teabags, and no

worries

> about staples, strings, chlorine in the paper, etc. Plus a lot fewer

> resources went into a loose tea product than all the packaging and

handling

> of teabags.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think part of the problem is a lot of the information and pictures

on the web are confusing. I have seen pics of SCOBY right up to the

mouth of the jar. I was giving about an inch of clearance from opening

of the mouth, but found that just was not enough space. Now I am going

down to the part of the sun tea jar where it at the widest (they taper

up and then about a inch below that just for good measure.

Kellie

>

>

>

> (I guess I'm shocked that anyone is trying to brew without an

airspace in

> the vessel. I thought that was well known. It definitely affects

the brew

> if there isn't space left, including SCOBY formation)

>

> --how much air space is needed?

>

>

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hey I was just trying to find a catchy phrase to get everyone's

attention...my daughter the English Major thought it was cute

Kellie

> btw, the phrase " diminishing returns " is a bit of a negative

> misnomer. That phrase properly means that you get less and less

return for

> all inputs. That's not the case with KT. You get out what you put in,

> basically.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

I use the enamal pots you can buy at Walmart and elsewhere. These pots are

approved by Dr. 's protocols as they do not contaminate the water/tea with

metals.

RR

" The only thing that seems to have permanence is a temporary solution. "

Rice, Jan 2006

kelrivas wrote:

... But I do boil my water in Stainless Steel. ... as soon as I can find an

affordable Glass boiling

pot I will buy it...

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

[Guest guest]

Ah, ok. It's true that various websites and books say different

things. My experience of this list though is that people here really do

know what they are talking about. What is considered best practice

evolves over time with better understanding, and we still all have our

individual needs and methods.

But I think airspace is one we all agree on.

--V

>I think part of the problem is a lot of the information and pictures

>on the web are confusing. I have seen pics of SCOBY right up to the

>mouth of the jar. I was giving about an inch of clearance from opening

>of the mouth, but found that just was not enough space. Now I am going

>down to the part of the sun tea jar where it at the widest (they taper

> up and then about a inch below that just for good measure.

>Kellie

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

and how much airspace is the agreed upon amount? :-)

I use a 2 gallon anchor hocking, apothocary type jar.

How far down would be good air space?

thanks so much!

Marcia

>

> Ah, ok. It's true that various websites and books say different

> things. My experience of this list though is that people here

really do

> know what they are talking about. What is considered best

practice

> evolves over time with better understanding, and we still all have

our

> individual needs and methods.

>

> But I think airspace is one we all agree on.

>

> --V

>

> >I think part of the problem is a lot of the information and

pictures

> >on the web are confusing. I have seen pics of SCOBY right up to the

> >mouth of the jar. I was giving about an inch of clearance from

opening

> >of the mouth, but found that just was not enough space. Now I am

going

> >down to the part of the sun tea jar where it at the widest (they

taper

> > up and then about a inch below that just for good measure.

> >Kellie

>

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

>I should have added " works fine for boiling water " . I ONLY brew in

>glass. But I do boil my water in Stainless Steel.

Most of us boil in stainless steel. I do not believe there is any problem

with that and would not encourage people to spend money on glass boilers

unless money is very free flowing.

> do you have a good source for loose organic tea on the web?

I'm sorry I don't, I buy it through our co-op. Someone else may have a

good source. The brands I buy through the co-op have been Choice and

Frontier, both have been quite satisfactory.

>Also how do you filter it? Do you use coffee filters paper? I have

>been concerned about the bleaches they use in the paper, but wanted to

>ask you how you are doing it. Also I worry about the fibers in regular

>paper towels, I have no idea how they treat those papers in their

>processing plant so I am not sure what is better the loose tea or the

>bags. What are your thoughts?

I use a stainless steel funnel that has a removable strainer in it, and

there are many stainless steel strainers on the market. The loose tea

leaves don't have to be filtered out, only strained out, because they are

big enough to get caught. Another possibility would be those bamboo tea

strainers that are made in China and come in several types and sizes. So I

don't use fabric or paper to pour my tea or KT through, at all. (My

partner also uses a bamboo tea strainer to filter KT before drinking.)

Remember too I only brew my tea leaves in a pint or two of water,

strain/sugar it, then add that to the bulk of my water for the brew. So

I'm not handling large quantities of liquid for that step.

I only buy tea in bags if I really want a particular flavor or blend, but

most of the time I mix my own herbs from bulk purchases at the local

natural food stores (chamomile, peppermint, raspberry leaf, rose hips, gotu

kola, etc.). We use a French press for coffee making. We live in what was

once the redwood temperate rainforest of the Pacific Northwest USA, which

has now been mostly mowed down, so we're extra conscious of paper use and

what it means to run out of natural resources. Recycling, reuse, and low

use are our daily living mottoes. And, then I don't have to worry about

paper content/contact. And the loose tea is waaaaaayyyyy cheaper per tsp

of tea.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

The space I know is 1.5 inches. My rule for myself is to try to make it

1.5 inches below where the narrowing starts to happen, but it's sometimes

less than that. It really works better with more space.

--V

At 08:30 PM 1/26/2006, you wrote:

>and how much airspace is the agreed upon amount? :-)

>I use a 2 gallon anchor hocking, apothocary type jar.

>How far down would be good air space?

>thanks so much!

>Marcia

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste