Re: Re: MMS for Melanoma

[Guest guest]

Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hi Tom, Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things?thanks again,AnneI can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms.>

[Guest guest]

Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc.

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Anne,Oxidative stress from chlorine dioxide, chlorite, and chlorate results in reduced red blood cells, reduced total volume of blood cells, and reduced hemoglobin. In addition, the red blood cells become more fragile and prone to break down. This is based upon long term studies (2 - 24 months) done on animals. No human studies have been done on this.In addition, no studies were done on chlorous acid (which is what MMS forms).These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials used to make these determinations are published and open for review, whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his claims from are not.Tom>> Hi Tom, > Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things?> > thanks again,> Anne> > > > I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms.> >>

[Guest guest]

Geeze, can they be any worse than what Chemo and Radiation therapy do to cells?

What medicine that the Medical Powers-That-Be approves of and directs people to use, doesn't come with a list of side-effects as long as your arm these days?

Some of the reactions are so bad, and can make you so sick, that they have to switch you to another 'approved' drug, -and hope it doesn't do the same thing. And charge you and/or your insurance company a fortune for the priviledge.

I'll take me chances, ya know? :-)

~Rod

Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc.

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Anne,Oxidative stress from chlorine dioxide, chlorite, and chlorate results in reduced red blood cells, reduced total volume of blood cells, and reduced hemoglobin. In addition, the red blood cells become more fragile and prone to break down. This is based upon long term studies (2 - 24 months) done on animals. No human studies have been done on this.In addition, no studies were done on chlorous acid (which is what MMS forms).These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials used to make these determinations are published and open for review, whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his claims from are not.Tom>> Hi Tom, > Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things?> > thanks again,> Anne> > > > I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms.> >>

[Guest guest]

Very true, Surveydog,

I definitly have been better educated about MMS since Tom has been sharing his knowledge about it. It's nice to have an affordable shot at getting better, but it's also nice to learn about the science behind it.

At least, as I said in my last post, -I feel better informed when I do "take me chances" with MMS.

As always, -thanks again, Tom.

~Rod

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Keycross ~ if Toms comments don't ring true to you then why don't you just ignore them rather than get keyed up wanting evidence, reports, studies etc. He is just sharing with the group what he has found out about MMS and we all choose whether or not we want to take these findings into consideration or not. Its just another persons perspective that is all.>> Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc.> Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc

[Guest guest]

I agree: This would be equivalent to saying that NO is the same

thing and has the same effects as NO2 because they both contain

Nitrogen and Oxygen. It has been a long time since I took inorganic

chemistry, but I know better better than to equate the two.

Keycross wrote:

Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are

two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide

poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc

-----

Original Message -----

From:

surveydog04

To:

Sent:

Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:38 PM

Subject:

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hi Tom,

Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you

talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of

this? Basically the same things?

thanks again,

Anne

I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide

poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and

chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are

asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms.

>

[Guest guest]

Jim Humble goes through all of this thoroughly on his tapes and though

his is not a chemist,  what he says rings true.

Rod Zorger wrote:

 

Geeze, can they be any worse than what Chemo and Radiation therapy

do to cells?

 

What medicine that the Medical Powers-That-Be approves of and

directs people to use, doesn't come with a list of

side-effects as long as your arm these days?

 

Some of the reactions are so bad, and can make you so sick, that

they have to switch you to another 'approved' drug, -and hope it

doesn't do the same thing. And charge you and/or your insurance company

a fortune for the priviledge.

 

I'll take me chances, ya know? :-)

~Rod

-----Original

Message-----

From: Keycross

Sent: Apr 26, 2010 1:58 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

 

Show the group the long term

studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc.

-----

Original Message -----

From:

silverfox_science

To:

Sent:

Monday, April 26, 2010 11:45 AM

Subject:

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

 

Hello Anne,

Oxidative stress from chlorine dioxide, chlorite, and chlorate results

in reduced red blood cells, reduced total volume of blood cells, and

reduced hemoglobin. In addition, the red blood cells become more

fragile and prone to break down. This is based upon long term studies

(2 - 24 months) done on animals. No human studies have been done on

this.

In addition, no studies were done on chlorous acid (which is what MMS

forms).

These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does not

damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials used to

make these determinations are published and open for review, whereas

Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his claims from are

not.

Tom

>

> Hi Tom,

> Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but

when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the

signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things?

>

> thanks again,

> Anne

>

>

>

> I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide

poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and

chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are

asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think i should just ignore someone's comments that cannot be backed up by supposedly studies, etc

that are available to the person that based his comments on same.

What if I just arbitrarily said that MMS1 just killed my neighbor only after two days of using 3 activated drops every 4 hours. That they vomited violently and then suffered an angonizing death by suffocation. So you should just ignore my comments because they don't ring true even though I just made it up to scare everyone in the group. If they can't produce documented evidence to back up their comments then they probably are just a disinformation plant.

[ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Keycross ~ if Toms comments don't ring true to you then why don't you just ignore them rather than get keyed up wanting evidence, reports, studies etc. He is just sharing with the group what he has found out about MMS and we all choose whether or not we want to take these findings into consideration or not. Its just another persons perspective that is all.>> Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc.> Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc

[Guest guest]

On 2010-04-26 11:45 AM, silverfox_science wrote:

> These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does

> not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials

> used to make these determinations are published and open for review,

> whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his

> claims from are not.

Saul Pressman on the oxyplus list once made this same claim - ie, that

these studies showed that MMS was dangerous and caused 'crimping' in red

blood cells. He also included links to the studies, which I actually

went and read the summaries.

They used concentrations that were literally *thousands* of times the

levels achieved when using MMS, so unless you are talking about other

studies, those don't mean much...

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the only studies that I ever saw

claiming damage to red blood cells used concentrations that were orders

of magnitude higher than what MMS users use...

--

[Guest guest]

Hope, I think you look at this incorrectly. You see what I, or anyone else says about precaution, as something negative about MMS. That's wrong. It's not negative at all--it's merely precautions that everyone should be aware of.

I've never said MMS doesn't work, or is too dangerous, or whatever. I simply talk about precautions. It's the same as saying "if you take too much C you will get diarrhea, so be careful and start slow".

You seem to view anything outside of high praise as knocking MMS. I don't know why you feel that way. There are just too many people that dive into things without doing the research you and I others do--they just hear "this worked for me" and so immediately want 'that miracle thing' and have zero idea of the side effects, consequences or what could happen if taken too much or too often.

This is not just with MMS, it's with everything. How many times do people take too much of something and feel sick from a too fast detox, and then they go telling everything "that doesn't work, it made me sick". THAT is disinformation. It does no one any good, because if they had used the product correctly their 'sickness' would probably not have happened.

You are exactly right in that we should stress good diet, good water, air, sunshine, exercise. But people don't want to hear that. They want to hear how the 'miracle product is going to cure me TONIGHT'. So--I give the warnings.

Would I feel horrible if I didn't tell someone about the need for C, and then they took a heart attack simply because they were lacking enough C to begin with and MMS stripped the rest from their heart? You betcha. Because I KNOW a guy that started the MMS protocol and immediately felt it in his heart. At first he wasn't sure what it was--until he started tracking when it was happening. I am NOT going to take responsibility for hurting someone by withholding information that you deem focuses on the negative.

By giving precautions, we are not scaring people into not taking MMS, but hopefully 'scaring' them into taking more responsibility for their health and 'scaring' them into being aware when they DO take MMS. I have yet for anyone I've to tell me "I'm not going to take this MMS" after I've told them of the precautions.

You make it sound like we are scaring people away. I simply don't see it that way. As I've said I have yet to have anyone cancel their order, or stop using MMS.

I always tell people about my success with MMS. How it took tumors from 2 of my cats, how it gave my old dog much more energy, how it cured my tooth infection. So why do you focus on the 'negativity' of my precautions?

I simply will not be responsible for selling something to someone without giving them the REAL, POSSIBLE side effects. As I said--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I neglected to tell someone about the heart/C problem, even if it is just a slight possibility, just because I wanted to make MMS sound like THE miracle product of the century and make a lousy ten bucks. Sorry, I won't do that for you or anyone.

Yes, you've gotten great benefit from MMS. That's wonderful. So have I and so have hundreds if not thousands of others--but not everyone has had only positive effects, and not everyone has been cured of all their troubles by MMS. It always sounds like you have cured all your health issues with MMS. That's wonderful, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone is so lucky. There have been people quit taking AMMS because they just couldn't tolerate the taste/smell/nausea/diarrhea any longer and they gave it a REAL try--always hoping for the cure you got, but they didn't.

Even at Jim's new protocol--which he changed DUE to more and better information from those getting so sick on the old protocol--still bothers SOME people. Not everyone, but some. There is no miracle cure. There is common sense. And when I start some new protocol or product or whatever--I want to know all the possibilities of what can go wrong along with what can go right. Only then can I choose what is best for me--when I have ALL the information. Not just the glossy parts, but the dark parts too. It's ALL a balancing act. No two human body systems are the same, no two will have the same reaction/response. That is why it is important to know both sides to an issue. No one outside of you, afaik or have been told by the numerous people that write me, sees these posts as focusing on the negative aspect of MMS.

The picture has to be balanced. If you are going to continue to claim that MMS is the answer to everything, without giving due precautions, then I suppose you will continue to see my precautions as negative information about MMS. I see it as being balanced and truthful. You've been on it since the end of 08. I've been involved with it since August of 07, have watched hundreds of people on the MDI list, and then this list, go through every imaginable aspect of MMS, many with results such as yours and just as many without such results, and many with in between results. It's a full spectrum.

I would never be without MMS. I tell people that. I think every household should have at least one bottle of MMS. I tell them that. I now really appreciate the information Tom has given us about a safer, easier way to use MMS. I tell them that. I STILL add the precautions about antioxidants and probiotics. I will always do that. I'm sorry that you feel I am knocking MMS, or scaring people away.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

Agree but it seems to me that the negative is the focus not the positive effect this has had on so many and their lives.

[Guest guest]

Very valid info. Could be exactly as you say about the MMS clearing the arteries. Still, the man who took the MMS and felt the heart palpitations was on C. In fact, he had been on massive amounts of C due to the salt/C protocol for lyme. He felt like the MMS stripped the C from the heart (he's very sensitive), and as soon as he added more C he felt better. He actually did stop taking the MMS. He keeps his bottle for emergencies, but no longer tries to take it on any sort of regular basis.

So--stripping C, or removing deposits too fast. Both need to be noted as a side effect of MMS. Serapatase (sp) is noted for cleaning clogged arteries by dissolving plaque. One man on the list thought this a wonderful idea and began to take a lot of it. Yep, it did just as it said it worked, stripped off a chunk of plaque that traveled and gave him a stroke.

So--sepapatase and MMS--apparently for whatever reason--stripping C or stripping plaque--need to have C added to the protocol. Hence--my recommendations. Whichever path takes them there, I could care less--just so long as they get there. :-)

samala,

www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt

Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps

you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here

-------Original Message-------

I have to express my opinion on Vit C being stripped from the heart with MMS. From my readings and study I found the Vit C will strengthen artery walls, still arguable by some. I also have read that MMS will strip the plaque from the walls and that is the reason Vit C is so important before extensive oxidation with MMS.

[Guest guest]

On 2010-04-27 10:50 PM, healinghope wrote:

> SAFETY ISSUES

> http://www.malariainitiative.com/286/malaria-treatment-science/safety-issues/

> SAFETY ISSUES

> A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the

> dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified

> sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some

> have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface

> seem to suffer no ill effects.

Wow - once to 3 times WEEKLY?

This isn't how MMS is being used, so is meaningless as a comparison...

--

[Guest guest]

On 2010-04-27 7:38 PM, silverfox_science wrote:

> Hello ,

>

> PPM = mg/l = mg/kg

>

> Yes, that is how concentration measurements are done.

Thanks Tom, that clears that up...

--

[Guest guest]

Wow, thank you for that info . My partner had a stroke 3 months into taking Serrapeptase high dose along with another supplement to do the same thing. I forget why he was taking it, possibly to help his Type 2 diabetes, he never had a history of stroke or anything else apart from the diabetes, so it was a real shock. Was basically healthy before it. I had suspected that the Serrapeptase had something to do with it. Now i've heard its happened to someone else, I am even more convinced. However I could still be wrong, but thanks for posting that info. I am learning a lot from this group!ValFrom: <gaiacita@...> Sent: Wed, 28 April, 2010 18:22:52Subject: Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Very valid info. Could be exactly as you say about the MMS clearing the arteries. Still, the man who took the MMS and felt the heart palpitations was on C. In fact, he had been on massive amounts of C due to the salt/C protocol for lyme. He felt like the MMS stripped the C from the heart (he's very sensitive), and as soon as he added more C he felt better. He actually did stop taking the MMS. He keeps his bottle for emergencies, but no longer tries to take it on any sort of regular basis.

So--stripping C, or removing deposits too fast. Both need to be noted as a side effect of MMS. Serapatase (sp) is noted for cleaning clogged arteries by dissolving plaque. One man on the list thought this a wonderful idea and began to take a lot of it. Yep, it did just as it said it worked, stripped off a chunk of plaque that traveled and gave him a stroke.

So--sepapatase and MMS--apparently for whatever reason--stripping C or stripping plaque--need to have C added to the protocol. Hence--my recommendations. Whichever path takes them there, I could care less--just so long as they get there. :-)

samala,

www.eamega.com/ RPainManageEnt

Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps

you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here

-------Original Message----- --

I have to express my opinion on Vit C being stripped from the heart with MMS. From my readings and study I found the Vit C will strengthen artery walls, still arguable by some. I also have read that MMS will strip the plaque from the walls and that is the reason Vit C is so important before extensive oxidation with MMS.

[Guest guest]

Hi .Should I give a person on a 10 hour a day protocol some roibous antioxidant tea and vitamin C in the evenings?S.From: <gaiacita@...> Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 4:55:48 PMSubject: Re: [ ]

Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hope, I think you look at this incorrectly. You see what I, or anyone else says about precaution, as something negative about MMS. That's wrong. It's not negative at all--it's merely precautions that everyone should be aware of.

I've never said MMS doesn't work, or is too dangerous, or whatever. I simply talk about precautions. It's the same as saying "if you take too much C you will get diarrhea, so be careful and start slow".

You seem to view anything outside of high praise as knocking MMS. I don't know why you feel that way. There are just too many people that dive into things without doing the research you and I others do--they just hear "this worked for me" and so immediately want 'that miracle thing' and have zero idea of the side effects, consequences or what could happen if taken too much or too often.

This is not just with MMS, it's with everything. How many times do people take too much of something and feel sick from a too fast detox, and then they go telling everything "that doesn't work, it made me sick". THAT is disinformation. It does no one any good, because if they had used the product correctly their 'sickness' would probably not have happened.

You are exactly right in that we should stress good diet, good water, air, sunshine, exercise. But people don't want to hear that. They want to hear how the 'miracle product is going to cure me TONIGHT'. So--I give the warnings.

Would I feel horrible if I didn't tell someone about the need for C, and then they took a heart attack simply because they were lacking enough C to begin with and MMS stripped the rest from their heart? You betcha. Because I KNOW a guy that started the MMS protocol and immediately felt it in his heart. At first he wasn't sure what it was--until he started tracking when it was happening. I am NOT going to take responsibility for hurting someone by withholding information that you deem focuses on the negative.

By giving precautions, we are not scaring people into not taking MMS, but hopefully 'scaring' them into taking more responsibility for their health and 'scaring' them into being aware when they DO take MMS. I have yet for anyone I've to tell me "I'm not going to take this MMS" after I've told them of the precautions.

You make it sound like we are scaring people away. I simply don't see it that way. As I've said I have yet to have anyone cancel their order, or stop using MMS.

I always tell people about my success with MMS. How it took tumors from 2 of my cats, how it gave my old dog much more energy, how it cured my tooth infection. So why do you focus on the 'negativity' of my precautions?

I simply will not be responsible for selling something to someone without giving them the REAL, POSSIBLE side effects. As I said--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I neglected to tell someone about the heart/C problem, even if it is just a slight possibility, just because I wanted to make MMS sound like THE miracle product of the century and make a lousy ten bucks. Sorry, I won't do that for you or anyone.

Yes, you've gotten great benefit from MMS. That's wonderful. So have I and so have hundreds if not thousands of others--but not everyone has had only positive effects, and not everyone has been cured of all their troubles by MMS. It always sounds like you have cured all your health issues with MMS. That's wonderful, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone is so lucky. There have been people quit taking AMMS because they just couldn't tolerate the taste/smell/ nausea/diarrhea any longer and they gave it a REAL try--always hoping for the cure you got, but they didn't.

Even at Jim's new protocol--which he changed DUE to more and better information from those getting so sick on the old protocol--still bothers SOME people. Not everyone, but some. There is no miracle cure. There is common sense. And when I start some new protocol or product or whatever--I want to know all the possibilities of what can go wrong along with what can go right. Only then can I choose what is best for me--when I have ALL the information. Not just the glossy parts, but the dark parts too. It's ALL a balancing act. No two human body systems are the same, no two will have the same reaction/response. That is why it is important to know both sides to an issue. No one outside of you, afaik or have been told by the numerous people that write me, sees these posts as focusing on the negative aspect of MMS.

The picture has to be balanced. If you are going to continue to claim that MMS is the answer to everything, without giving due precautions, then I suppose you will continue to see my precautions as negative information about MMS. I see it as being balanced and truthful. You've been on it since the end of 08. I've been involved with it since August of 07, have watched hundreds of people on the MDI list, and then this list, go through every imaginable aspect of MMS, many with results such as yours and just as many without such results, and many with in between results. It's a full spectrum.

I would never be without MMS. I tell people that. I think every household should have at least one bottle of MMS. I tell them that. I now really appreciate the information Tom has given us about a safer, easier way to use MMS. I tell them that. I STILL add the precautions about antioxidants and probiotics. I will always do that. I'm sorry that you feel I am knocking MMS, or scaring people away.

Samala,

-------Original Message----- --

Agree but it seems to me that the negative is the focus not the positive effect this has had on so many and their lives.

[Guest guest]

I certainly would.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

Should I give a person on a 10 hour a day protocol some roibous antioxidant tea and vitamin C in the evenings?

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Are there ways to determine oxidative stress by physical signs. If the only way is through blood tests what kind of blood tests? And would this be possible since most doctors would probably not be approving of taking MMS

Thanks for all your excellent info on this site.

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:09:39 AMSubject: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Healinghope,Did you read what Dr. Hesselink wrote?He has safety concerns.It looks good for people taking these solutions when they take them 1 - 3 times a week.Frequent blood tests should be done to monitor for oxidative stress.More study is needed to determine the safety of more frequent and long term use.Contrast this with Jim Humbles instructions to take a dose every hour and it is perfectly safe to ingest high concentrations of chlorous acid because low concentrations of chlorine dioxide are approved for use in water purification. , Dr. Hesselink, and I have had discussed this and I am waiting to see if they will share the results of their 1 - 3 times a week efforts. I have been told that their early efforts "look promising" but have no further details.Tom> >> > SAFETY ISSUES> > http://www.malariai nitiative. com/286/malaria- treatment- science/safety- issues/> > SAFETY ISSUES> > A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally,

the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure and refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol

exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate -dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses.

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much Tom. Your explanation is most helpful.

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 8:09:11 PMSubject: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Agnes,Chlorine dioxide quickly (within seconds to minutes) breaks down to chlorite. I believe the same happens with chlorous acid.Chlorite, in animals, initially results in a quick reduction in blood cell volume, followed by an increase in blood cell volume. However, if chlorite exposure is continued over a longer period of time, there is a general reduction in blood cell volume, and the blood cells become more fragile.Blood tests can determine blood cell volume changes. Beyond that we simply have to look at how your body functions when there are less red and white blood cells. With less blood cells, there should be less oxygen in the blood. Less oxygen should result in a loss of energy and possibly a loss of mental clarity and function. In addition the pulse rate may increase to make up for the loss of oxygen.This is how this was explained to me by several medical professionals. I am not a medical

professional, so I can not evaluate how accurate it is, but it sounds reasonable.Moving over to ingesting high concentrations of chlorous acid, there is the possibility of removing parts of the stomach and intestinal lining, but I don't think there have been any studies that look at this. Chlorine dioxide is very effective at removing biofilm, and chlorous acid may be more effective than chlorine dioxide. Since the mucous lining of the GI tract is basically a biofilm, it is reasonable to be cautious with a chlorous acid solution.If the mucous of the GI tract was reduced or eliminated, I would think that there would be a general nausea followed by diarrhea. With the diarrhea would come the inability to absorb vitamins and minerals from food or supplements and that would lead to a further feeling of being run down.If you read the experiences of people following the MMS protocol, you will find that a few days into the protocol,

there are many reports of people feeling on top of the world. They have renewed energy and are very optimistic toward their condition and with life in general.I believe that this is the point where they have achieved higher blood cell volume. I think that at this point they should stop taking the chlorous acid and give their bodies a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens. When surfing, you paddle hard as the wave forms below you, but once you catch the wave you simple ride it to the beach. No more paddling is needed.Anecdotally, we have used this approach with animals with great success. However, we have very limited data with people. While the theory is sound, I don't have the biomedical background to know if the same results can be expected in people.I have done some preliminary testing on this and there does seem to be some measurable changes that can be observed. My resting pulse

is in the 45 - 50 beats per minute range. I picked up a pulseoximeter and determined that my oxygen saturation at rest is 95 - 96%. After I ingest a chlorous acid solution, the oxygen saturation increases to 97 - 98% at the same pulse rate. Under normal conditions, such as when walking, my pulse rate increases to the 55 - 60 beats per minute range and my oxygen saturation is in the 98 - 99% range. If this testing is valid, it would indicate that there could be a relationship between chlorous acid and blood oxygen levels. While the best idea of how this works involves an increase in blood cell volume, it may be argued that this is what is going on. Once we dial this in and observe repeatable results with several people, I will run it by a medical professional to see what holes can be blown in the theory. For now, it is simply an interesting observation.This is my take on oxidative stress, but I tend to focus on short term (seconds,

minutes and hours). I am sure that there is a lot more to this, and long term effects need to be considered too. The best way to learn about this is to spend some time discussing it with a medical professional. Tom> > >> > > SAFETY ISSUES> > > http://www.malariai nitiative. com/286/malaria- treatment- science/safety- issues/> > > SAFETY ISSUES> > > A remaining

concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure> and

refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate -dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses.>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I would like to receive if possible some further clarification on some of your comments on your Tuesday May 4th email. You say that there are many reports of people feeling on top of the world after taking MMS for a few days. They have renewed energy, . ...

You then say it would be a good time to stop and "give the body a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens" I love your analogy about riding the waves but can you explain what you mean by the immune system kicking in and taking care of the pathogens?

Also after stopping the MMS I assume it is a good time to take more antioxidents?

Also if or when this good feeling subsides should one take more of the sodium chlorite?

In your email of Sunday, May 9th, you give a formula for preparing a nasal solution for colds or flus Then you say it may be necessary after taking the nasal solution to put some probiotics in the nose. Could you explain what are the symptoms for the need for probiotics and how one puts probiotics in the nose?

Thanks again for your help.

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 8:09:11 PMSubject: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Agnes,Chlorine dioxide quickly (within seconds to minutes) breaks down to chlorite. I believe the same happens with chlorous acid.Chlorite, in animals, initially results in a quick reduction in blood cell volume, followed by an increase in blood cell volume. However, if chlorite exposure is continued over a longer period of time, there is a general reduction in blood cell volume, and the blood cells become more fragile.Blood tests can determine blood cell volume changes. Beyond that we simply have to look at how your body functions when there are less red and white blood cells. With less blood cells, there should be less oxygen in the blood. Less oxygen should result in a loss of energy and possibly a loss of mental clarity and function. In addition the pulse rate may increase to make up for the loss of oxygen.This is how this was explained to me by several medical professionals. I am not a medical

professional, so I can not evaluate how accurate it is, but it sounds reasonable.Moving over to ingesting high concentrations of chlorous acid, there is the possibility of removing parts of the stomach and intestinal lining, but I don't think there have been any studies that look at this. Chlorine dioxide is very effective at removing biofilm, and chlorous acid may be more effective than chlorine dioxide. Since the mucous lining of the GI tract is basically a biofilm, it is reasonable to be cautious with a chlorous acid solution.If the mucous of the GI tract was reduced or eliminated, I would think that there would be a general nausea followed by diarrhea. With the diarrhea would come the inability to absorb vitamins and minerals from food or supplements and that would lead to a further feeling of being run down.If you read the experiences of people following the MMS protocol, you will find that a few days into the protocol,

there are many reports of people feeling on top of the world. They have renewed energy and are very optimistic toward their condition and with life in general.I believe that this is the point where they have achieved higher blood cell volume. I think that at this point they should stop taking the chlorous acid and give their bodies a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens. When surfing, you paddle hard as the wave forms below you, but once you catch the wave you simple ride it to the beach. No more paddling is needed.Anecdotally, we have used this approach with animals with great success. However, we have very limited data with people. While the theory is sound, I don't have the biomedical background to know if the same results can be expected in people.I have done some preliminary testing on this and there does seem to be some measurable changes that can be observed. My resting pulse

is in the 45 - 50 beats per minute range. I picked up a pulseoximeter and determined that my oxygen saturation at rest is 95 - 96%. After I ingest a chlorous acid solution, the oxygen saturation increases to 97 - 98% at the same pulse rate. Under normal conditions, such as when walking, my pulse rate increases to the 55 - 60 beats per minute range and my oxygen saturation is in the 98 - 99% range. If this testing is valid, it would indicate that there could be a relationship between chlorous acid and blood oxygen levels. While the best idea of how this works involves an increase in blood cell volume, it may be argued that this is what is going on. Once we dial this in and observe repeatable results with several people, I will run it by a medical professional to see what holes can be blown in the theory. For now, it is simply an interesting observation.This is my take on oxidative stress, but I tend to focus on short term (seconds,

minutes and hours). I am sure that there is a lot more to this, and long term effects need to be considered too. The best way to learn about this is to spend some time discussing it with a medical professional. Tom> > >> > > SAFETY ISSUES> > > http://www.malariai nitiative. com/286/malaria- treatment- science/safety- issues/> > > SAFETY ISSUES> > > A remaining

concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure> and

refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate -dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses.>

[Guest guest]

Hey Tom. I think your idea of pulsing the MMS is a good idea. Most herbalists say it's a good idea to pulse herbs. It allows the body a chance to 'remember' its job. If you continue giving herbs, or certain supplements, or MMS that does the job the body starts going--oh, I'll do these other things. Kind of like when a person takes laxatives for a long time. If they stop, the body doesn't remember for a while that it's job is to do the elimination--it's waiting for the laxative.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy.

[Guest guest]

I'm not a doctor either (I'm a naturopath) but I tend to agree with you Tom.

Our bodies have an amazing ability to heal themselves if we give them what

they need. Using MMS (or whatever) to reduce the overload and then allowing

the body to take over the healing process makes sense to me.

" More " (higher dose or prolonged dose of a remedy) isn't necessarily

better - sometimes " less is more " .

Carole in Oz

Eideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)

carole@...

www.berigorafarm.com.au

Tom wrote in part:

I am not a medical professional, but I am trying to understand how oxidizers

work inside the body.

I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is

overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the

immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be

better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than

continuing with the oxidation therapy.

I don't know if this is a medically valid approach, but it sounds good...

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4580 (20091106) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

Humm, this is my third time of taking MMS-1 and I took it for 10 days.

The first time I took it for about 6 weeks doing the old protocol. Going up and down on the number of drops. On week 4 I started having stomach problems and progressively reduced the dosage untill at the end of week 5, even when taking 3 drops I had to stop.

Then I had an inerval of three months.

The second time I took it for about 5 weeks doing the new protocol about 5 times daily up to 5-6-7 drops. Like the first time after 4 weeks I had to stop.

Agan an interval of 3 months.

Now I started having stomach pains after 7 days and had to stop on day 10. I was taking it 4 to 5 times daily with 3 to 4 drops. Before and during this treatment I was taking an herb extract formula for helicobacter. Now when taking MMS the symptoms of my bladder/prostate diminished. But I felt there was still something disturbing my system. Then I stopped the herbal formula and my urinary symptoms almost disappeared.

The Helicobacter formula was very efficient treating my stomach problems but unfortunately caused urinary tract problems which are ralated to chronic prostatitis. Every now and then I have to take a digital prostate drainage procedure which gives me a relief for some time.

Hoping to find a way to treat both issues at the same time with harmony.

I'm finding these discussions here very fruitful and if we share our experiences we can find better solutions.

Arie

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 6:57:33 PMSubject: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hello Agnes,I am not a medical professional, but I am trying to understand how oxidizers work inside the body.I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy.I don't know if this is a medically valid approach, but it sounds good...The analogy of riding the wave comes from surfing. When surfing, you paddle hard to catch the wave, but then you stop paddling and simply ride the wave. In this analogy, the paddling is like using an oxidizer, and catching the wave is when the immune system kicks in and takes over.To me, pulsing an oxidation therapy makes sense. I have read thousands of reports of people following the MMS protocol. Almost

all of them initially report a relief of symptoms and a general feeling of well being. However, as they continue to work up to larger and larger doses, they end up loosing that feeling of well being and having it replaced with stomach upset, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. I have often wondered why they simply don't stop and "ride the wave," and what they expect to accomplish by continued paddling.It just makes more sense to me to accept that there may be some limitations to oxidation therapy and when you experience an improvement, you should ride it to the shore. The way that chlorine dioxide works, pathogens can not build up an immunity to it. This means that there is no down side to pausing and enjoying the improved health you have achieved.If you are alive, your immune system is functioning at some level. If you are ill, something has gone wrong, but as long as you are still breathing, the immune system is still working. It just can't

keep up. Adding an oxidizer has the potential of relieving some of the load on the immune system.Granted this is a rather simple approach and there are probably lots of exceptions to this line of reasoning. However, in a lot of cases, I think it has merit. I think people need to listen to their bodies more. I always advise people to keep a journal on their path to health. This way they can review their feelings and progress, and the very act of keeping a journal focuses everything on the target of good health. I believe that focused energy has the capability of doing great things.The nasal and sinus area has a flora, similar to the flora that is in the GI tract. Many sinus infections result from a disruption of the flora in this area. Using an oxidizer in the nasal and sinus area can kill off the infection, but it will also oxidize the flora. The idea of adding a probiotic is the same idea of taking a probiotic after taking an

antibiotic. You are trying to rebuild the flora."Snorting" yogurt is not the best way to do this. You want to get some acidophiles powder and make a solution from that. A thick solution can be placed in your nostrils, or you can simply add some of the powder to a neti pot solution. This is not for everyday use. Only use it after oxidizing the nasal area. Once or twice a day for about a week should rebuild the flora. Tom>> Tom,> I would like to receive if possible some further clarification on some of your comments on your Tuesday May 4th email. You say that there are  many reports of people feeling on top of the world after taking MMS for a few days.

They have renewed energy, . ...> You then say it would be a good time to stop and "give the body a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens" I love your analogy about riding the waves but can you explain what you mean by the immune system kicking in and taking care of the pathogens?> Also after stopping the MMS I assume it is a good time to take more antioxidents?> Also if or when this good feeling subsides should  one take more of the sodium chlorite?> > In your email of Sunday, May 9th, you give a formula for preparing  a nasal solution for colds or flus Then you say it may be necessary after taking the nasal solution to put some probiotics in the nose. Could you explain what are the symptoms  for the need for probiotics and how one puts probiotics in the nose?> Thanks again for your

help.> Agnes

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The difficulty is in finding the breakeven point.

I have had experiences with bioresonance medical devices, that in the hands of experienced persons who are MD and have a knowledge in Chinese medicine can detect with these instruments, through acupuncture points, whether a certain herb or medicine is still doing the job. These sessions must be done weekly.

You can google "bioresonance" and find out more. Known instruments are manufactured in Germany and in Austria. For example "Mora" and "Bicom". Russia is also very advanced in this field.

Arie

From: <gaiacita@...> Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 1:54:41 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

Hey Tom. I think your idea of pulsing the MMS is a good idea. Most herbalists say it's a good idea to pulse herbs. It allows the body a chance to 'remember' its job. If you continue giving herbs, or certain supplements, or MMS that does the job the body starts going--oh, I'll do these other things. Kind of like when a person takes laxatives for a long time. If they stop, the body doesn't remember for a while that it's job is to do the elimination- -it's waiting for the laxative.

Samala,

-------Original Message----- --

I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole,

How would you treat Helicobacter (biopsy confirmed) and Chronic prostatitis (no pathogen was ever found) at the same time?

Thanks?

Arie

From: Carole <carole@...> Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 2:13:43 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

I'm not a doctor either (I'm a naturopath) but I tend to agree with you Tom. Our bodies have an amazing ability to heal themselves if we give them what they need. Using MMS (or whatever) to reduce the overload and then allowing the body to take over the healing process makes sense to me."More" (higher dose or prolonged dose of a remedy) isn't necessarily better - sometimes "less is more".Carole in OzEideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)carole@...www.berigorafarm.com.auTom wrote in part:I am not a medical professional, but I am trying to understand how oxidizers work inside the body.I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an

oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy.I don't know if this is a medically valid approach, but it sounds good...__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4580 (20091106) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Interesting that there are machines to do this. Traditionally there is a choice a person can make depending on their schedule or what their body needs.

A week on, a week off.

A month on, a month off.

Or, the one I prefer--5 days on, 2 days off. Gives me Saturday and Sunday without having to take 'stuff'.

I think it's important that we learn to listen to our own bodies.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

The difficulty is in finding the breakeven point.

[Guest guest]



Hi Arie,

Given that I don't know anything about your medical history or other health problems, here are a couple of thoughts:

The prostrate gland uses large amounts of iodine (thyroid gland uses the most; breast tissue the next and the ovaries & prostate gland are the 3rd highest users of iodine). So taking colloidal iodine or nascent iodine (I think nascent iodine is the form available in USA) could be helpful. Herbs such as Willow Herb (can't remember the botanical name), Saw Palmetto, Hydrangea all have a beneficial effect on the prostate gland.

Re helicobacter (the cause of stomach ulcers), the herbs Licorice and Turmeric are beneficial. There are cautions with using licorice - high doses taken over a long period can raise blood pressure and increase sodium retention. Another good "home" remedy for stomach ulcers is cabbage juice. Not pleasant tasting but effective.

Turmeric is a powerful anti-inflammatory, so as well as helping the stomach problem, it may also be indirectly beneficial for the prostatitis.

However, if you are taking MMS, these remedies (both for the prostate and the stomach problem) are contra-indicated. Maybe Tom's suggested method of pulsing the MMS would mean you could take some MMS and take herbs in between times?

Hope this is helpful.

Carole in OzEideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)carole@...www.berigorafarm.com.au

Hi Carole,

How would you treat Helicobacter (biopsy confirmed) and Chronic prostatitis (no pathogen was ever found) at the same time?

Thanks?

Arie

From: Carole <carole@...> Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 2:13:43 AMSubject: Re: [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma

I'm not a doctor either (I'm a naturopath) but I tend to agree with you Tom. Our bodies have an amazing ability to heal themselves if we give them what they need. Using MMS (or whatever) to reduce the overload and then allowing the body to take over the healing process makes sense to me."More" (higher dose or prolonged dose of a remedy) isn't necessarily better - sometimes "less is more".Carole in OzEideann & Fionn (Tristania GSDs)carole@...www.berigorafarm.com.auTom wrote in part:I am not a medical professional, but I am trying to understand how oxidizers work inside the body.I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy.I don't know if this is a medically valid approach, but it sounds good...__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4580 (20091106) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4580 (20091106) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com