Guest guest Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 For Cancer of all kinds: I had some very good luck with Zeolite Powder on my 14 yr Golden Retriever in what was apparently a growing cancer. I never had it diagnosed before it disappeared. Zeolites were studied at the the U. of Michigan (?) about five years ago and their results showed real promise. The zeolites recently got rid of a second tumor, but it reoccurred. This one is most likely benign. You can but the Zeolites in Ebay in bulk. Buy the finer granules. It has no taste, but it is like eating sand. My dog never cared, but the grit stays around. I have taken as much as a heaping tablespoonful at a time. yiyama2003 wrote: Hi, My husband was recently diagnosed with stage 4 melanoma. It has gone to his lymph nodes but so far, he does not have compromise of his liver or his bones. At this point, he is willing to try anything that could help. He just bought the MMS 1 and found out about MMS 2. He has started with one drop twice a day and he has not have any nausea so far. Do you know about a cancer protocol and how to combine MMS 1 and MMS 2? I am sooo grateful I have found this group, it is a relief to see some light at the end of the tunnel, you know? because with chemotherapy the chances are not very optimistic... Thanks so much, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Thanks so much for all your answers. I would like to ask Tom, what protocol you recommend for cancer when you use MMS1 and MMS2? and what are the max doses? My husband is taking 5 drops of MMS 1 approximately five times per day and according to Jim's protocol, you should take it every hour? I saw that it should be up to 15 drops too but that is mentioned in the protocol for 3 times per day. For the MMS2, should it be taken immediately after the MMS1? He bought the capsules, and has not started it yet. Should he start with 1/4? Thank you for sharing your experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Hello Yiyama2003, I am not a medical professional, so I don't know what would have the best possibility of working for cancer. The medical professionals I discuss sodium chlorite solutions with always raise a concern about subjecting the body to oxidative stress. Unfortunately, there are no studies looking at ingesting these chemicals, so from a science standpoint, you are basically on your own. The same goes for establishing maximum doses. I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. The best I can suggest is that you may be able to find someone that has documented proof that MMS has helped them with cancer and correspond with them to find out what they did. If I run across anyone like that, I will pass the information on to you, but so far my research in this area has been unfruitful. I have run across several success stories on the oleander soup list, so that might also be a good place to check out. Tom --- In , " yiyama2003 " <yiyama2003@...> wrote: > > > Thanks so much for all your answers. > > I would like to ask Tom, what protocol you recommend for cancer when you use MMS1 and MMS2? and what are the max doses? > > My husband is taking 5 drops of MMS 1 approximately five times per day and according to Jim's protocol, you should take it every hour? I saw that it should be up to 15 drops too but that is mentioned in the protocol for 3 times per day. > > For the MMS2, should it be taken immediately after the MMS1? He bought the capsules, and has not started it yet. Should he start with 1/4? > > Thank you for sharing your experience! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Hi Tom, Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things? thanks again, Anne I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Hi Tom, Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things? thanks again, Anne I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Hello Anne, Oxidative stress from chlorine dioxide, chlorite, and chlorate results in reduced red blood cells, reduced total volume of blood cells, and reduced hemoglobin. In addition, the red blood cells become more fragile and prone to break down. This is based upon long term studies (2 - 24 months) done on animals. No human studies have been done on this. In addition, no studies were done on chlorous acid (which is what MMS forms). These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials used to make these determinations are published and open for review, whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his claims from are not. Tom --- In , " surveydog04 " <awhite9@...> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things? > > thanks again, > Anne > > > > I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Keycross ~ if Toms comments don't ring true to you then why don't you just ignore them rather than get keyed up wanting evidence, reports, studies etc. He is just sharing with the group what he has found out about MMS and we all choose whether or not we want to take these findings into consideration or not. Its just another persons perspective that is all. > > Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc. > Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Hello Keycross, I asked several Industrial Hygienists working in plants that use these chemicals, and confirmed their statements with the poison control center. In addition I ran this by several emergency room nurses and doctors, and they said pretty much the same thing. People don't normally drink chlorine dioxide products. The most often accidental exposure is through inhalation. The medical professionals that I talked with could easily discuss inhalation effects, but they had to do some searching to find the effects of ingestion. This is also taught in our classes on what to do in the event of a chemical spill. The class is taught in part by an Industrial Hygienist that has ties to the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH). You may want to check with them to see if they offer classes in your area. Tom > > Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are two different things. Show me the evidence that chlorine dioxide poisoning causes what you say, reports, clinical evidence, studies, etc > [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma > > > > Hi Tom, > Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things? > > thanks again, > Anne > > I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Hello Keycross, This should help you in your research on this. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/chlorite-chlorate/invitro-eng.php Tom > > Show the group the long term studies you claim exist on chlorine dioxide, etc. > [ ] Re: MMS for Melanoma > > > > Hello Anne, > > Oxidative stress from chlorine dioxide, chlorite, and chlorate results in reduced red blood cells, reduced total volume of blood cells, and reduced hemoglobin. In addition, the red blood cells become more fragile and prone to break down. This is based upon long term studies (2 - 24 months) done on animals. No human studies have been done on this. > > In addition, no studies were done on chlorous acid (which is what MMS forms). > > These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials used to make these determinations are published and open for review, whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his claims from are not. > > Tom > > --- In , " surveydog04 " <awhite9@> wrote: > > > > Hi Tom, > > Below you mention the signs of chloring dioxide poisioning but when you talk about oxidative stress what are some of the signs/symptoms of this? Basically the same things? > > > > thanks again, > > Anne > > > > > > > > I can tell you that the signs of chlorine and chlorine dioxide poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Both chlorine dioxide and chlorine are respiratory irritants, so the side effects of exposure are asthma, bronchitis and pneumonia like symptoms. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Hello , The studies show concentrations in PPM or mg/kg or mg/kg of body weight. MMS uses drops in half a glass of water. Do you know how to convert between the two? 4 drops sounds like not much at all, but it actually is a solution with about 253 PPM available chlorine dioxide. 15 drops produces a solution with about 949 PPM available chlorine dioxide. To gain a little perspective on this, water purification uses 2 - 4 PPM. This means that the 4 drop dose is over 63 times stronger than what is used in water purification, and the 15 drop dose is over 237 times stronger. In addition, water purification does not use chlorous acid, but they use chlorine dioxide dissolved in water. The chlorous acid has too many impurities in it to be used for water purification. Tom > > These test results are contrary to Jim Humbles claim that MMS does > > not damage to healthy cells, however the test methods and materials > > used to make these determinations are published and open for review, > > whereas Jim Humbles test results and methods that he formed his > > claims from are not. > > Saul Pressman on the oxyplus list once made this same claim - ie, that > these studies showed that MMS was dangerous and caused 'crimping' in red > blood cells. He also included links to the studies, which I actually > went and read the summaries. > > They used concentrations that were literally *thousands* of times the > levels achieved when using MMS, so unless you are talking about other > studies, those don't mean much... > > I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the only studies that I ever saw > claiming damage to red blood cells used concentrations that were orders > of magnitude higher than what MMS users use... > > -- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Agree but it seems to me that the negative is the focus not the positive effect this has had on so many and their lives. I have been on MMS since Nov of 2008, now just maintenance because I am better. I have many people not beleive my age thinking I am younger, which has always been true, its my baby face:) Wishing more was shared about the positive and not just the negative, and doubt. Perhaps we should also warn others for the safety aspect of many things, aspartame, cleaning agents,for that matter hundreds of prescription drugs. For many just joining or not informed this is just nothing more than a deterrent in my opinion to something that may save their life or a loved one. The new protocol makes the addition of supplements to the daily routine very simple. We should stress the need of continuing a good diet and supplements and antioxidants even sole for electrolytes and black strap molasses for iron. To me these are important things that need shared. Also these things should be part of our daily life regardless of the MMS treatment. > > As always and with everything--some people are much more sensitive to, well, > anything, than others are. > > I remember 2 people--ladies--on the other MMS list when it was active. They > both were taking Jim's original protocol for health issues. And they were > seeing very positive results. > > They ALSO saw much oxidative stress in the form of sagging face skin, > wrinkles, tiredness, sallowness. Both were aware of how their looks changed > And both somehow knew it was oxidative stress, though that was seldom > talked about 'back then', as Jim said it was impossible. > > But both said they stopped the MMS, started on massive doses of antioxidants > (mostly C, but also others, if memory serves) and totally, quickly, reversed > the visual effects. After which they went back to the MMS, only pulsing it > with antioxidants. > > Considering that Jim use to stress (though I don't know if he does now) that > it was vital to take large amounts of C BEFORE starting his AMMS protocol, > due to the reason that 'perhaps' MMS would strip C from the body, and the > heart needed C to function (which also was felt in heart palpitations by a > few people on Jim's protocol back then), I started recommending to anyone > that bought MMS from me to 1) be sure to take extra C, that it wouldn't hurt > to do a 'round' of C before starting Jim's protocol, and--for my money--C > every day, simply spacing the C and MMS far enough apart to allow both to > work and 2) I also started recommending people take a good probiotic while > on MMS because there were a few people who had physical manifestations of > good bacteria die-off while on Jim's protocol--proving (to them, though not > to Jim) that MMS killed both good and bad bacteria indiscriminantly. > > I would much rather 'be safe than sorry' and would have felt myself remiss > if I had not informed people of these possibilities whether they bought the > MMS from me or not. Many people did--and do--write me privately for answers > to their MMS questions and I always tell them about these issues. When you > go down to the lowest common denominator, for safety purposes, then people > get to choose for themselves whether they want to follow that advice or not. > But at least they can never come back and say " you didn't tell me this > could happen " > > samala, > > www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt > Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps > you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here > > -------Original Message------- > Tom Perhaps you should respond and contact the Lutherans with concerns of > their mission in Africa and abroad. Perhaps even join the team and express > your concerns and issues. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Perhaps this article should be read. Well, forget " what if. " The tragedy is happening right now. Over 750,000 people actually do die in the United States every year, although not from plane crashes. They die from something far more common and rarely perceived by the public as dangerous: modern medicine. http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 > > > > As always and with everything--some people are much more sensitive to, well, > > anything, than others are. > > > > I remember 2 people--ladies--on the other MMS list when it was active. They > > both were taking Jim's original protocol for health issues. And they were > > seeing very positive results. > > > > They ALSO saw much oxidative stress in the form of sagging face skin, > > wrinkles, tiredness, sallowness. Both were aware of how their looks changed > > And both somehow knew it was oxidative stress, though that was seldom > > talked about 'back then', as Jim said it was impossible. > > > > But both said they stopped the MMS, started on massive doses of antioxidants > > (mostly C, but also others, if memory serves) and totally, quickly, reversed > > the visual effects. After which they went back to the MMS, only pulsing it > > with antioxidants. > > > > Considering that Jim use to stress (though I don't know if he does now) that > > it was vital to take large amounts of C BEFORE starting his AMMS protocol, > > due to the reason that 'perhaps' MMS would strip C from the body, and the > > heart needed C to function (which also was felt in heart palpitations by a > > few people on Jim's protocol back then), I started recommending to anyone > > that bought MMS from me to 1) be sure to take extra C, that it wouldn't hurt > > to do a 'round' of C before starting Jim's protocol, and--for my money--C > > every day, simply spacing the C and MMS far enough apart to allow both to > > work and 2) I also started recommending people take a good probiotic while > > on MMS because there were a few people who had physical manifestations of > > good bacteria die-off while on Jim's protocol--proving (to them, though not > > to Jim) that MMS killed both good and bad bacteria indiscriminantly. > > > > I would much rather 'be safe than sorry' and would have felt myself remiss > > if I had not informed people of these possibilities whether they bought the > > MMS from me or not. Many people did--and do--write me privately for answers > > to their MMS questions and I always tell them about these issues. When you > > go down to the lowest common denominator, for safety purposes, then people > > get to choose for themselves whether they want to follow that advice or not. > > But at least they can never come back and say " you didn't tell me this > > could happen " > > > > samala, > > > > www.eamega.com/RPainManageEnt > > Chronic pain does NOT belong in your body. The Am Wand helps > > you get rid of it quickly and easily. Get the wand here > > > > -------Original Message------- > > Tom Perhaps you should respond and contact the Lutherans with concerns of > > their mission in Africa and abroad. Perhaps even join the team and express > > your concerns and issues. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Hello Healinghope, Did you read what Dr. Hesselink wrote? He has safety concerns. It looks good for people taking these solutions when they take them 1 - 3 times a week. Frequent blood tests should be done to monitor for oxidative stress. More study is needed to determine the safety of more frequent and long term use. Contrast this with Jim Humbles instructions to take a dose every hour and it is perfectly safe to ingest high concentrations of chlorous acid because low concentrations of chlorine dioxide are approved for use in water purification. , Dr. Hesselink, and I have had discussed this and I am waiting to see if they will share the results of their 1 - 3 times a week efforts. I have been told that their early efforts " look promising " but have no further details. Tom --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...> wrote: > > Tom Perhaps you should respond and contact the Lutherans with concerns of their mission in Africa and abroad. Perhaps even join the team and express your concerns and issues. > > --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@> wrote: > > > > SAFETY ISSUES > > http://www.malariainitiative.com/286/malaria-treatment-science/safety-issues/ > > SAFETY ISSUES > > A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure and refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate-dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Hello Healinghope, The problem is that while it is an excellent idea it wasn't effective. It wasn't approved because Alcide could not provide test results indicating that it was effective. When they increased the concentrations to an effective level, there was damage to the blood cells. Tom --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...> wrote: > > The fact remains this make body parts and blood safe to use from many viruses and disease, one listed Aids. > > It is well known that the transfusion of human blood and blood constituents, or the transplantation of corneas and sclerae, carries a substantial risk of transmission of AIDS and many other diseases. This disclosure describes a method of disinfecting certain blood constituents--particularly the red cells, platelets and proteins--or disinfecting corneal and scleral tissues, to make them safer for human transfusion or transplantation, while respectively maintaining their biologic or optical function. > The blood constitutents or eye parts are then safe for human transfusion or transplantation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Perhaps my perception is " incorrect " . This last writing from you for newcomers is good stuff, thanks. I have to express my opinion on Vit C being stripped from the heart with MMS. From my readings and study I found the Vit C will strengthen artery walls, still arguable by some. I also have read that MMS will strip the plaque from the walls and that is the reason Vit C is so important before extensive oxidation with MMS. More from Walter Last http://www.health-science-spirit.com/miracle.htm In the case of cardiovascular diseases and arteriosclerosis it has been suggested that with MMS therapy cholesterol deposits may be removed too fast and lead to a weakening of the affected blood vessels. To avoid or minimize problems it has been recommended to take high amounts of vitamin C, up to 10 g daily in divided doses, for several weeks before starting MMS therapy. This is to strengthen the blood vessels and make them more elastic. Some other nutrients to improve elasticity are lemon juice, green juices, copper salicylate, magnesium chloride, MSM, and N-Acetylglucosamine. > > Hope, I think you look at this incorrectly. You see what I, or anyone else > says about precaution, as something negative about MMS. That's wrong. It's > not negative at all--it's merely precautions that everyone should be aware > of. > > I've never said MMS doesn't work, or is too dangerous, or whatever. I > simply talk about precautions. It's the same as saying " if you take too > much C you will get diarrhea, so be careful and start slow " . > > You seem to view anything outside of high praise as knocking MMS. I don't > know why you feel that way. There are just too many people that dive into > things without doing the research you and I others do--they just hear " this > worked for me " and so immediately want 'that miracle thing' and have zero > idea of the side effects, consequences or what could happen if taken too > much or too often. > > This is not just with MMS, it's with everything. How many times do people > take too much of something and feel sick from a too fast detox, and then > they go telling everything " that doesn't work, it made me sick " . THAT is > disinformation. It does no one any good, because if they had used the > product correctly their 'sickness' would probably not have happened. > > You are exactly right in that we should stress good diet, good water, air, > sunshine, exercise. But people don't want to hear that. They want to hear > how the 'miracle product is going to cure me TONIGHT'. So--I give the > warnings. > > Would I feel horrible if I didn't tell someone about the need for C, and > then they took a heart attack simply because they were lacking enough C to > begin with and MMS stripped the rest from their heart? You betcha. Because > I KNOW a guy that started the MMS protocol and immediately felt it in his > heart. At first he wasn't sure what it was--until he started tracking when > it was happening. I am NOT going to take responsibility for hurting someone > by withholding information that you deem focuses on the negative. > > By giving precautions, we are not scaring people into not taking MMS, but > hopefully 'scaring' them into taking more responsibility for their health > and 'scaring' them into being aware when they DO take MMS. I have yet for > anyone I've to tell me " I'm not going to take this MMS " after I've told them > of the precautions. > > You make it sound like we are scaring people away. I simply don't see it > that way. As I've said I have yet to have anyone cancel their order, or > stop using MMS. > > I always tell people about my success with MMS. How it took tumors from 2 > of my cats, how it gave my old dog much more energy, how it cured my tooth > infection. So why do you focus on the 'negativity' of my precautions? > > I simply will not be responsible for selling something to someone without > giving them the REAL, POSSIBLE side effects. As I said--I wouldn't be able > to live with myself if I neglected to tell someone about the heart/C problem > even if it is just a slight possibility, just because I wanted to make MMS > sound like THE miracle product of the century and make a lousy ten bucks. > Sorry, I won't do that for you or anyone. > > Yes, you've gotten great benefit from MMS. That's wonderful. So have I and > so have hundreds if not thousands of others--but not everyone has had only > positive effects, and not everyone has been cured of all their troubles by > MMS. It always sounds like you have cured all your health issues with MMS. > That's wonderful, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone is so lucky. There > have been people quit taking AMMS because they just couldn't tolerate the > taste/smell/nausea/diarrhea any longer and they gave it a REAL try--always > hoping for the cure you got, but they didn't. > > Even at Jim's new protocol--which he changed DUE to more and better > information from those getting so sick on the old protocol--still bothers > SOME people. Not everyone, but some. There is no miracle cure. There is > common sense. And when I start some new protocol or product or whatever--I > want to know all the possibilities of what can go wrong along with what can > go right. Only then can I choose what is best for me--when I have ALL the > information. Not just the glossy parts, but the dark parts too. It's ALL a > balancing act. No two human body systems are the same, no two will have the > same reaction/response. That is why it is important to know both sides to > an issue. No one outside of you, afaik or have been told by the numerous > people that write me, sees these posts as focusing on the negative aspect of > MMS. > > The picture has to be balanced. If you are going to continue to claim that > MMS is the answer to everything, without giving due precautions, then I > suppose you will continue to see my precautions as negative information > about MMS. I see it as being balanced and truthful. You've been on it > since the end of 08. I've been involved with it since August of 07, have > watched hundreds of people on the MDI list, and then this list, go through > every imaginable aspect of MMS, many with results such as yours and just as > many without such results, and many with in between results. It's a full > spectrum. > > I would never be without MMS. I tell people that. I think every household > should have at least one bottle of MMS. I tell them that. I now really > appreciate the information Tom has given us about a safer, easier way to use > MMS. I tell them that. I STILL add the precautions about antioxidants and > probiotics. I will always do that. I'm sorry that you feel I am knocking > MMS, or scaring people away. > > Samala, > > > -------Original Message------- > > Agree but it seems to me that the negative is the focus not the positive effect this has had on so many and their lives. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Tom Yes I read this, that is why I thought you may be interested in joining the study and or reading this. > > Hello Healinghope, > > Did you read what Dr. Hesselink wrote? > > He has safety concerns. > > It looks good for people taking these solutions when they take them 1 - 3 times a week. > > Frequent blood tests should be done to monitor for oxidative stress. > > More study is needed to determine the safety of more frequent and long term use. > > Contrast this with Jim Humbles instructions to take a dose every hour and it is perfectly safe to ingest high concentrations of chlorous acid because low concentrations of chlorine dioxide are approved for use in water purification. > > , Dr. Hesselink, and I have had discussed this and I am waiting to see if they will share the results of their 1 - 3 times a week efforts. I have been told that their early efforts " look promising " but have no further details. > > Tom > > > > --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@> wrote: > > > > Tom Perhaps you should respond and contact the Lutherans with concerns of their mission in Africa and abroad. Perhaps even join the team and express your concerns and issues. > > > > --- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@> wrote: > > > > > > SAFETY ISSUES > > > http://www.malariainitiative.com/286/malaria-treatment-science/safety-issues/ > > > SAFETY ISSUES > > > A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure and refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate-dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Hi Healinghope, Just an observation on how everyones minds interpret things differently as I read this post. I am new to the list, new to MMS, want to use it but also want to understand better what I am actually using (or rather having my dog use). From reading the archives Ive come away with the feeling that MMS has helped a lot of people with a lot of issues. I also get the feeling that there are many different ways people are choosing to use it. Jim's protocol is there in print if people choose to go that route, but no one has yet put in print other methodologies that have also been shown to be successful. And that is not to say that just because something is in print means that it is the truth, or the end all be all!!! The list has been a nice place to read about everyones different experiences with MMS, and then being able to make a more educated decision on how to proceed. Some people want to stick with their tested, tried and true method, while others feel that different ways and newer approches make more sense to them. I totally don't feel deterred from using MMS, I am actually grateful for having a more gentler approach to use it that still has a chance to make some positive results. Otherwise I may never have felt comfortable to try it. After listening to CD's interviewing Jim, I was hesitant to use MMS on my dogs because of the potential of making them sick. Now because I know a bit more, I am able to formulate how I want to proceed. Everyone is different. Some want the slow steady pace, others the wham bam get this thing overwith. Not to worry people will find their way if it is meant to be. just my .2 cents for what its worth (and thats not much these days) Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Anne Appreciate your " 2 cents " worth, yours or anyone's opinion is always worth that and more. All opinions and sharing is what makes a group. I was very hesitant to use MMS when first reading the information, " cure all " is a red flag for anyone. Reading Humbles writings was the guidance I had and used, and it worked for me. The guidance written was tested on many and was the only human study I knew of. I am glad you have found a gentler way to deal with disease and illness, and not a wham bam approach. although even with the old protocol of 15 drops 3 times daily, which is the one I used was far from wham bam, took me over a year to reach. Since then the protocol used in the field has changed, less drops more frequencies. And unlike any discovery it will take time and research any many varied opinions. And firmly agree much more study is required. --- In , " surveydog04 " <awhite9@...> wrote: > > Hi Healinghope, > > Just an observation on how everyones minds interpret things differently as I read this post. I am new to the list, new to MMS, want to use it but also want to understand better what I am actually using (or rather having my dog use). From reading the archives Ive come away with the feeling that MMS has helped a lot of people with a lot of issues. I also get the feeling that there are many different ways people are choosing to use it. Jim's protocol is there in print if people choose to go that route, but no one has yet put in print other methodologies that have also been shown to be successful. And that is not to say that just because something is in print means that it is the truth, or the end all be all!!! > > The list has been a nice place to read about everyones different experiences with MMS, and then being able to make a more educated decision on how to proceed. Some people want to stick with their tested, tried and true method, while others feel that different ways and newer approches make more sense to them. > > I totally don't feel deterred from using MMS, I am actually grateful for having a more gentler approach to use it that still has a chance to make some positive results. Otherwise I may never have felt comfortable to try it. After listening to CD's interviewing Jim, I was hesitant to use MMS on my dogs because of the potential of making them sick. Now because I know a bit more, I am able to formulate how I want to proceed. Everyone is different. Some want the slow steady pace, others the wham bam get this thing overwith. > Not to worry people will find their way if it is meant to be. > > just my .2 cents for what its worth (and thats not much these days) > > Anne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 This is some of the best field study done yet I know of for malaria other than Humble, this should not be shrugged lightly. There are doctors and scientist writing and studying this with the Lutheran church. And for malaria this is how MMS is being used! Please read all the research under & #9654;Malaria Treatment Science http://www.malaria01.org/ > > SAFETY ISSUES > > http://www.malariainitiative.com/286/malaria-treatment-science/safety-issues/ > > SAFETY ISSUES > > A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the > > dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified > > sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some > > have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface > > seem to suffer no ill effects. > > Wow - once to 3 times WEEKLY? > > This isn't how MMS is being used, so is meaningless as a comparison... > > -- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Hello Agnes, Chlorine dioxide quickly (within seconds to minutes) breaks down to chlorite. I believe the same happens with chlorous acid. Chlorite, in animals, initially results in a quick reduction in blood cell volume, followed by an increase in blood cell volume. However, if chlorite exposure is continued over a longer period of time, there is a general reduction in blood cell volume, and the blood cells become more fragile. Blood tests can determine blood cell volume changes. Beyond that we simply have to look at how your body functions when there are less red and white blood cells. With less blood cells, there should be less oxygen in the blood. Less oxygen should result in a loss of energy and possibly a loss of mental clarity and function. In addition the pulse rate may increase to make up for the loss of oxygen. This is how this was explained to me by several medical professionals. I am not a medical professional, so I can not evaluate how accurate it is, but it sounds reasonable. Moving over to ingesting high concentrations of chlorous acid, there is the possibility of removing parts of the stomach and intestinal lining, but I don't think there have been any studies that look at this. Chlorine dioxide is very effective at removing biofilm, and chlorous acid may be more effective than chlorine dioxide. Since the mucous lining of the GI tract is basically a biofilm, it is reasonable to be cautious with a chlorous acid solution. If the mucous of the GI tract was reduced or eliminated, I would think that there would be a general nausea followed by diarrhea. With the diarrhea would come the inability to absorb vitamins and minerals from food or supplements and that would lead to a further feeling of being run down. If you read the experiences of people following the MMS protocol, you will find that a few days into the protocol, there are many reports of people feeling on top of the world. They have renewed energy and are very optimistic toward their condition and with life in general. I believe that this is the point where they have achieved higher blood cell volume. I think that at this point they should stop taking the chlorous acid and give their bodies a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens. When surfing, you paddle hard as the wave forms below you, but once you catch the wave you simple ride it to the beach. No more paddling is needed. Anecdotally, we have used this approach with animals with great success. However, we have very limited data with people. While the theory is sound, I don't have the biomedical background to know if the same results can be expected in people. I have done some preliminary testing on this and there does seem to be some measurable changes that can be observed. My resting pulse is in the 45 - 50 beats per minute range. I picked up a pulseoximeter and determined that my oxygen saturation at rest is 95 - 96%. After I ingest a chlorous acid solution, the oxygen saturation increases to 97 - 98% at the same pulse rate. Under normal conditions, such as when walking, my pulse rate increases to the 55 - 60 beats per minute range and my oxygen saturation is in the 98 - 99% range. If this testing is valid, it would indicate that there could be a relationship between chlorous acid and blood oxygen levels. While the best idea of how this works involves an increase in blood cell volume, it may be argued that this is what is going on. Once we dial this in and observe repeatable results with several people, I will run it by a medical professional to see what holes can be blown in the theory. For now, it is simply an interesting observation. This is my take on oxidative stress, but I tend to focus on short term (seconds, minutes and hours). I am sure that there is a lot more to this, and long term effects need to be considered too. The best way to learn about this is to spend some time discussing it with a medical professional. Tom > > > > > > SAFETY ISSUES > > > http://www.malariai nitiative. com/286/malaria- treatment- science/safety- issues/ > > > SAFETY ISSUES > > > A remaining concern is safety. So far, at least anecdotally, the dosages of chlorine oxides as administered orally per the acidified sodium chlorite protocol have produced no definite toxicity. Some have taken this as often as 1 to 3 times weekly and on the surface seem to suffer no ill effects. To be certain if this is safe more research is warranted for such long term or repeated use. The concern is that too much or too frequent administration of oxidants could excessively deplete the body's reductants and promote oxidative stress. One useful way to monitor this may be to periodically check methemoglobin levels in frequent users. Sodium chlorite, as found in municipal water supplies after disinfection by chorine dioxide, has been studied and proven safe. [79a-79i] Animal studies using much higher oral or topical doses have proven relatively safe. [80a-80p] In a suicide attempt 10g of sodium chlorite taken orally caused nearly fatal kidney failure > and refractory methemoglobinemia. [81a] Inhalation or aerosol exposure to chlorine dioxide gas is highly irritating and generally not recommended. [82a-82g] Special precautions must be employed in cases of glucose-6-phosphate -dehydrogenase deficiency disease, as these patients are especially sensitive to oxidants of all kinds. [83a-83g] Nevertheless, oral acidified sodium chlorite solutions might even be found safe [84a,84b] and effective in them, but probably will need to be administered at lower doses. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Hello Agnes, I am not a medical professional, but I am trying to understand how oxidizers work inside the body. I have this idea that people become sick when their immune system is overrun. Adding an oxidizer to the body may remove pathogens and allow the immune system to recover. Once your immune system has recovered, it may be better to allow the immune system to deal with the pathogens rather than continuing with the oxidation therapy. I don't know if this is a medically valid approach, but it sounds good... The analogy of riding the wave comes from surfing. When surfing, you paddle hard to catch the wave, but then you stop paddling and simply ride the wave. In this analogy, the paddling is like using an oxidizer, and catching the wave is when the immune system kicks in and takes over. To me, pulsing an oxidation therapy makes sense. I have read thousands of reports of people following the MMS protocol. Almost all of them initially report a relief of symptoms and a general feeling of well being. However, as they continue to work up to larger and larger doses, they end up loosing that feeling of well being and having it replaced with stomach upset, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. I have often wondered why they simply don't stop and " ride the wave, " and what they expect to accomplish by continued paddling. It just makes more sense to me to accept that there may be some limitations to oxidation therapy and when you experience an improvement, you should ride it to the shore. The way that chlorine dioxide works, pathogens can not build up an immunity to it. This means that there is no down side to pausing and enjoying the improved health you have achieved. If you are alive, your immune system is functioning at some level. If you are ill, something has gone wrong, but as long as you are still breathing, the immune system is still working. It just can't keep up. Adding an oxidizer has the potential of relieving some of the load on the immune system. Granted this is a rather simple approach and there are probably lots of exceptions to this line of reasoning. However, in a lot of cases, I think it has merit. I think people need to listen to their bodies more. I always advise people to keep a journal on their path to health. This way they can review their feelings and progress, and the very act of keeping a journal focuses everything on the target of good health. I believe that focused energy has the capability of doing great things. The nasal and sinus area has a flora, similar to the flora that is in the GI tract. Many sinus infections result from a disruption of the flora in this area. Using an oxidizer in the nasal and sinus area can kill off the infection, but it will also oxidize the flora. The idea of adding a probiotic is the same idea of taking a probiotic after taking an antibiotic. You are trying to rebuild the flora. " Snorting " yogurt is not the best way to do this. You want to get some acidophiles powder and make a solution from that. A thick solution can be placed in your nostrils, or you can simply add some of the powder to a neti pot solution. This is not for everyday use. Only use it after oxidizing the nasal area. Once or twice a day for about a week should rebuild the flora. Tom > > Tom, > I would like to receive if possible some further clarification on some of your comments on your Tuesday May 4th email. You say that there are  many reports of people feeling on top of the world after taking MMS for a few days. They have renewed energy, . ... > You then say it would be a good time to stop and " give the body a chance to have the immune system kick into full gear and take care of the pathogens "  I love your analogy about riding the waves but can you explain what you mean by the immune system kicking in and taking care of the pathogens? > Also after stopping the MMS I assume it is a good time to take more antioxidents? > Also if or when this good feeling subsides should  one take more of the sodium chlorite? > > In your email of Sunday, May 9th, you give a formula for preparing  a nasal solution for colds or flus Then you say it may be necessary after taking the nasal solution to put some probiotics in the nose. Could you explain what are the symptoms  for the need for probiotics and how one puts probiotics in the nose? > Thanks again for your help. > Agnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Hello Arie, Interesting pattern... If you are up to purchasing some measuring equipment, here is something to consider. If I understand you correctly, you are finding some relief from taking the sodium chlorite solution, but begin to have some other problems show up after taking it over a period of a few weeks. When you stop taking the sodium chlorite, your original issues return. There are at least two ways to work through this. The first way is to blast whatever is causing the problem out of your system. I don't like this method, but sometimes it works. This involves the method used to deal with malaria. 15 drops activated with lemon juice, followed by an additional 15 drop dose also activated with lemon juice 4 hours later. If you try this use a 1:1 activation ratio between the sodium chlorite and lemon juice. Then you can go sit on the toilet for a couple of days. Bring a good book... However, since on of the issues that eventually shows up involves stomach pain, this may not be the best choice. Let's move on to a longer term solution that is gentle, but effective. This is experimental. We have only used it a few times. We have had close to 60% success with this method. It isn't perfect, but the odds of it working are slightly better than flipping a coin and trying to call heads or tails. As with all things, your mileage may vary. You will need an accurate way to measure a PH of 6. You can get test strips, or pick up a PH meter. If you get a meter, be sure to pick up the calibration solution for PH 7. This way you can be sure your meter is reading correctly. If you get the test strips, pick the ones that read the PH range of 4.5 - 9 rather than the ones that read 1 - 14. This will allow you to dial in on PH 6 easier. You will also need to be able to make accurate ml measurements. This can be done using a syringe or a series of graduated cylinders. Drops, as a measurement, are not accurate for this. You will need some 5% sodium chlorite, and I use RealLime, but you can also use 2.5% citric acid. You will also need a 1 liter water bottle. You fill the water bottle with 1 liter of water. Next add enough RealLime (or 2.5% citric acid) to bring the PH of the water down to 6. Add a little at a time and stir, then measure. Keep adding and stirring until you get to PH 6. If you overshoot, pour some of the water out and add some more water. The amount of " activator " you have to add depends on the water you start with. I don't have a measurement for that amount. Just go slow and remember that we want to be as close to PH 6 as you can get. Into your 1 liter of water that has a PH of 6, add 5 ml of 5% sodium chlorite. Drink one of these throughout the day. This is an interesting solution. By following the mixing instructions, you do a slow activation. When you initially mix things up, there should be little to no odor, and I don't think you will see a color change. By the end of the day, there may be some odor and a slight yellow tint. This solution will have a concentration of 150 PPM available chlorine dioxide, and when fully activated it will have about 4 PPM free chlorine dioxide. By lowering the PH to 6, the chlorous acid is somewhat stabilized. This means that it will have only a minor change when it comes into contact with a strong acid, like stomach acid. Since the PH is only slightly acidic, it should have little effect on the stomach. A solution similar to this is used to make ice that is used to keep the microbial load down on fish, prawns, and crab. Studies have shown that prawns end up with less microbes after 2 weeks of fishing and storage than they had when they were initially removed from the pots when they are stored on this ice. If you are looking for the connection between reducing microbes on seafood and your issues, there are none. At least not directly... Seafood tends to be delicate. When a fully activated solution was used, there was some damage done to the tissue of the seafood. Holding back on the activation eliminated that problem. The bodies tissues can also be delicate. That's the connection. Will it work for you? Who knows. As I mentioned earlier, it is experimental. The science is sound, but who knows what goes on inside the body. Tom --- In , Arie Alon <maculeleh@...> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Humm, this is my third time of taking MMS-1 and I took it for 10 days. > The first time I took it for about 6 weeks doing the old protocol. Going up and down on the number of drops. On week 4 I started having stomach problems and progressively reduced the dosage untill at the end of week 5, even when taking 3 drops I had to stop. > Then I had an inerval of three months. > The second time I took it for about 5 weeks doing the new protocol about 5 times daily up to 5-6-7 drops. Like the first time after 4 weeks I had to stop. > Agan an interval of 3 months. > Now I started having stomach pains after 7 days and had to stop on day 10. I was taking it 4 to 5 times daily with 3 to 4 drops. Before and during this treatment I was taking an herb extract formula for helicobacter. Now when taking MMS the symptoms of my bladder/prostate diminished. But I felt there was still something disturbing my system. Then I stopped the herbal formula and my urinary symptoms almost disappeared. > The Helicobacter formula was very efficient treating my stomach problems but unfortunately caused urinary tract problems which are ralated to chronic prostatitis. Every now and then I have to take a digital prostate drainage procedure which gives me a relief for some time. > Hoping to find a way to treat both issues at the same time with harmony. > > I'm finding these discussions here very fruitful and if we share our experiences we can find better solutions. > > Arie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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