Let's make sense of this

[Guest guest]

My apologies to all for revealing this information, but I am compelled to look at all sides of this matter. I have taken this excerpt from a scientific article at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474311/?page=1

"The most surprising observation in our studies was that ClO2 is a relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing clear physiologic effects at about 9mg/kg/day dose in 11 of 13 animals studied (1). In this study we also showed that, in monkeys intubated with a gastric tube, ClO2 does not survive the organic environment of the stomach, and over 98% of the oxidizing capacity of an instilled ClO2 solution (60 ppm) disappears within a few minutes.

In addition, we showed spectroscopically that mixing monkey saliva with ClO2 solution at various reaction ratios results in the instantaneous reduction of ClO2. Thus, neither the intact molecule nor chlorite (ClO2) or chlorate (ClO3) is absorbed to any significant degree from the stomach when ClO2 is consumed."

If the above information is true, Chlorine Dioxide is in fact breaking down in the stomach's environment before it can even reach any red blood cells. We were told that Chlorine Dioxide enters the red blood cells and the only reason we so far beleive that is because it is what Jim humble tells us in his book. There is nothing else I have yet found to back up that comment. Beleive me I'm looking vigorously. If I'm over-looking anything someone please point me in the right direction.

PS- My apologies to my technical difficults I had yesterday trying to post a topic, to anyone who was affected.

[Guest guest]

On 2010-02-09 9:26 AM, vdm400 wrote:

> " The most surprising observation in our studies was that ClO2 is a

> relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing clear physiologic effects

> at about 9mg/kg/day dose in 11 of 13 animals studied (1).

Do you have any idea just how huge of a dose that is compared to the

doses that MMS1 users ingest?

You are comparing apples to planets.

> In this study we also showed that, in monkeys intubated with a

> gastric tube,_ ClO2 does not survive the organic environment of the

> stomach_, and over 98% of the oxidizing capacity of an instilled ClO2

> solution (60 ppm) disappears within a few minutes.

People who take MMS1 are not just ingesting just ClO2. You need to do a

little more research.

When MMS1 is activated the resulting mixture is primarily chlorous acid,

*not* ClO2.

The chlorous acid slowly releases ClO2 over the next couple of hours.

Now, I for one am getting extremely tired of all of your rants.

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU!!!

I was also getting very tired of his rants.

Hmmm, seems to rhyme with "plants." -As in putting someone in a place to spread dis-information or scare folks away from using MMS.

"Methinks the Lady doth protest too much."

~Rod

> > "The most surprising observation in our studies was that ClO2 is a> > relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing clear physiologic effects> > at about 9mg/kg/day dose in 11 of 13 animals studied (1).> > Do you have any idea just how huge of a dose that is compared to the> doses that MMS1 users ingest?> > You are comparing apples to planets.> > > In this study we also showed that, in monkeys intubated with a> > gastric tube,_ ClO2 does not survive the organic environment of the> > stomach_, and over 98% of the oxidizing capacity of an instilled ClO2> > solution (60 ppm) disappears within a few minutes.> > People who take MMS1 are not just ingesting just ClO2. You need to do a> little more research.> > When MMS1 is activated the resulting mixture is primarily chlorous acid,> *not* ClO2.> > The chlorous acid slowly releases ClO2 over the next couple of hours.> > Now, I for one am getting extremely tired of all of your rants.>

[Guest guest]

I DON " T KNOW!! I just don't get it. I'm ready to give up. Yea, I KNOW

it's a huge dose compared to our doses, especially for the size of a

rat! But wouldn't that just be even more of a reason for the chlorine

dioxide surviving stomach acids in that experiment??

Maybe it's still not conclusive. I mean, if it is conclusive, then why

all the nausea? That must mean it's doing something... but what? I'm

not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Just beleive in looking at things

from both angles.

Honeslty, all the scientific jargon doesnt mean too much. The proof is

in the pudding... in this case the pudding is videos of Jim treating

malaria in Africa. Can anyone tell me why I can only find just same ONE

video of Jim treating the baby in Africa, if he's cured over 75,000

people there? There must be more than just ONE documented video out of

75,000 treated cases. Just 1 video out of 75,000? MORE VIDEOS JIM,

PLEASE!! Just ten or twelve, instead of one. We're seriously waiting.

--- In , " vdm400 " <vdm400@...>

wrote:

>

>

> My apologies to all for revealing this information, but I am compelled

> to look at all sides of this matter. I have taken this excerpt from a

> scientific article at

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474311/?page=1

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474311/?page=1>

>

> " The most surprising observation in our studies was that ClO2 is a

> relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing clear physiologic effects

> at about 9mg/kg/day dose in 11 of 13 animals studied (1). In this

study

> we also showed that, in monkeys intubated with a gastric tube, ClO2

does

> not survive the organic environment of the stomach, and over 98% of

the

> oxidizing capacity of an instilled ClO2 solution (60 ppm) disappears

> within a few minutes.

>

> In addition, we showed spectroscopically that mixing monkey saliva

with

> ClO2 solution at various reaction ratios results in the instantaneous

> reduction of ClO2. Thus, neither the intact molecule nor chlorite

(ClO2)

> or chlorate (ClO3) is absorbed to any significant degree from the

> stomach when ClO2 is consumed. "

>

> If the above information is true, Chlorine Dioxide is in fact breaking

> down in the stomach's environment before it can even reach any red

blood

> cells. We were told that Chlorine Dioxide enters the red blood cells

> and the only reason we so far beleive that is because it is what Jim

> humble tells us in his book. There is nothing else I have yet found to

> back up that comment. Beleive me I'm looking vigorously. If I'm

> over-looking anything someone please point me in the right direction.

>

>

>

> PS- My apologies to my technical difficults I had yesterday trying to

> post a topic, to anyone who was affected.

>

[Guest guest]

9mg directly administered to the stomach of a rat is meant to be an

extreme for the purpose of the experiment. It it was 9mcg (micrograms)

then we'd say 'so what it wasnt enough to survive anyway', which would

kind of defeat the purpose of the experiment. So yea, of course it's

exaggerated; that's pretty obvious. I'm sure that is the purpose the

scientists administered such a large dose, to go overboard

intentionally. I'd imagine they know what they're doing.

Please tell me where in the book it mentions chlorous acid. I looked in

the index and did not see it listed. I have read many chapters in the

book but do not remember it. If it is in the book, I do apologize.

Again, anyone at all please point out what pages Chlorous acid appears

in Jims book. I can't seem to find it but it must be there. Why isn't

it in the index?

> > " The most surprising observation in our studies was that ClO2 is a

> > relatively potent thyroid inhibitor, showing clear physiologic

effects

> > at about 9mg/kg/day dose in 11 of 13 animals studied (1).

>

> Do you have any idea just how huge of a dose that is compared to the

> doses that MMS1 users ingest?

>

> You are comparing apples to planets.

>

> > In this study we also showed that, in monkeys intubated with a

> > gastric tube,_ ClO2 does not survive the organic environment of the

> > stomach_, and over 98% of the oxidizing capacity of an instilled

ClO2

> > solution (60 ppm) disappears within a few minutes.

>

> People who take MMS1 are not just ingesting just ClO2. You need to do

a

> little more research.

>

> When MMS1 is activated the resulting mixture is primarily chlorous

acid,

> *not* ClO2.

>

> The chlorous acid slowly releases ClO2 over the next couple of hours.

>

> Now, I for one am getting extremely tired of all of your rants.

>

[Guest guest]

What the researchers used was ClO2 in drinking water. It sais so right in the article that I provided.

And ClO2 is not only found in gas form. Are you saying that Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2) is only in gas form? It's what we're drinking in liquid form when mixing up MMS1. It is the liquid version. Jim sais in his book that there are several methods to make Chlorine Dioxide (also used in industry). (Chap 9, pg.106 of 'The Mirale Mineral Supplement of the 21st Century', by jim Humble 3rd edition). Yes, our method is mixing sodium chlorite with citric acid.

Quoted from the book: "When one of these items [citric acid] is added to sodium chlorite it causes the [liquid] solution to begin releasing chlorine dioxide on a continuous basis for about 12 hours. The addition of six drops of a solution that is 28% sodium chlorite (that's the Miracle Mineral Supplement) to 30 drops of... lemon will release approximatly 3mgs of chlorine dioxide in three minutes." (Chap 9, pg.110 of 'The Mirale Mineral Supplement of the 21st Century', by Jim Humble 3rd edition).

See?... liquid, mgs. We are all talking about MMS1 here right? Just to sort out any confusion I didn't mean MMS2. I don't know much about that yet. Yea, chlorine dioxide (ClO2) IS in liquid form here. I thought that was common knowlege. I'm not trying to bash anyone here. I'm just trying to gather the whole story, not just some of it. Beleive me, if you think you know the whole story, you're probably wrong. Chemistry is NOT simple and neither is the biology nor the human body and its process of absorbing chemicals. There's a lot going on that we don't know about, which is why chemists and biologists go to school for years. And if you think ALL of them are the bad guys, then I don't know what to tell you. Chlorine Dioxide is a chemical no matter what anyone says. There's a whole complex process going on, in even more detail than what Jim explains. I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying it is more complicated than the basics he gives. If we're the ones drinking this stuff, then as consumers we have the right to know the whole story if we want. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, so please do not pick one with me.

> > The researchers did not say if it was indeed activated ClO2 they> > used> > <sigh> you don't activate ClO2, you activate sodium chlorite> (preactivated MMS1 is 28% sodium chlorite).> > > and how many drops did they use. > > 9mg/kg/day is not a measurement in drops of a liquid. They used ClO2.> ClO2 is a GAS. How do you measure the *weight* of a gas?> > I have no real idea, but I suspect it is at least a few orders of> magnitude more per DAY than the amount ingested in the entire 3 week> period of normal MMS1 use.> > I could be wrong though... as I said, I have no idea how much 9mg of> ClO2 gas is.> > > This report can therefore mislead us unless they specifically say the> > methodology they followed.> > Their intention is to mislead in most cases... which is why anything> coming from these 'official sources' should always be looked at very> closely as to 'who benefits'...>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-02-10 1:45 PM, vdm400 wrote:

> And ClO2 is not only found in gas form. Are you saying that Chlorine

> Dioxide (ClO2) is _only_ in gas form?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide

Yes, it is a gas. Gases can be put into solution in liquids, but it is

still a gas in solution.

> It's what we're drinking in liquid form when mixing up MMS1.

No. most of what you drink is chlorous acid. The chlorous acid then

slowly converts to chlorine dioxide.

Oh - and I don't think Jim mentions chlorous acid in his books... but

that doesn't matter, chemistry is chemistry, and when you activate

Sodium Chlorite with an acid, it converts to chlorous acid.

Jim just simplified the explanation (or got it wrong) in his books.

> Quoted from the book:* " When one of these items [citric acid] is added

> to sodium chlorite it causes the [liquid] _solution_ to begin releasing

> _chlorine dioxide_ on a continuous basis for about 12 hours.

See... it only 'begins to release' chlorine dioxide. It doesn't

instantly convert the entire solution to chlorine dioxide.

As I said, it FIRST converts to chlorous acid when you mix the activator

with the sodium chlorite:

From: http://www.mmsonline.info/qa.html

" MMS is not chlorine dioxide; MMS is sodium chlorite (NaClO2) 28%.

Mixing with acid briefly produces chlorous acid (HClO2), which in

successive steps oxidizes ambient chlorite (ClO2-) to produce chlorine

dioxide (ClO2). Chlorine dioxide is the yellow gas produced in solution

and diluted before use. "

> The addition of_ six drops_ of a _solution_ that is 28% sodium

> chlorite (that's the Miracle Mineral Supplement) to _30 drops_ of...

> lemon will release approximatly _3mgs of chlorine dioxide_ in three

> minutes. "

Ok, good info... thanks for pointing it out.

6 drops = 3mg of ClO2

1 drop = .5mg

The *daily* dose given in the study 9mg/kg/day - was the equivalent of -

for a 100lb person - 405 mg, or 910 drops per day.

The 3 week cancer protocol calls for - at most - 10 drops, 10 times per day.

So, I was wrong. It wasn't orders of magnitude more, it was only 9 times

more, for a 100lb person. 18 times more for a 200lb person.

> if you think you know the whole story, you're probably wrong.

True enough...

> Chemistry is NOT simple and neither is the biology nor the human body

> and its process of absorbing chemicals. There's *a lot* going on that

> we don't know about, which is why chemists and biologists go to

> school for years.

For the most part, yep, I agree...

> And if you think ALL of them are the bad guys, then I don't know what

> to tell you. Chlorine Dioxide is a chemical no matter what anyone

> says.

The real chemists/scientists are not the bad guys - its the *political*

'chemists'/'scientists' that are the bad guys.

> There's a whole complex process going on, in even more detail than

> what Jim explains. I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying it is

> more complicated than the basics he gives. If we're the ones

> drinking this stuff, then as consumers we have the right to know the

> whole story if we want. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone,

> so please do not pick one with me.

As consumers, we have the Right to make our own decisions. If you don't

trust the stuff, don't take it. But you don't have the 'right' to demand

that someone else invest their own time and money 'proving' this stuff

is safe or effective.

I'm sick to death of the whole 'entitlement' mentality.

I will wholeheartedly support you in pursuing the validation of this

stuff (and any/all other natural means of fighting disease) - as long as

you drop the entitlement attitude.

[Guest guest]

Well, I took it for over 5 weeks. 3 x daily moving up from 1 drop to 7 drops from 3 times daily up to 4 or 5 times daily.

This was the second time.

About 2 - 3 months earlier I took it for about 2 months using the old protocol. Went up to 15 drops twice daily but had to go back gradually due to strong stomach pains.

This should be enough to get rid of helicobacter.

A chinese liquid formula taken 2 times daily + oregano oil, is supposed to work. Well that did not work either. Neither did siver water.

On the other hand to be 100% sure I still have it, I would need to have a Gatroscopy, which I don't feel in the mood of having now. Also symptoms may be of Gastritis.

Has anyone here used MMS for Helicobacter? What where the results.

The problem is that there is no fixed protocol for a certain disease. There are too may variables playing here. It varies from person to person. With the degree of the disease, with one's immune system, with one's ability to detoxify, possible allergies, possible degree of MMS assimilation and various unknown factors not yet discovered. It may cure some persons of a specific disease and others not.

If we all share our experiences in this forum we may learn from each other and come up with better solutions.

> Recently I went to see my Chinese medicine doctor who told me that my> tongue still shows signs of Helycobacter. This seems strange as MMS1> intake for 5 weeks should have cleared this issue, specially as> Helycobacter is located inside the stomach lining in direct contact with> MMS1.I guess that depends on how much of the MMS and how often ... ?