Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

[Guest guest]

Hello Arie,

The short answer to your question is that it has not been well studied, so no

one knows. There has been a lot of study on chlorine dioxide, but MMS is all

about chlorous acid. The chlorous acid studies look at the effectiveness of

mouthwash, and one attempt was made to disinfect blood outside of the body. The

blood disinfection was ineffective on whole blood, but did work on blood plasma.

There was an attempt at clinical trials with a product called WF-10, but the

trials were halted after it was shown that it was not as effective as they had

hoped. If these trials had been effective it would have given MMS a real boost.

Who knows, perhaps they will reformulate and try again.

In industrial settings, chlorine dioxide is used to remove biofilm from piping

and cooling towers. A high dose is added to the inlet water, and the system is

shut down to provide the proper CT value. Then the system is started back up

and the biofilm is collected and removed in the various filters in the system.

Toward the end of the process, chlorine dioxide is again added to the inlet and

the water at the end of the system is measured for a residual of chlorine

dioxide. The idea is that if there is some chlorine dioxide left over after

going through the whole system, the demand for chlorine dioxide is gone and the

biofilm has been eliminated.

It is unfortunate that we can't treat the human body like an industrial piping

system.

I am aware of several people that have followed the 15 drop protocol 3 times a

day for an extended period of time. In these cases as the concentrations

increased various juices were used to tame the taste of the solution. Adding

juice to a chlorine dioxide solution uses up the chlorine dioxide, so there is

less being consumed. In addition they start taking the dose on a full stomach

and the food in the stomach further dilutes the concentration of chlorine

dioxide. The chemistry on these chemicals, and the initial medical information

both indicate that high levels of oxidants can do damage to the body. I hope

that the body is able to quickly repair any damage, but if the oxidation is

continued over a long period of time, I don't know.

Given time, most people get tired of the nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, begin

to listen to their body and back off.

I approach oxidation therapy with caution. I have for years followed the roles

that anti oxidants play in the body and have tried to minimize free radical

damage to my body. Properly administered, there is no doubt that oxidation

therapy is beneficial. There are many studies involving H2O2 and ozone, and

many groups have come up with guidelines and cautions for using these chemicals.

In contrast, almost all of the information on MMS comes from Jim Humble's ideas

and he offers little test data to back up his claims. There are some medical

professionals that believe in oxidation therapies and they are using MMS. What

is interesting is that they don't use high concentration solutions, and don't

use the hour by hour frequency suggestion. Dr. Hesselink has mentioned using

doses 1 - 3 days a week.

Is it possible that medical professionals are better informed about oxidative

stress than Jim Humble is?

While I don't know the answer to this question, my speculation is that it is

indeed possible.

Since the concentration of chlorine dioxide is given in PPM, the concentration

will drop when you add more water. For example a 3 drop dose in 125 ml of water

will give you a concentration of about 190 PPM available chlorine dioxide. The

same 3 drops in 1 liter of water drops the concentration to about 24 PPM.

I think the best approach to oxidative stress is to talk it over with a medical

professional. I have found the sports medicine people seem to better understand

oxidative stress, but that may not be the case in all areas.

Tom

--- In , Arie Alon <maculeleh@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello Tom,

>

> If following a MMS1 protocol of 3 drops x 15 citric acid 10% every about two

hours for a week or two (about 5 times daily), according to the new protocol,

would this cause damages to the stomach/intestinal lining?

>

> Would the amount of water for each dose help? I mean drinking the mixture with

two or more glasses of water.

>

> On this list there a persons with testimonies of taking the old protocol for

about a year without any stomach problems.

>

> What is your opinion?

>

> Thanks/Arie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Arie

I have a lot of stomach problems and thus have a sensitive stomach. I have been

on MMS for over 3 months now and unless I take too much in one dose, I haven't

had any stomach problems. With the new protocol, it's really just adding less

water to the citric acid in the first place. So if you just fill your glass up

with water (or juice that has no Vit C in it), I don't see why it will be any

different. There is still only same amount of citric acid in the glass as in the

old protocol - it's just not diluted as much.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Louise

--- In , Arie Alon <maculeleh@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello Tom,

>

> If following a MMS1 protocol of 3 drops x 15 citric acid 10% every about two

hours for a week or two (about 5 times daily), according to the new protocol,

would this cause damages to the stomach/intestinal lining?

>

> Would the amount of water for each dose help? I mean drinking the mixture with

two or more glasses of water.

>

> On this list there a persons with testimonies of taking the old protocol for

about a year without any stomach problems.

>

> What is your opinion?

>

> Thanks/Arie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise,

How many drops x times daily are you taking MMS?

Is you condition improving? After how long did you start seeing a difference?

If you feel comfortable, please share with us what condition are you targeting.

Are you taking VitC, better EsterC at night?

Thanks

Arie

From: Louise <itsmylifeproject@...> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 4:08:16 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hi ArieI have a lot of stomach problems and thus have a sensitive stomach. I have been on MMS for over 3 months now and unless I take too much in one dose, I haven't had any stomach problems. With the new protocol, it's really just adding less water to the citric acid in the first place. So if you just fill your glass up with water (or juice that has no Vit C in it), I don't see why it will be any different. There is still only same amount of citric acid in the glass as in the old protocol - it's just not diluted as much.Hope that helps. Good luck!Louise>> Hello Tom,> > If following a MMS1 protocol of 3 drops x 15 citric acid 10% every about

two hours for a week or two (about 5 times daily), according to the new protocol, would this cause damages to the stomach/intestinal lining?> > Would the amount of water for each dose help? I mean drinking the mixture with two or more glasses of water.> > On this list there a persons with testimonies of taking the old protocol for about a year without any stomach problems.> > What is your opinion?> > Thanks/Arie>

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom,

The reason that I'm asking, is that I've been having problems with a very uncomfortable feeling in my bladder and an increased urge to urinate more frequently. I started taking MMS 4 days ago, about 4 to 5 times daily starting with one drop and taking 3 to 4 drops now. I've observed that some minutes after taking the solution there is a immediate improvement in symptoms, but after about two hours they return again.

The MMS5 in a 1.5 liter did not help much.

I did some urine tests and culture but it came out negative. According to the urologist the prostate does not seem swollen even though I've been having problems with prostatitis and treat it once in a while with prostate massage.

Next week I'm scheduled for an ultrasound and hope to be more informed on my condition.

So I wanted to keep on with this method of treatment without having and oxidative stress and damage to the stomach lining.

I did take the old protocol about half a year ago for 5 weeks and then the new protocol about three months ago. I had some stomach problems but solved it with Aloe vera juice and brown clay.

Arie

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 2:03:07 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hello Arie,The short answer to your question is that it has not been well studied, so no one knows. There has been a lot of study on chlorine dioxide, but MMS is all about chlorous acid. The chlorous acid studies look at the effectiveness of mouthwash, and one attempt was made to disinfect blood outside of the body. The blood disinfection was ineffective on whole blood, but did work on blood plasma. There was an attempt at clinical trials with a product called WF-10, but the trials were halted after it was shown that it was not as effective as they had hoped. If these trials had been effective it would have given MMS a real boost. Who knows, perhaps they will reformulate and try again.In industrial settings, chlorine dioxide is used to remove biofilm from piping and cooling towers. A high dose is added to the inlet water, and the system is shut down to provide the proper CT value. Then the system is started back up and the biofilm

is collected and removed in the various filters in the system. Toward the end of the process, chlorine dioxide is again added to the inlet and the water at the end of the system is measured for a residual of chlorine dioxide. The idea is that if there is some chlorine dioxide left over after going through the whole system, the demand for chlorine dioxide is gone and the biofilm has been eliminated.It is unfortunate that we can't treat the human body like an industrial piping system. I am aware of several people that have followed the 15 drop protocol 3 times a day for an extended period of time. In these cases as the concentrations increased various juices were used to tame the taste of the solution. Adding juice to a chlorine dioxide solution uses up the chlorine dioxide, so there is less being consumed. In addition they start taking the dose on a full stomach and the food in the stomach further dilutes the concentration of chlorine

dioxide. The chemistry on these chemicals, and the initial medical information both indicate that high levels of oxidants can do damage to the body. I hope that the body is able to quickly repair any damage, but if the oxidation is continued over a long period of time, I don't know.Given time, most people get tired of the nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, begin to listen to their body and back off. I approach oxidation therapy with caution. I have for years followed the roles that anti oxidants play in the body and have tried to minimize free radical damage to my body. Properly administered, there is no doubt that oxidation therapy is beneficial. There are many studies involving H2O2 and ozone, and many groups have come up with guidelines and cautions for using these chemicals. In contrast, almost all of the information on MMS comes from Jim Humble's ideas and he offers little test data to back up his claims. There are some medical

professionals that believe in oxidation therapies and they are using MMS. What is interesting is that they don't use high concentration solutions, and don't use the hour by hour frequency suggestion. Dr. Hesselink has mentioned using doses 1 - 3 days a week.Is it possible that medical professionals are better informed about oxidative stress than Jim Humble is?While I don't know the answer to this question, my speculation is that it is indeed possible.Since the concentration of chlorine dioxide is given in PPM, the concentration will drop when you add more water. For example a 3 drop dose in 125 ml of water will give you a concentration of about 190 PPM available chlorine dioxide. The same 3 drops in 1 liter of water drops the concentration to about 24 PPM.I think the best approach to oxidative stress is to talk it over with a medical professional. I have found the sports medicine people seem to better understand oxidative

stress, but that may not be the case in all areas.Tom>> Hello Tom,> > If following a MMS1 protocol of 3 drops x 15 citric acid 10% every about two hours for a week or two (about 5 times daily), according to the new protocol, would this cause damages to the stomach/intestinal lining?> > Would the amount of water for each dose help? I mean drinking the mixture with two or more glasses of water.> > On this list there a persons with testimonies of taking the old protocol for about a year without any stomach problems.> > What is your opinion?> > Thanks/Arie>

[Guest guest]

Hello Arie,

Since proper activation makes a big difference in the effectiveness of the

solution, how about trying a little different activation?

I have found that when using 10% citric acid in a 1:1 ratio the chlorous acid

solution has about 30% more oxidation power than if you activate according to

the MMS protocol. I think the excess citric acid in the MMS protocol causes

many of the adverse effects that people report.

You may want to consider trying 2 drops of the 22.4% solution activated with 2

drops of 10% citric acid. The activation time is 10 minutes. In 250 ml of

water this will give you a solution that has just under 130 PPM available

chlorine dioxide and about 13 PPM of that as free chlorine dioxide.

To make the same concentration using 5% sodium chlorite you would use 0.5 ml of

5% sodium chlorite and 0.5 ml of 10% citric acid.

I don't think there is an immediate problem with oxidative stress, but it could

become a problem with extended use of oxidatants.

One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are

you trying to disinfect...?

I believe that with bladder concerns it is usually good to drink more water, but

if you do that you also need to watch your electrolytes.

It will be interesting to find out what is seen on the ultrasound.

Tom

--- In , Arie Alon <maculeleh@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello Tom,

>

> The reason that I'm asking, is that I've been having problems with a very

uncomfortable feeling in my bladder and an increased urge to urinate more

frequently. I started taking MMS 4 days ago, about 4 to 5 times daily starting

with one drop and taking 3 to 4 drops now. I've observed that some minutes after

taking the solution  there is a immediate improvement in symptoms, but after

about two hours they return again.

> The MMS5 in a 1.5 liter did not help much.

> I did some urine tests and culture but it came out negative. According to the

urologist the prostate does not seem swollen even though I've been having

problems with prostatitis and treat it once in a while with prostate massage.

> Next week I'm scheduled for an ultrasound and hope to be more informed on my

condition.

> So I wanted to keep on with this method of treatment without having and

oxidative stress and damage to the stomach lining.

> I did take the old protocol about half a year ago for 5 weeks and then the new

protocol about three months ago. I had some stomach problems but solved it with

Aloe vera juice and brown clay.

>

> Arie

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Could you review for me the following:

What is the ppm for 4 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quart of water.

If one doubles to 8 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quarrt of water would it be double the ppmWhat is the ppm for the mouth water solution of 1/2 teaspoon (slightly overflowing) of 22.4% sodium chlorite in 16 oz of water

If one were to activate say 5drops of 5% sodium chlorite with one drop of 50% citric acid for 10 minutes and add 8 oz of water

what would be the ppm be for this.

Would this be a safe solution for a short time to overcome a cold or the flu if sipped every hour or so?

Or if one believed they had a heavy amount of pathogens in their body would you think it would be safe to take the 5drops of 5% sodium clorite activated and in 8 oz of water for a week or until one felt results and then taper off?

Thank you for your help.

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 3:30:53 PMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hello Arie,Since proper activation makes a big difference in the effectiveness of the solution, how about trying a little different activation?I have found that when using 10% citric acid in a 1:1 ratio the chlorous acid solution has about 30% more oxidation power than if you activate according to the MMS protocol. I think the excess citric acid in the MMS protocol causes many of the adverse effects that people report.You may want to consider trying 2 drops of the 22.4% solution activated with 2 drops of 10% citric acid. The activation time is 10 minutes. In 250 ml of water this will give you a solution that has just under 130 PPM available chlorine dioxide and about 13 PPM of that as free chlorine dioxide.To make the same concentration using 5% sodium chlorite you would use 0.5 ml of 5% sodium chlorite and 0.5 ml of 10% citric acid.I don't think there is an immediate problem with oxidative stress, but it could

become a problem with extended use of oxidatants.One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are you trying to disinfect... ?I believe that with bladder concerns it is usually good to drink more water, but if you do that you also need to watch your electrolytes.It will be interesting to find out what is seen on the ultrasound.Tom>> Hello Tom,> > The reason that I'm asking, is that I've been having problems with a very uncomfortable feeling in my bladder and an increased urge to urinate more frequently. I started taking MMS 4 days ago, about 4 to 5 times daily starting with one drop and taking 3 to 4 drops now.

I've observed that some minutes after taking the solution there is a immediate improvement in symptoms, but after about two hours they return again.> The MMS5 in a 1.5 liter did not help much.> I did some urine tests and culture but it came out negative. According to the urologist the prostate does not seem swollen even though I've been having problems with prostatitis and treat it once in a while with prostate massage.> Next week I'm scheduled for an ultrasound and hope to be more informed on my condition.> So I wanted to keep on with this method of treatment without having and oxidative stress and damage to the stomach lining.> I did take the old protocol about half a year ago for 5 weeks and then the new protocol about three months ago. I had some stomach problems but solved it with Aloe vera juice and brown clay. > > Arie

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom,

One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are you trying to disinfect... ?It is interesting to note that 10 minutes after taking MMS all symptoms almost dissapear. When the effect of chlorine dioxide dissipates, after two, three hours the symptoms slowly return and then I take another round of MMS.

Either the lab tests cannot detect certain pathogens (I have done many tests over the years and they all came out negative; even the most advanced ones), or MMS has a misterious way of dealing with this.

On the other hand it did not cure my issue as I have taken it in the past, twice and it always returns.

Arie

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 1:30:53 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hello Arie,Since proper activation makes a big difference in the effectiveness of the solution, how about trying a little different activation?I have found that when using 10% citric acid in a 1:1 ratio the chlorous acid solution has about 30% more oxidation power than if you activate according to the MMS protocol. I think the excess citric acid in the MMS protocol causes many of the adverse effects that people report.You may want to consider trying 2 drops of the 22.4% solution activated with 2 drops of 10% citric acid. The activation time is 10 minutes. In 250 ml of water this will give you a solution that has just under 130 PPM available chlorine dioxide and about 13 PPM of that as free chlorine dioxide.To make the same concentration using 5% sodium chlorite you would use 0.5 ml of 5% sodium chlorite and 0.5 ml of 10% citric acid.I don't think there is an immediate problem with oxidative stress, but it could

become a problem with extended use of oxidatants.One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are you trying to disinfect... ?I believe that with bladder concerns it is usually good to drink more water, but if you do that you also need to watch your electrolytes.It will be interesting to find out what is seen on the ultrasound.Tom>> Hello Tom,> > The reason that I'm asking, is that I've been having problems with a very uncomfortable feeling in my bladder and an increased urge to urinate more frequently. I started taking MMS 4 days ago, about 4 to 5 times daily starting with one drop and taking 3 to 4 drops now.

I've observed that some minutes after taking the solution there is a immediate improvement in symptoms, but after about two hours they return again.> The MMS5 in a 1.5 liter did not help much.> I did some urine tests and culture but it came out negative. According to the urologist the prostate does not seem swollen even though I've been having problems with prostatitis and treat it once in a while with prostate massage.> Next week I'm scheduled for an ultrasound and hope to be more informed on my condition.> So I wanted to keep on with this method of treatment without having and oxidative stress and damage to the stomach lining.> I did take the old protocol about half a year ago for 5 weeks and then the new protocol about three months ago. I had some stomach problems but solved it with Aloe vera juice and brown clay. > > Arie

[Guest guest]

Hello Agnes,

The amount of chemical you dispense in a drop is dependent on the specific

gravity of the chemical. In addition, you have to practice to form an accurate

drop.

This means that while the 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is 4.48 times stronger

than the 5% solution, 1 drop of 22.4% is not the same as 4.48 drops of 5%. To

give you a feel for this let's look at 1 drop of 22.4% in 125 ml of water. This

works out to about 63 PPM of available chlorine dioxide. Using 4.48 drops of 5%

in the same amount of water works out to about 54 PPM of available chlorine

dioxide. That's nearly a 17% difference.

In chemistry and medicine cc and ml measurements are used to insure a uniform

amount is used so that you can get a predictable result. There are occasions

where drops are used, but this is when you can find a measuring device small

enough to do the measurement otherwise.

Let's look at your question in terms of ml measurements...

If you put 0.2 ml of 5% sodium chlorite in 1 liter of water you will have a

concentration of 6 PPM available chlorine dioxide.

If you double that to 0.4 ml, you end up with double the concentration, or 12

PPM.

The target for the mouthwash is in the 800 - 1000 PPM available chlorine dioxide

range. If you put 3.0 ml of 22.4% sodium chlorite in 500 ml of water you end up

with about 806 PPM available chlorine dioxide. Half a teaspoon is 2.5 ml, so a

heaping half a teaspoon should get you close to 3.0 ml. Rather than using a

measuring spoon set, it is more accurate to use a syringe. Most pet supply

stores have inexpensive syringes.

If you put 0.25 ml of 5% sodium chlorite into a glass and add 0.05 ml of 50%

citric acid, swirl to mix and let this activate for 10 minutes, then add 250 ml

of water, you would end up with a solution that has about 30 PPM of available

chlorine dioxide and 6 PPM of that as free chlorine dioxide.

Water purification standards call for 1 PPM chlorine dioxide left over after

disinfection. Your drink is 30 times stronger than what is considered safe for

long term consumption.

That is about the extent of the safety testing so it is difficult to determine

what happens when higher concentrations are taken for a limited amount of time.

With all the people that have used MMS, we do know that higher doses are not

lethal. There is one study that looked at 15 PPM over 12 weeks with humans and

no adverse effects were observed. Considering a cold usually runs less than 12

weeks, you are probably fine with this solution.

However, here is an alternative suggestion for a cold.

Use the mouthwash solution frequently and in addition to swishing be sure to

gargle.

In addition, pick up a 1 ml syringe and frequently, like every 2 hours, put 2.5

ml of a nasal solution into each nostril of your nose. Just tilt your head back

and use the syringe to dribble it in.

The nasal solution is made by putting 0.1 gram of salt in 10 ml of water,

stirring to dissolve, then add to this 10 ml of the mouthwash solution. This

will give you 20 ml of solution with a concentration of about 400 PPM available

chlorine dioxide and when this solution contacts acids (pathogens) in your nose

and sinus area, trace amounts of chlorine dioxide will be released.

After using the nasal solution for a day or two, the infection should be

eliminated. You may then have to reestablish the flora in your nasal area by

introducing some probiotics into your nose, if you are sensitive to sinus

infections.

The mouthwash and gargle will take care of your mouth and throat, and the nasal

solution will work in the sinus area. Since the sodium chlorite is activated

with water in these cases, only trace amounts of chlorine dioxide are released

as needed. In addition some of the chlorous acid is absorbed in the gum tissue

and will end up circulating in your bloodstream. Also, the nasal solution ends

up going down your throat and you end up swallowing some of it.

From a personnel perspective, I, and others in our group, have had much better

success staving off colds and the flu bugs using the mouthwash and nasal

solution than by using oral doses of MMS.

Tom

>

> Tom,

> Could you review for me the following:

> What is the ppm for 4 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quart of water.

> If one doubles  to 8 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quarrt of water would

it be double the ppm

> What is the ppm for the mouth water solution of 1/2 teaspoon (slightly

overflowing) of 22.4% sodium chlorite in 16 oz of water

>

> If one were to activate say 5drops of 5% sodium chlorite  with one drop of

50% citric acid for 10 minutes and add 8 oz of water

> what would be  the ppm be for this.

> Would this be a safe solution for a short time to overcome a cold or the flu

if sipped every hour or so?

>

> Or if one believed they had a heavy amount of pathogens in their body would

you think it would be safe to take the 5drops of 5% sodium clorite activated

and in 8 oz of water   for a week or  until one felt results and then taper

off?

> Thank you for your help.

> Agnes

[Guest guest]

Hello Arie,

Yes... I have been thinking about what you said...

Testing is good, but it always seems to be incomplete.

If you are up to doing some testing on yourself, you may want to try and narrow

down what is helping with the symptoms.

You have already tried sodium chlorite in water, and I believe it did not help

much.

That leaves the citric acid. Citric acid is also used as a anti microbial and

it is quite effective on its own. The MMS protocol ends up with excess citric

acid in the solution, so it is possible that could offer some relief.

Are you up to taking a dose of citric acid by itself?

Let's see, if you are following the MMS protocol and using 10% citric acid and

taking 4 drops of MMS, you would be using 20 drops of citric acid. Start by

trying 10 drops of 10% citric acid in the same amount of water. It will

probably be very " TART " so you may need to add more water.

Citric acid is generally recognized as safe, so I don't believe there are any

safety or health risks in doing this. The tartness may be an issue, but a test

only involves taking it a couple of times and you can always suck on a lemon to

get your taste buds reoriented.

Tom

--- In , Arie Alon <maculeleh@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello Tom,

>

> One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are

you trying to disinfect... ?

>

> It is interesting to note that 10 minutes after taking MMS all symptoms almost

dissapear. When the effect of chlorine dioxide dissipates, after two, three

hours the symptoms slowly return and then I take another round of MMS.

>

> Either the lab tests cannot detect certain pathogens (I have done many tests

over the years and they all came out negative; even the most advanced ones), or

MMS has a misterious way of dealing with this.

>

> On the other hand it did not cure my issue as I have taken it in the past,

twice and it always returns.

>

> Arie

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Thank you for all the info. Regarding a friend, she has type II diabetes. Takes no medication. Always her blood sugar count is 122 - 135 each morning.

At times it's higher or much higher depending on how much sugar she has consumed. She tried 2 drops of MMS 22.4% acidified with 2 drops 50%.citric acid in a glass of water two times a day, morning and night. Her blood sugar count dropped to 95 every day for the week or so she was taking this combination Upon my recommendation she went to 4 drops of 5% citric acid

in one quart of water and taking one glass in the morning and one at night. Her blood sugar went right back to 122 - 135 as usual for the week she has been taking the 5%. Do you have any suggestions? Would it be wise to go back to 2 drops 22.4% activated. And if she does could you suggest if she should take antioxidents and how much. Dr. Blaylock states taking Vitamin C alone is harmful especially for diabetics and taking Vit E alone is also harmful. Vit C becomes a free radical itself and can damage tissues. If interested I can forward the article to you.

At any rate can you suggested what supplements and how much to take to avoid oxidative stress if she goes back to the 2 drops of 22.4% acidified drops?

Also could you tell me again what is the ppm for 2 drops 22.4% sodium chlorite acidified in a glass of water?

Thank you

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Sun, May 9, 2010 11:48:32 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hello Agnes,The amount of chemical you dispense in a drop is dependent on the specific gravity of the chemical. In addition, you have to practice to form an accurate drop.This means that while the 22.4% sodium chlorite solution is 4.48 times stronger than the 5% solution, 1 drop of 22.4% is not the same as 4.48 drops of 5%. To give you a feel for this let's look at 1 drop of 22.4% in 125 ml of water. This works out to about 63 PPM of available chlorine dioxide. Using 4.48 drops of 5% in the same amount of water works out to about 54 PPM of available chlorine dioxide. That's nearly a 17% difference.In chemistry and medicine cc and ml measurements are used to insure a uniform amount is used so that you can get a predictable result. There are occasions where drops are used, but this is when you can find a measuring device small enough to do the measurement otherwise. Let's look at your question in terms of ml

measurements. ..If you put 0.2 ml of 5% sodium chlorite in 1 liter of water you will have a concentration of 6 PPM available chlorine dioxide.If you double that to 0.4 ml, you end up with double the concentration, or 12 PPM.The target for the mouthwash is in the 800 - 1000 PPM available chlorine dioxide range. If you put 3.0 ml of 22.4% sodium chlorite in 500 ml of water you end up with about 806 PPM available chlorine dioxide. Half a teaspoon is 2.5 ml, so a heaping half a teaspoon should get you close to 3.0 ml. Rather than using a measuring spoon set, it is more accurate to use a syringe. Most pet supply stores have inexpensive syringes.If you put 0.25 ml of 5% sodium chlorite into a glass and add 0.05 ml of 50% citric acid, swirl to mix and let this activate for 10 minutes, then add 250 ml of water, you would end up with a solution that has about 30 PPM of available chlorine dioxide and 6 PPM of that as free chlorine

dioxide.Water purification standards call for 1 PPM chlorine dioxide left over after disinfection. Your drink is 30 times stronger than what is considered safe for long term consumption.That is about the extent of the safety testing so it is difficult to determine what happens when higher concentrations are taken for a limited amount of time. With all the people that have used MMS, we do know that higher doses are not lethal. There is one study that looked at 15 PPM over 12 weeks with humans and no adverse effects were observed. Considering a cold usually runs less than 12 weeks, you are probably fine with this solution.However, here is an alternative suggestion for a cold. Use the mouthwash solution frequently and in addition to swishing be sure to gargle. In addition, pick up a 1 ml syringe and frequently, like every 2 hours, put 2.5 ml of a nasal solution into each nostril of your nose. Just tilt your head back and

use the syringe to dribble it in.The nasal solution is made by putting 0.1 gram of salt in 10 ml of water, stirring to dissolve, then add to this 10 ml of the mouthwash solution. This will give you 20 ml of solution with a concentration of about 400 PPM available chlorine dioxide and when this solution contacts acids (pathogens) in your nose and sinus area, trace amounts of chlorine dioxide will be released.After using the nasal solution for a day or two, the infection should be eliminated. You may then have to reestablish the flora in your nasal area by introducing some probiotics into your nose, if you are sensitive to sinus infections.The mouthwash and gargle will take care of your mouth and throat, and the nasal solution will work in the sinus area. Since the sodium chlorite is activated with water in these cases, only trace amounts of chlorine dioxide are released as needed. In addition some of the chlorous acid is absorbed

in the gum tissue and will end up circulating in your bloodstream. Also, the nasal solution ends up going down your throat and you end up swallowing some of it.From a personnel perspective, I, and others in our group, have had much better success staving off colds and the flu bugs using the mouthwash and nasal solution than by using oral doses of MMS.Tom >> Tom,> Could you review for me the following:> What is the ppm for 4 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quart of water.> If one doubles to 8 drops of 5% sodium chlorite in a quarrt of water would it be double the ppm> What is the ppm for the mouth water solution of 1/2 teaspoon

(slightly overflowing) of 22.4% sodium chlorite in 16 oz of water> > If one were to activate say 5drops of 5% sodium chlorite with one drop of 50% citric acid for 10 minutes and add 8 oz of water> what would be  the ppm be for this.> Would this be a safe solution for a short time to overcome a cold or the flu if sipped every hour or so?> > Or if one believed they had a heavy amount of pathogens in their body would you think it would be safe to take the 5drops of 5% sodium clorite activated and in 8 oz of water   for a week or until one felt results and then taper off?> Thank you for your help.> Agnes

[Guest guest]

Tom,

No I'm not taking Citric Acid by itself. I may try it at a later stage.

Once mixed MMS with citric acid after 3 minutes, wouldn't it be now a chlorine dioxide solution?

Combining two chemical that result in a third? There is no citric acid any more. From a layman point of view...

Arie

From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Sun, May 9, 2010 10:06:01 PMSubject: [ ] Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Hello Arie,Yes... I have been thinking about what you said... Testing is good, but it always seems to be incomplete.If you are up to doing some testing on yourself, you may want to try and narrow down what is helping with the symptoms.You have already tried sodium chlorite in water, and I believe it did not help much.That leaves the citric acid. Citric acid is also used as a anti microbial and it is quite effective on its own. The MMS protocol ends up with excess citric acid in the solution, so it is possible that could offer some relief.Are you up to taking a dose of citric acid by itself?Let's see, if you are following the MMS protocol and using 10% citric acid and taking 4 drops of MMS, you would be using 20 drops of citric acid. Start by trying 10 drops of 10% citric acid in the same amount of water. It will probably be very "TART" so you may need to add more water.Citric acid is

generally recognized as safe, so I don't believe there are any safety or health risks in doing this. The tartness may be an issue, but a test only involves taking it a couple of times and you can always suck on a lemon to get your taste buds reoriented.Tom>> Hello Tom,> > One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what are you trying to disinfect... ?> > It is interesting to note that 10 minutes after taking MMS all symptoms almost dissapear. When the effect of chlorine dioxide dissipates, after two, three hours the symptoms slowly return and then I take another round of MMS.> > Either the lab tests cannot detect

certain pathogens (I have done many tests over the years and they all came out negative; even the most advanced ones), or MMS has a misterious way of dealing with this.> > On the other hand it did not cure my issue as I have taken it in the past, twice and it always returns.> > Arie

[Guest guest]

Hello Agnes,

It looks like we need to find a bio chemist...

Changes in blood sugar do signal the bodies immune system response. Blood sugar

levels will rise, for example, before you show any symptoms of a cold. A wild

guess may be that the acidified sodium chlorite solution is taking some of the

load off of the immune system and the body is responding by lowering the blood

sugar levels.

Since your friend is able to test different approaches, she can experiment a

little. However, if the 2 drops are working, I generally don't argue with

success.

2 drops of the 22.4% sodium chlorite in 250 ml of water will give you about 63

PPM available chlorine dioxide. Using 50% citric to activate you would end up

with about 13 PPM of that as free chlorine dioxide.

The 5% sodium chlorite solution is much safer to handle, and I would recommend

diluting the 22.4% solution down to 5%.

To mix up the same concentration you would put 0.527 ml (use a 1 ml syringe to

measure) of 5% sodium chlorite in a glass and add 0.1 ml of 50% citric acid.

Swirl and let the activation continue for 10 minutes. Add this to 250 ml of

water.

If she is up to more testing, you can have her put 2.5 ml (1/2 teaspoon) of 5%

sodium chlorite in 1 liter of water. She can drink that and measure her blood

sugar levels. If that does not allow her to reach her target level she can try

again by putting 5 ml (1 teaspoon) in 1 liter of water. If that doesn't work, I

would go back to the solution activated with citric acid.

Chlorine dioxide and chlorous acid are oxidizers. All anti oxidants will

neutralize them.

Tom

>

> Tom,

> Thank you for all the info. Regarding a friend,  she has type II diabetes.

Takes no medication. Always  her blood sugar count is 122 - 135 each morning.

> At times it's higher or much higher depending on how much sugar she has

consumed. She tried 2 drops of MMS 22.4% acidified with 2 drops 50%.citric

acid  in a glass of water two times a day, morning and night.  Her blood sugar

count dropped to 95 every day for the week or so she was taking this

combination  Upon my recommendation she went to 4 drops of 5% citric acid

> in one quart of water and taking one glass in the morning and one at night.

 Her blood sugar went right back to 122 - 135 as usual for the week she has

been taking the 5%. Do you have any suggestions? Would it be wise to go  back

to 2 drops 22.4% activated.  And if she does could you suggest if she should

take antioxidents and how much. Dr. Blaylock states taking Vitamin C alone is

harmful  especially for diabetics and taking Vit E alone is also harmful.  Vit

C becomes a free radical itself and can damage tissues. If interested I can

forward the article to you.

> At any rate can you suggested what supplements and how much to take to avoid

oxidative stress if she goes back to the 2 drops of  22.4% acidified drops?

> Also could you tell me again what is the ppm for 2 drops 22.4% sodium chlorite

 acidified in a glass of water?

> Thank you

> Agnes

[Guest guest]

Hello Arie,

When sodium chlorite is properly activated, that is true. However, the MMS

protocol is flawed and it calls for 5 times as much citric acid as is needed for

proper activation. This results in a combined chlorous acid and citric acid

solution.

I attribute many of the stomach upset causes with the excess citric acid in the

doses.

The most efficient activation of sodium chlorite using 10% citric acid is in a

1:1 ratio. One part sodium chlorite is activated with 1 part of 10% citric

acid. The proper activation time is 10 minutes at room temperature.

When using 50% citric acid the ration is 5:1. That is 5 parts sodium chlorite

to 1 part 50% citric acid. The activation time is still 10 minutes.

When testing this I found that proper activation resulted in a solution that had

30 - 40% more oxidizing power than one activated using the MMS protocol. It is

unfortunate that Jim Humble didn't consult with a chemist before formulating his

protocol.

Tom

> >

> > Hello Tom,

> >

> > One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what

are you trying to disinfect... ?

> >

> > It is interesting to note that 10 minutes after taking MMS all symptoms

almost dissapear. When the effect of chlorine dioxide dissipates, after two,

three hours the symptoms slowly return and then I take another round of MMS.

> >

> > Either the lab tests cannot detect certain pathogens (I have done many tests

over the years and they all came out negative; even the most advanced ones), or

MMS has a misterious way of dealing with this.

> >

> > On the other hand it did not cure my issue as I have taken it in the past,

twice and it always returns.

> >

> > Arie

>

[Guest guest]

This is a question for the whiz Tom.

The Sodium Chlorite I have is 28% and the citric acid is 50%. I was told to do

1:1.

Is that not correct?

Thank you

> > >

> > > Hello Tom,

> > >

> > > One issue that comes to mind is that if you don't have an infection, what

are you trying to disinfect... ?

> > >

> > > It is interesting to note that 10 minutes after taking MMS all symptoms

almost dissapear. When the effect of chlorine dioxide dissipates, after two,

three hours the symptoms slowly return and then I take another round of MMS.

> > >

> > > Either the lab tests cannot detect certain pathogens (I have done many

tests over the years and they all came out negative; even the most advanced

ones), or MMS has a misterious way of dealing with this.

> > >

> > > On the other hand it did not cure my issue as I have taken it in the past,

twice and it always returns.

> > >

> > > Arie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Serailee,

In industry, thousands of tests have been run to determine the most effective

way to activate sodium chlorite. They found that when using citric acid the

most effective solution results from using a 5:1 ratio with 50% citric acid, or

a 1:1 ratio with 10% citric acid. Citric acid crystals can also be used in a

10:1 ratio.

The 5:1 ratio means that you activate 5 parts of sodium chlorite with 1 part of

50% citric acid. The 10:1 ratio means that you activate 10 parts of sodium

chlorite with 1 part citric acid crystals.

I have run tests that indicated that the proper activation yields a solution

that has 30 - 40% more oxidizing power than a solution activated according to

the MMS protocol.

I don't know what tests Jim Humble did to come up with his activation ratio, but

since he started with vinegar, perhaps his method is valid for vinegar

activation. Vinegar is too expensive to use for industrial high volume

applications, so using vinegar to activate is not well studied. On top of that,

vinegar imparts a taste to what the solution is applied to, so that makes it not

desirable to use. When you move to activation with citric acid, that has been

well studied and is used in many applications.

I asked Jim Humble what tests he did to come up with is activation protocol, and

he is unwilling to share his test methods or results. The best I can come up

with is that he looked at the chemistry and thought that all of the sodium

chlorite would be turned into chlorine dioxide. He doesn't seem to understand

chlorous acid. To be fair to Jim, I have had other chemists come up with

similar ideas, until they understood chlorous acid and the timed release of

chlorine dioxide. After instructing them to run some simple tests, they began

to understand the activation process and confirmed the industrial activation

ratio.

MMS doesn't seem to work in every case, but I think it is best to give it the

best chance of working. This means that you need to understand the chemistry,

the proper method of activation, and what neutralizes the chlorous acid

solution. With these basics understood you have the best chance of having it

work.

Tom

--- In , " serailee " <epinette@...>

wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This is a question for the whiz Tom.

> The Sodium Chlorite I have is 28% and the citric acid is 50%. I was told to do

1:1.

>

> Is that not correct?

>

> Thank you

[Guest guest]

Thank you Tom.

The figuring out of numbers part of my brain has not yet been reclaimed, but I will copy to my notes and one day I hope I will understand it. In the meantime I don't think what I have been taking will harm me and it has given me positive results.

5.2.

Re: Chlorine dioxide - stomach/intestinal lining

Posted by: "silverfox_science" poast@... silverfox_science

Tue May 11, 2010 5:51 pm (PDT)

Hello Serailee,In industry, thousands of tests have been run to determine the most effective way to activate sodium chlorite. They found that when using citric acid the most effective solution results from using a 5:1 ratio with 50% citric acid, or a 1:1 ratio with 10% citric acid. Citric acid crystals can also be used in a 10:1 ratio.The 5:1 ratio means that you activate 5 parts of sodium chlorite with 1 part of 50% citric acid. The 10:1 ratio means that you activate 10 parts of sodium chlorite with 1 part citric acid crystals.I have run tests that indicated that the proper activation yields a solution that has 30 - 40% more oxidizing power than a solution activated according to the MMS protocol.I don't know what tests Jim Humble did to come up with his activation ratio, but since he started with vinegar, perhaps his method is valid for vinegar activation. Vinegar is too expensive to use for industrial high volume applications, so using vinegar to activate is not well studied. On top of that, vinegar imparts a taste to what the solution is applied to, so that makes it not desirable to use. When you move to activation with citric acid, that has been well studied and is used in many applications.I asked Jim Humble what tests he did to come up with is activation protocol, and he is unwilling to share his test methods or results. The best I can come up with is that he looked at the chemistry and thought that all of the sodium chlorite would be turned into chlorine dioxide. He doesn't seem to understand chlorous acid. To be fair to Jim, I have had other chemists come up with similar ideas, until they understood chlorous acid and the timed release of chlorine dioxide. After instructing them to run some simple tests, they began to understand the activation process and confirmed the industrial activation ratio.MMS doesn't seem to work in every case, but I think it is best to give it the best chance of working. This means that you need to understand the chemistry, the proper method of activation, and what neutralizes the chlorous acid solution. With these basics understood you have the best chance of having it work.Tom>> > > > > > This is a question for the whiz Tom. > The Sodium Chlorite I have is 28% and the citric acid is 50%. I was told to do 1:1. > > Is that not correct?> > Thank you