Re: Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

[Guest guest]

My physician uses H2O2 is used for cancer treatment. I have not seen any literature on its carcinogenicity and it does not sound logical to me since the body's white cells produce H2O2 to kill microbes. Are you saying H2O2 can cause cancer? Would you post your references for this please?

Also recommended by the physician is H2O2 in the bath water.

-- [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

Hello Agnes,Hydrogen peroxide and chlorine dioxide are both oxidizers. H2O2 has an oxidation potential of 1.8, which is just a little less than ozone. ClO2 has an oxidation potential of 1.5.H2O2 can be targeted to be selective through the use of PH and temperature. ClO2 is less sensitive to PH and temperature. H2O2 can also be used with a catalyst to target a specific organism.In water treatment, ClO2 is more stable that H2O2 but H2O2 is often used in conjunction with ozone and UV. H2O2 is not approved by itself for water disinfection.The by products of oxidation are free radicals. H2O2 produces reactive oxygen radicals and ClO2 produces chlorite. Both of these free radicals can do oxidative damage and put the body under oxidative stress.H2O2 has more health effects including carcinogenic and mutational effects. In the body it targets the lungs, the intestines, the thymus, the liver, and the kidneys. ClO2 has not been found to be neither carcinogenic or mutational, but in the body chlorite targets all the organs including the brain, it can reduce blood cell volume, and it has a half life of a little over 40 hours. As a gas ClO2 also damages the lungs and the respiratory pathways.Since both chemicals are oxidizers, if they come into contact with pathogens that can be oxidized with an effective concentration for an effective amount of time, the pathogen will be oxidized. In that way both are similar.Let's look at using a mouthwash. When you use H2O2 as a mouthwash, you subject your entire mouth to oxidative stress, including the germs you are trying to kill. In contrast, when you use stabilized chlorine dioxide (sodium chlorite) as a mouthwash, only the areas where the germs are residing are subjected to oxidation because in the mouth the germs are acidic and the acid activates the stabilized chlorine dioxide solution to produce chlorine dioxide in a local area. This localized chlorine dioxide kills the germs and gets used up before it can subject the rest of the mouth to oxidative stress.In the air, ClO2 is much more effective, for example when working to eliminate odors, mold, and mildew.In the body, I think H2O2 is more reactive. In order to get H2O2 into the blood, you have to administer it via IV. On the other hand you can dip your hand into a ClO2 solution and some ClO2 will make it into your blood, where it is quickly converted to chlorite.I haven't really done an in depth comparison between H2O2 and ClO2, but off the top of my head this should give you an idea of the similarities and differences.Tom>> Tom,> Please advise how hydrogen peroxide and mms affect the body respectively and /or comparatively. It appears they both treat pathogens and the same diseases.>

[Guest guest]

Tom, thank you very much. Your explanations are very helpful towards an understanding of these products

Agnes

From: silverfox_science <poast@...>Subject: [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms Date: Saturday, June 12, 2010, 2:54 PM

Hello Agnes,Hydrogen peroxide and chlorine dioxide are both oxidizers. H2O2 has an oxidation potential of 1.8, which is just a little less than ozone. ClO2 has an oxidation potential of 1.5.H2O2 can be targeted to be selective through the use of PH and temperature. ClO2 is less sensitive to PH and temperature. H2O2 can also be used with a catalyst to target a specific organism.In water treatment, ClO2 is more stable that H2O2 but H2O2 is often used in conjunction with ozone and UV. H2O2 is not approved by itself for water disinfection.The by products of oxidation are free radicals. H2O2 produces reactive oxygen radicals and ClO2 produces chlorite. Both of these free radicals can do oxidative damage and put the body under oxidative stress.H2O2 has more health effects including carcinogenic and mutational effects. In the body it targets the lungs, the intestines, the thymus, the liver, and the kidneys. ClO2

has not been found to be neither carcinogenic or mutational, but in the body chlorite targets all the organs including the brain, it can reduce blood cell volume, and it has a half life of a little over 40 hours. As a gas ClO2 also damages the lungs and the respiratory pathways.Since both chemicals are oxidizers, if they come into contact with pathogens that can be oxidized with an effective concentration for an effective amount of time, the pathogen will be oxidized. In that way both are similar.Let's look at using a mouthwash. When you use H2O2 as a mouthwash, you subject your entire mouth to oxidative stress, including the germs you are trying to kill. In contrast, when you use stabilized chlorine dioxide (sodium chlorite) as a mouthwash, only the areas where the germs are residing are subjected to oxidation because in the mouth the germs are acidic and the acid activates the stabilized chlorine dioxide solution to produce chlorine

dioxide in a local area. This localized chlorine dioxide kills the germs and gets used up before it can subject the rest of the mouth to oxidative stress.In the air, ClO2 is much more effective, for example when working to eliminate odors, mold, and mildew.In the body, I think H2O2 is more reactive. In order to get H2O2 into the blood, you have to administer it via IV. On the other hand you can dip your hand into a ClO2 solution and some ClO2 will make it into your blood, where it is quickly converted to chlorite.I haven't really done an in depth comparison between H2O2 and ClO2, but off the top of my head this should give you an idea of the similarities and differences.Tom>> Tom,> Please advise how hydrogen peroxide and mms affect the body respectively and /or comparatively. It appears they both treat pathogens and the same diseases.>

[Guest guest]

According to the link you sent, "H2O2 is a natural product of metabolism" and at "250 mg/kg/day)6 for up to 700 days", which is a very high lab animal dose over a long period of time.

There level used in IV preparations 0.0375% per 100 ml dose. The following link presents more detailed information on the therapeutic use of peroxide.

http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/Hydrogen%20Peroxide%20Therapy.pdf

Almost anything is toxic in huge amounts including water and air.

The BC Cancer Agency or the American Cancer Society would not likely support or endorse H2O2 treatment since it is an alternative treatment and little money can be made (treatments prices range from 25-50 dollars per IV).

I hate to see alternative options categorized as "carcinogenic" or somehow detrimental when the dosing it at the level that would never be used in reality.

I have done about 30 IV peroxide treatments and found them very helpful for my Lyme Disease and I plan on doing more treatments this summer when I am on break from MMS.

If I ever develop lung cancer, IV peroxide would be my treatment of choice.

-- [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

Hello ,The devil seems to be in the details...While H2O2 is generally recognized as safe in very low concentrations, problems arise when the concentrations are higher. Here is a summary of H2O2. http://cira.ornl.gov/documents/HydrogenPeroxide.pdfYou will notice that human carcinogenicity testing wasn't done because they found problems in the animal testing. The people at the BC Cancer Agency don't seem to support H2O2 for cancer...http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/HydrogenPeroxide.htmThe water treatment people also refer to H2O2 as a carcinogen. http://www.lentech.com I believe that they do this because they are handling higher concentrations.Tom> >> > Tom,> > Please advise how hydrogen peroxide and mms affect the body respectively> and /or comparatively. It appears they both treat pathogens and the same> diseases.> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

I have been trying to catch up on my e-mail, and your dicussion on Hydrogen Peroxide here caught my attention.

Is that what you folks are calling H2O2? I do use it (the little brown bottle you buy at the drug store) on a rare occasion to swish around in my mouth to kill germs, bacteria and other various, little nasties. But from what I have read, this may not be advisable?

Sorry to make you repeat yourself, Doc, but can you clarify that particular point for me with a quick "yup" or "nope?"

Thanks!

~Rod

[ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

Hello ,According to the link you sent..."Dr.Farr, and some other physicians, feel that free-radicals areproduced in the stomach when H2O2 is administered orally, and thesefree-radicals are not safe. Combinations of fatty acids which are likely to be in the stomach in the presence of iron and ascorbate may reduce hydrogen peroxide to hydroxyl and superoxide free radicals. These may have a deleterious effect upon the gastric and duodonal mucosa, with an increase of glandular stomach erosion, duodonal hyperplasia (abnormal increase in number of cells), adenoma and carcinoma,..."Now if the only use of H2O2 was for IV use in the 0.0375% concentration, there would be no need for any further discussion. However, they go on to suggest a variety of other uses of H2O2, and those uses are at much higher concentrations.For example look at the vegetable soak. "If time is a problem, spray vegetables (and fruits) with a solution of 3%. Let stand for a few minutes, rinse and dry."Since fresh vegetables often have dirt on them, and dirt has a variety of minerals in it, it is possible to produce some of the superoxide free radicals during this process. If your rinse and dry is less than perfect, you can subject yourself to them.In the same way, the 3% concentration used for a mouthwash is much stronger than the 0.0375% used for IV.As I said before, the devil is in the details...I am very pleased to hear that you are finding improvements in your health after using IV H2O2. AND I hope you never contract lung cancer. However, if you do, the IV use would be much safer than breathing in H2O2 fumes...I agree that there are risks associated with all treatments. However, just because the white blood cells totally engulf a pathogen and then, once the pathogen has been totally removed from the blood stream, it attacks it with HClO and H2O2 to kill it, does not mean that free floating H2O2 in the blood stream is natural. If the body is full of infection, the extra oxidation is beneficial, but a body full of infection is not natural either.I believe the IV use of H2O2 is well studied and safe to use. I also believe that the higher concentrations advertised for other uses has the capability of causing problems, with one of those problems being cancer. In my house, I have replaced 3% H2O2 with 0.1% HClO2. I have found it to be more effective and believe it is safer for topical use.TomNote: HClO2 is chlorous acid. It is made by adding 3.7 ml of 22.4% sodium chlorite to 500 ml of water.> > >> > > Tom,> > > Please advise how hydrogen peroxide and mms affect the body respectively> > and /or comparatively. It appears they both treat pathogens and the same> > diseases.> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I don't recall recommending or mentioning the ingestion of peroxide in my post, but I will reread it.

In regard to veggies; rinse and dry. I don't think this thread is worth persuing any longer since the examples below present remote possibilitiy.

I appreciate your opinion.

-- [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

Hello ,According to the link you sent..."Dr.Farr, and some other physicians, feel that free-radicals areproduced in the stomach when H2O2 is administered orally, and thesefree-radicals are not safe. Combinations of fatty acids which are likely to be in the stomach in the presence of iron and ascorbate may reduce hydrogen peroxide to hydroxyl and superoxide free radicals. These may have a deleterious effect upon the gastric and duodonal mucosa, with an increase of glandular stomach erosion, duodonal hyperplasia (abnormal increase in number of cells), adenoma and carcinoma,..."Now if the only use of H2O2 was for IV use in the 0.0375% concentration, there would be no need for any further discussion. However, they go on to suggest a variety of other uses of H2O2, and those uses are at much higher concentrations.For example look at the vegetable soak. "If time is a problem, spray vegetables (and fruits) with a solution of 3%. Let stand for a few minutes, rinse and dry."Since fresh vegetables often have dirt on them, and dirt has a variety of minerals in it, it is possible to produce some of the superoxide free radicals during this process. If your rinse and dry is less than perfect, you can subject yourself to them.In the same way, the 3% concentration used for a mouthwash is much stronger than the 0.0375% used for IV.As I said before, the devil is in the details...I am very pleased to hear that you are finding improvements in your health after using IV H2O2. AND I hope you never contract lung cancer. However, if you do, the IV use would be much safer than breathing in H2O2 fumes...I agree that there are risks associated with all treatments. However, just because the white blood cells totally engulf a pathogen and then, once the pathogen has been totally removed from the blood stream, it attacks it with HClO and H2O2 to kill it, does not mean that free floating H2O2 in the blood stream is natural. If the body is full of infection, the extra oxidation is beneficial, but a body full of infection is not natural either.I believe the IV use of H2O2 is well studied and safe to use. I also believe that the higher concentrations advertised for other uses has the capability of causing problems, with one of those problems being cancer. In my house, I have replaced 3% H2O2 with 0.1% HClO2. I have found it to be more effective and believe it is safer for topical use.TomNote: HClO2 is chlorous acid. It is made by adding 3.7 ml of 22.4% sodium chlorite to 500 ml of water.> > >> > > Tom,> > > Please advise how hydrogen peroxide and mms affect the body respectively> > and /or comparatively. It appears they both treat pathogens and the same> > diseases.> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-06-13 12:29 PM, Rod Zorger wrote:

> Is that what you folks are calling H2O2? I do use it (the little brown

> bottle you buy at the drug store) on a rare occasion to swish around in

> my mouth to kill germs, bacteria and other various, little nasties. But

> from what I have read, this may not be advisable?

The stuff you buy in the drug store should *not* be used internally. It

has lot of other junk (stabilizers, etc) added to it.

Buy 35% food grade and make your own 3% (or 1.5%, or lower) for use

internally. Its much cheaper to boot...

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the info.

I'm glad I asked, because I would have kept on using it for a mouth wash on occasion.

~Rod

Re: [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

On 2010-06-13 12:29 PM, Rod Zorger wrote:> Is that what you folks are calling H2O2? I do use it (the little brown> bottle you buy at the drug store) on a rare occasion to swish around in> my mouth to kill germs, bacteria and other various, little nasties. But> from what I have read, this may not be advisable?The stuff you buy in the drug store should *not* be used internally. Ithas lot of other junk (stabilizers, etc) added to it.Buy 35% food grade and make your own 3% (or 1.5%, or lower) for useinternally. Its much cheaper to boot...

[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it. Since I have the MMS handy, I'll start using it, and probably more regularly, too.

~Rod

[ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

Hello Rod,Over a long period of time people have been using hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) as a mouthwash, and they have survived.I happen to believe that the sodium chlorite solution is more effective and safer, but we must keep focused upon the goal. The goal is good oral hygiene. Tom

[Guest guest]

On 2010-06-13 2:12 PM, Rod Zorger wrote:

> On Jun 13, 2010 2:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

>> The stuff you buy in the drug store should *not* be used

>> internally. It has lot of other junk (stabilizers, etc) added to

>> it.

>>

>> Buy 35% food grade and make your own 3% (or 1.5%, or lower) for

>> use internally. Its much cheaper to boot...

> Thank you for the info.

>

> I'm glad I asked, because I would have kept on using it for a mouth

> wash on occasion.

It probably wouldn't hurt you as long as you spit it all out, but why

use something that has toxic impurities in it when you don't have to?

[Guest guest]

I agree.

That's why I'm glad I asked about it. I had no idea that it had any toxic contents. Like I said, since I have the MMS now, -I won't go back to using the Hydrogen Peroxide.

~Rod

Re: [ ] Re: hypdrogen peroxide and mms

On 2010-06-13 2:12 PM, Rod Zorger wrote:> On Jun 13, 2010 2:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:>> The stuff you buy in the drug store should *not* be used>> internally. It has lot of other junk (stabilizers, etc) added to>> it.>> >> Buy 35% food grade and make your own 3% (or 1.5%, or lower) for>> use internally. Its much cheaper to boot...> Thank you for the info.> > I'm glad I asked, because I would have kept on using it for a mouth> wash on occasion.It probably wouldn't hurt you as long as you spit it all out, but whyuse something that has toxic impurities in it when you don't have to?