Guest guest Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 What follows is the approval of a message from a new member, with moderator comments first... and I have discussed this. I am neither anti-MMS or pro-MMS. I have headed off in new directions. My experience with MMS goes back to the beginning of the phenomenon. I did Humble's first protocol and nearly killed myself with it. I came very close to ruining my heart. The silver lining was this- my heart was already bad and when it got worse I got dead serious about learning to bring it back to life and I succeeded. I admit to having a burr under my saddle about Humble. When he heard my story he was dismissive. He has changed his protocols very reluctantly. After having been very active on alternative medical groups for over 10 years, I am very familiar with the pharma trolls, whether paid or not. I can usually pick them out and I begin to ignore everything from them. I cut my own path. Not everyone does and plenty will be mislead in every way possible. Well, some of us who cut our own path also fall off a cliff that we couldn't see in the underbrush (I actually nearly did that one time). However, this message that follows really makes my nostrils flare. It is very obvious who it is directed towards. The authoritarian part of me is inclined to delete it but the libertarian part says let it out there and let people go their own way. feels pretty much the same way. I see this as a blatant attempt to cull off members to a new group and I have no doubt that the leader of such a group will squelch dissent and form his own dogma. I'll have no part of it. I believe that bright light never hurt a good idea or helped a bad one. The light has been intense here lately. With all that said, I assume you are all adults here whether you act like it or not. You can make your own decisions. You can do what you want to do and go where you want to go. What will not be allowed is personal attacks. - be forewarned- you will not further accuse any members here of being pharma whores. If they are, we'll figure it out. DaddyBob And now without further ado... Dear group, I have been silently watching for awhile. I will just tell you what I know and let each person come to their own decision. I like helpful advice as much as the next guy but everyone needs to understand what is at stake in a group like this with almost 1500 members. Big pharma has enormous profits at risk when someone like Jim Humble comes along curing the conditions he has cured, and word gets out in groups like this. I belong to a couple other groups run by an old-timer who has been moderating for years. Whenever the occasion comes up, he tells the story about how he actually spoke with a professor who admitted to being a paid troll hired by big pharma to disrupt alternative health groups. The man got paid big money to sit on several groups and contribute helpful advice on minor issues not posing a big threat to pharma profits in order to build credibility. Then as time would go on and credibility is established, the troll takes positions causing disruption and doubt on the core issues presented by the alternative therapy. Big pharma can afford to hire some top quality trolls in situations like this because of what is at stake for them. In a group this size I would guess there are at least 3 trolls. There may be one lead who is a real smooth talker and the others sit in the background in case he is seriously challenged. I am a lawyer by training and the way I look at it, a man like Jim Humble who has dedicated his life to humanitarian efforts is one of the most credible sources of info you will ever find. He is not seeking riches, he gives his best info away for free and he lives with the poor and oppressed taking on their worst diseases with simple tools. The malariainitiative.com site that healinghope cites below also has two MDs that are using Jim's exact protocol for malaria treatment. One of those MDs has dedicated her life to humanitarian efforts as well. These people are not liars and deceivers, and they sure as heck know what is curing the masses of people they are treating. It is easy for armchair trolls living here in the lap of luxury to criticize and undermine the credibility of people who have put their lives on the line to help others. What turns my stomach is they are getting paid big bucks under the table to be PHARMA WHORES and lie to us. They pretend to be helpful, and they genuinely are on minor issues, but they totally attack and disrupt when it comes to curing serious diseases. If you see this happening, then be aware you are being deceived. If there is enough interest out there, maybe we should start another MMS group that respects Jim's accomplishments and bans the pharma whores as soon as they rear their ugly heads. I could moderate such a group. Jim is curing the worst diseases out there. If anyone doubts his reports, then they need to go live with him for a few weeks and see what is happening. I have seen no credible reasons to doubt Jim's reports. He is a careful humanitarian who is just sharing what he has learned down in the trenches fighting the worst diseases of Africa. Blessings to you all, Harrah [ ] Re: What really happens with MMS in the body http://www.miracle-mineral-supplement.eu/mmsnatriumchlorit/historyofmms/index.ph\ p http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en & langpair=de|en & u=http://www.mms-f%FC\ r-haustiere.de/ & client=tmpg > > > > > > Hello Mflynn44, > > > > It is important to understand that the reason we try to figure out how something works is to assess the safety of using it. > > > > Just because we don't know how it works does not mean that you can receive some short term benefit from using it. > > > > Once you understand how something works, you can run it by a microbiologist to determine what the risks are. > > > > When you are thinking like an inventor, you throw reason out the window and brainstorm lots of ideas and combination's. Afterword, you explore what you have " dreamed " up and see if there is any sense in any of it. This is usually done by asking someone that knows more about what you are looking at than you do. You then have to look at the answers given and spend time further developing your idea. > > > > Jim Humble followed this. When he began adding acid to sodium chlorite he noticed a " chlorine " like odor. He was confused because the sodium chlorite was being called stabilized oxygen. He asked chemistry people if the reaction between acid and sodium chlorite produced oxygen. He was told that it doesn't produce oxygen, but produces chlorine dioxide. The odor he observed was not chlorine, but chlorine dioxide. > > > > Jim Humble then researched chlorine dioxide and ran with that information to develop the MMS protocol. He ignored studying how the chlorine dioxide used in the various tests and studies was produced. I suspect that he felt that chlorine dioxide is chlorine dioxide and if it can purify water and if the body has lots of water in it, it must be able to purify the body too. > > > > In his book, Jim Humble confessed that he was not the best at testing or chemistry. This lack of experience caused him to miss what actually is going on. While he claims to have done a lot of testing with these chemicals, he missed a very important test. He should have questioned where all the chlorine dioxide went when a dose of MMS is mixed up and swished in the mouth for 15 - 30 seconds, then spit back out into a glass. You start with a yellow solution that has a strong odor and spit out a clear solution without odor. The answer to this is that the chlorine dioxide reacted with saliva in the mouth and was used up. I have heard it estimated that there are something like 70,000 different germs in the mouth. That gives the chlorine dioxide a lot to work with, and with that high a load it ends up being used up. > > > > Jim Humble also missed the placebo effect. People who do medical treatment testing understand that they can expect at least 30% of the test group to have a positive response. This is why double blind studies are done. If you have 21 people in two groups and plan to give one group something that you hope works, and the other group a placebo, you expect at least 7 people of each group will respond favorably to the treatment. While there is nothing wrong with a placebo improvement, simply having someone show improvement does not mean that the treatment is effective. > > > > I might add that with animals the placebo effect is more difficult to produce. Double blind studies are generally not needed in animal studies. > > > > After reviewing a lot of information on MMS, I am not sure it has reached 30% success yet. Everyone experiences some improvement shortly after starting the protocol, but only a few have made it to a full cure. > > > > Jim Humbles lack of testing experience also leads him to claim 100% success. If you feel bad, take some MMS. If you feel better afterword, you are cured. While I think it is wonderful that people feel better, where is the follow up? I know a few people that when they feel bad they visit the bar. After a few drinks they feel much better. However, when they wake up the next morning, they are back to feeling bad. > > > > The bottom line is that no one knows what chlorous acid does inside the body. It has not been studied. > > > > Chlorous acid, as it breaks down, does release small amounts of chlorine dioxide, so chlorine dioxide may play some part in how this stuff works, but chlorine dioxide is so reactive that it doesn't last for any length of time inside the body. The best guess that I have run across is that dilute chlorous acid is working in the body in a similar way that dilute hydrochloric acid was found to work in the 1930's and 1940's. Most if the information on dilute HCl therapy refers to it being injected via IV, however there were some directions for oral use. With HCl you have a breakdown of hydrogen and chlorine. With chlorous acid you have hydrogen and chlorine dioxide. Since chlorine is more stable inside the body, dilute HCl therapy may be more effective. Unfortunately, there are no studies to look at this. > > > > It is my hope that Dr. Hesselink will " stumble " across the difference between chlorous acid and chlorine dioxide and take all of this to the next level. > > > > The reason to activate is to produce a known quantity of chlorous acid. When you ingest sodium chlorite you rely upon your stomach acid to activate it. If you drink a glass of water first, your stomach acid can be diluted. If you taste something bitter first, the stomach acid can be concentrated. However, if you activate it first the stomach acid, or lack of it, has little effect on it. > > > > Topical use is different. Unactivated sodium chlorite can provide long term protection like deodorant. However, when you take your shoes off after walking a few miles and your feet stink, you want immediate results and that is where the activated solution comes into play. Those are two extremes and there are thousands of shades of gray between them. > > > > One of the interesting gray areas is activating with water. When you do this it only takes a small amount of acid to complete the reaction to get some useful chlorine dioxide. This is the principle behind the mouthwash. Keep in mind that chlorine dioxide is a gas and it doesn't care if the organic material it bumps into is acidic or alkaline, good or bad, it will simply react with whatever it bumps into. The challenge is getting the correct concentration that is right on the brink of activating, but is still stable. This results in activation if acid is present in the mouth, or no activation if the mouth is clean. > > > > Chlorine dioxide, chlorous acid, chlorine, hypochlorous acid, hydrogen peroxide, ozone and hydrochloric acid are all oxidizers. When they are used, free radicals are produced. When " playing " with these chemicals you need to be aware of that and you need to figure a way to deal with them through the use of anti oxidants. > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In , " mflynn44 " <mflynn44@> wrote: > > > > > > Tom... > > > Thank you for your infinite patience regarding all these questions about MMS. Would you comment on the following? > > > > > > My understanding is the chlorine dioxide generated in activated MMS is probably consumed by the time the solution reaches the stomach so there is no reason to activate the sodium chlorite unless using it as a mouthwash or perhaps in something like a bath. > > > > > > What's really happening with MMS? Is sodium chlorite or chlorous acid or something else somehow entering the bloodstream and generating chlorine dioxide whenever it comes into contact with something acidic? I think MMS has helped me and I know it has helped my pets. I'd like to understand the mechanism of what is actually happening. I'm concerned about problems within the body such as oxidation and free radicals. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Hello and Daddybob, Thank you for allowing 's post to come through. This is not my forum and I am a guest here, but I think it is important to discuss things from a wide variety of perspectives. Your moderation efforts are excellent and thank you for keeping things on topic. While not addressed directly, I am going to go out on a limb a little and assume that her comments were directed toward me. I will do my best to keep things on topic and be informative in my response. Tom --- In , " daddybob52954 " <ransley@...> wrote: > > What follows is the approval of a message from a new member, with moderator comments first... > > and I have discussed this. I am neither anti-MMS or pro-MMS. I have headed off in new directions. My experience with MMS goes back to the beginning of the phenomenon. I did Humble's first protocol and nearly killed myself with it. I came very close to ruining my heart. The silver lining was this- my heart was already bad and when it got worse I got dead serious about learning to bring it back to life and I succeeded. > > I admit to having a burr under my saddle about Humble. When he heard my story he was dismissive. He has changed his protocols very reluctantly. > > After having been very active on alternative medical groups for over 10 years, I am very familiar with the pharma trolls, whether paid or not. I can usually pick them out and I begin to ignore everything from them. I cut my own path. Not everyone does and plenty will be mislead in every way possible. Well, some of us who cut our own path also fall off a cliff that we couldn't see in the underbrush (I actually nearly did that one time). > > However, this message that follows really makes my nostrils flare. It is very obvious who it is directed towards. The authoritarian part of me is inclined to delete it but the libertarian part says let it out there and let people go their own way. feels pretty much the same way. > > I see this as a blatant attempt to cull off members to a new group and I have no doubt that the leader of such a group will squelch dissent and form his own dogma. I'll have no part of it. I believe that bright light never hurt a good idea or helped a bad one. The light has been intense here lately. > > With all that said, I assume you are all adults here whether you act like it or not. You can make your own decisions. You can do what you want to do and go where you want to go. > > What will not be allowed is personal attacks. - be forewarned- you will not further accuse any members here of being pharma whores. If they are, we'll figure it out. > > DaddyBob > > And now without further ado... > > > Dear group, > > I have been silently watching for awhile. I will just tell you what I know and let each person come to their own decision. I like helpful advice as much as the next guy but everyone needs to understand what is at stake in a group like this with almost 1500 members. Big pharma has enormous profits at risk when someone like Jim Humble comes along curing the conditions he has cured, and word gets out in groups like this. > > I belong to a couple other groups run by an old-timer who has been moderating for years. Whenever the occasion comes up, he tells the story about how he actually spoke with a professor who admitted to being a paid troll hired by big pharma to disrupt alternative health groups. The man got paid big money to sit on several groups and contribute helpful advice on minor issues not posing a big threat to pharma profits in order to build credibility. Then as time would go on and credibility is established, the troll takes positions causing disruption and doubt on the core issues presented by the alternative therapy. > > Big pharma can afford to hire some top quality trolls in situations like this because of what is at stake for them. In a group this size I would guess there are at least 3 trolls. There may be one lead who is a real smooth talker and the others sit in the background in case he is seriously challenged. > > I am a lawyer by training and the way I look at it, a man like Jim Humble who has dedicated his life to humanitarian efforts is one of the most credible sources of info you will ever find. He is not seeking riches, he gives his best info away for free and he lives with the poor and oppressed taking on their worst diseases with simple tools. > > The malariainitiative.com site that healinghope cites below also has two MDs that are using Jim's exact protocol for malaria treatment. One of those MDs has dedicated her life to humanitarian efforts as well. These people are not liars and deceivers, and they sure as heck know what is curing the masses of people they are treating. > > It is easy for armchair trolls living here in the lap of luxury to criticize and undermine the credibility of people who have put their lives on the line to help others. What turns my stomach is they are getting paid big bucks under the table to be PHARMA WHORES and lie to us. They pretend to be helpful, and they genuinely are on minor issues, but they totally attack and disrupt when it comes to curing serious diseases. If you see this happening, then be aware you are being deceived. > > If there is enough interest out there, maybe we should start another MMS group that respects Jim's accomplishments and bans the pharma whores as soon as they rear their ugly heads. I could moderate such a group. Jim is curing the worst diseases out there. If anyone doubts his reports, then they need to go live with him for a few weeks and see what is happening. I have seen no credible reasons to doubt Jim's reports. He is a careful humanitarian who is just sharing what he has learned down in the trenches fighting the worst diseases of Africa. > > Blessings to you all, > > Harrah > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.