Re: @ Tom, corn question

[Guest guest]

Hello Rose,

Now we are getting into advanced applications...

It is easy to kill mold and mildew. The problem comes when trying to keep it at

bay without " tainting " what you are trying to store. Part of the challenge is

the method of storage. Chlorine dioxide was found to be not effective when

testing was done with potato storage. Piles of potatoes have too much free air

to allow for the concentrations needed, and near the bottom of the pile there is

too much dirt to allow the chlorine dioxide to contact the potatoes.

Strawberries are much easier because if you stack them too deep, they mush.

I am not aware of any studies on corn, but that doesn't mean that they haven't

been done.

Enclosed storage involves having a packet of the chemicals in salt form inside

the storage area. The humidity in the air adds enough moisture to get the

reactions going and then the size of the package is adjusted to obtain an

effective concentration of chlorine dioxide gas inside the container. Care must

be taken when opening the container because of the chlorine dioxide gas.

Corn presents a problem because in the ear it is tightly wrapped. Still

chlorine dioxide gas is very good at permeating things, so it may work fine.

One way to do this is to take a plastic container (Tupperware sandwich size) and

using a half a paper towel you put the paper towel on the bottom, then put down

a layer of sodium chlorite powder (I use about 1 tablespoon). Now fold the

paper towel over the sodium chlorite and add citric acid crystals (once again I

use about 1 tablespoon). The humidity in the air is collected by the paper

towel and it forms the citric aicd and sodium chlorite solution a little bit at

a time. The paper towel allows for the two chemicals to mix together without

having a run away reaction. The result is small amounts of chlorine dioxide

being released into the air over a long period of time.

This is an experimental set up. The safety problem is that the paper towel is

organic and sodium chlorite can react with organic material to a point where if

the conditions are right UV light can cause it to catch fire. Also, there can

be issues when you go to clean things up and change out the chemicals. I

haven't looked for a synthetic material that will work as well as the paper

towel, but I am sure there is something out there that will work.

You can " jump start " this set up by putting a damp paper towel over the top of

the container. This will give you an initial burst of chlorine dioxide gas to

get things under control, then the slow release keeps the mold and mildew away.

The goal in these applications is to keep the level of chlorine dioxide below

the odor threshold. This makes it easy to check how things are going, but if

you can't smell it you don't know how much there is. There are instruments that

can detect low thresholds of chlorine dioxide gas, but they are expensive and

the materials used for each test are also expensive. This testing equipment

makes sense for commercial use, but for hobby use it is usually a trial and

error process. You take your best guess and see if you detect an odor. If you

do, you back off a little. If you don't you add a little.

Tom

--- In , " palulukon " <palulukon@...>

wrote:

>

> 22.4% = flakes + distilled water and has a PH of about 12. The PH makes it

> stabilized chlorine dioxide.

>

> 5% = flakes + distilled water and has a PH of about 11.8. The PH makes it

> stabilized chlorine dioxide.

>

>

>

> Both are stabilized.

>

>

>

> Tom

>

>

>

> Ah, thanks Tom, all clear now. It is simply marketing hype.

>

>

>

> And right, salt has no ph…until added to water. There I go web whoring and

> getting all sorts of misinformation (blush)

>

>

>

> Thanks also for tobacco information. I'm going to post it to the tobacco

> forum. This is an easy way to kill spores for long term storage. We buy in

> 1 # bags and don't smoke it up that fast. We have 2 ½ and 5 gallon

> Tupperware containers so this is good info. Would also work for long term

> storage of bird seed. Mold is not usually an issue but it's been a lush

> season. I was reading about the fungi problem with corn, use lots of corn

> here so already scheming in my head how to mass treat. If I have 50# of

> corn in large can how deep can the gas penetrate if I gas the corn?

>

>

>

> You mentioned to me months ago what a wonderful descaler 22.4 is. Bought a

> small coffee maker at a yard sale the other day for hubby to have at work.

> Clogged to the max. straight vinegar, several applications, did not touch

> it. Funny thing is the woman, and I know she was telling the truth, one of

> those very sweet but not overly bright lights, said sure it works honey, we

> used it when we went camping two weeks ago (had elec hook up). I had the

> best time imagining the fam sitting around this coffee machine watching it

> for an hour while it dripped one little drip by one little drip. Anyway,

> covered in old funky grease…bleh…and clogged to the max but only a $1 and

> just exactly the size I was wanting. couldn't remember if you gave me ratio

> to clean with SC or not, said to heck with it and poured in straight then

> added a dash of water. Stuff bubbled from places that I didn't know could

> bubble. That little pot came to life as if being born again J vinegar

> cleaning is a thing of the past.

>

>

>

> Xxx

>

>

>

> rose

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tom, I'll play with it. I buy 150# corn

every two weeks and it is used up at the end of two weeks. Not looking

for long term storage, just to kill the mold that might be present. The co

op where I buy says they test for aflatoxins but what I am reading I'm thinking

this is a bigger deal than is realized. All our birds are healthy...but

adding a bit of gassing doesn't seem like a ill advised idea. Catching

the coup on fire does J

I wrote to the tobacco company this morning about using

SC protocols, also inquired as to if there have been problems with this

particular tobacco. It is a family owned co, dad blends on site…very

reputable. I will also post this on the tobacco forum. Many members

do long term storage, more looking into it as the long arm of govt seeks to

protect us from ourselves…oh right, save the children *rolls eyes*.

Was encouraged to find some members using colloidal

silver for mold inhibition. I can spray CS on champagne grapes that we

get going into state of mold, we get right off from the organic market for our

beast sanctuary. The cs kills all the mold, it disappears, taste

wonderful…and will last for weeks. Champagne grapes are the most

famous for mold. They crash and burn in a flash.

All this very interesting to me bc of the connection with

mold, fungus and tie in with dis/ease. Just finished reading twice ‘Because

People Are Dying’…excellent book imho. The further

exploration into mold/fungal got my wheels to working…

Much appreciation for you here…and your never

ending patience in explanations

rose

[Guest guest]

So, thinking about barrels of bird seed, or corn. The question would be--how to get the SC to work all the way through. I'm thinking the corn might not be so bad, because the holes drilled in the pipe could be small enough so that the corn wouldn't fall through. But seed would be tougher.

I'm imagining a PVC pipe maybe glued into the bottom of the barrel--or one of the flat holders glued in and then the pipe just slid in where it can be taken out if needed. X amount of space at the end of the pipe is not drilled, so as to hold the SC and CA. You'd put this inside the pipe, and as you say, maybe a bit of damp paper towel to jump start it, then wouldn't the gas travel up and out the holes so that more of the corn/seed/whatever would be exposed to it?

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

The goal in these applications is to keep the level of chlorine dioxide below the odor threshold. This makes it easy to check how things are going, but if you can't smell it you don't know how much there is. There are instruments that can detect low thresholds of chlorine dioxide gas, but they are expensive and the materials used for each test are also expensive. This testing equipment makes sense for commercial use, but for hobby use it is usually a trial and error process. You take your best guess and see if you detect an odor. If you do, you back off a little. If you don't you add a little.

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Chlorine dioxide is actually heaver than air. If you can blanket the top with

gas, it should work its way to the bottom. The problem comes in determining how

much chlorine dioxide is needed. Ideally, you want the bottom to have just

enough to do the job, but if there is a heavy load half way up, all of the

chlorine dioxide may be used up dealing with that heavy load.

We deal with this by taking an air sample from the bottom, then adjusting the

amount going into the top. This works great, but there is a lot of variability.

This makes determining a universal recipe very difficult to do.

I have no problem checking the progress several times a day, but others may have

different hobbies and other demands on their time. As of now, this is not a

" plug and play " application.

Tom

>

> So, thinking about barrels of bird seed, or corn. The question would

> be--how to get the SC to work all the way through. I'm thinking the corn

> might not be so bad, because the holes drilled in the pipe could be small

> enough so that the corn wouldn't fall through. But seed would be tougher.

>

> I'm imagining a PVC pipe maybe glued into the bottom of the barrel--or one

> of the flat holders glued in and then the pipe just slid in where it can be

> taken out if needed. X amount of space at the end of the pipe is not

> drilled, so as to hold the SC and CA. You'd put this inside the pipe, and

> as you say, maybe a bit of damp paper towel to jump start it, then wouldn't

> the gas travel up and out the holes so that more of the corn/seed/whatever

> would be exposed to it?

>

> Samala,

>

>

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> The goal in these applications is to keep the level of chlorine dioxide

> below the odor threshold. This makes it easy to check how things are going,

> but if you can't smell it you don't know how much there is. There are

> instruments that can detect low thresholds of chlorine dioxide gas, but they

> are expensive and the materials used for each test are also expensive. This

> testing equipment makes sense for commercial use, but for hobby use it is

> usually a trial and error process. You take your best guess and see if you

> detect an odor. If you do, you back off a little. If you don't you add a

> little.

>

[Guest guest]

Ah. Got it. I was thinking of long term storage for my bird seed. Only have the 2 birds--and just in case things get bad I would like to have a large amount stored for them. What my plan is now--put the seed in the freezer for 48 hours to kill any creepy crawlies, then store in buckets. This should be good for a year at least. They say that it is fine to store seed without freezing for a year--but I have had PLENTY of seed opened from factory sealed containers that have seed moths already hatched and destroying the seed. If I put that away for a year without freezing, when I opened up a year later there wouldn't be any decent seed left for them.

Which is why I was thinking of the SC, but--I believe the freezer would be better for this as I would have no way of monitoring the bottom of the buckets.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

Chlorine dioxide is actually heaver than air.

[Guest guest]

For my feed and seed here on the farm I mix red lake food grade DE in. I also

use this in my domestic moist pet food as a natural de wormer. Works great in

the barnyard floor to, no flies or parasites.

http://www.wormsetc.com/shop/diatomaceous-earth.html

http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/redearth.htm

>

> Ah. Got it. I was thinking of long term storage for my bird seed. Only

> have the 2 birds--and just in case things get bad I would like to have a

> large amount stored for them. What my plan is now--put the seed in the

> freezer for 48 hours to kill any creepy crawlies, then store in buckets.

> This should be good for a year at least. They say that it is fine to store

> seed without freezing for a year--but I have had PLENTY of seed opened from

> factory sealed containers that have seed moths already hatched and

> destroying the seed. If I put that away for a year without freezing, when I

> opened up a year later there wouldn't be any decent seed left for them.

>

> Which is why I was thinking of the SC, but--I believe the freezer would be

> better for this as I would have no way of monitoring the bottom of the

> buckets.

>

> Samala,

>

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

>

> Chlorine dioxide is actually heaver than air.

>

[Guest guest]

Shoot, I forgot all about the DE. We freeze the small batches of seed, but yes--DE would work great. Thanks for reminding me Hope.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

For my feed and seed here on the farm I mix red lake food grade DE in. I also use this in my domestic moist pet food as a natural de wormer. Works great in the barnyard floor to, no flies or parasites.