Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 , Your numbers are off, too generous. One grain is 60 mg. The 60 mg, each grain, of Armour is advertised to be the equivalent in activity to 100 mcg of Synthroid. Thus, she says she is taking the equivalent of 1100 mcg of Synthroid, 12.5 times what she was actually on. I would not be surprised if reality is somewhere in between your 7.5 and the official 12.5, but your question is still pertinent. You asked: > ... What the heck happens to the ingested hormone if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg > Synthroid? ... In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per day, she is also taking lots of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine activity. That is one of the published toxicity effects, which only doctors working for pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to detect. Sam, Gracia, and others may be achieving a balance by off setting overdoses. Whether they could achieve a similar balance with lower doses of each is not clear. People that need extra large doses may not be converting T4 to T3 effectively. When that happens, it goes instead into RT3 which fills T3 receptors and blocks the active hormone. This not only ties up a lot of the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does get processed. This is one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. It is also one of the body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It simply shifts the balance toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and starvation do the same thing. All of the reduced iodine forms have additional iodine removed before they are eliminated by the liver. Then there is the binding issue. We would need detailed lab results to sort out the clues as to what was happening. Sam, do you have those? Do you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? That cuts the amount actually absorbed by at least half. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 I wonder if I'm getting the right dosage. 2gr of Thyrolar 4T4-1T3 as opposed to Armour 4.22T4-1T3. I don't take iodine, not a big shellfishe eater, and for ages, have not even used iodized salt, but started using it recently. I need to lose weight, and feel more energetic, I have severe back problems and am starting with a physical therapist this week. Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > , > > Your numbers are off, too generous. One grain is 60 > mg. The 60 mg, each > grain, of Armour is advertised to be the equivalent > in activity to 100 > mcg of Synthroid. Thus, she says she is taking the > equivalent of 1100 > mcg of Synthroid, 12.5 times what she was actually > on. I would not be > surprised if reality is somewhere in between your > 7.5 and the official > 12.5, but your question is still pertinent. > > You asked: > > ... What the heck happens to the ingested hormone > if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg > > Synthroid? ... > > In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per day, she > is also taking lots > of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine > activity. That is one of > the published toxicity effects, which only doctors > working for > pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to detect. > Sam, Gracia, and > others may be achieving a balance by off setting > overdoses. Whether they > could achieve a similar balance with lower doses of > each is not clear. > > People that need extra large doses may not be > converting T4 to T3 > effectively. When that happens, it goes instead into > RT3 which fills T3 > receptors and blocks the active hormone. This not > only ties up a lot of > the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does get > processed. This is > one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. It > is also one of the > body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It simply > shifts the balance > toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and > starvation do the same thing. > > All of the reduced iodine forms have additional > iodine removed before > they are eliminated by the liver. > > Then there is the binding issue. We would need > detailed lab results to > sort out the clues as to what was happening. Sam, do > you have those? Do > you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? That > cuts the amount > actually absorbed by at least half. > > Chuck > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 I do buy cage free eggs. I think that keeping any animal in one place its whole life is horrible. I buy Pilgrim's pride chicken. I am not sure if they are cage free, but they advertise no added hormones or antibiotics. > > > > > > > > > Semantics. " Natural " = found in nature. I just can't go out and > > > capture a synthroid the same way I can hunt and capture a wild pig, > > > now can I? > > > > Yes, semantics. You can't capture a wild Armour, either. > > > > They have to separate the active ingredients from the pulverized gland > > and mix them back into the preparation to insure batch to batch > > consistency. Then they add preservatives to keep it from degrading. > > That's about as natural as a Twinkie. > > > > But, again, the real issue is whether you get the right mix of > metabolic > > products by eating T4 or eating T4 with little T3, T2 and other > > metabolic products already there. One of the original arguments against > > Armour, was that it effectively bypassed the body's regulatory > > mechanisms that determine how much T3, etc. is needed. There was a real > > fear that the mix in Armour might produce too much T3. > > > > We now know that fear was unfounded, but there is still no reason to > > think that Armour is optimal for anyone, let alone everyone. Obviously, > > it is closer to optimal than T4 alone for many people, but that does > not > > mean it is optimal. You seem to be assuming that an animal product will > > automatically be optimal, while the synthetic can't be, which is a non > > sequitur. The optimal mix will vary between people, and it has nothing > > to do with pigs. > > > > The T4 is the same molecule, whether it came from a pig or a test tube. > > Nature can't distinguish between them. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Roni, Compared to Sam, you are getting 1/6 of the thyroid and essentially none of the iodine. However, my proclivity would be to look at blood tests before taking a leap into alternative medicine land. Forest says up to 3 grains of Armour is the norm. Thyrolar is close enough for the same guideline. Chuck > > > I wonder if I'm getting the right dosage. 2gr of > Thyrolar 4T4-1T3 as opposed to Armour 4.22T4-1T3. > I don't take iodine, not a big shellfishe eater, and > for ages, have not even used iodized salt, but started > using it recently. > > I need to lose weight, and feel more energetic, I have > severe back problems and am starting with a physical > therapist this week. > > Roni > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@... <mailto:gumboyaya%40cox.net>> wrote: > > > , > > > > Your numbers are off, too generous. One grain is 60 > > mg. The 60 mg, each > > grain, of Armour is advertised to be the equivalent > > in activity to 100 > > mcg of Synthroid. Thus, she says she is taking the > > equivalent of 1100 > > mcg of Synthroid, 12.5 times what she was actually > > on. I would not be > > surprised if reality is somewhere in between your > > 7.5 and the official > > 12.5, but your question is still pertinent. > > > > You asked: > > > ... What the heck happens to the ingested hormone > > if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg > > > Synthroid? ... > > > > In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per day, she > > is also taking lots > > of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine > > activity. That is one of > > the published toxicity effects, which only doctors > > working for > > pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to detect. > > Sam, Gracia, and > > others may be achieving a balance by off setting > > overdoses. Whether they > > could achieve a similar balance with lower doses of > > each is not clear. > > > > People that need extra large doses may not be > > converting T4 to T3 > > effectively. When that happens, it goes instead into > > RT3 which fills T3 > > receptors and blocks the active hormone. This not > > only ties up a lot of > > the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does get > > processed. This is > > one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. It > > is also one of the > > body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It simply > > shifts the balance > > toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and > > starvation do the same thing. > > > > All of the reduced iodine forms have additional > > iodine removed before > > they are eliminated by the liver. > > > > Then there is the binding issue. We would need > > detailed lab results to > > sort out the clues as to what was happening. Sam, do > > you have those? Do > > you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? That > > cuts the amount > > actually absorbed by at least half. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 , You wrote: > ...I am not talking to you about the T4-T3 topic anymore and if > you say something to me, I am just going to ignore it. I'm not trying to be > rude, but we're just going in pointless circles here. Fine by me, but all of my comment addressed to you were in response to your questions. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 NO NO NO Chuck you are mistaken. THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSE OF ARMOUR IS 3--5 GRAINS PER DAY. It is not a huge dose at all, it's what works. I do not take Armour with food. I chew up my Armour while I am making yummy coffee--maybe 10 minutes later I drink coffee con leche. I think you should join the iodine group http://www.iodine There are many peeps there who are big fans of iodine, others are just confused b/c they don't take enough. 50mg/day seems to be the therapeutic dose. my last test #s were .06 TSH, tippy top free T4 and over the top free T3. IMO perfect #s. Gracia You asked: > ... What the heck happens to the ingested hormone if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg > Synthroid? ... In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per day, she is also taking lots of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine activity. That is one of the published toxicity effects, which only doctors working for pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to detect. Sam, Gracia, and others may be achieving a balance by off setting overdoses. Whether they could achieve a similar balance with lower doses of each is not clear. People that need extra large doses may not be converting T4 to T3 effectively. When that happens, it goes instead into RT3 which fills T3 receptors and blocks the active hormone. This not only ties up a lot of the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does get processed. This is one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. It is also one of the body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It simply shifts the balance toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and starvation do the same thing. All of the reduced iodine forms have additional iodine removed before they are eliminated by the liver. Then there is the binding issue. We would need detailed lab results to sort out the clues as to what was happening. Sam, do you have those? Do you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? That cuts the amount actually absorbed by at least half. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/890 - Release Date: 7/7/2007 3:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 My doctor says he'll retest me in August. I told him I'd wait out the new tests. I intend to ask for an adrenal check too. I don't think I need anything like the doses some people on this list are taking, but I might need some more Thyrolar. Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Roni, > > Compared to Sam, you are getting 1/6 of the thyroid > and essentially none > of the iodine. However, my proclivity would be to > look at blood tests > before taking a leap into alternative medicine land. > Forest says up to 3 > grains of Armour is the norm. Thyrolar is close > enough for the same > guideline. > > Chuck > > > > > > > I wonder if I'm getting the right dosage. 2gr of > > Thyrolar 4T4-1T3 as opposed to Armour 4.22T4-1T3. > > I don't take iodine, not a big shellfishe eater, > and > > for ages, have not even used iodized salt, but > started > > using it recently. > > > > I need to lose weight, and feel more energetic, I > have > > severe back problems and am starting with a > physical > > therapist this week. > > > > Roni > > > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya%40cox.net>> wrote: > > > > > , > > > > > > Your numbers are off, too generous. One grain > is 60 > > > mg. The 60 mg, each > > > grain, of Armour is advertised to be the > equivalent > > > in activity to 100 > > > mcg of Synthroid. Thus, she says she is taking > the > > > equivalent of 1100 > > > mcg of Synthroid, 12.5 times what she was > actually > > > on. I would not be > > > surprised if reality is somewhere in between > your > > > 7.5 and the official > > > 12.5, but your question is still pertinent. > > > > > > You asked: > > > > ... What the heck happens to the ingested > hormone > > > if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg > > > > Synthroid? ... > > > > > > In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per > day, she > > > is also taking lots > > > of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine > > > activity. That is one of > > > the published toxicity effects, which only > doctors > > > working for > > > pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to > detect. > > > Sam, Gracia, and > > > others may be achieving a balance by off > setting > > > overdoses. Whether they > > > could achieve a similar balance with lower > doses of > > > each is not clear. > > > > > > People that need extra large doses may not be > > > converting T4 to T3 > > > effectively. When that happens, it goes instead > into > > > RT3 which fills T3 > > > receptors and blocks the active hormone. This > not > > > only ties up a lot of > > > the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does > get > > > processed. This is > > > one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. > It > > > is also one of the > > > body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It > simply > > > shifts the balance > > > toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and > > > starvation do the same thing. > > > > > > All of the reduced iodine forms have additional > > > iodine removed before > > > they are eliminated by the liver. > > > > > > Then there is the binding issue. We would need > > > detailed lab results to > > > sort out the clues as to what was happening. > Sam, do > > > you have those? Do > > > you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? > That > > > cuts the amount > > > actually absorbed by at least half. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 on another list there was a retired MD/ND!!! who was born with no thyroid gland. He takes 5 grains Armour 2X a day=10 grains. He also takes 12.5mg Iod0ral. (iodine is good for more than thyroid gland). Gracia Now, a question to you, Chuck, Gracia or anybody: What the heck happens to the ingested hormone if someone takes the equivalent of 660 mcg Synthroid? Everything I've read indicates it's not likely to have good results; yet Sam feels fantastic. How can she not be HYPER??? I just don't have a mental model for this. > Recent Activity a.. 8New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 your fibro symptoms would go away on enough Armour and adrenal meds, iodine works too. But serum adrenal testing is not accurate---it all comes back " normal " . Gracia My doctor says he'll retest me in August. I told him I'd wait out the new tests. I intend to ask for an adrenal check too. I don't think I need anything like the doses some people on this list are taking, but I might need some more Thyrolar. Roni Recent Activity a.. 8New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Evidently, there is a small patient population that develops muscle and joint pain because the Armour dose is actually doing its job, or they are allergic to someithing in it. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that I didn't feel well on the Armour, and do feel well on the Thyrolar. I have many allergies, so I could be one of those people. I do want' to try more thyroid, but not before I have the testing and also adrenal testing. They can't ALL come out normal. If I do try the increased thyrolar, and get the severe, much worse then now, pains again, I'll know it's my adrenals. Also, I looked at a picture of where the adrenals are, and from time to time I have pain on the left side just about where the picture shows the adrenal gland is located. Roni Roni --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > your fibro symptoms would go away on enough Armour > and adrenal meds, iodine works too. But serum > adrenal testing is not accurate---it all comes back > " normal " . > Gracia > > > My doctor says he'll retest me in August. I told > him > I'd wait out the new tests. I intend to ask for an > adrenal check too. I don't think I need anything > like > the doses some people on this list are taking, but > I > might need some more Thyrolar. > > Roni > > > Recent Activity > a.. 8New Members > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Gracia, You wrote: > ... THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSE OF ARMOUR IS 3--5 GRAINS > PER DAY. It is not a huge dose at all, it's what works.... Your argument is with Forest Pharmaceuticals, the people that sell Armour. They say the maximum dose is 3 grains, and that any more than that indicates pathology. I thought you said you ate whatever you wanted with your Armour, and that you routinely had more than coffee. If you don't, that rules out that part of my speculation. Sorry about my vegan comment earlier about feedlots. That was the result of a discussion on another list. My neurons got crossed. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Thanks, Chuck. Glad you're around to straighten me out! [ggg] Not that I'm going to pretend to understand it all. > > Re: Natural > <hypothyroidism/message/29495;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMDNwYTN\ tBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjk0OTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzkzMTU0Ng--> > > > > Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Natural> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001> > > > Sun Jul 8, 2007 12:52 pm (PST) > > , > > Your numbers are off, too generous. One grain is 60 mg. The 60 mg, each > grain, of Armour is advertised to be the equivalent in activity to 100 > mcg of Synthroid. Thus, she says she is taking the equivalent of 1100 > mcg of Synthroid, 12.5 times what she was actually on. I would not be > surprised if reality is somewhere in between your 7.5 and the official > 12.5, but your question is still pertinent. > > You asked: > > ... What the heck happens to the ingested hormone if someone takes > the equivalent of 660 mcg > > Synthroid? ... > > In addition to her 2400 mg of ibuprofen per day, she is also taking lots > of iodine, which is known to block thyroxine activity. That is one of > the published toxicity effects, which only doctors working for > pharmaceutical companies seem to be able to detect. Sam, Gracia, and > others may be achieving a balance by off setting overdoses. Whether they > could achieve a similar balance with lower doses of each is not clear. > > People that need extra large doses may not be converting T4 to T3 > effectively. When that happens, it goes instead into RT3 which fills T3 > receptors and blocks the active hormone. This not only ties up a lot of > the input T4, it actively neutralizes what does get processed. This is > one of the possible mechanisms in fibromyalgia. It is also one of the > body's defense mechanisms to excess T4. It simply shifts the balance > toward RT3 instead of T3. Stress, fever, and starvation do the same thing. > > All of the reduced iodine forms have additional iodine removed before > they are eliminated by the liver. > > Then there is the binding issue. We would need detailed lab results to > sort out the clues as to what was happening. Sam, do you have those? Do > you take your Armour with food, as Gracia does? That cuts the amount > actually absorbed by at least half. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Ok, boys...sooooo, you'd like to see me lower my Armour to what, 3 gains and watch me go into myxedema coma? Perhaps switch me to a large dose of synthroid and risk me going back into multi organ failure, or at the least become bald again, and crippled, obese, with severe bone loss? AGAIN? I've been there and it ain't pretty. Maybe y'all would take me off BHRT and put me on premarin so I get to enjoy blasting headaches and nasty breast lumps, AGAIN? Oh and have me go off ibuprofen so I am either in agony AGAIN, or get to become addicted to opiates for pain (those are the ONLY other thing that works for me)? So much for quality of life, eh? I suppose if I lied and told you I was on 2-3 grains Armour, 150mcg iodine or NO iodine, you'd send me congrats on my success with health. I really think you guys are too fixated on the amounts rather than the results. My saliva hormone levels are beautiful. My (other than hormones) bloods are awesome. My cholesterol is fabulous. BP just about perfect. yadda yadda yadda... ALL I did was give my body that which it needed. Hormones (thyroid/sex) all dosed by symptoms, and stopped only when my symptoms stopped. I'm a well educated, highly intelligent individual who does NOT have a death wish, and I am brave enough to go against convention and do what's right " for me " . What's right " for me " may not be right for anyone else, but I am not anyone else, I am " me " . I am 55, I look 36, and I feel like I am a teenager once again. I am very fit, and I bet I'm a lot more healthy than many people in this group. If you doubt me, come visit me in person and see for yourself. I have a medical guy that watches over me like a hawk and he is delighted with my health. He calls me " the girl who has to be different " . I also do weight training...wanna arm wrestle? Sam (100 mies north of Seattle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'm really happy for you Sam! What is BHRT? Beautiful Hormone Replacement Therapy? lol. :-) In a message dated 7/9/2007 12:17:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, k9gang@... writes: Ok, boys...sooooo, you'd like to see me lower my Armour to what, 3 gains and watch me go into myxedema coma? Perhaps switch me to a large dose of synthroid and risk me going back into multi organ failure, or at the least become bald again, and crippled, obese, with severe bone loss? AGAIN? I've been there and it ain't pretty. Maybe y'all would take me off BHRT and put me on premarin so I get to enjoy blasting headaches and nasty breast lumps, AGAIN? Oh and have me go off ibuprofen so I am either in agony AGAIN, or get to become addicted to opiates for pain (those are the ONLY other thing that works for me)? So much for quality of life, eh? I suppose if I lied and told you I was on 2-3 grains Armour, 150mcg iodine or NO iodine, you'd send me congrats on my success with health. I really think you guys are too fixated on the amounts rather than the results. My saliva hormone levels are beautiful. My (other than hormones) bloods are awesome. My cholesterol is fabulous. BP just about perfect. yadda yadda yadda... ALL I did was give my body that which it needed. Hormones (thyroid/sex) all dosed by symptoms, and stopped only when my symptoms stopped. I'm a well educated, highly intelligent individual who does NOT have a death wish, and I am brave enough to go against convention and do what's right " for me " . What's right " for me " may not be right for anyone else, but I am not anyone else, I am " me " . I am 55, I look 36, and I feel like I am a teenager once again. I am very fit, and I bet I'm a lot more healthy than many people in this group. If you doubt me, come visit me in person and see for yourself. I have a medical guy that watches over me like a hawk and he is delighted with my health. He calls me " the girl who has to be different " . I also do weight training...wanna arm wrestle? Sam (100 mies north of Seattle) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Wow Sam, I admire you. I'm 50 and look 75. I stopped having papst smears because I have become so self conscious of my excess weight that I put on when i went to generic Synthroid-- I felt like if my physician couldn't get my thyroid right, why should I trust him in other areas. Then I found the natural thyroid group and was inspired to request Armour. It's getting better slowly but surely. I pray it continues. > > Ok, boys...sooooo, you'd like to see me lower my Armour to what, 3 > gains and watch me go into myxedema coma? Perhaps switch me to a > large dose of synthroid and risk me going back into multi organ > failure, or at the least become bald again, and crippled, obese, with > severe bone loss? AGAIN? I've been there and it ain't pretty. > > Maybe y'all would take me off BHRT and put me on premarin so I get to > enjoy blasting headaches and nasty breast lumps, AGAIN? Oh and have > me go off ibuprofen so I am either in agony AGAIN, or get to become > addicted to opiates for pain (those are the ONLY other thing that > works for me)? So much for quality of life, eh? > > I suppose if I lied and told you I was on 2-3 grains Armour, 150mcg > iodine or NO iodine, you'd send me congrats on my success with > health. > > I really think you guys are too fixated on the amounts rather than > the results. My saliva hormone levels are beautiful. My (other than > hormones) bloods are awesome. My cholesterol is fabulous. BP just > about perfect. yadda yadda yadda... > > ALL I did was give my body that which it needed. Hormones > (thyroid/sex) all dosed by symptoms, and stopped only when my > symptoms stopped. I'm a well educated, highly intelligent individual > who does NOT have a death wish, and I am brave enough to go against > convention and do what's right " for me " . What's right " for me " may > not be right for anyone else, but I am not anyone else, I am " me " . > > I am 55, I look 36, and I feel like I am a teenager once again. I am > very fit, and I bet I'm a lot more healthy than many people in this > group. If you doubt me, come visit me in person and see for yourself. > I have a medical guy that watches over me like a hawk and he is > delighted with my health. He calls me " the girl who has to be > different " . > > I also do weight training...wanna arm wrestle? > > Sam > (100 mies north of Seattle) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hi, Sam. If anything I've said has come across as trying to tell you what you should do [like that has any possibility of working!] then please let me correct that misimpression right now. I'm glad you're doing well and especially that you're feeling great. I do admit that I worry when I see people operating outside of reasonably safe guide lines. I'm afraid that something like liver failure could result from taking very large quantities of medications; and liver failure [at least sometimes] doesn't show up at all until one day it fails. I guess I'm so conscious of this because it happened to my wife's father. The curious thing with him is that we could never find anything that would normally be suspect in causing his liver failure. You're comfortable with a somewhat elevated level of risk, as your bike indicates. That bothers me too; as I've ridden bikes and I know car drivers can kill you. So be careful out there... The one thing that I really let bother me is when someone operates outside well defined safe guide lines and then recommends the same thing to others, apparently in total disregard to that person's skill level and tolerance for safety. Such a person might well be harmed. I haven't seen you do anything like that. Best, > > Re: Natural > <hypothyroidism/message/29548;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZ2lpNmt\ 1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjk1NDgEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4Mzk3MjI5NA--> > > > > Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@... > <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Natural> > stealthwind <stealthwind> > > > Sun Jul 8, 2007 9:17 pm (PST) > > Ok, boys...sooooo, you'd like to see me lower my Armour to what, 3 > gains and watch me go into myxedema coma? Perhaps switch me to a > large dose of synthroid and risk me going back into multi organ > failure, or at the least become bald again, and crippled, obese, with > severe bone loss? AGAIN? I've been there and it ain't pretty. > > Maybe y'all would take me off BHRT and put me on premarin so I get to > enjoy blasting headaches and nasty breast lumps, AGAIN? Oh and have > me go off ibuprofen so I am either in agony AGAIN, or get to become > addicted to opiates for pain (those are the ONLY other thing that > works for me)? So much for quality of life, eh? > > I suppose if I lied and told you I was on 2-3 grains Armour, 150mcg > iodine or NO iodine, you'd send me congrats on my success with > health. > > I really think you guys are too fixated on the amounts rather than > the results. My saliva hormone levels are beautiful. My (other than > hormones) bloods are awesome. My cholesterol is fabulous. BP just > about perfect. yadda yadda yadda... > > ALL I did was give my body that which it needed. Hormones > (thyroid/sex) all dosed by symptoms, and stopped only when my > symptoms stopped. I'm a well educated, highly intelligent individual > who does NOT have a death wish, and I am brave enough to go against > convention and do what's right " for me " . What's right " for me " may > not be right for anyone else, but I am not anyone else, I am " me " . > > I am 55, I look 36, and I feel like I am a teenager once again. I am > very fit, and I bet I'm a lot more healthy than many people in this > group. If you doubt me, come visit me in person and see for yourself. > I have a medical guy that watches over me like a hawk and he is > delighted with my health. He calls me " the girl who has to be > different " . > > I also do weight training...wanna arm wrestle? > > Sam > (100 mies north of Seattle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Thank you, . I open my front door and walk outside I take the risk of a tree falling on me and squishing me. I ride my motorcycle like everyone is out to kill me. My " pipes " are loud so other drivers can hear me. I also took the Rider Safety Course and always wear protective gear, and I do not speed or ride like a jerk. I gotta set a good example for all those Harley riders out there. <grin> I've never caused an accident in either my car or on my motorcycle. And actually the first time I've ever gotten a ticket was for going 6 miles over the speed limit and that was last year on July 2nd at 6:45 in the morning after some toad rear ended me on the freeway and I hit the gas to get away. I've been driving since I was 16, and I'm now 55. Oh no, I sound so tame. EEK! Anyway, med-wise, I went the mainstream route and it didn't work, so what choice did I have? You know? Dosing by symptoms isn't a new concept...I just went " old school " , and it worked. YeeHaw... By the way, I absolutely HATE taking pills, YUCK! Sam :-D > > Hi, Sam. If anything I've said has come across as trying to tell you > what you should do [like that has any possibility of working!] then > please let me correct that misimpression right now. I'm glad you're > doing well and especially that you're feeling great. > > I do admit that I worry when I see people operating outside of > reasonably safe guide lines. I'm afraid that something like liver > failure could result from taking very large quantities of medications; > and liver failure [at least sometimes] doesn't show up at all until one > day it fails. I guess I'm so conscious of this because it happened to > my wife's father. The curious thing with him is that we could never > find anything that would normally be suspect in causing his liver failure. > > You're comfortable with a somewhat elevated level of risk, as your bike > indicates. That bothers me too; as I've ridden bikes and I know car > drivers can kill you. So be careful out there... > > The one thing that I really let bother me is when someone operates > outside well defined safe guide lines and then recommends the same thing > to others, apparently in total disregard to that person's skill level > and tolerance for safety. Such a person might well be harmed. I > haven't seen you do anything like that. > > Best, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hi Sam, I have been following your posts about your thyroid adventures, back injury, HRT, etc. Entertaining stuff! But seriously, my wife is going to be 47 this year, and her hormones are starting to change. Could you touch a little more on how you came to use what treatments you are using for HRT? Thanks, Neil _____ From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Sam Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:07 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Natural Thank you, . I open my front door and walk outside I take the risk of a tree falling on me and squishing me. I ride my motorcycle like everyone is out to kill me. My " pipes " are loud so other drivers can hear me. I also took the Rider Safety Course and always wear protective gear, and I do not speed or ride like a jerk. I gotta set a good example for all those Harley riders out there. <grin> I've never caused an accident in either my car or on my motorcycle. And actually the first time I've ever gotten a ticket was for going 6 miles over the speed limit and that was last year on July 2nd at 6:45 in the morning after some toad rear ended me on the freeway and I hit the gas to get away. I've been driving since I was 16, and I'm now 55. Oh no, I sound so tame. EEK! Anyway, med-wise, I went the mainstream route and it didn't work, so what choice did I have? You know? Dosing by symptoms isn't a new concept...I just went " old school " , and it worked. YeeHaw... By the way, I absolutely HATE taking pills, YUCK! Sam :-D > > Hi, Sam. If anything I've said has come across as trying to tell you > what you should do [like that has any possibility of working!] then > please let me correct that misimpression right now. I'm glad you're > doing well and especially that you're feeling great. > > I do admit that I worry when I see people operating outside of > reasonably safe guide lines. I'm afraid that something like liver > failure could result from taking very large quantities of medications; > and liver failure [at least sometimes] doesn't show up at all until one > day it fails. I guess I'm so conscious of this because it happened to > my wife's father. The curious thing with him is that we could never > find anything that would normally be suspect in causing his liver failure. > > You're comfortable with a somewhat elevated level of risk, as your bike > indicates. That bothers me too; as I've ridden bikes and I know car > drivers can kill you. So be careful out there... > > The one thing that I really let bother me is when someone operates > outside well defined safe guide lines and then recommends the same thing > to others, apparently in total disregard to that person's skill level > and tolerance for safety. Such a person might well be harmed. I > haven't seen you do anything like that. > > Best, > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/889 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 8:00 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/889 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 8:00 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 yes I do remember that. I was reading/thinking she is going to say she was at a stop light in her car meanwhile I am having a helluva time with hormones. I think the iodine is allowing me to decrease the hormones but I don't quite know what I'm doing. No I am not going to do some stupid test. I am having a merc Rx day Gracia The order in which I added replacement was first estradiol then progesterone, and finally testosterone. All bioidentical natural transdermals - no synthtics and none orally ingested estradiol because the body converst that to the other 2 hormones " as needed " , so no need to replace the other 2 estrogens). I remember quite vividly when my libido finally came back after all those years without one. I was at a stop light, near the corner of Walmart and whatever street I was on, when BLAMMMMMMO, I wanted a man, really bad and RIGHT NOW! AAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! And I still had more grocery shopping to do... Gracia, do you remember when I wrote about that on the other list? WHOA NELLIE!!!!! <giggle> Recent Activity a.. 8New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Yes, I recall when I was feeling I needed to reduce my BHRT. What symptoms are you having? I might recognize something. Smetimes it helps to have a 3rd eye, you know? Sam > > > yes I do remember that. I was reading/thinking she is going to say she was at a stop light in her car > meanwhile I am having a helluva time with hormones. I think the iodine is allowing me to decrease the hormones but I don't quite know what I'm doing. No I am not going to do some stupid test. > I am having a merc Rx day > Gracia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 oh yes a third eye perspective is good. I am not sure I can describe it! I remember reading on iodine group that iodine sensitizes hormone receptors and women who were on high doses of hormones could use less. I am feeling like suddenly I am taking too many hormones but I am not sure what to decrease. I think I will just stop everything (???), try just DHEA and a little progesterone (???). Meanwhile I am supposed to take the Fung Wha chinese express bus to NYC on friday the 13th (I have heard it catches on fire sometimes--chinese fire drill?) my stomach is bloated (too much something) and what am I going to wear? I spent a lot of $$ on cat food yesterday, came home and the cat food was nowhere to be found, not in the car. Then I found a dead cat outside killed by neighbor dog. I still have more inside. my face feels weird. wah wah wah. Gracia Yes, I recall when I was feeling I needed to reduce my BHRT. What symptoms are you having? I might recognize something. Smetimes it helps to have a 3rd eye, you know? Sam > > > yes I do remember that. I was reading/thinking she is going to say she was at a stop light in her car > meanwhile I am having a helluva time with hormones. I think the iodine is allowing me to decrease the hormones but I don't quite know what I'm doing. No I am not going to do some stupid test. > I am having a merc Rx day > Gracia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Tut! Tut! It's not like you to get your neurons crossed Chuck! By the way, it sounds very painful lol!!! Cheers, Val Re: Re: Natural Gracia, You wrote: > ... THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSE OF ARMOUR IS 3--5 GRAINS > PER DAY. It is not a huge dose at all, it's what works.... Your argument is with Forest Pharmaceuticals, the people that sell Armour. They say the maximum dose is 3 grains, and that any more than that indicates pathology. I thought you said you ate whatever you wanted with your Armour, and that you routinely had more than coffee. If you don't, that rules out that part of my speculation. Sorry about my vegan comment earlier about feedlots. That was the result of a discussion on another list. My neurons got crossed. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Yes, from what I understand, and have experienced, iodine seems to help us use our hormones more efficiently. Here's what I experience on too much: Estradiol - I get more roundy and fuller, like I've gained weight even tho I haven't gained weight. I get weepy and b!tchy. Progesterone - itch like I have hives everywhere and feel creepy/crappy/ew-y. Testosterone - zits, extra chin hairs. Low P w/normal E/T = breasts sore. Low E w/normal P/T = emotional, hot flashes from heck, dry up everywhere, stress incontinence. Low Te w/normal P/E = weak, sapped, tapped out, low libido If I'm low in 2 at the same time, I get symptoms of too much of the one that's normal....I know it's weird. It's sometimes a juggling act. BUT BUT BUT, the first thing I had to reduce on iodine was progesterone. Then the E, however I needed to increase Te. Where I'm at now is 1/2 the E, twice the Te, and 1/4 the P. But all these were gradually changed, listening to " my " symptoms. ??? Sam > > > oh yes a third eye perspective is good. I am not sure I can describe it! I remember reading on iodine group that iodine sensitizes hormone receptors and women who were on high doses of hormones could use less. I am feeling like suddenly I am taking too many hormones but I am not sure what to decrease. I think I will just stop everything (???), try just DHEA and a little progesterone (???). Meanwhile I am supposed to take the Fung Wha chinese express bus to NYC on friday the 13th (I have heard it catches on fire sometimes--chinese fire drill?) my stomach is bloated (too much something) and what am I going to wear? I spent a lot of $$ on cat food yesterday, came home and the cat food was nowhere to be found, not in the car. Then I found a dead cat outside killed by neighbor dog. I still have more inside. > my face feels weird. wah wah wah. > Gracia > > > Yes, I recall when I was feeling I needed to reduce my BHRT. > What symptoms are you having? I might recognize something. Smetimes it > helps to have a 3rd eye, you know? > > Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 pmsl!!! x Sam <k9gang@...> wrote: Oh heck, I can give the piggy a thyroidectomy and then roast the rest of him over an open fire. I grew up on a farm... I still like pork chops. I like my steak as rare as it's legal to eat and not be considered animal abuse. PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals...haha I LOVE raw oysters and can't get enough of 'em. Let's see, wasn't this about the word " natural " ? Ok, Chuck, since I almost died on synthroid, I am obviously VERY biased against it...(but I defend your right to use it). Based on my horrendous experience with it, I think it's crap and is only good as sling shot ammo. If it comes to a point where I have to " grow my own " Armour, I'm gonna have a whole farm full of thyroidless little piggies...unless I have a really big BBQ and invite all my friends... Sam :-D [snip] > > Yes, semantics. You can't capture a wild Armour, either. Armour is > " made " from the scraps left by meat packers from hogs raised in > commercial feed lots. Have you ever visited one of those? It's almost > enough to make you a vegan. > > They have to separate the active ingredients from the pulverized gland > and mix them back into the preparation to insure batch to batch > consistency. Then they add preservatives to keep it from degrading. > That's about as natural as a Twinkie. > > But, again, the real issue is whether you get the right mix of metabolic > products by eating T4 or eating T4 with little T3, T2 and other > metabolic products already there. One of the original arguments against > Armour, was that it effectively bypassed the body's regulatory > mechanisms that determine how much T3, etc. is needed. There was a real > fear that the mix in Armour might produce too much T3. > > We now know that fear was unfounded, but there is still no reason to > think that Armour is optimal for anyone, let alone everyone. Obviously, > it is closer to optimal than T4 alone for many people, but that does not > mean it is optimal. You seem to be assuming that an animal product will > automatically be optimal, while the synthetic can't be, which is a non > sequitur. The optimal mix will vary between people, and it has nothing > to do with pigs. > > The T4 is the same molecule, whether it came from a pig or a test tube. > Nature can't distinguish between them. > > Chuck > --------------------------------- is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 On 2010-06-07 5:30 PM, Judi Wallace wrote: > I found none that were able to back their claims with certifiable > research....research that showed demonstrated gains in IGF-1 levels > after using their products. Did you ever come across/try SomaLife gHP? Duncan Crow is a distributor, and I trust his judgment that it is one of the only products that really does work. http://members.shaw.ca/Somalife-gHP/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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