PAID TROLLS--Re: What really happens with MMS in the body--

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom,

You are right I never directed my comments at you or anyone specifically. I only outlined the strategy of paid trolls and everyone here seems to know exactly who this shoe fits, even if they don’t like the necessary conclusion.

Tom if you have not learned yet that all science today, and especially medicine, is ruled by money and not the truth, then there is little I can do for you. Consult with any honest researcher you wish, they all tell the same story, money controls the outcome. If you want to be supportive in alternative medicine, then the first thing you must do is WAKE UP, pull your head out and start thinking for yourself. If you let ‘science’ experts tell you what is true, then you’ll be another sheep lead to the slaughter and paying them dearly for the privilege.

Here is what this groups’ homepage says, first sentence, “This group is established for the purpose of discussing and sharing our experiences with the Miracle Mineral Supplement.” And later in regard to topics, “We need a group specifically for how to use MMS and discuss symptoms and treatments. There are alot of sick people who don’t have the energy or time to peruse through 25 messages to find 1.” Tom this group is supposed to be about EXPERIENCES and SYMPTOMS AND TREATMENTS, not about scientific theory or industry standards you love to discuss.

Moreover Tom let’s be honest, your focus on ‘science’ and industry standards to discredit Jim has effectively halted honest, open discussion of experiences with MMS. People are intimidated by you and your science and they do not feel a supportive atmosphere to share their experiences. Maybe this is intentional on your part, maybe not. To me it is clear, you are operating as one smooth paid professional with a hidden and disruptive agenda. Your two long posts against Jim gave you away. It is crystal clear you are not coming at this from the personal experiences the group is supposed to be about, instead you rely on the falsehoods of science.

If anyone else is sick of the pharma thugs and their intimidation and wants to discuss experiences in a supportive atmosphere, I did just start my own group. It is not showing up in searches yet but later you can search for mms or humble and it will come up. My name is on the home page. I had never intended to start my own group on this, I was hoping the moderators would ban the paid pros so things could be more supportive.

I am grateful to Daddybob and for allowing my posts, and holding to their commitment to openness with integrity. I realize my posts have not been about MMS experiences either, but this was an extraordinary situation. I apologize for the disruption it has caused, I do pray that the truth will shine forth and the lies will be exposed.

Harrah

michaelharrah@...

[ ] PAID TROLLS--Re: What really happens with MMS in the body--

Hello ,I don't know if your comments were addressed to me, but will assume that they were.You will notice that I direct my comments to a specific person, usually in response to a question that has been raised. This group may have 1500 people listed as belonging to it, but in the last month there have only been less than a hundred that have been active. A hundred people makes a decent sized classroom, but doesn't go much further than that.This comment by you is very interesting:"I am a lawyer by training and the way I look at it, a man like Jim Humble who has dedicated his life to humanitarian efforts is one of the most credible sources of info you will ever find."I disagree with you. Intentions are important, but just because your intentions are good does not mean that you can brush science aside. If you provide a person of good intentions with proper science, they can do much more than someone that has good intentions and faulty science.Dr. Hesselink is not following Jim Humbles protocol "exactly." Being a medical doctor he is aware of oxidative stress and has altered the amounts and frequency of use to minimize oxidative stress. He is setting up clinical trials to see the effect of these chemicals on malaria. Since the costs of setting up and running a trial like this are prohibitive in the US, he is doing it where the costs and restrictions are less intrusive. He is actually done with the first round of the trials, and reports that the results look promising. This is a far cry from the 100% cure rate that Jim Humble claims.In an effort to verify Jim Humbles claims, efforts to contact everyone listed in his book were made. No one contacted had ever heard of Jim Humble, MMS, or any "miracle" cure for malaria. I happen to know missionaries and physicians that volunteer in Africa. I put the word out to keep an ear out for this "miracle" cure for malaria. Not only have they not heard of anything, but the malaria problem seems to be getting worse.Now just because I am unable to verify Jim Humbles claims in Africa doesn't mean that he wasn't there. It just means that it is extremely difficult to find anyone who knows anything about his efforts. It seems that more people in the northern latitudes are aware of what is going on in Africa than the people that actually live there.Exploring the use of the MMS protocol closer to home, I see some people reporting a benefit, and a whole lot of others that move on to something else. That suggests that it is not immediately 100% effective as Jim Humble originally claimed. Jim Humble finally got out into doing some field tests and has not acknowledged that some illnesses take longer, and MMS does not work for all illness.My passion is science. What I think is "criminal" is telling people that something is a 100% cure for every disease, and then not offering any scientific proof that it works. Well, if it is good enough perhaps less science is needed, but still the science should offer support for the treatment.Browsing the information on MMS I find Jim Humble saying that MMS is 100% effective against everything (including aging allowing for a delay in death) and then he goes on to say that if you don't experience a relief of symptoms you aren't taking enough, or you need to add something else, like MMS2, to the mix. The people following the MMS protocol seem to fall into two camps. Everyone initially experiences an improvement, but that doesn't seem to last. One camp involves those who are self diagnosed. They seem to have a greater percentage of improvement, but I don't think they are up to 30%. The other group is clinically diagnosed, and they report very few successes. In one case that I am aware of, 25 people had terminal cancers and were trying a combined oral and topical approach using MMS. A year later only 5 were still living, and they had changed to something else and were no longer using MMS. If we understood how these chemicals worked inside the body, we may have an ideal of why this happened.Outside the body, chlorine dioxide is extremely effective. If you follow the directions of use it is 100% effective. However, if you don't follow the directions its effectiveness rapidly drops off. Under some conditions, it is not effective at all. The role of science is to figure out what is going on and to determine the best and most effective use. Here is a question to ponder... If you had a friend that had an illness and you told them about MMS and Jim Humbles claim of 100% effectiveness against all disease and they took it and it didn't help, how would that make you feel? Would it have been beneficial to boost their hope for a short time only to have it destroyed in the end?I noticed that you are offering third hand evidence of the intentions of the pharmaceutical industry. I might remind you that for every story about "Big Pharma" there are many more stories of corruption amongst lawyers... [smile]Tom> > > >> > > > Tom...> > > > Thank you for your infinite patience regarding all these questions about MMS. Would you comment on the following?> > > >> > > > My understanding is the chlorine dioxide generated in activated MMS is probably consumed by the time the solution reaches the stomach so there is no reason to activate the sodium chlorite unless using it as a mouthwash or perhaps in something like a bath.> > > >> > > > What's really happening with MMS? Is sodium chlorite or chlorous acid or something else somehow entering the bloodstream and generating chlorine dioxide whenever it comes into contact with something acidic? I think MMS has helped me and I know it has helped my pets. I'd like to understand the mechanism of what is actually happening. I'm concerned about problems within the body such as oxidation and free radicals.> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I, for one, greatly appreciate Toms posts and commentary.

My personall BS filter works very well, thank you very much... don't

need a white night.

The rest of the world is out there waiting to be saved...so knock

yourself out...

Chuck

*Why does your OB-GYN leave the room when you get undressed if they

are going to look up there anyway?

On 6/26/2010 6:00:26 PM, Harrah (michaelharrah@...) wrote:

>Hello Tom,

>

>

>

>You are right I never directed my comments at you or anyone specifically. I

only outlined the strategy of paid trolls and everyone here seems to know

exactly who this shoe fits, even if they don't like the necessary conclusion.

>

>

>

>Tom if you have not learned yet that all science today, and especially

medicine, is ruled by money and not the truth, then there is little I can do for

you. Consult with any honest researcher you wish, they all tell the same story,

money controls the outcome. If you want to be supportive in alternative

medicine, then the first thing you must do is WAKE UP, pull your head out and

start thinking for yourself. If you let 'science' experts tell you what is

true, then you'll be another sheep lead to the slaughter and paying them dearly

for the privilege.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, we ARE in interesting times, aren't we? The light is being shown in places that haven't seen any for a loooonnnnggg time! The frequencies flooding the planet are forcing so many changes, whether we like them or run kicking and screaming. I embrace this group for the sharing, even if that means agreeing to disagree. And that's important, because how else are we going to solve/resolve so many issues that are being thrown at us? Our support for one another is a gift we give to ourselves.

Thank you,

Bev

[ ] PAID TROLLS--Re: What really happens with MMS in the body--

The strategy that has made the pharmaceutical industry one of the wealthiest and most powerful on Earth is finally starting to betray it. Beginning in just a few weeks, and continuing over the next several years, some of the biggest-selling and most profitable drugs in history will lose their patent protection. …The real problem is that the industry's scientists have hit a dry spell. They are not discovering enough new drugs to replace the aging standbys. Last year, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved just 19 new medicines, according to preliminary data, the fewest since 1983. Lost in all the hand-wringing on Wall Street is a recognition of how the industry got itself into this fix in the first place. For 25 years, the drug industry has imitated the basic business model of Hollywood. Pharmaceutical executives, like movie moguls, have focused on creating blockbusters. …The strategy had a flaw that executives have long ignored: It required extraordinary amounts of promotion at the expense of scientific creativity. To make the strategy work, the drug industry put its marketers in charge; scientists were given a back seat. Is it any wonder that executives at many companies have watched their pipelines of new drugs slow to a trickle?via LA TimesThe article goes on to detail depraved and doomed business model of the Big Pharma execs, who the author notes are now much more likely to be former marketing gurus than M.D.s. Their "blockbuster" objective has not only diminished the role of scientists (and science!) within the companies, it's pushed out the vision of developing drugs for truly life-threatening medical conditions (as opposed to common "symptoms") in this country and abroad, such as malaria, which the article notes, "kills a child every 30 seconds."An article in The New Yorker last week highlighted the growth of "medical philanthropies" that devote their dollars to the development of treatments for medical conditions the pharmaceutical industry sees no financial motivation to invest in. The foundation leader profiled was none other than a former Big Pharma exec who set up her own medical philanthropy after developing myeloma, a form of cancer with relatively few treatment options and a grim prognosis. Is it too much to ask for these corporations to cure real diseases?It's no surprise to us that Big Pharma is headed for a big fall. The faster the better, we say. Their marketing ploys, which have preyed upon the fears and lack of medical knowledge (Do we all need to go to medical school now to protect ourselves?) in the general public are more than a greedy sham; they're a crime. These companies don't answer for the deaths associated with premature distribution and advertising of drugs, like Vioxx, that haven't been thoroughly tested for longer term safety issues across a wide range of people. They don't answer for the debilitating side effects of their happy commercial jingle drugs, side effects that many patients will live with for the rest of their lives. Come in with slightly "elevated" cholesterol levels and a couple years later (and many dollars poorer) be left with debilitating muscle pain. And those pesky little lawsuits? With multi-billion dollar profits every year, the payouts are momentary inconveniences, simple drops in the bucket.For now, however, Big Pharma will continue its "blockbuster model." As the article noted, Eli Lilly is now beginning the marketing initiative for its newly approved daily version of Cialis. And millions of Americans (in this case, men) will ask their doctor about it at their next appointments. Clearly, Big Pharma is going to suck this model dry, trodding along, eyeing the public in typical ravenous fashion. Follow the Pied Piper, ladies and gents.http://www.marksdailyapple.com/big-pharma-downfall/http://www.marksdailyapple.com/big-pharma-marketing/--- In , "healinghope" <mfrreman@...> wrote:>> Tom Third hand evidence? I never see any links or facts with your babble, agree I am sticking with Humble. "Big Pharma" requires lawyers, lots of them:)> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Tom...> > > > > > Thank you for your infinite patience regarding all these questions about MMS. Would you comment on the following?> > > > > >> > > > > > My understanding is the chlorine dioxide generated in activated MMS is probably consumed by the time the solution reaches the stomach so there is no reason to activate the sodium chlorite unless using it as a mouthwash or perhaps in something like a bath.> > > > > >> > > > > > What's really happening with MMS? Is sodium chlorite or chlorous acid or something else somehow entering the bloodstream and generating chlorine dioxide whenever it comes into contact with something acidic? I think MMS has helped me and I know it has helped my pets. I'd like to understand the mechanism of what is actually happening. I'm concerned about problems within the body such as oxidation and free radicals.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Well, how rude, as my little niece use to say!

Yes, please do go off and start your own list. Save my delete button a work-out.

-------Original Message-------

Tom if you have not learned yet that all science today, and especially medicine, is ruled by money and not the truth, then there is little I can do for you. Consult with any honest researcher you wish, they all tell the same story, money controls the outcome. If you want to be supportive in alternative medicine, then the first thing you must do is WAKE UP, pull your head out and start thinking for yourself. If you let ‘science’ experts tell you what is true, then you’ll be another sheep lead to the slaughter and paying them dearly for the privilege.

[Guest guest]

On 2010-06-26 5:39 PM, healinghope wrote:

> Tom Third hand evidence? I never see any links or facts with your babble,

agree I am sticking with Humble. " Big Pharma " requires lawyers, lots of them:)

What's the matter with you people? Tom isn't supporting big pharma, and

anyone who thinks he is is isn't reading what he is actually saying, or

are just being a head-in-the-sand blind follower of Jim's writings and

attacking anyone who says *anything* contrary, and ignoring the *fact*

that *all* of Jim's writings are based solely on opinion and

observation, with absolutely no real science behind his recommendations

about solution strength, dosage, frequency, etc...

I for one am glad Tom is here...

[Guest guest]

Hello Healinghope,

Your forgot to point out this one...

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1347549

or this one...

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1553981

Tom

--- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...>

wrote:

>

> I can choose to follow humble if I think his studies are more sound. Tom is

not just here he is on dozens of health groups if they even whisper mms.

For a first responder and scientist Tom has lots of time with his laptop.

> http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1375814

>