Guest guest Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hello Tom"Another option is to apply some solution on the skin above the area where the lung tumor is. Mix up your MMS dose and add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to it. This will neutralize the PH of the solution so you don't irritate the skin. Soak a paper towel in the solution and apply it to the skin above the tumor area. Let it air dry, then repeat one more time. "Just curious...When you say mix up your MMS dose, do you mean activate it? If activated (by standard protocol - wait 3 minutes) and chlorine dioxide is released, will the baking soda affect the mix? How? Again, if the mix is activated, will you add the baking soda after the activation or before?thanksFrom: silverfox_science <poast@...>Subject: [ ] Lung Tumor Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 2:24 AM Hello Sofia, Yes it is possible to put sodium chlorite in water and sip on it throughout the day. I would suggest adding it to a liter water bottle filled with water. Yes the stomach acid will activate it. Yes it is possible to inhale chlorine dioxide. However, you have to pay close attention to the concentration. If the concentration is too high, you will damage your throat and lungs. Without test equipment the best way to determine the concentration to use is to mix up a solution and put it in a large bowl. Set the bowl in a room with you. If you can detect the chlorine dioxide odor, the concentration is too high. Have someone else go outside for awhile and clear their nose. They can then come into the room and tell you if they can detect the chlorine dioxide odor. When they no longer detect the odor, the concentration should be in the safe range. It is not safe to use with an inhaler, but chicken and duck farmers report that their birds recover from respiratory illnesses when they fog the coop with sodium chlorite that is activated with water. You could probably set up a humidifier in a room and try that. Once again, if you detect the sodium chlorite odor, the concentration is too strong and you need to air the room out. A starting place would be to take a liter of water and add 2 ml of the 22.4% sodium chlorite (MMS) to it. 2 ml is a little under 1/2 teaspoon. Use this water in the humidifier for an hour a day and point the humidifier away from you while it is running. Another option is to apply some solution on the skin above the area where the lung tumor is. Mix up your MMS dose and add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to it. This will neutralize the PH of the solution so you don't irritate the skin. Soak a paper towel in the solution and apply it to the skin above the tumor area. Let it air dry, then repeat one more time. Tom > > Hi Tom! Hello Everybody! > > I wonder if you or anyone els can answear my two Q? > Is it possible to put the amount of unactivated MMSdrops you requiere during a > day (10 hour protocol, the 28% solution) in just ordinary tapwater and sip it > during the day? Does the stomacheacid activate it? > > It is possible to inhale activated MMS with an inhaler, to attac a lungtumor? > > Kind regards, Sofia. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Thank´s Tom, you´r a "rock". (a swedish say).Sofia.From: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Thu, July 29, 2010 1:24:31 AMSubject: [ ] Lung Tumor Hello Sofia, Yes it is possible to put sodium chlorite in water and sip on it throughout the day. I would suggest adding it to a liter water bottle filled with water. Yes the stomach acid will activate it. Yes it is possible to inhale chlorine dioxide. However, you have to pay close attention to the concentration. If the concentration is too high, you will damage your throat and lungs. Without test equipment the best way to determine the concentration to use is to mix up a solution and put it in a large bowl. Set the bowl in a room with you. If you can detect the chlorine dioxide odor, the concentration is too high. Have someone else go outside for awhile and clear their nose. They can then come into the room and tell you if they can detect the chlorine dioxide odor. When they no longer detect the odor, the concentration should be in the safe range. It is not safe to use with an inhaler, but chicken and duck farmers report that their birds recover from respiratory illnesses when they fog the coop with sodium chlorite that is activated with water. You could probably set up a humidifier in a room and try that. Once again, if you detect the sodium chlorite odor, the concentration is too strong and you need to air the room out. A starting place would be to take a liter of water and add 2 ml of the 22.4% sodium chlorite (MMS) to it. 2 ml is a little under 1/2 teaspoon. Use this water in the humidifier for an hour a day and point the humidifier away from you while it is running. Another option is to apply some solution on the skin above the area where the lung tumor is. Mix up your MMS dose and add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to it. This will neutralize the PH of the solution so you don't irritate the skin. Soak a paper towel in the solution and apply it to the skin above the tumor area. Let it air dry, then repeat one more time. Tom > > Hi Tom! Hello Everybody! > > I wonder if you or anyone els can answear my two Q? > Is it possible to put the amount of unactivated MMSdrops you requiere during a > day (10 hour protocol, the 28% solution) in just ordinary tapwater and sip it > during the day? Does the stomacheacid activate it? > > It is possible to inhale activated MMS with an inhaler, to attac a lungtumor? > > Kind regards, Sofia. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hello Dacian, The MMS protocol is flawed, but it does produce some free chlorine dioxide. A better way to use sodium chlorite to generate chlorine dioxide to penetrate the skin is to use HCl as the acid for activation. However, when using HCl fumes become a concern. With a respiratory system that is already compromised I thought it would be better to start off slow and work up from there. After activation you end up with a solution that has a low PH. Applying this to the skin will irritate it, so the baking soda is added to neutralize the PH. The baking soda has no effect on the free chlorine dioxide, but it will slow down the release of the available chlorine dioxide. Since we are mostly concerned with the free chlorine dioxide with topical applications, there is no effect. To review, after activation you end up with an acid mixture. Before putting this on your skin, adjust the PH toward neutral. Tom > > Hello Tom > > " Another option is to apply some solution on the skin above the area > where the lung tumor is. Mix up your MMS dose and add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda > to it. This will neutralize the PH of the solution so you don't > irritate the skin. Soak a paper towel in the solution and apply it to > the skin above the tumor area. Let it air dry, then repeat one more > time. " > > Just curious... > > When you say mix up your MMS dose, do you mean activate it? If activated (by standard protocol - wait 3 minutes) and chlorine dioxide is released, will the baking soda affect the mix? How? Again, if the mix is activated, will you add the baking soda after the activation or before? > > thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Tom, as I am a newbie, could you qualify your statement 'the MMS protocol is flawed' please? In what way is it flawed. Thanks. dee On 29 Jul 2010, at 17:12, silverfox_science wrote: > > Hello Dacian, > > The MMS protocol is flawed, but it does produce some free chlorine dioxide. A better way to use sodium chlorite to generate chlorine dioxide to penetrate the skin is to use HCl as the acid for activation. However, when using HCl fumes become a concern. With a respiratory system that is already compromised I thought it would be better to start off slow and work up from there. > > After activation you end up with a solution that has a low PH. Applying this to the skin will irritate it, so the baking soda is added to neutralize the PH. > > The baking soda has no effect on the free chlorine dioxide, but it will slow down the release of the available chlorine dioxide. Since we are mostly concerned with the free chlorine dioxide with topical applications, there is no effect. > > To review, after activation you end up with an acid mixture. Before putting this on your skin, adjust the PH toward neutral. > > Tom > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thanks TomI don't want to pollute the thread here as you talk about a serious stuff, lung tumour, but can you (anyone else?) point towards a simple protocol for topical use of MMS (against dandruff or acne for example)? Did anyone experience with such stuff? I'm curious whether it works.What I understand from below is you can apply activated MMS (release chlorine dioxide) on skin with some baking soda in there to balance the PH of the mix; it's just that I wonder about quantities and frequency. If I use a spray for instance, is there any danger for the eyes?thanks in advance.From: silverfox_science <poast@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Lung Tumor Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:12 PM Hello Dacian, The MMS protocol is flawed, but it does produce some free chlorine dioxide. A better way to use sodium chlorite to generate chlorine dioxide to penetrate the skin is to use HCl as the acid for activation. However, when using HCl fumes become a concern. With a respiratory system that is already compromised I thought it would be better to start off slow and work up from there. After activation you end up with a solution that has a low PH. Applying this to the skin will irritate it, so the baking soda is added to neutralize the PH. The baking soda has no effect on the free chlorine dioxide, but it will slow down the release of the available chlorine dioxide. Since we are mostly concerned with the free chlorine dioxide with topical applications, there is no effect. To review, after activation you end up with an acid mixture. Before putting this on your skin, adjust the PH toward neutral. Tom > > Hello Tom > > "Another option is to apply some solution on the skin above the area > where the lung tumor is. Mix up your MMS dose and add 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda > to it. This will neutralize the PH of the solution so you don't > irritate the skin. Soak a paper towel in the solution and apply it to > the skin above the tumor area. Let it air dry, then repeat one more > time. " > > Just curious... > > When you say mix up your MMS dose, do you mean activate it? If activated (by standard protocol - wait 3 minutes) and chlorine dioxide is released, will the baking soda affect the mix? How? Again, if the mix is activated, will you add the baking soda after the activation or before? > > thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hello Dacian, Unfortunately, there hasn't been enough testing to come up with an answer to your question. I use the " sanitizing spray " successfully, but others in our group find it irritates the skin even after PH adjustment. Others have found a solution activated with water works much better, but it takes longer to achieve the results. I always suggest avoiding eye contact and avoiding chlorine dioxide fumes. If you would like to do some testing for yourself, you can start at the low end of the scale and simply put 5 ml of 5% sodium chlorite in 500 ml of water. Spray it on the area after washing and let it air dry, and do this a couple of times a day. Keep a journal to record any changes. If there are no changes, it may be that oxidation is not the correct solution for this problem. If there are changes but the problem doesn't go away, you may have to adjust the strength of the solution. There are some general rules to follow... First you have to determine that the pathogen you are going after is responsive to oxidation. Next you have to clean the area so that the pathogen can not hide behind dirt and debris in the area. Next you have to find a way to bring the oxidant into contact with the pathogen. Next you have to find the concentration and contact time needed to kill the pathogen. Finally you need to be able to do all of this without adverse effects or with minimal adverse effects. Usually the most challenging of these is the delivery system. Tom > > Thanks Tom > > I don't want to pollute the thread here as you talk about a serious stuff, lung tumour, but can you (anyone else?) point towards a simple protocol for topical use of MMS (against dandruff or acne for example)? Did anyone experience with such stuff? I'm curious whether it works. > > What I understand from below is you can apply activated MMS (release chlorine dioxide) on skin with some baking soda in there to balance the PH of the mix; it's just that I wonder about quantities and frequency. If I use a spray for instance, is there any danger for the eyes? > > thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hello Dee, The flaws have to do with the claims Jim Humbles built the MMS protocol on... He thinks he is using a solution that only has 1 - 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in it. Actually the concentrations are much higher than that. Drinking high concentrations of chemicals can result in poisoning effects like diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting. He thinks that chlorine dioxide can exist inside the body. Actual testing has shown that it only lasts for seconds to a few minutes. He thinks the proper activation using citric acid is 5:1 using 10% and 1:1 using 50% and allowing the activation to continue for 3 minutes. The people using this product in industry have run extensive testing on this and they use 1:1 activating with 10% citric acid and 1:5 using 50% citric acid (that is 1 part 50% citric acid to 5 parts sodium chlorite). The most effective activation time is 10 minutes. I ran some rough tests on this and came up with the industrial activation having about 30% more oxidation potential than the MMS activation. He thinks that chlorine dioxide quickly breaks down to chloride in the body, and is quickly passed. Researchers studying chlorine dioxide for water purification have found that chlorine dioxide almost immediately breaks down to chlorite and chlorite has a half life of over 40 hours (in animals). He claims that the amount of water added has no effect on the solution. You use the same dose in the bath tub that you use to drink. Actually the concentration of the chemical in the water is what counts. That is measured in parts per million. To have an effective concentration in a large amount of water, you have to add more chemicals. He claims that MMS = chlorine dioxide. Actually MMS = acidified sodium chlorite, something much different. He claims that MMS is safe because chlorine dioxide is used to treat water. These are two very different technologies. Chlorine dioxide has been well studied and tested, including testing on humans. Acidified sodium chlorite has not been well tested nor has it been tested on humans. ASC is used in food processing and keeps dead carcasses from rotting. Chlorine dioxide is used to disinfect water for consumption. The list goes on and on, but the point is that developing a protocol based upon flawed assumptions and no testing results in a flawed protocol. Keep in mind that in spite of the flaws, some people are reporting success with the MMS protocol. Although, almost all of those successes have involved a modification of the protocol, and the number of successes (outside of Africa) are much lower than Jim Humbles claim of around 95% on every illness. I think that in order to explore a protocol you need to understand the chemistry behind it. Once that is understood, testing can be done to explore the best way to use the chemicals. Jim Humble claims that testing involves millions of dollars and too much of his time. Others are simply doing the testing, not spending exorbitant amounts of time or money, and discovering the flaws in the MMS protocol and Jim Humbles claims. Tom --- In , Dorothy Fitzpatrick <dee@...> wrote: > > Hi Tom, as I am a newbie, could you qualify your statement 'the MMS protocol is flawed' please? In what way is it flawed. Thanks. dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hi Tom, thanks for replying. It is a bit disconcerting to me though because Jim Humble is the reason I am trying MMS. I understood that he had had massive success with it with even things like cancer. I am using it to cure herpes zoster (shingles) and my dog for perianal fistulas. Am I wasting my time - or even worse, could I be doing harm? Just a thought--why are you on the list if your opinion of MMS is low? Just curious. dee On 30/07/2010 18:03, " silverfox_science " <poast@...> wrote: > > Hello Dee, > > The flaws have to do with the claims Jim Humbles built the MMS protocol on... > > He thinks he is using a solution that only has 1 - 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in > it. Actually the concentrations are much higher than that. Drinking high > concentrations of chemicals can result in poisoning effects like diarrhea, > nausea, and vomiting. > > He thinks that chlorine dioxide can exist inside the body. Actual testing has > shown that it only lasts for seconds to a few minutes. > > He thinks the proper activation using citric acid is 5:1 using 10% and 1:1 > using 50% and allowing the activation to continue for 3 minutes. The people > using this product in industry have run extensive testing on this and they use > 1:1 activating with 10% citric acid and 1:5 using 50% citric acid (that is 1 > part 50% citric acid to 5 parts sodium chlorite). The most effective > activation time is 10 minutes. I ran some rough tests on this and came up > with the industrial activation having about 30% more oxidation potential than > the MMS activation. > > He thinks that chlorine dioxide quickly breaks down to chloride in the body, > and is quickly passed. Researchers studying chlorine dioxide for water > purification have found that chlorine dioxide almost immediately breaks down > to chlorite and chlorite has a half life of over 40 hours (in animals). > > He claims that the amount of water added has no effect on the solution. You > use the same dose in the bath tub that you use to drink. Actually the > concentration of the chemical in the water is what counts. That is measured > in parts per million. To have an effective concentration in a large amount of > water, you have to add more chemicals. > > He claims that MMS = chlorine dioxide. Actually MMS = acidified sodium > chlorite, something much different. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 On 2010-07-30 1:44 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick <dee@...> wrote: > Hi Tom, thanks for replying. It is a bit disconcerting to me though because > Jim Humble is the reason I am trying MMS. I understood that he had had > massive success with it with even things like cancer. I am using it to cure > herpes zoster (shingles) and my dog for perianal fistulas. Am I wasting my > time - or even worse, could I be doing harm? Just a thought--why are you on > the list if your opinion of MMS is low? Just curious. dee You misunderstood Dee... Tom doesn't have a low opinion of MMS, he disagrees with the *concentration* that Jim recommends using. tom recommends using just a 5% solution, while the solution Jim uses is 22.5% (much stronger, and Tom feels dangerous). Tom believes that the 5% solution is just as effective, but much safer to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 So what you are saying Tom is that we humans shouldn't be using this in the manner that it has been outlined for us to use? Vicky [ ] Re: Lung Tumor Hello Dee,The flaws have to do with the claims Jim Humbles built the MMS protocol on...He thinks he is using a solution that only has 1 - 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in it. Actually the concentrations are much higher than that. Drinking high concentrations of chemicals can result in poisoning effects like diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting.He thinks that chlorine dioxide can exist inside the body. Actual testing has shown that it only lasts for seconds to a few minutes.He thinks the proper activation using citric acid is 5:1 using 10% and 1:1 using 50% and allowing the activation to continue for 3 minutes. The people using this product in industry have run extensive testing on this and they use 1:1 activating with 10% citric acid and 1:5 using 50% citric acid (that is 1 part 50% citric acid to 5 parts sodium chlorite). The most effective activation time is 10 minutes. I ran some rough tests on this and came up with the industrial activation having about 30% more oxidation potential than the MMS activation.He thinks that chlorine dioxide quickly breaks down to chloride in the body, and is quickly passed. Researchers studying chlorine dioxide for water purification have found that chlorine dioxide almost immediately breaks down to chlorite and chlorite has a half life of over 40 hours (in animals).He claims that the amount of water added has no effect on the solution. You use the same dose in the bath tub that you use to drink. Actually the concentration of the chemical in the water is what counts. That is measured in parts per million. To have an effective concentration in a large amount of water, you have to add more chemicals.He claims that MMS = chlorine dioxide. Actually MMS = acidified sodium chlorite, something much different.He claims that MMS is safe because chlorine dioxide is used to treat water. These are two very different technologies. Chlorine dioxide has been well studied and tested, including testing on humans. Acidified sodium chlorite has not been well tested nor has it been tested on humans. ASC is used in food processing and keeps dead carcasses from rotting. Chlorine dioxide is used to disinfect water for consumption.The list goes on and on, but the point is that developing a protocol based upon flawed assumptions and no testing results in a flawed protocol.Keep in mind that in spite of the flaws, some people are reporting success with the MMS protocol. Although, almost all of those successes have involved a modification of the protocol, and the number of successes (outside of Africa) are much lower than Jim Humbles claim of around 95% on every illness. I think that in order to explore a protocol you need to understand the chemistry behind it. Once that is understood, testing can be done to explore the best way to use the chemicals. Jim Humble claims that testing involves millions of dollars and too much of his time. Others are simply doing the testing, not spending exorbitant amounts of time or money, and discovering the flaws in the MMS protocol and Jim Humbles claims.Tom>> Hi Tom, as I am a newbie, could you qualify your statement 'the MMS protocol is flawed' please? In what way is it flawed. Thanks. dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 How would I judge this? Would I just put in less drops and more citric acid, or leave it longer? Or put in more water? I find all this rather confusing I'm afraid, but thanks for reply. dee On 30/07/2010 18:52, " Tanstaafl " <tanstaafl@...> wrote: > On 2010-07-30 1:44 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick <dee@...> wrote: >> Hi Tom, thanks for replying. It is a bit disconcerting to me though because >> Jim Humble is the reason I am trying MMS. I understood that he had had >> massive success with it with even things like cancer. I am using it to cure >> herpes zoster (shingles) and my dog for perianal fistulas. Am I wasting my >> time - or even worse, could I be doing harm? Just a thought--why are you on >> the list if your opinion of MMS is low? Just curious. dee > > You misunderstood Dee... > > Tom doesn't have a low opinion of MMS, he disagrees with the > *concentration* that Jim recommends using. > > tom recommends using just a 5% solution, while the solution Jim uses is > 22.5% (much stronger, and Tom feels dangerous). > > Tom believes that the 5% solution is just as effective, but much safer > to handle. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 On 2010-07-30 2:17 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick <dee@...> wrote: > How would I judge this? Would I just put in less drops and more citric > acid, or leave it longer? Or put in more water? I find all this rather > confusing I'm afraid, but thanks for reply. dee It has been covered in detail many times in the past couple of months. I don't have Tom's full instructions at my fingertips, but if you are accessing these messages via the forum, then you can peruse the last few months of messages and learn all you need to know. Here is one set of instructions from Tom I found after a quick search: " If you are starting with the 22.4% solution you would put 22.3 ml (this is very close to 1 tablespoon + 1 teaspoon + 1/2 teaspoon) in a container and add 77.7 ml of water. This will give you a total of 100 ml of 5% sodium chlorite. " Then, the recommendation is to activate this (1 drop to 1 drop ratio) with a 10% citric acid solution for TEN minutes (as opposed to Jim's recommendation of 3 minutes). But honestly, as long as you are careful about following the documented instructions, using the original formula won't kill you (safer than most pharmaceutical drugs), and probably won't even be uncomfortable - in fact, the discomfort (nausea) is what you go by to determine how many drops to take. The bottom line though is we all have to make these decisions for ourselves (as to which method/process is best). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 thanks for this, but when you are new to something, it takes a while to assimilate all information, especially when there is conflicting information to ingest. It was the same when I started making my own EIS but the difference here is that it could be potentially harmful if I get it wrong. I feel it is better to get answers to specific questions as they arise, because I get brain fog if I have to trawl through hundreds of posts to find what I want--especially as my specific problem most probably hasn't arisen before. dee On 30 Jul 2010, at 19:37, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 2010-07-30 2:17 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick <dee@...> wrote: >> How would I judge this? Would I just put in less drops and more citric >> acid, or leave it longer? Or put in more water? I find all this rather >> confusing I'm afraid, but thanks for reply. dee > > It has been covered in detail many times in the past couple of months. I > don't have Tom's full instructions at my fingertips, but if you are > accessing these messages via the forum, then you can peruse > the last few months of messages and learn all you need to know. > > Here is one set of instructions from Tom I found after a quick search: > > " If you are starting with the 22.4% solution you would put 22.3 ml (this > is very close to 1 tablespoon + 1 teaspoon + 1/2 teaspoon) in a > container and add 77.7 ml of water. This will give you a total of 100 ml > of 5% sodium chlorite. " > > Then, the recommendation is to activate this (1 drop to 1 drop ratio) > with a 10% citric acid solution for TEN minutes (as opposed to Jim's > recommendation of 3 minutes). > > But honestly, as long as you are careful about following the documented > instructions, using the original formula won't kill you (safer than most > pharmaceutical drugs), and probably won't even be uncomfortable - in > fact, the discomfort (nausea) is what you go by to determine how many > drops to take. > > The bottom line though is we all have to make these decisions for > ourselves (as to which method/process is best). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hello Dee, The danger when using any oxidizer is oxidative stress. It appears that the initial damage from chlorite shows up and damage to the blood. If you do blood work to check specifically for oxidative stress you should be able to avoid this issue. You ask " Am I wasting my time...? " That is a hard question to answer... Let me put it this way. Jim Humble claims that most disease can be eliminated in a couple of days to a couple of weeks following the MMS protocol. How long have you and your dog been following the MMS protocol, and has all the disease been eliminated? Sodium chlorite is a wonderful chemical. I am an advocate for both chlorine dioxide and chlorous acid solutions and would like people to be able to benefit from their use. While I do have a low opinion of the MMS protocol, I have a very high regard for sodium chlorite. I promote using chlorine dioxide to purify wilderness water, but this has nothing to do with the MMS protocol. I promote using acidified sodium chlorite to prevent pathogens from forming on food. This is closer to MMS, but still vastly different. If everyone in the world drank water and ate food that was free from pathogens, that would result in a giant step toward health. Sodium chlorite, along with the proper instructions on how to use it, is a chemical that could do that. Tom > > > > > Hello Dee, > > > > The flaws have to do with the claims Jim Humbles built the MMS protocol on... > > > > He thinks he is using a solution that only has 1 - 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in > > it. Actually the concentrations are much higher than that. Drinking high > > concentrations of chemicals can result in poisoning effects like diarrhea, > > nausea, and vomiting. > > > > He thinks that chlorine dioxide can exist inside the body. Actual testing has > > shown that it only lasts for seconds to a few minutes. > > > > He thinks the proper activation using citric acid is 5:1 using 10% and 1:1 > > using 50% and allowing the activation to continue for 3 minutes. The people > > using this product in industry have run extensive testing on this and they use > > 1:1 activating with 10% citric acid and 1:5 using 50% citric acid (that is 1 > > part 50% citric acid to 5 parts sodium chlorite). The most effective > > activation time is 10 minutes. I ran some rough tests on this and came up > > with the industrial activation having about 30% more oxidation potential than > > the MMS activation. > > > > He thinks that chlorine dioxide quickly breaks down to chloride in the body, > > and is quickly passed. Researchers studying chlorine dioxide for water > > purification have found that chlorine dioxide almost immediately breaks down > > to chlorite and chlorite has a half life of over 40 hours (in animals). > > > > He claims that the amount of water added has no effect on the solution. You > > use the same dose in the bath tub that you use to drink. Actually the > > concentration of the chemical in the water is what counts. That is measured > > in parts per million. To have an effective concentration in a large amount of > > water, you have to add more chemicals. > > > > He claims that MMS = chlorine dioxide. Actually MMS = acidified sodium > > chlorite, something much different. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hello Vicky, What I am saying is that ingesting chlorous acid (using the MMS protocol) has not been studied in humans. Chlorine dioxide has been studied at the concentrations used for water purification, but the MMS protocol involves drinking chlorous acid at concentrations much higher than the concentrations of chlorine dioxide used for purifying water. No one has any idea of what the intermediate or long term effects of taking high concentrations of these chemicals are. If suddenly, 10 years down the road, everyone who followed the MMS protocol develops throat cancer, we then may have some information on its safety. Please note this is just an illustrative example. I have no indication that following the MMS protocol causes throat cancer, but am still cautious because oxidative stress is often linked to various illnesses. If you want to explore the concentrations used in water purification mix up 1 drop of MMS along with 1 drop of 10% citric acid, let it activate for 10 minutes, then add it to 2 gallons of water. This is close to what is used for water purification, and is a concentration that will have no ill effects. This is also a concentration that Jim Humble refers to several times in his book as being the target concentration he is looking for. People who live in areas where chlorine dioxide is used for disinfecting the drinking water drink this water all the time. On a side note, I have not heard of masses going to these cities to partake of the " healing " waters... I am saying that I won't follow the MMS protocol because it is based upon flawed ideas. However, it is possible that there is a way to use these chemicals to improve health. Further testing is needed to explore this. Tom > > So what you are saying Tom is that we humans shouldn't be using this in the manner that it has been outlined for us to use? > > Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hi Tom I followed your earlier discussions with Jim and would like to mention a possible solution to the benefits felt by people, including myself, from using MMS. Could the chlorine dioxide be absorbed by the hemoglobin forming chloroxy-hemoglobin? This is the route carbon monoxide takes, arriving at most of the cells in the body inside 10 minutes.DaveFrom: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Fri, 30 July, 2010 10:03:32 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Lung Tumor Hello Dee, The flaws have to do with the claims Jim Humbles built the MMS protocol on... He thinks he is using a solution that only has 1 - 5 PPM chlorine dioxide in it. Actually the concentrations are much higher than that. Drinking high concentrations of chemicals can result in poisoning effects like diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting. He thinks that chlorine dioxide can exist inside the body. Actual testing has shown that it only lasts for seconds to a few minutes. He thinks the proper activation using citric acid is 5:1 using 10% and 1:1 using 50% and allowing the activation to continue for 3 minutes. The people using this product in industry have run extensive testing on this and they use 1:1 activating with 10% citric acid and 1:5 using 50% citric acid (that is 1 part 50% citric acid to 5 parts sodium chlorite). The most effective activation time is 10 minutes. I ran some rough tests on this and came up with the industrial activation having about 30% more oxidation potential than the MMS activation. He thinks that chlorine dioxide quickly breaks down to chloride in the body, and is quickly passed. Researchers studying chlorine dioxide for water purification have found that chlorine dioxide almost immediately breaks down to chlorite and chlorite has a half life of over 40 hours (in animals). He claims that the amount of water added has no effect on the solution. You use the same dose in the bath tub that you use to drink. Actually the concentration of the chemical in the water is what counts. That is measured in parts per million. To have an effective concentration in a large amount of water, you have to add more chemicals. He claims that MMS = chlorine dioxide. Actually MMS = acidified sodium chlorite, something much different. He claims that MMS is safe because chlorine dioxide is used to treat water. These are two very different technologies. Chlorine dioxide has been well studied and tested, including testing on humans. Acidified sodium chlorite has not been well tested nor has it been tested on humans. ASC is used in food processing and keeps dead carcasses from rotting. Chlorine dioxide is used to disinfect water for consumption. The list goes on and on, but the point is that developing a protocol based upon flawed assumptions and no testing results in a flawed protocol. Keep in mind that in spite of the flaws, some people are reporting success with the MMS protocol. Although, almost all of those successes have involved a modification of the protocol, and the number of successes (outside of Africa) are much lower than Jim Humbles claim of around 95% on every illness. I think that in order to explore a protocol you need to understand the chemistry behind it. Once that is understood, testing can be done to explore the best way to use the chemicals. Jim Humble claims that testing involves millions of dollars and too much of his time. Others are simply doing the testing, not spending exorbitant amounts of time or money, and discovering the flaws in the MMS protocol and Jim Humbles claims. Tom > > Hi Tom, as I am a newbie, could you qualify your statement 'the MMS protocol is flawed' please? In what way is it flawed. Thanks. dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Thanks Tom. Vicky [ ] Re: Lung Tumor Hello Vicky,What I am saying is that ingesting chlorous acid (using the MMS protocol) has not been studied in humans. Chlorine dioxide has been studied at the concentrations used for water purification, but the MMS protocol involves drinking chlorous acid at concentrations much higher than the concentrations of chlorine dioxide used for purifying water.No one has any idea of what the intermediate or long term effects of taking high concentrations of these chemicals are. If suddenly, 10 years down the road, everyone who followed the MMS protocol develops throat cancer, we then may have some information on its safety. Please note this is just an illustrative example. I have no indication that following the MMS protocol causes throat cancer, but am still cautious because oxidative stress is often linked to various illnesses.If you want to explore the concentrations used in water purification mix up 1 drop of MMS along with 1 drop of 10% citric acid, let it activate for 10 minutes, then add it to 2 gallons of water. This is close to what is used for water purification, and is a concentration that will have no ill effects. This is also a concentration that Jim Humble refers to several times in his book as being the target concentration he is looking for. People who live in areas where chlorine dioxide is used for disinfecting the drinking water drink this water all the time. On a side note, I have not heard of masses going to these cities to partake of the "healing" waters...I am saying that I won't follow the MMS protocol because it is based upon flawed ideas. However, it is possible that there is a way to use these chemicals to improve health. Further testing is needed to explore this.Tom>> So what you are saying Tom is that we humans shouldn't be using this in the manner that it has been outlined for us to use?> > Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 thanks for this Tom. I have only been using the protocol for a couple of days now and am building him up gradually. At the moment I am using the TH method of 1MMsx5CA and am giving five activated drops to half a glass of water - spread over the day. I am looking into making the spray with DMSO as well. dee On 31 Jul 2010, at 01:43, silverfox_science wrote: > > Hello Dee, > > The danger when using any oxidizer is oxidative stress. It appears that the initial damage from chlorite shows up and damage to the blood. If you do blood work to check specifically for oxidative stress you should be able to avoid this issue. > > You ask " Am I wasting my time...? " > > That is a hard question to answer... > > Let me put it this way. Jim Humble claims that most disease can be eliminated in a couple of days to a couple of weeks following the MMS protocol. How long have you and your dog been following the MMS protocol, and has all the disease been eliminated? > > Sodium chlorite is a wonderful chemical. I am an advocate for both chlorine dioxide and chlorous acid solutions and would like people to be able to benefit from their use. While I do have a low opinion of the MMS protocol, I have a very high regard for sodium chlorite. > > I promote using chlorine dioxide to purify wilderness water, but this has nothing to do with the MMS protocol. I promote using acidified sodium chlorite to prevent pathogens from forming on food. This is closer to MMS, but still vastly different. > > If everyone in the world drank water and ate food that was free from pathogens, that would result in a giant step toward health. Sodium chlorite, along with the proper instructions on how to use it, is a chemical that could do that. > > Tom > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hello Dave, I don't think that is what's happening, but it is worth exploring. In the studies looking at using chlorine dioxide to purify water the scientists discovered that chlorine dioxide doesn't exist in bodies beyond seconds or minutes. It quickly breaks down to chlorite. Chlorite has a half life of around 40 hours, and it is a strong oxidizer. There is a real possibility that chlorite is the oxidizer that is working in the body. On the other hand..., chlorous acid seems to be absorbed into the blood stream in some manner, and it may be doing the work. We have been looking at how this works, and it doesn't seem to be absorbed by the red blood cells. Our rough way of determining this was to look at blood oxygen levels before, during, and after ingesting these solutions. Jim Humble claims that chlorine dioxide is picked up by the red blood cells. If the red blood cells pick up chlorine dioxide, they won't pick up oxygen, and the blood oxygen level should dip lower. We found that it actually raises a little. All of this is preliminary, and will have to be reviewed by more complete testing, but the initial results are interesting. Tom --- In , Dave <dgs.clear@...> wrote: > > Hi Tom > > I followed your earlier discussions with Jim and would like to mention a > possible solution to the benefits felt by people, including myself, from using > MMS. Could the chlorine dioxide be absorbed by the hemoglobin forming > chloroxy-hemoglobin? This is the route carbon monoxide takes, arriving at most > of the cells in the body inside 10 minutes. > > Dave > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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