mycoplasma

[Guest guest]

Hi Joe

Did you read the info in the link we got last week to the Michigan Law

school site? They had a lot of info on mycoplasma. The worse news was that

mycoplasma likes chocolate!! Really.

It said, Cholesterol and the amino acid arginine, which is commonly found

in chocolate, stimulate growth of mycoplasmas and should be avoided at all

costs.

So, maybe your theory will work AND we get to eat chocolate!!!!

Ute

>Maybe we can lure them out with chocolate?

>

><g>

>

>

>j.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben,

Mycoplasma aren't naturally in the body. As far as I know some people can

harbour

mycoplasma without showing disease symptoms.

However, a large number of people with rheumatic disease have these organisms.

They can enter the body through a leaky bowel wall, through infection in any

part of the body, particularly teeth, throat, implants etc. Surprising how many

people report teeth infections before becoming ill with scleroderma, for

example.

Other organisms play a part also, such as streptococcus, chlamydia, klebsiella

et al. The aim of the antibiotic therapy is to rid the body of infection,

wherever

it may be.

Chris.

>In addition to the AP protocol, we have discussed the mycoplasmas within =

>our family.

>

>Our qustion is: do the mycoplasmas exist in all humans but are kept in a =

> " tolerable " level by the immunedefense, or is it when the mycoplasmas =

>enter the body, the disease starts?

>

>If the later, how and where do the mycoplasmas enter the body?

>

>Healthy wishings

>

>Ben sson

>

>

>------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFA2D0.ADADA980

[Guest guest]

Right on the first count.

It is when the spill over occurs that the disease starts to fire up. If the immune system can't keep it all under control that is when the trouble begins.

DonnaOttawa, CanadaScleroderma, Jan.95, AP Oct.97(My Story) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes )

rheumatic Mycoplasma

Hi Group,

In addition to the AP protocol, we have discussed the mycoplasmas within our family.

Our qustion is: do the mycoplasmas exist in all humans but are kept in a " tolerable " level by the immunedefense, or is it when the mycoplasmas enter the body, the disease starts?

If the later, how and where do the mycoplasmas enter the body?

Healthy wishings

Ben sson

[Guest guest]

Sorry ... small correction on my comment.....right on the first count

with the exception that the arrival of the mycoplasmas are said to be through other infections and illnesses not from birth.

However, there is speculation of passing it around in a family, through childbirth and also from husband to wife and vise versa.

DonnaOttawa, CanadaScleroderma, Jan.95, AP Oct.97(My Story) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes )

rheumatic Mycoplasma

Hi Group,

In addition to the AP protocol, we have discussed the mycoplasmas within our family.

Our qustion is: do the mycoplasmas exist in all humans but are kept in a " tolerable " level by the immunedefense, or is it when the mycoplasmas enter the body, the disease starts?

If the later, how and where do the mycoplasmas enter the body?

Healthy wishings

Ben sson

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben! Geoff Crenshaw here.

Message: 1

Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:39:33 +0200

From: " Ben sson " <benny.eriksson@...>

Subject: Mycoplasma

>> Our qustion is: do the mycoplasmas exist in all humans but are kept

in a " tolerable " level by the immunedefense <<

For the most part, yes - but " contained " vs. " tolerable " although both

would be correct -- perhaps " contained and tolerable " is the most

accurate.

>> or is it when the mycoplasmas enter the body, the disease starts? If

the later, how and where do the mycoplasmas enter the body? <<

More likely a major event compromises or over-taxes the immune system

and during that event the mycoplasmas " escape " from their contained

area. An example of this would be finding M. Pneumonia, commonly found

in the lungs of people who have historically suffered pneumonia, in a

knee.

The precise vectors are unknown and if the theory is correct would be as

varied as the populace itself, i.e., one person may be in an accident

while another suffers the death of a loved one, but both result in

" loosed mycoplasma. "

HTH

Regards,

Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

Why do I have hope?

Because I am under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24 / REV 12:11

ICQ 60333388

[Guest guest]

, you may be interested in reading this article : ) I have some

others filed away also. Liz G.

from:

http://rheumatology.medscape.com/reuters/prof/2001/09/09.07/20010906clin001.

html

Endometriosis May Be an Autoimmune Disease

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Sept 06 - Immunomodulating therapy may be an

alternative to traditional estrogens as a treatment for endometriosis.

Dr. Warren B. Nothnick, of the University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas

City, says that in a review of the literature he found " overwhelming

evidence " of a role for immunologic factors, particularly cytokines, in the

pathophysiology and etiology of endometriosis.

In particular, he says, research results show that levels of tumor necrosis

factor alpha (TNF-alpha) are elevated in patients with endometriosis. Given

the success of TNF-alpha inhibitors in treating other immunologic disorders,

Dr. Nothnick proposes examining these therapies as an option for treating

endometriosis.

Disturbed levels of other cytokines, cell apoptosis, and T- and B-cell

abnormalities have also been observed in patients with endometriosis, he

notes in the August issue of Fertility and Sterility.

" What we as researchers and physicians need to be aware of is that many

factors and pathways can contribute to the growth and progression of

endometriosis and the cytokines may be one commonality among these factors

or pathways, " Dr. Nothnick told Reuters Health.

While for now there is only a small amount of evidence to support an

immunologic approach to treating endometriosis, he believes " we need to

explore all possibilities and take advantage of today's technologies. "

" A treatment that could suppress the disease and its symptoms independently

of compromising a women's reproductive cyclicity would hold great promise, "

he noted.

Fertil Steril 2001;76:223-231.

[Guest guest]

Orin,

That was an excellent and concise summary of mycoplasma and how they

differ from bacteria and viruses. I too have a feeling that

mycoplasma will ultimately be implicated in a wide variety of

diseases, just as the Helicobacter Pylori bacteria was finally shown

to be responsible for most ulcers by Dr.Barry J. Marshall after 100

years of the medical profession erroneously attributing ulcers to

spicy foods, excess stomach acid, alcohol, and stress.

Mycoplasma are ubiquitous and exist in great variety. The CDC calls

mycoplasma the " 'next generation' bacterial pathogens "

(http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol3no1/baseman.htm), and points out

that:

" comparison of animals matched for age, sex, and microbial and

environmental factors indicates that HEREDITY is the most critical

determinant of susceptibility, lesion character, and disease

severity. Susceptibility among animal species and among strains of

the same species differ dramatically "

(http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol4no3/cassell.htm).

I intentionally capitalized the word " heredity " in the previous

quote, because it's quite a coincidence that susceptibility to P and

PA are also inherited. It may turn out to be that the mycoplasma

themselves aren't pathogenic, but that instead it's our own body's

reaction to them that causes problems. Perhaps there's something in

the genome of certain families (those of us with P and PA) that cause

our bodies to be more susceptible to them or to overreact to their

presence.

On the other hand, there are such a wide variety of mycoplasmas, that

each species may be responsible for a particular disease(s) just as

certain types of bacteria cause specific diseases. Immunosciences Lab

says: " By electron microscopy we have been able to show that M.

fermentans can indeed fuse with CD4 (Molt-3) cells and induce

production of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-6 and tumor

necrosis factor alpha "

(http://www.immuno-sci-lab.com/html/mycoplasma.html).

In any case, your mention of comments like " Lowest cholesterol number

I've ever seen " being a commonality among those of us with PA rang a

bell with me. I've heard similar words from every doctor I've ever

been to. The highest my cholesterol has ever been was 180, and I eat

cheeseburgers, bacon, ice cream, and have never done anything

whatsoever to control my cholesterol level - I've never had to worry

about it. One of my doctors said my cholesterol level couldn't be

lower if I were on a macrobiotic diet!

There have been several polls posted on the PA list web page, some of

which were intended to try to identify things we all have in common.

So far, there doesn't seem to be anything in particular that we all

give overwhelmingly similar responses to (blood type, HLA-B27 gene,

root canals, water consumption, etc). I think it would be very

interesting if we all shared something as seemingly benign as low

cholesterol. To that end, I've posted a poll to try to get an

unscientific reading on it. I urge everyone to take a few seconds to

answer the poll titled: What is your Total Cholesterol Level? It's

located at:

/surveys?id=883337

or you can go to the main PA list page at:

/

and click on " Polls " on the left side of the screen.

Thank you,

-- Ron Dotson

> I've been studying psoriasis and all things related to the body

> for years trying to find what the common factor is between all

> of my ailments and those of others similarly afflicted.

> ...

> " Lowest cholesterol number I've ever seen " ,

> ...

> If this line of thinking is on the right track mycoplasma could

> be implicated in a whole myriad of unexplained health problems;

> for example, what happens when little <expletive-deleted>'s with

> a sticky outer surface are pumped through an artery at a time

> when the system is lacking free cholesterol which acts as a

> detergent to fats to move them around the body? How much " fat "

> could a person carry around as result of being highly infected

> with a mycoplasms that have a lipid (fat) outer skin? What

> happens to the blood sugar when the little <expletive-deleted>'s

> hijack the power plant in the cell they have invaded?

>

> I hope I didn't stretch that out too far. I could elaborate much

> more on my understanding maybe 20 more pages ha ha, Orin

[Guest guest]

infantile pica is eating inappropriate foods, right ? Is the theory that this

is related to lack of some basic nutrient in diet or body's inability to

metabolize or what ? Thanks debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed! Geoff here

> Several people have mentioned this. Could I get a explanation of

> Mycoplasma, the test - what is involved? Is it just a blood test?

> If you test positive, what does that mean?

> ed

PCR = Polymerase Chain Reaction. The study involves exploring blood serum

for remnant pieces of DNA. It is akin to finding a needle in Texas, a

haystack would be child's play. Absence of a finding of one or more

mycoplasma does not negate mycoplasma as being suspect in your disease.

Confirmation can aid in fine-tuning which drug(s) to use in allopathic

treatment of the disease, i.e., mycoplasma pneumonia is generally more

susceptible to Doxycycline than to Minocycline. Form the patient's

perspective a PCR test involves only a simple blood draw.

PCR testing can range in price from reasonable ($90 USD) to outrageous

($250+ USD - same test). A recommended laboratory which charges reasonable

prices and has a world-renowned reputation for mycoplasma PCR testing can be

found here: http://www.rheumatic.org/myco.htm. There are other labs as

well, however, distance should not be a criteria as long as overnight or 2nd

day delivery is available between the sending location and the laboratory.

IOW, if you can get it there by 2nd day, it's close enough, which covers

nearly all of N. America. If you are in a rural area outside that delivery

range, you may want to get your blood drawn in a more metropolitan area to

address that issue.

Geoff

soli Deo gloria

http://www.healingyou.org/ NonRx herbals, homeopathics & supplements

http://www.800-800-cruise.com/ Cruises, tours, resorts & luxury trains

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Geoff here.

You wrote:

> would you please let me know where you were tested and if you or your

doctor

> initiated the testing procedure? I live in Canada, and a few years ago I

Dr. Coker-Vann in land. (info at www.rheumatic.org)

I found the information, contacted the lab by phone for specifics, took the

requirements for sera handling to my physician and his phlebotomist took the

draws. I also had a synovial drain included and Dr. Coker-Vann tested both

the blood and synovial fluid at no extra cost. One thing to watch out for:

In my case *a* culprit was identified as m. pneumonia. The numbers were

within " average " range which my Rheumatologist immediately dismissed as

being unimportant. What was important, and what he missed, was that the

numbers were " average " for being " in the lungs. " They should not have been

in the knees nor systemic. That is an important distinction that can lead

to problems.

Geoff

soli Deo gloria

He deprives of intelligence the chiefs of the earth's people...

www.HealingYou.org - Your nonprofit source for remedies and aids in fighting

these diseases, information on weaning from drugs, and nutritional kits for

repairing adrenal damage; 100% volunteer staffed.

(Courtesy of Captain Cook's www.800-800-cruise.com)

J1224

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for some great answers and plenty of information to

look up. In an effort not to be too wordy, I offer the following as

an abbreviated response to the question " What is a mycoplasma. "

Mycoplasmas are the smallest and simplest organism known. They were

discovered over 100 years ago and evolved from bacteria. The " garden

variety " mycoplasma is not usually associated with severe diseases.

However, sometime over the past 30 years, the organism has been

altered to become more lethal. The Mycoplasmas found by the

Nicolson's, in their lab, contain unusual gene sequences that were

probably inserted into the Mycoplasma by a specific laboratory

procedure. This discovery has led them to conclude that the new forms

of mycoplasma were specifically engineered for germ warfare. In it's

laboratory evolution, the Mycoplasmas have became more invasive, more

difficult to find, and capable of causing severe diseases in humans.

Diseases, like Gulf War Illness, CFS, FMS, MCS, Rheumatoid Arthritis,

and AIDS, for instance.

Unlike bacteria, the Mycoplasma has no cell wall. This enables it to

invade tissue cells, incorporating the cell's nutrients, and using

the cell to replicate itself (much like a retrovirus). When the

Mycoplasma breaks out of the cell, it takes a piece of the host cell

membrane with it. When the immune system attacks the Mycoplasma, it

also gets " turned on " to attacking the host cell. In this way, an

autoimmune condition can begin. Autoimmune conditions associated with

Mycoplasmas include arthritis, Fibromyalgia, myositis, thyroid

dysfunction (Hashimoto's or Grave's Diseases), and adrenal

dysfunction, signs and symptoms of Lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, and Lou

Gehrig's Disease.

References and the complete text can be found at:

http://www.shasta.com/cybermom/asimple.htm

I have not yet read the complete text myself...I just found it while

looking for a succinct description of mycolpasma.

Thanks for all your information - it will take me a while to explore

so many suggestions!

Laureen

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

How would one use ozone to deal with the

mycoplasma issue?

Thanks.

>>

I'd use zone over antibiotics. Ozone kills

infection without

necessitating a diagnosis.

Duncan Crow

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

sounds exactly like what we are doing with local infections and

colds. The Apprentice Godzilla would make excellent sense to

research on this, why not give it a try, post results? Good luck to

you.

bG

>

>

> Hi, I am a new member.

> I have a mycoplasma infection. It is no longer systemic, as my CFS

is

> mostly gone after 9 months of antibiotics. It now is concentrated

at

> sinuses, jaw, ears, eyes and skull. It began in the lacrimal duct

of

> the eye and spread around after sinus surgery. Does anyone here

have

> experience with this type of infection. I have been told that the

6

> volt battery device would be a good bet to try. I am not looking

for

> a cure, just something that may compliment other therapy, ie.

> antibiotics, oxygen therapy, vitamins and good diet. This therapy

> really caught my attention because of it's effect on aids. I have

> read that the aids virus is actually mycoplasma inserted into

> boriellos (I think that's correct), so I just wondered if maybe

the

> microvoltage would have an anti-mycoplasmic effect. Any feedback

is

> appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I will. I was wondering, since cloth is not conductive, water

or conductive solution is used. What are others using? Thanks.

> >

> >

> > Hi, I am a new member.

> > I have a mycoplasma infection. It is no longer systemic, as my

CFS

> is

> > mostly gone after 9 months of antibiotics. It now is concentrated

> at

> > sinuses, jaw, ears, eyes and skull. It began in the lacrimal duct

> of

> > the eye and spread around after sinus surgery. Does anyone here

> have

> > experience with this type of infection. I have been told that the

> 6

> > volt battery device would be a good bet to try. I am not looking

> for

> > a cure, just something that may compliment other therapy, ie.

> > antibiotics, oxygen therapy, vitamins and good diet. This therapy

> > really caught my attention because of it's effect on aids. I have

> > read that the aids virus is actually mycoplasma inserted into

> > boriellos (I think that's correct), so I just wondered if maybe

> the

> > microvoltage would have an anti-mycoplasmic effect. Any feedback

> is

> > appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi valerie

Here are the answers to your questions. Most people on the

antibiotic

therapy continue them indefinitely. It would appear that you can

never completely wipe out mycoplasma, and once off the antibiotics

for

a length of time, a substantial number of people start to get their

symptoms back. Certainly not everybody though. In fact, many

people have to

tweak their protocol after about five years, because it does seem

that

if they don't, the antibiotics become less effective. I was tested

for mycoplasma and found to have both fermantans and hominus.

Fermantans is one of the worst ones as it seems to be involved in a

number of autoimmune diseases. No, I never developed any more

candida

symptoms than I ever had. I do take primal defense daily though.

The only side effects I suffered were

herxes, which I also herx to natural antibiotics such as oil of

oregano and olive leaf. Some people herx severely, some not at all

and everywhere in between. I decided after four years to try

without it and see if I regressed. I have been off for about two-

three

months and was doing great. Then last week I noticed some

symptoms have

returned. However, I have also been doing alot of raw dairy and I

may

be suffering a huge herx. It is extremely difficult to tell the

difference between a herx and a flare. I am going to wait it out

awhile longer and see if I can determine if it is a herx or not.

Since I herx to many many things ( I think I have liver detox

issues)

there is a good bet that is what is going on. Yes, my insurance

covered the antibiotics as they do all prescribed meds. I got the

generic and only paid $5 per thirty day supply. If you have more

questions, let me know.

Hugs,kathy

--- In , " vquick04 " <vquick04@c...>

wrote:

>

> Hello Kathy, thank you for the information. I did have a few

> questions. why so long on the antibiotics? were there any side

> affects? did you have out of controll candida for taking

antibiotics

> for so long? were you tested or did the dr. just start you on the

> antibiotics? Did your insurance cover the antibiotics? I have

> already looked at the web site you mentioned and will look into

> calling one of the doctors to discuss treatment. Thanks so much!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lea,

Weren't your implants polyurethane? . . . those were

some of the worst for making women sick!

I've been worried about you being under so much stress

with your brother and your house! . . .

Please be good to yourself! When one gets stressed

their immune system becomes very weak!

Love,

Rogene

[Guest guest]

Dear Kathy,

I am going to my drs on Thursday about my heart racing problems, I am going to ask about antibiotic therapy long term but I am very unsure about how to go about this. I have often read that antibiotics are one of the worst things us silicone women can take, how can that be when some have been on antibiotics for years?

How much should you take in a day, I know I will not be able to be tested for mycoplasma we are way behind over here I bet my dr doesnt even understand it.

Any advise

thanks

Sue

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I have often thought that I may have a mycoplasmic infection; what tests are

done to specifically determine this? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated,

I haven't had alot of luck up here in Minnesota with doctors...

God Bless,

Carol

> >

> > Hello Kathy, thank you for the information. I did have a few

> > questions. why so long on the antibiotics? were there any side

> > affects? did you have out of controll candida for taking

> antibiotics

> > for so long? were you tested or did the dr. just start you on the

> > antibiotics? Did your insurance cover the antibiotics? I have

> > already looked at the web site you mentioned and will look into

> > calling one of the doctors to discuss treatment. Thanks so much!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just sent a link to the group resulting from a web

search for mycoplasma bacteria testing . . . If you

have any problems, please let me know.

Hugs,

Rogene

--- hennywin <hennywin@...> wrote:

>

> Kathy,

>

> I have often thought that I may have a mycoplasmic

> infection; what tests are done to specifically

> determine this? Any help or advice is greatly

> appreciated, I haven't had alot of luck up here in

> Minnesota with doctors...

>

> God Bless,

>

> Carol

>

> > >

> > > Hello Kathy, thank you for the information. I

> did have a few

> > > questions. why so long on the antibiotics? were

> there any side

> > > affects? did you have out of controll candida

> for taking

> > antibiotics

> > > for so long? were you tested or did the dr. just

> start you on the

> > > antibiotics? Did your insurance cover the

> antibiotics? I have

> > > already looked at the web site you mentioned and

> will look into

> > > calling one of the doctors to discuss treatment.

> Thanks so much!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

a . . . I posted a message with a link to a page I

got when searching the web for mycoplasma bacteria

testing .. .

I know that Garth Nicolson can do testing - you have

the blood drawn and send it to him.

Hugs,

Rogene

--- alexa <batchica999@...> wrote:

> Can someone please tell me more about mycoplasma?

> Are some women saying they have a mycoplasma

> infection or mycoplasma bacteria or is it just

> referred to as mycolplasma?Can I go somewhere that

> they can take an x-ray(?) of my chest to see what's

> going on w/o having to go through all the

> doctors/emergency room riga-ma-roll?

>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Anyone on antibiotic therapy MUST be very careful to

follow an excellent diet. To do otherwise can risk

their life.

It's doubtful your doctor will put you on AP therapy

without testing though. The various mycoplasmas

respond to different antibiotics. If you test

positive, they use a relatively small dose several

times a week.

Mycoplasma bacteria invades cells and reproduce. They

are susceptable to antibiotics when they are between

cells. . . If you'll read Garth Nicolson's webpages,

you'll learn a lot more than I can tell you. Perhaps

your doctor will read some of his papers.

Hugs and prayers,

Rogene

[Guest guest]

Lea,

You are, despite being sick, one of the toughest women

I know! . . . You'll do fine. Just walk in there with

your head up and KNOW that you have every right to be

compensated for the misery DOW's toxic bags put you

through.

They are the ones who should be nervous! . . . They

know they've injured not just you, but thousand and

thousands of other women!

Hugs and prayers,

Love,

Rogene

[Guest guest]

I second that! We will be with you in spirit Lea!!

Love,

>

> Lea,

>

> You are, despite being sick, one of the toughest women

> I know! . . . You'll do fine. Just walk in there with

> your head up and KNOW that you have every right to be

> compensated for the misery DOW's toxic bags put you

> through.

>

> They are the ones who should be nervous! . . . They

> know they've injured not just you, but thousand and

> thousands of other women!

>

> Hugs and prayers,

>

> Love,

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

Sue

It can be very hard to get doctors to listen to you if they don't

know what you are talking about or if they have a closed mind. I

don't know if the group on the roadback site maintains lists of

doctors in other countries. You can print off their info on the

roadback site and take it with you. I did that with my doctor here

and he was openminded enough to look at it--but few are. If you

can't get anyone to prescribe the antibiotic protocol, you can still

try using D'lenolate which is a potent form of olive leaf extract.

I had read that some of the doctors here in the US used it to treat

mycoplasma successfully. I hope everything goes well tomorrow.

Hugs, kathy

>

> Dear Kathy,

>

> I am going to my drs on Thursday about my heart racing problems, I

am going

> to ask about antibiotic therapy long term but I am very unsure

about how to go

> about this. I have often read that antibiotics are one of the

worst things

> us silicone women can take, how can that be when some have been

on antibiotics

> for years?

> How much should you take in a day, I know I will not be able to be

tested

> for mycoplasma we are way behind over here I bet my dr doesnt

even understand

> it.

> Any advise

>

> thanks

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

It's my other son who had the mycoplasma (Mr. Kindergarten)... My 5th

grader was treated for high Strep antibodies with ERY-PED in second grade

and had a huge improvement. He's been off of it for several years now... we

still check those strep antibodies every few rounds.

I'm not sure what Dr. G's treatment of choice would be for mycoplasma or

actually what he would do about it if it came back positive/active/whatever.

We get our lab results back next week... if they indicate something going on

with the mycoplasma we'll see what Dr. G says and I'll share what I learn.

Caroline

>

> If there were mycoplasms, wouldn't the antibiotics

> used to treat pandas be hitting that, also? I thought

> I remember, Caroline that your son had pandas, as mine

> does. Barb