west nile virus

[Guest guest]

No controlled study has proven that this virus induces encephalitis

On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 00:31:34 GMT " Katrina Cloud " <katrinaj@...>

writes:

> A concern of mine is that IF there were to be an outbreak of some

> disease, I

> would want myself and my family to be in prime health (diet good,

> strong

> immune system, etc..). If we were to get the immunization for that

> illness,

> would it not weaken our immune system, making us even more

> vulnerable? If we

> were to get our shots at the same time as the illness was " coming

> through " ,

> would that give us enough time for our bodies to build up the

> antibodies

> that the shots are supposed to encourage before being hit with this

> illness?

> Would getting the immunization through our bloodstream make us

> readily

> resistant to an illness that is transmitted through our respiratory

> system?

> This along with the fact that immunizations are ONLY X% effective

> and the

> many reports that I have read over time that show that for many of

> the

> people who did contract an illness during one of these " epidemics " ,

> of those

> who WERE imminuzed, many were sicker, took longer to recover and had

> more

> lasting effects after they did recover. It is a scary thing to have

> to

> consider but I feel confident that if I keep my family healthy (and

> they are

> VERY healthy) most of these dreaded illnesses will be very mild IF

> they

> catch them at all.

> Katrina - CO

>

>

> >From: " Tom and Muckerheide " <tomnrachel@...>

> >Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

> ><Vaccinationsegroups>

> >Subject: RE: Re: west Nile virus

> >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:40:13 -0400

> >

> >I was not refereeing to the pesticides they are spraying for, I

> think we

> >all

> >know those are bad news. All I am saying is in my opinion vaccines

> are nice

> >to have in case I change my mind or an epidemic comes my way and

> the fear

> >of

> >the unknown takes over. Options are a luxury.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Also, the sparying has been killing the mosquito's natural preditors.

On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Aubin Parrish

<aubinparrish@...> writes:

>

> --- beebemcel@... wrote:

> >

> > chris,

> > oh yes, they are certainly still spraying us and it

> > isn't

> > working--funny?!!!!!

>

> Someone sent a link on this list last week to a story

> about a study showing that spraying to try to kill the

> mosquitos only makes the problem worse - it

> temporarily knocks down the population, but the ones

> that are left are resistant to the poisons, and then

> quickly reproduce a new generation of resistant

> mosquitos, upon which the spraying is almost totally

> ineffective, so you end up with even more than before.

> Also, I think it said that the ones left after the

> spraying then have weakened immunity from being

> poisoned, so they're more susceptible to the disease,

> and even if the mosquito population is temporarily

> smaller you could end up with more actual numbers of

> " infected " mosquitos than before (if you buy the virus

> theory, that is).

>

> Aubin

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/00 7:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beebemcel@...

writes:

<< here is no " proof " that ANYONE can show you

that does in fact prove vaccines work, so for that reason, i will not ever

get a vax--regardless of the disease or outcome. JMO

brigit >>

What about the example of the decline in HIB disease as a result of the

vaccine being introduced? Has anyone really looked into this one and what

have you found? It is not really an issue with me that they work or not, but

I was just curious.

I do feel the vaxes work to some degree in most people,but I also feel the

short and long term effects are extremely understated. And should my child be

damaged by a vaccine(or killed) it would seem that the compensation fund is

far from being fair,nonadvaserial(sp),or any bit what they tout it to be.

Sara

[Guest guest]

sara,

the only " proof " that i have ever been shown or seen, in reagrds to the

effectiveness of vaccines is that it appears that they have an impact because

the diseases that they are vaccinating for, generally reduce in numbers of

people getting them when they start to use the innoculation. there is lots

and lots of reasons for the same results. it is always circumstancial

evidence that is used to " prove " that vaxes work--if they truly, truly worked

don't you think that after all this time there would be some real positive

proof, not just correlations in the number so infected peoples? this is how

i feel about it and doubt i will change my mind unless shown some new studies

that can prove it to me. most of the infectious diseases that we innoculate

against would have reduced in numbers even without a vax, jus tdue to

improved sewar systems, running water, refidgeration, less cramped living

conditions, improved sanitation and improved personal hygenie. if you

compare US vaccine and disease rates , historically, with those of countries

that were also improving in these areas but were not mass innoculating, you

will see a general decline in the same diseases at comparable rates to the US

rates--explain that?

brigit

[Guest guest]

I do not believe I am being naïve. According to the news a lot of these

animals were tested an tested positive.

[Guest guest]

<<And should my child be

damaged by a vaccine(or killed) it would seem that the compensation fund is

far from being fair,nonadvaserial(sp),or any bit what they tout it to be.>>

For that matter - who the hell really WANTS to be compensated for a dead child.

There really is no compensation, is there?

S.

nnu29@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/00 7:50:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beebemcel@...

> writes:

>

> << here is no " proof " that ANYONE can show you

> that does in fact prove vaccines work, so for that reason, i will not ever

> get a vax--regardless of the disease or outcome. JMO

> brigit >>

>

> What about the example of the decline in HIB disease as a result of the

> vaccine being introduced? Has anyone really looked into this one and what

> have you found? It is not really an issue with me that they work or not, but

> I was just curious.

>

> I do feel the vaxes work to some degree in most people,but I also feel the

> short and long term effects are extremely understated. And should my child be

> damaged by a vaccine(or killed) it would seem that the compensation fund is

> far from being fair,nonadvaserial(sp),or any bit what they tout it to be.

>

> Sara

>

>

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Having power over yourself is an inoculation

against the power of others.

- J. Ehrlich

The reason doctors are so dangerous is that they believe

in what they're doing.

- S. Mendelsohn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

I didn't say YOU were naive. But to answer: the mere presence of a virus

doesn't prove it is pathogenic, regardless of the known problems and

falacies with the PCR test and electromicrography itself.

gary

On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:17:53 -0400 " Tom and Muckerheide "

<tomnrachel@...> writes:

> I do not believe I am being naïve. According to the news a lot of

> these

> animals were tested an tested positive.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I had this article sent to me about the West Nile Virus that some of you may

find interesting.

Carol

virus or Environment?

Commentator Questions Blame Placed on West Nile Virus

Commentary

By Regush

Aug. 29 — Outbreaks of encephalitis from the " West Nile " virus are not

getting the proper scientific attention. The scope of the research is too

narrow

The potential importance of polluted and unhealthy environments in which

West Nile virus outbreaks often occur is being ignored due to lack of

funding and scientific indifference.

It's noteworthy that West Nile virus is typically described by scientists

as a rare, mild and usually harmless infection in humans, affecting mostly

the elderly. In birds, however, the virus has been highly touted as a

killer.

Like Canaries in a Mine

Traditionally, birds have been viewed as sentinels for toxic environments,

the canary in the mine being the most famous example.

What if some degree of the damage to birds and humans now attributed solely

to the virus is actually triggered by harsh environmental factors that need

to be addressed?

To date, attempts to prevent West Nile outbreaks have often relied on the

spraying of mosquitoes. This is controversial and raises the possibility of

further polluting a toxic environment that is already causing harm and

contributing to the outbreaks.

McLean is one of several federal scientists prominently involved in

West Nile virus studies who understands the importance of also

investigating environmental factors in the emergence of new diseases. For

instance, some studies seem to show that toxic air pollution could

potentially enhance the activity of a virus and make it churn out more

copies of itself.

" Because we don't have the resources, we're missing the opportunity to look

at many different factors that may be going on with West Nile, " he said. As

director of the Wisconsin-based National Wildlife Health Center of the U.S.

Geological Survey, McLean now spends most of his time diagnosing and

studying dead crows and other wildlife that turn up positive for a West

Nile virus infection.

Dr. Ian Lipkin of Columbia University, who has played an important role in

identifying the genetics of the West Nile virus, is an infectious disease

scientist who thinks beyond microbes. He too believes that an understanding

of disease comes from probing the relationship between environmental

factors, including viruses and toxic substances, and the genetic endowment

of individuals.

To Lipkin, it makes perfect sense to want to know more about how, say, " an

unhealthy environment might break down immunity in both birds and humans

and make them more susceptible to viral infection. It's worthy to pursue

this. "

Searching and Tracking

Even so, when all is said and done, both McLean and Lipkin are still

focused on the biology and behavior of the virus. That's where the research

action has been since the outbreaks began in New York City in the summer of

1999.

Much of the public health effort is aimed at tracking and identifying

mosquitoes that transmit the virus, tracking and diagnosing dead birds,

particularly crows, for signs of the virus and monitoring human blood

samples for signs of infection.

Symptoms of human infection are said to include fever, headache, and body

aches. The rare serious cases can involve inflammation of the brain,

causing stupor, tremors, convulsions, paralysis and death.

In 1999, seven people who died and 62 people who became ill turned up

positive for the virus. Last year, there were 21 cases, including two

deaths.

So far this year, at least ten people, including four in Florida, one in

Georgia and five in the New York City area have turned up positive.

Last month, a study published in The Lancet estimated on the basis of

sample blood tests and interviews that 8,200 people in the New York City

area in 1999 came down with asymptomatic West Nile infections and about

1,700 experienced some flu-like symptoms.

Ozone and the Immune System

Valuable clues have not been investigated about the possible role of air

quality in the outbreaks that began in the New York area in 1999. Outbreaks

have since occurred in other regions of the country.

The summer of 1999 in New York City was extremely hot and, according to the

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), the smog was

the worst in more than a decade. Smog includes ozone, which forms in the

air from other toxic substances, including nitrogen oxides and volatile

organic compounds.

It is scientifically established that ozone can affect the body's immune

system so that the ability to fight infection may be impaired. It also can

cause damage to the brain and lungs.

Steady Flow of Dead Crows

As New Yorkers baked in the heat that summer and were exposed to high

levels of ozone, veterinarians and pathologists began to receive calls

about unusual numbers of bird deaths.

In Delmar, near Albany, a veteran wildlife expert at the DEC's wildlife

pathology unit, Ward Stone, began to receive a steady flow of dead crows,

the most he had seen in 30 years.

He figured the heat and the lack of rain had somehow exposed old pesticides

in soil and vegetation. It seemed the birds were being poisoned.

Stone then requested the standard type of toxicology testing. In looking

for pesticide residues, it is routine to check for low levels of the enzyme

cholinesterase. It has become standard practice that even if there are very

little or no pesticide residues found in the birds, if the cholinesterase

levels are low, then it is deemed likely that the death was due to

pesticide poisoning.

On the basis of the tests, he began to theorize that the epidemic of dead

birds was likely due to pesticides.

Stone didn't request tests to determine if bad air quality was playing a

role in the bird deaths even though high ozone levels can also affect

cholinesterase levels.

" We don't order those tests because there are no funds to do that kind of

work, " he said.

In fact, Stone couldn't recall anyone in his line of work doing air

toxicology tests on birds.

When Stone's conclusions about pesticides and dead birds were about ready

to be released in a DEC report, a human mystery disease was given an

identity.

New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani held a press conference on Sept. 3, 1999,

to announce that scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and

Prevention in Atlanta had identified the St. Louis encephalitis (SLE)

virus, which is transmitted by mosquitoes, as the culprit in the

hospitalizations of several elderly patients. They initially had high

fever, headaches and altered mental status and gradually showed signs of

brain inflammation.

Soon helicopters and trucks began spraying areas of New York City with the

highly toxic insecticide, malathion.

With several scientific groups conducting further genetic tests, it was

soon agreed that the culprit was actually West Nile virus and not SLE,

Kunjin virus, which was also a major suspect, is another member of this

family.

Indifference?

But air quality was not deemed to be an important factor for study among

those scientists working on West Nile virus.

This indifference smacked of short-sightedness and arrogance to Jim West, a

researcher who works with NoSpray Coalition, an environmental group that

has been in the forefront of New York area protests against the spraying of

insecticides.

West, 54, is not a scientist. He has music talent in his background and a

solid block of engineering courses. Translation: he is mainly self-taught

when it comes to biology and toxicology.

He decided to begin mapping the relationship between dead crows and ozone

levels (see Web link at right.)

Consulting New York State records and ozone maps from the Environmental

Protection Agency (EPA), he noticed that there was a strong correlation

between areas of high ozone levels and dead birds that turned up positive

for West Nile virus.

West understands that strong correlations do not necessarily mean the

relationship is a causal one. " But this correlation continues to this very

day, " he said, adding that " anyone studying these publicly available maps

and health department documents would have to wonder why the correlations

are so strong and should want to further investigate. "

Environmental Efforts and Ozone

As one of many examples, he points out that the first seven of eight dead

positive crows were found this year in New Jersey's Middlesex county, which

happens to be near oil refineries.

West probed further. He set his research sights on a chemical called MTBE

(methyl tertiary butyl ether) put into so-called reformulated gasoline as

part of a federal effort to make gas burn cleaner.

Some critics believe that MTBE may be even more harmful than ozone.

According to ph, a toxicologist at the University of

Pennsylvania, " symptoms vary widely as MTBE can affect the nervous system,

breathing, the heart and trigger allergies. "

To date, states are at various stages of reconsidering use of the chemical.

A New York State ban on MTBE will go into effect in 2004.

Factoring in Ecological Context

West discovered that those New York City area counties with

MTBE-reformulated gasoline reported that 117 dead crows were positive for

West Nile virus. The other counties without the MTBE only reported 2

positives. The counties by then had tested about 570 dead birds.

Breaking the data down further, he found that in those MTBE-using counties

designated as severe air pollution areas by the EPA, the percentage of

positives of those birds tested was 24 times the number found in moderate-

and less-polluted counties.

" Jim West's got some good ideas, but he's not a scientist, " said Stone, who

has met with West at the state pathology unit in Delmar and finds his

modeling plausible. " Yes, we certainly need to take a look at air

pollution, but I don't think that it has anything to do with West

Nile-related morbidity. "

Technology Linking Dead Birds and West Nile

Ahearn, director of Hunter College's Center for the Analysis and

Research of Spatial Information, offers another perspective. " I think it

is extremely important to factor in air pollution and even MTBE because

they may harm the immune system and make it easier for an infection to take

hold. "

Ahearn and his colleagues run a computer project for the City of New York

that uses a sophisticated formula to chart clusters of dead birds across

the city. Still in its testing phase, it is helping the city to link

non-random dead bird clusters to pools of mosquitoes that show signs of the

West Nile virus and then to possibly predict where human infection has a

high probability of occurring.

" The next phase of the project will be to factor in the ecological context,

things like air quality and weather, " Ahearn said. " I think this is the

only logical way to go. "

Virus Takes the Blame

Guptil of the geographic sciences branch of the U.S. Geological

Survey agrees. He too says that his unit may consider mapping an air

quality layer in their tracking of West Nile events.

" We may find via this tracking that higher ozone levels lead to greater

susceptibility to replicate more virus, " Guptil said.

Maybe so, but is there more to this than meets the eye? Guptil is assuming

that only the virus (whatever the amount of viral replication) leads to

harm, either in crows or humans.

That assumption may turn out to be premature. In a paper published in the

journal Science on Dec. 17, 1999, the authors claimed they had isolated the

West Nile virus. It's since been widely accepted (as Guptil does) that

whenever the " virus " is injected into, say, a crow, and the crow dies, it

means that here is proof positive that the cause of West Nile disease is

solely the virus.

That conclusion suggests to many scientists that you might as well forget

about any environmental factors being necessary in causing West

Nile-associated illness. Some scientists, including Lipkin and McLean,

allow for the possibility that environmental factors might enhance the

opportunities for infection.

Either way, the virus remains the culprit.

Filtering Out the Virus

F. , the director of the Connecticut Agricultural Experiment

station in New Haven and the lead author of the study, explained that his

group ground up mosquitoes and the brains of dead crows and after several

steps eventually filtered out the virus.

He used a filter of 0.22 micrometers because he wanted to " exclude bacteria

and fungi " from the culture.

The purpose of isolating a virus is to ensure that viral particles are pure

and therefore separated from everything else, including possibly harmful

materials from the very cells they infect. That way you are reassured that

further tests may tap the virus as the likely cause of an illness.

But was a filter of 0.22 micrometers small enough, given that a West Nile

viral particle is said to be 0.04 micrometers, about six times smaller than

the filter? In other words, there is enough room for cellular matter to

move through the pores along with the West Nile viral particle. That

cellular matter could incorporate the biochemical products of other toxic

insults, including those from the environment, to the organism.

" Yes, small molecules [from tissue] can pass through, " admitted,

but didn't think this might be a problem of any kind.

" We don't have a purified form of the virus, " said McLean

matter-of-factly. " Cellular material could interact with the virus to

enhance the replication of viral particles. "

What McLean left unsaid was the possibility that the cellular material

itself could be sufficiently toxic to cause damage to tissue, with or

without the virus.

Clearing the Air

The fact is, no one knows. The West Nile virus was never purified. I find

no evidence anywhere in the scientific literature that the rules of virus

purification and isolation were followed thoroughly.

Add to this potentially serious omission the scientific indifference to the

possible role of the environment in what is being called " West Nile "

illness and death.

So what does this all suggest?

A major error in understanding why many birds and some individuals are

becoming ill?

An unnecessary and costly West Nile virus industry, consisting of drug

development, vaccine-making, public health fiefdoms, fights for status and

funding, and so on?

It would help to clarify the situation if we could get some serious air

toxicology research underway. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

Regush produces medical features for ABCNEWS. In his regularly

featured column, he investigates medical trouble spots, heralds innovative

achievements and analyzes health trends.His latest book is The Virus Within.

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[Guest guest]

I read that if you take vitamin b12 supplement then it will produce an aroma

on your body which the mosquitos don`t like.

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[Guest guest]

Diane:

I saw a report on a news program where a volunteer stuck his arm in a tank of

mosquitos after applying varying products -- to see what worked and what

didn't work for repelling mosquitos. Unfortunately, DEET was the only thing

that worked well. Funny the Avon Skin So Soft didn't work, as you have always

heard it does. Just wanted to inform you about this report...

(mom to , age 3-1/2. Currently has polysaccharide antibody def,

previously had transient IgG, IgA, t-cell & other defs)

[Guest guest]

Most people who get it are fine it is the very old folks and babies and

people with extremely weak immune systems who can die. As far as I know you are

right there is no treatment and as far as I know it is only an acute illness;

not a chronic one; meaning it will either kill you quick or you'll be fine; so I

wouldnt imagine your CFS symptoms have anything to do with it.

Joe

[Guest guest]

Hi Gayathri,

I won't ask you who your LLMD is, but what were the symptoms that caused

him/her to test you for West Nile? Or is it just that you weren't

responding well to Lyme treatment?

Did your doctor tell you if any other Lyme patients have been positive?

It's amazing that you were tested, and amazing that you were positive!

I've never heard of anyone with Lyme being tested for West Nile.

Please let us know what kind of test was used, and what happens next.

Sue B.

Upstate New York

> My LLMD tested me for west nile virus last week. Today I got a call from the

> nurse mentioning I tested positive for it and that I need to do a test again

> tomorrow to confirm it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

I did not develop any new symptoms that would have made him test this.

I guess he tested because I did not respond at all to lyme

antibiotics treatment.

I will backchannel you with his name if you would like. He is very

particular that his name is not broadcasted in any of the mailing

list.

This might be false positive too. because i dont know why he wanted

me to come tomorrow to get it retested. Since it does not have any

treatment, I am not very excited about this outcome even if it turns

out to be positive. Probably it might just indicate I have immune

dysfunction that I caught this bug.

will keep you posted.

Thanks,

gayathri.

> Hi Gayathri,

>

> I won't ask you who your LLMD is, but what were the symptoms that

caused

> him/her to test you for West Nile? Or is it just that you weren't

> responding well to Lyme treatment?

>

> Did your doctor tell you if any other Lyme patients have been

positive?

>

> It's amazing that you were tested, and amazing that you were

positive!

> I've never heard of anyone with Lyme being tested for West Nile.

>

> Please let us know what kind of test was used, and what happens

next.

>

> Sue B.

> Upstate New York

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

I went to my LLMD office today. the test for west nile virus was from

quest lab. I was positive on IGG and not on IGM. The IGG titers were

high-1:640. I might have had this from India.

He tested a few of his lyme patients. One of them came out positive

and when they retested, it was found to be false positive.

Anyway, he is sending my blood to MDL lab today to run the complete

west nile virus panel (including teh PCR).

Thanks,

Gayathri.

>

> Did your doctor tell you if any other Lyme patients have been

positive?

>

> It's amazing that you were tested, and amazing that you were

positive!

> I've never heard of anyone with Lyme being tested for West Nile.

>

> Please let us know what kind of test was used, and what happens

next.

>

> Sue B.

> Upstate New York

>

>

> > My LLMD tested me for west nile virus last week. Today I got a

call from the

> > nurse mentioning I tested positive for it and that I need to do a

test again

> > tomorrow to confirm it.

[Guest guest]

I've posted (I think) a couple of times. Mostly I've just been lurking

around wondering if anyone's found a solution to CFIDS. I've tried a

few of the things posted here without much success. I've come to the

conclusion that CFIDS, like AIDS, Alzheimer's, cancer and a whole bunch

of other " diseases " aren't diseases at all, but are the result of over

toxicity probably combined with an inherited weakened immune system.

Those things can be fixed. E-mail me privately if you want me to clue

you in to how that can be done.

The ONLY reason I'm bothering to post this time is the mention of West

Nile virus. This is not a flame at those who've posted about it.

They've been deluded by the media, etc. WNV is a hoax; Sars is a hoax;

HIV/Aids is a hoax. My Lord, 100,000 people per year in the U.S.A.

alone are KILLED by properly prescribed, properly administered

pharmaceuticals. 195,000 people are KILLED by medical error in U.S.

hospitals. TWO people were killed by severly (and stupidly) overdosing

themselves on ephedra. " OH, let's ban that one!, " say the powers that

be. Pharmaceutical corportations and your ever loving CDC and the FDA

have only your interests at heart. Yeah, right!

The people in Africa aren't dying of AIDS. They're dying of polluted

water and starvation. Toxins in the form of drugs are going to help

them die faster.

There's never been a proven link between HIV and AIDS. Dr. Gallo is

full of doo-doo.

I've rambled on long enough. WNV? It's the flu. Some people die; some

don't. The next time you feel the flu or a cold coming on put three to

four drops of hydrogen peroxide in your ear; hold it for ten minutes.

Repeat with the other ear. It works for me. That came from Dr.

Mercola. I don't agree with everything he writes, but that one's a

really good one.

Good night, good luck, God's speed.

[Guest guest]

look into ozone,fcan2 rife, liver g/b flushes and coffee enamas, kidney

cleans,to kill the bact/virus and detox the body, it keeps the organs

clean(just like chancing the oil and filter in your car)

youi can not relie on thr dr. for every thing!

roger

patfromreno@... wrote:

>

> I've posted (I think) a couple of times. Mostly I've just been

> lurking

> around wondering if anyone's found a solution to CFIDS. I've tried a

> few of the things posted here without much success. I've come to the

> conclusion that CFIDS, like AIDS, Alzheimer's, cancer and a whole

> bunch

> of other " diseases " aren't diseases at all, but are the result of over

> toxicity probably combined with an inherited weakened immune system.

> Those things can be fixed. E-mail me privately if you want me to clue

> you in to how that can be done.

>

> The ONLY reason I'm bothering to post this time is the mention of West

> Nile virus. This is not a flame at those who've posted about it.

> They've been deluded by the media, etc. WNV is a hoax; Sars is a

> hoax;

> HIV/Aids is a hoax. My Lord, 100,000 people per year in the U.S.A.

> alone are KILLED by properly prescribed, properly administered

> pharmaceuticals. 195,000 people are KILLED by medical error in U.S.

> hospitals. TWO people were killed by severly (and stupidly)

> overdosing

> themselves on ephedra. " OH, let's ban that one!, " say the powers that

> be. Pharmaceutical corportations and your ever loving CDC and the FDA

> have only your interests at heart. Yeah, right!

>

> The people in Africa aren't dying of AIDS. They're dying of polluted

> water and starvation. Toxins in the form of drugs are going to help

> them die faster.

>

> There's never been a proven link between HIV and AIDS. Dr. Gallo is

> full of doo-doo.

>

> I've rambled on long enough. WNV? It's the flu. Some people die;

> some

> don't. The next time you feel the flu or a cold coming on put three

> to

> four drops of hydrogen peroxide in your ear; hold it for ten minutes.

> Repeat with the other ear. It works for me. That came from Dr.

> Mercola. I don't agree with everything he writes, but that one's a

> really good one.

>

> Good night, good luck, God's speed.

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, voicehu60

I don't have the freqs, but I did find the effective rife freqs. You

will have to convert for . Here is a snip from the rife list below.

<snip>

Message: 4

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 23:42:26 +0200

From: " Jan Stoeten " <jstoeten@...>

Subject: RE: West Nile Virus rife frequencies?

West Nile 1 - 413, 826, 1239, 3303, 465, 841, 8410

West Nile_ 2 - -1385, 1115, 841, 799, 730, 697, 686, 664, 514, 498,

484,

434, 404, 313, 240

All the best,

Jan Stoeten

West Nile Virus

<html><body>

<tt>

Does anyone have a " frequency " for the West Nile Virus? I didn't<BR>

see a listing for it in " The Cure for All Diseases " . If anyone<BR>

in this group has this virus, I would like to communicate with you.<BR>

<BR>

Albert<BR>

tones@...<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<br><br>

<tt>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I already have the Rife frequencies, but that's not exactly

what I asked for. [i appreciate your effort though.] Rife frequencies

often resonate to human immune system proteins, which is why I think

they are effective. The Hulda frequencies usually resonate to

the entire/composite pathogen- per the Synchometer.

Albert

> From: voicehu60 [mailto: voicehu60@y...]

> Dr

> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:44:02 -0000

> Subject: West Nile Virus

>

> <html><body>

>

>

> <tt>

> Does anyone have a " frequency " for the West Nile Virus? I

didn't<BR>

> see a listing for it in " The Cure for All Diseases " . If anyone<BR>

> in this group has this virus, I would like to communicate with

you.<BR>

> <BR>

> Albert<BR>

> tones@c...<BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> </tt>

>

>

> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

>

> <br><br>

> <tt>

>

[Guest guest]

Olga,

The purported " West Nile Virus " is an invention, with bad

motives behind it, just like all other " diseasecausing viruses " .

There are some real viruses, but they are all benign. The

vaccines, purportedly " protecting you " , are dangerous.

As for pesticides on the grass, in the water etc, I don't

really know how dangerous or harmless they are. My

guess would be that you needn't worry about kids

playing outside on account of such things.

Rolf M.

At 21:32 2006-08-12 -0700, you pubrel <pubrel@...>

wrote:

>Do you think West Nile Virus is a real threat?

>

>I'm in California, and they have started fogging my area this summer. It

>has been a terrible summer for us. I can't enjoy watching my kids playing

>outside anymore, because I know there are toxic chemical residues on all

>surfaces they are touching. When they are running on the grass, playing in

>the sand, swimming in the pool etc, my heart is screaming: danger, danger,

>danger! I'm exhausted emotionally.

>Do we even suffer for a good reason? Is West Nile Virus a real danger that

>we need to be protected from, or is someone just making good money selling

>those pesticides that they are dumping on us?

>

>Olga

>

>

[Guest guest]

Check out my blog. I have some information compiled there. We are having an

issue with it as well. Do you know if you can get on a " No Spray " list? I

don't know about California, but in Michigan the communities that spray have to

have an opt out for those who don't want it. When on the list, they won't spray

the house before or after ours, we have also gotten the neighbor two doors down

to get on it, so that gives a bit of extra protection. How do your neighbors

feel about it?

--

Sara

Find out what stinks in Genesee County!

http://geneseecountystinks.blogspot.com

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " pubrel " <pubrel@...>

Do you think West Nile Virus is a real threat?

I'm in California, and they have started fogging my area this summer. It has

been a terrible summer for us. I can't enjoy watching my kids playing outside

anymore, because I know there are toxic chemical residues on all surfaces they

are touching. When they are running on the grass, playing in the sand, swimming

in the pool etc, my heart is screaming: danger, danger, danger! I'm exhausted

emotionally.

Do we even suffer for a good reason? Is West Nile Virus a real danger that we

need to be protected from, or is someone just making good money selling those

pesticides that they are dumping on us?

Olga

[Guest guest]

Olga,

A " dangerous West Nile Virus " certainly does NOT exist.

See two articles by the German virologist Stefan Lanka on this, at:

http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm (in 2001, pointing

out that there are no diseasecausing viruses)

and

http://rolf-martens.com/otherspubs/060301_lanka_no_diseasecausing_viruses.html

(from 01.03.2006, title " Are there and can there be diseasecausing viruses? " ,

explaining some more things concerning this - English translation by me)

As to the pesticides used purportedly to " combat " that non-existent

" virus " , their use " for this " certainly is uncalled-for. What dangers they

may present I don't know.

Rolf M.

At 23:17 2006-09-01 -0700, you pubrel <pubrel@...> wrote:

>Sheri N. and all!

>Can you please shear some links/articles for reading about West Nile virus

>(if you know of any)? My area has been fogged 4 times recently (this is

>new, but on-going) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. My

>feeling is that those pesticides pose more danger than the virus. There is

>a group for residents in my area that Vector (the company performing

>foggings) uses to announce their procedures. I would probably want to post

>some alternative articles there, if I can find any. Can you help me?

>Olga

[Guest guest]

lots and lots of stuff to read - www.beyondpesticides.org and they are

against spraying.

West Nile Virus

Sheri N. and all!

Can you please shear some links/articles for reading about West Nile virus (if

you know of any)? My area has been fogged 4 times recently (this is new, but

on-going) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. My feeling is that

those pesticides pose more danger than the virus. There is a group for

residents in my area that Vector (the company performing foggings) uses to

announce their procedures. I would probably want to post some alternative

articles there, if I can find any. Can you help me?

Olga

[Guest guest]

Check out my blog! It is all about the spraying that is being done in my area.

I have also written an article on there about the dangers of spraying and have

cited many " reputable " studies on the dangers of pesticides. Even the CDC has

links to the dangers of the pesticides used in the spraying. What state are you

in? Quite a few of the states (including Michigan, where I am at) have an " opt

out " program. In Michigan, if you call, the Michigan Department of Agriculture

(I HIGHLY recommend anyone and everyone in Michigan to do this as more and more

communities are beginning to implement spray programs) they will put you on a

list and your house and the houses on either side of you will NOT be sprayed.

It isn't ideal, but it helps.

--

Sara

Find out what stinks in Genesee County!

http://geneseecountystinks.blogspot.com

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " pubrel " <pubrel@...>

Sheri N. and all!

Can you please shear some links/articles for reading about West Nile virus (if

you know of any)? My area has been fogged 4 times recently (this is new, but

on-going) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. My feeling is that

those pesticides pose more danger than the virus. There is a group for

residents in my area that Vector (the company performing foggings) uses to

announce their procedures. I would probably want to post some alternative

articles there, if I can find any. Can you help me?

Olga

[Guest guest]

At 11:17 PM 9/1/2006 -0700, you wrote:

>Sheri N. and all!

>Can you please shear some links/articles for reading about West Nile virus

(if you know of any)? My area has been fogged 4 times recently (this is

new, but on-going) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. My

feeling is that those pesticides pose more danger than the virus.

You are exactly right

Lies, lies and more lies

>>There is a group for residents in my area that Vector (the company

performing foggings) uses to announce their procedures. I would probably

want to post some alternative articles there, if I can find any. Can you

help me?

I'll send info and links

GO FOR IT

I think 'they' are specifically trying to injure and kill us (many others

will make money off that too)

Sheri

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

earthmysteriestours@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Reality of the Diseases & Treatment -

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccineclass.htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know or have any experience on treating a virus such as the west

nile virus? I was attacked last October and can't seem to get rid of it. I

started taking 6 drops of the MMS with the citric acid divided in half/ two

times a day. Any suggestions on the dosage or getting rid of a virus?