Marrying for Love ... of Money

[Guest guest]

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/104157/Marrying-for-Love-

of-Money

Marrying for Love ... of Money

Provided by The Wall Street Journal Online

by

Wednesday, January 9, 2008

On a recent episode of " Dirty Sexy Money, " ABC's soapy drama about

the filthy rich, heiress Darling gets married for the fourth

time, to a golf pro. Minutes after the ceremony, she decides she

wants a divorce, leaving the golfer to wonder about his $3 million

guarantee in the pre-nuptial agreement.

I still get the check, right? " he asks.

" Of course, " Ms. Darling sneers. " I made a vow. "

Marrying for money isn't just grist for television plot lines. With

the wealth boom creating unprecedented riches -- and greater

opportunities for gold-digging by both genders -- price-tag

partnerships and checkbook breakups are increasingly making

headlines. Even more surprising, according to a new survey, are the

going rates for today's mercenary unions.

BEAUTY FADES

Celebrities get the most attention, of course, whether it's

Federline, the backup dancer-turned-millionaire ex of Britney Spears,

or Mills, McCartney's estranged second wife, who is set

to receive tens of millions of dollars when her divorce is final,

according to the British press.

Yet even among the workaday (or wannabe) wealthy, marrying for money

has become a popular pursuit. In an infamous personal ad posted on

Craigslist this summer, a twentysomething New Yorker who described

herself as " spectacularly beautiful " wrote that she was looking for a

man who made at least $500,000 a year. She'd tried dating men earning

$250,000, but that wasn't " getting me to Central Park West, " she

said. The ad inspired all manner of parodies and follow-ups,

including one by an investment banker, who replied that since his

money would grow over time but her beauty would fade, the offer

didn't make good business sense. She was, he said, a " depreciating

asset. "

To many New Yorkers, jaded by multimillion-dollar condos and wall-to-

wall wealth, the salary request probably seems reasonable, maybe even

low. Yet nationally, the going rate is much lower.

According to a survey by Prince & Associates, a Connecticut-based

wealth-research firm, the average " price " that men and women demand

to marry for money these days is $1.5 million.

The survey polled 1,134 people nationwide with incomes ranging

between $30,000 to $60,000 (squarely in the median range for

nationwide incomes). The survey asked: " How willing are you to marry

an average-looking person that you liked, if they had money? "

AGAINST LOVE

Fully two-thirds of women and half of the men said they were " very "

or " extremely " willing to marry for money. The answers varied by age:

Women in their 30s were the most likely to say they would marry for

money (74%) while men in their 20s were the least likely (41%).

" I'm a little shocked at the numbers, " says Pamela Smock, a

sociologist at the University of Michigan who has studied marriage

and money. " It's kind of against the notion of love and soul mates

and the main motivations to marry in our culture. "

Still, Ms. Smock has found in her own research that having money does

encourage people to tie the knot. " It's more likely that a couple

will marry if they have money, and if the man is economically

stable, " she says.

Women aren't the only ones with the gold-digging impulse. In the

Prince & Associates study, 61% of men in their 40s said they would

marry for money. Ms. Smock says that as men get older, they become

more comfortable with women being the bread-winners.

The matrimonial price tag varies by gender and age. Asked how much a

potential spouse would need to have to be money-marriage material,

women in their 20s said $2.5 million. The going rate fell to $1.1

million for women in their 30s, and rose again to $2.2 million for

women in their 40s. Ms. Smock and Russ Alan Prince, Prince &

Associate's founder, both attribute the fluctuation to the assumption

that thirty-something women feel more pressure to get married than

women in their 20s, so they are willing to lower the price. By their

40s, women are more comfortable being independent, so they're willing

to hold out for more cash.

Men have cheaper requirements. In the Prince survey, their asking

price overall was $1.2 million, with men in their 20s asking $1

million and men in their 40s asking $1.4 million.

Freeman, a tax and estates attorney in California who works

with wealthy families, says the men's numbers are lower because they

would feel threatened by women worth several million dollars. " The

men aren't going to say they want $10 million, because they wouldn't

be comfortable with a woman who's worth so much more than they are, "

he says.

Whatever the case, the prices for both men and women seem

surprisingly low, given the new landscape of wealth. While $1 million

or $2 million may sound like a lot to people making $30,000, it's

hardly enough to transform someone's life or make them " rich " by

contemporary billionaire standards. No one in the survey quoted a

price of more than $3 million.

Of course, when the mercenary marriage proves disappointing, there's

always divorce. Among the women in their twenties who said they would

marry for money, 71% said they expected to get divorced -- the

highest of any demographic. Only 27% of men in their 40s expected to

divorce.

Says Mr. Prince: " For these women, it's just another step on their

journey to the good life. They want to be paid what they think

they're worth and then move on. "

Copyrighted, Dow & Company, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Guest guest]

Here's an idea. That spectacularly beautiful 20 something wants some who makes more then $500k per year? Very well. Let's auction her to the Saudi oil princes. The could get a whole new, exotic life in a harem, get highly fashionable burkas at home and fine dresses when he totes her off to Europe as arm candy.

I'm well aware of how young women are these days and is why I keep a low profile. Now, I'm not rich cashwise, but I have land that would have to be divided up in a divorce and would be enough to tempt some people. It is just really sad that humanity is so degenerate.

In a message dated 1/11/2008 1:49:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/104157/Marrying-for-Love-of-MoneyMarrying for Love ... of MoneyProvided by The Wall Street Journal Onlineby Wednesday, January 9, 2008On a recent episode of "Dirty Sexy Money," ABC's soapy drama about the filthy rich, heiress Darling gets married for the fourth time, to a golf pro. Minutes after the ceremony, she decides she wants a divorce, leaving the golfer to wonder about his $3 million guarantee in the pre-nuptial agreement.I still get the check, right?" he asks."Of course," Ms. Darling sneers. "I made a vow."Marrying for money isn't just grist for television plot lines. With the wealth boom creating unprecedented riches -- and greater opportunities for gold-digging by both genders -- price-tag partnerships and checkbook breakups are increasingly making headlines. Even more surprising, according to a new survey, are the going rates for today's mercenary unions.BEAUTY FADESCelebrities get the most attention, of course, whether it's Federline, the backup dancer-turned-millionaire ex of Britney Spears, or Mills, McCartney's estranged second wife, who is set to receive tens of millions of dollars when her divorce is final, according to the British press.Yet even among the workaday (or wannabe) wealthy, marrying for money has become a popular pursuit. In an infamous personal ad posted on Craigslist this summer, a twentysomething New Yorker who described herself as "spectacularly beautiful" wrote that she was looking for a man who made at least $500,000 a year. She'd tried dating men earning $250,000, but that wasn't "getting me to Central Park West," she said. The ad inspired all manner of parodies and follow-ups, including one by an investment banker, who replied that since his money would grow over time but her beauty would fade, the offer didn't make good business sense. She was, he said, a "depreciating asset."To many New Yorkers, jaded by multimillion-dollar condos and wall-to-wall wealth, the salary request probably seems reasonable, maybe even low. Yet nationally, the going rate is much lower.According to a survey by Prince & Associates, a Connecticut-based wealth-research firm, the average "price" that men and women demand to marry for money these days is $1.5 million.The survey polled 1,134 people nationwide with incomes ranging between $30,000 to $60,000 (squarely in the median range for nationwide incomes). The survey asked: "How willing are you to marry an average-looking person that you liked, if they had money?"AGAINST LOVEFully two-thirds of women and half of the men said they were "very" or "extremely" willing to marry for money. The answers varied by age: Women in their 30s were the most likely to say they would marry for money (74%) while men in their 20s were the least likely (41%)."I'm a little shocked at the numbers," says Pamela Smock, a sociologist at the University of Michigan who has studied marriage and money. "It's kind of against the notion of love and soul mates and the main motivations to marry in our culture."Still, Ms. Smock has found in her own research that having money does encourage people to tie the knot. "It's more likely that a couple will marry if they have money, and if the man is economically stable," she says.Women aren't the only ones with the gold-digging impulse. In the Prince & Associates study, 61% of men in their 40s said they would marry for money. Ms. Smock says that as men get older, they become more comfortable with women being the bread-winners.The matrimonial price tag varies by gender and age. Asked how much a potential spouse would need to have to be money-marriage material, women in their 20s said $2.5 million. The going rate fell to $1.1 million for women in their 30s, and rose again to $2.2 million for women in their 40s. Ms. Smock and Russ Alan Prince, Prince & Associate's founder, both attribute the fluctuation to the assumption that thirty-something women feel more pressure to get married than women in their 20s, so they are willing to lower the price. By their 40s, women are more comfortable being independent, so they're willing to hold out for more cash.Men have cheaper requirements. In the Prince survey, their asking price overall was $1.2 million, with men in their 20s asking $1 million and men in their 40s asking $1.4 million. Freeman, a tax and estates attorney in California who works with wealthy families, says the men's numbers are lower because they would feel threatened by women worth several million dollars. "The men aren't going to say they want $10 million, because they wouldn't be comfortable with a woman who's worth so much more than they are," he says.Whatever the case, the prices for both men and women seem surprisingly low, given the new landscape of wealth. While $1 million or $2 million may sound like a lot to people making $30,000, it's hardly enough to transform someone's life or make them "rich" by contemporary billionaire standards. No one in the survey quoted a price of more than $3 million.Of course, when the mercenary marriage proves disappointing, there's always divorce. Among the women in their twenties who said they would marry for money, 71% said they expected to get divorced -- the highest of any demographic. Only 27% of men in their 40s expected to divorce.Says Mr. Prince: "For these women, it's just another step on their journey to the good life. They want to be paid what they think they're worth and then move on."Copyrighted, Dow & Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Here's an idea. That spectacularly beautiful 20 something wants some who makes more then $500k per year? Very well. Let's auction her to the Saudi oil princes. The could get a whole new, exotic life in a harem, get highly fashionable burkas at home and fine dresses when he totes her off to Europe as arm candy.

I'm well aware of how young women are these days and is why I keep a low profile. Now, I'm not rich cashwise, but I have land that would have to be divided up in a divorce and would be enough to tempt some people. It is just really sad that humanity is so degenerate.

In a message dated 1/11/2008 1:49:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/104157/Marrying-for-Love-of-MoneyMarrying for Love ... of MoneyProvided by The Wall Street Journal Onlineby Wednesday, January 9, 2008On a recent episode of "Dirty Sexy Money," ABC's soapy drama about the filthy rich, heiress Darling gets married for the fourth time, to a golf pro. Minutes after the ceremony, she decides she wants a divorce, leaving the golfer to wonder about his $3 million guarantee in the pre-nuptial agreement.I still get the check, right?" he asks."Of course," Ms. Darling sneers. "I made a vow."Marrying for money isn't just grist for television plot lines. With the wealth boom creating unprecedented riches -- and greater opportunities for gold-digging by both genders -- price-tag partnerships and checkbook breakups are increasingly making headlines. Even more surprising, according to a new survey, are the going rates for today's mercenary unions.BEAUTY FADESCelebrities get the most attention, of course, whether it's Federline, the backup dancer-turned-millionaire ex of Britney Spears, or Mills, McCartney's estranged second wife, who is set to receive tens of millions of dollars when her divorce is final, according to the British press.Yet even among the workaday (or wannabe) wealthy, marrying for money has become a popular pursuit. In an infamous personal ad posted on Craigslist this summer, a twentysomething New Yorker who described herself as "spectacularly beautiful" wrote that she was looking for a man who made at least $500,000 a year. She'd tried dating men earning $250,000, but that wasn't "getting me to Central Park West," she said. The ad inspired all manner of parodies and follow-ups, including one by an investment banker, who replied that since his money would grow over time but her beauty would fade, the offer didn't make good business sense. She was, he said, a "depreciating asset."To many New Yorkers, jaded by multimillion-dollar condos and wall-to-wall wealth, the salary request probably seems reasonable, maybe even low. Yet nationally, the going rate is much lower.According to a survey by Prince & Associates, a Connecticut-based wealth-research firm, the average "price" that men and women demand to marry for money these days is $1.5 million.The survey polled 1,134 people nationwide with incomes ranging between $30,000 to $60,000 (squarely in the median range for nationwide incomes). The survey asked: "How willing are you to marry an average-looking person that you liked, if they had money?"AGAINST LOVEFully two-thirds of women and half of the men said they were "very" or "extremely" willing to marry for money. The answers varied by age: Women in their 30s were the most likely to say they would marry for money (74%) while men in their 20s were the least likely (41%)."I'm a little shocked at the numbers," says Pamela Smock, a sociologist at the University of Michigan who has studied marriage and money. "It's kind of against the notion of love and soul mates and the main motivations to marry in our culture."Still, Ms. Smock has found in her own research that having money does encourage people to tie the knot. "It's more likely that a couple will marry if they have money, and if the man is economically stable," she says.Women aren't the only ones with the gold-digging impulse. In the Prince & Associates study, 61% of men in their 40s said they would marry for money. Ms. Smock says that as men get older, they become more comfortable with women being the bread-winners.The matrimonial price tag varies by gender and age. Asked how much a potential spouse would need to have to be money-marriage material, women in their 20s said $2.5 million. The going rate fell to $1.1 million for women in their 30s, and rose again to $2.2 million for women in their 40s. Ms. Smock and Russ Alan Prince, Prince & Associate's founder, both attribute the fluctuation to the assumption that thirty-something women feel more pressure to get married than women in their 20s, so they are willing to lower the price. By their 40s, women are more comfortable being independent, so they're willing to hold out for more cash.Men have cheaper requirements. In the Prince survey, their asking price overall was $1.2 million, with men in their 20s asking $1 million and men in their 40s asking $1.4 million. Freeman, a tax and estates attorney in California who works with wealthy families, says the men's numbers are lower because they would feel threatened by women worth several million dollars. "The men aren't going to say they want $10 million, because they wouldn't be comfortable with a woman who's worth so much more than they are," he says.Whatever the case, the prices for both men and women seem surprisingly low, given the new landscape of wealth. While $1 million or $2 million may sound like a lot to people making $30,000, it's hardly enough to transform someone's life or make them "rich" by contemporary billionaire standards. No one in the survey quoted a price of more than $3 million.Of course, when the mercenary marriage proves disappointing, there's always divorce. Among the women in their twenties who said they would marry for money, 71% said they expected to get divorced -- the highest of any demographic. Only 27% of men in their 40s expected to divorce.Says Mr. Prince: "For these women, it's just another step on their journey to the good life. They want to be paid what they think they're worth and then move on."Copyrighted, Dow & Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Here's an idea. That spectacularly beautiful 20 something wants some who makes more then $500k per year? Very well. Let's auction her to the Saudi oil princes. The could get a whole new, exotic life in a harem, get highly fashionable burkas at home and fine dresses when he totes her off to Europe as arm candy.

I'm well aware of how young women are these days and is why I keep a low profile. Now, I'm not rich cashwise, but I have land that would have to be divided up in a divorce and would be enough to tempt some people. It is just really sad that humanity is so degenerate.

In a message dated 1/11/2008 1:49:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/104157/Marrying-for-Love-of-MoneyMarrying for Love ... of MoneyProvided by The Wall Street Journal Onlineby Wednesday, January 9, 2008On a recent episode of "Dirty Sexy Money," ABC's soapy drama about the filthy rich, heiress Darling gets married for the fourth time, to a golf pro. Minutes after the ceremony, she decides she wants a divorce, leaving the golfer to wonder about his $3 million guarantee in the pre-nuptial agreement.I still get the check, right?" he asks."Of course," Ms. Darling sneers. "I made a vow."Marrying for money isn't just grist for television plot lines. With the wealth boom creating unprecedented riches -- and greater opportunities for gold-digging by both genders -- price-tag partnerships and checkbook breakups are increasingly making headlines. Even more surprising, according to a new survey, are the going rates for today's mercenary unions.BEAUTY FADESCelebrities get the most attention, of course, whether it's Federline, the backup dancer-turned-millionaire ex of Britney Spears, or Mills, McCartney's estranged second wife, who is set to receive tens of millions of dollars when her divorce is final, according to the British press.Yet even among the workaday (or wannabe) wealthy, marrying for money has become a popular pursuit. In an infamous personal ad posted on Craigslist this summer, a twentysomething New Yorker who described herself as "spectacularly beautiful" wrote that she was looking for a man who made at least $500,000 a year. She'd tried dating men earning $250,000, but that wasn't "getting me to Central Park West," she said. The ad inspired all manner of parodies and follow-ups, including one by an investment banker, who replied that since his money would grow over time but her beauty would fade, the offer didn't make good business sense. She was, he said, a "depreciating asset."To many New Yorkers, jaded by multimillion-dollar condos and wall-to-wall wealth, the salary request probably seems reasonable, maybe even low. Yet nationally, the going rate is much lower.According to a survey by Prince & Associates, a Connecticut-based wealth-research firm, the average "price" that men and women demand to marry for money these days is $1.5 million.The survey polled 1,134 people nationwide with incomes ranging between $30,000 to $60,000 (squarely in the median range for nationwide incomes). The survey asked: "How willing are you to marry an average-looking person that you liked, if they had money?"AGAINST LOVEFully two-thirds of women and half of the men said they were "very" or "extremely" willing to marry for money. The answers varied by age: Women in their 30s were the most likely to say they would marry for money (74%) while men in their 20s were the least likely (41%)."I'm a little shocked at the numbers," says Pamela Smock, a sociologist at the University of Michigan who has studied marriage and money. "It's kind of against the notion of love and soul mates and the main motivations to marry in our culture."Still, Ms. Smock has found in her own research that having money does encourage people to tie the knot. "It's more likely that a couple will marry if they have money, and if the man is economically stable," she says.Women aren't the only ones with the gold-digging impulse. In the Prince & Associates study, 61% of men in their 40s said they would marry for money. Ms. Smock says that as men get older, they become more comfortable with women being the bread-winners.The matrimonial price tag varies by gender and age. Asked how much a potential spouse would need to have to be money-marriage material, women in their 20s said $2.5 million. The going rate fell to $1.1 million for women in their 30s, and rose again to $2.2 million for women in their 40s. Ms. Smock and Russ Alan Prince, Prince & Associate's founder, both attribute the fluctuation to the assumption that thirty-something women feel more pressure to get married than women in their 20s, so they are willing to lower the price. By their 40s, women are more comfortable being independent, so they're willing to hold out for more cash.Men have cheaper requirements. In the Prince survey, their asking price overall was $1.2 million, with men in their 20s asking $1 million and men in their 40s asking $1.4 million. Freeman, a tax and estates attorney in California who works with wealthy families, says the men's numbers are lower because they would feel threatened by women worth several million dollars. "The men aren't going to say they want $10 million, because they wouldn't be comfortable with a woman who's worth so much more than they are," he says.Whatever the case, the prices for both men and women seem surprisingly low, given the new landscape of wealth. While $1 million or $2 million may sound like a lot to people making $30,000, it's hardly enough to transform someone's life or make them "rich" by contemporary billionaire standards. No one in the survey quoted a price of more than $3 million.Of course, when the mercenary marriage proves disappointing, there's always divorce. Among the women in their twenties who said they would marry for money, 71% said they expected to get divorced -- the highest of any demographic. Only 27% of men in their 40s expected to divorce.Says Mr. Prince: "For these women, it's just another step on their journey to the good life. They want to be paid what they think they're worth and then move on."Copyrighted, Dow & Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

A possibility, as are prenuptial agreements. Still, all things considered, I'm going to stay single.

In a message dated 1/11/2008 2:54:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

,Put your land and assets in a family trust with you being the administrator and beneficiary. In many states and circumstances, such trusts, if you set them up right, may be exempt from divorce procedings. TomAdministratorStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I was nearly married once. I mentioned the idea of a prenup and she wouldn't hear of it, so that was that. Another young lady I found interesting huffed at that idea of a prenup when I mentioned it in passing during a lunch date. In addition, I have been places where the ladies were ignoring me beyond being marginally polite, only to get a lot friendlier when they found out who I was. Well, I should say a little friendlier since I don't meet many other criteria such as height, looks, etc.

I know this isn't true for everyone, but thus far it has been my luck to encounter the bad. There are other reasons why I am not particularly interested in getting married, the financial aspect is only one. The others weren't mentioned because they weren't relevant to the article in question.

It seems an unfair blanket conclusion based on bad behavior by both sexes. It cannot be used as an excuse to never marry. Be honest you don't ever want to marry and that is your decision and not an excuse of unsuitable opposite sexed individuals(as the case may be). It is too easy to "blame" a decision on some convient circumstance. No one says anyone has to do anything and it seems people didn't answer this New Yorker. If anything it points to what seems acceptable to New Yorkers as a whole. Look; people stink, and there are no gender rules for that. Your best hope is to find any other person to talk to that doesn't stink--- see the new definition of happiness. MimiStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

,

Put your land and assets in a family trust with you being the

administrator and beneficiary. In many states and circumstances, such

trusts, if you set them up right, may be exempt from divorce

procedings.

Tom

Administrator

" Now, I'm not rich cashwise, but I have land that would have to be

divided up in a divorce and would be enough to tempt some people. It is

just really sad that humanity is so degenerate. "

[Guest guest]

>

> A possibility, as are prenuptial agreements. Still, all things

considered,

> I'm going to stay single.

>

>

>

>

It seems an unfair blanket conclusion based on bad behavior by both

sexes. It cannot be used as an excuse to never marry. Be honest you

don't ever want to marry and that is your decision and not an excuse of

unsuitable opposite sexed individuals(as the case may be). It is too

easy to " blame " a decision on some convient circumstance. No one says

anyone has to do anything and it seems people didn't answer this New

Yorker. If anything it points to what seems acceptable to New Yorkers

as a whole. Look; people stink, and there are no gender rules for

that. Your best hope is to find any other person to talk to that

doesn't stink--- see the new definition of happiness. Mimi

[Guest guest]

>

> Actually, I was nearly married once. I mentioned the idea of a

prenup and

> she wouldn't hear of it, so that was that. Another young lady I

found

> interesting huffed at that idea of a prenup when I mentioned it in

passing during a

> lunch date. In addition, I have been places where the ladies were

ignoring me

> beyond being marginally polite, only to get a lot friendlier when

they found

> out who I was.

Ok well that may be true of the people you mentioned, as you stated

others do exsist. It is not just women that are catty. Prenups are

fine given terms are fair. My father married my step-mother with a

prenup and the marriage is 20+ years old and the prenup expired. My

step-mother is ill and my father is still next to her when her own

children(whom are rich avoid her) So people stink.

Well, I should say a little friendlier since I don't meet many

> other criteria such as height, looks, etc.

>

> I know this isn't true for everyone, but thus far it has been my

luck to

> encounter the bad. There are other reasons why I am not

particularly interested

> in getting married, the financial aspect is only one. The others

weren't

> mentioned because they weren't relevant to the article in question.

>

>

>

>

I am not picking on you and you have the right to decide what you

want to. But I do get tired of hearing how terrible women are, how

gold digging and money grubby. Some are humanitarians and some are

long suffering and some deserve halo's that won't be handed out

because good behavior doesn't seem to deserve mention while bad

behavior gets full press coverage. Just wanted the scale to balance

mimi

[Guest guest]

>

In actuality I am in a bit of a violated mood. Once again sick

children that have no manners have been pushed on me. the offending

female was a gold digger and I end up cleaning up after the disaster of

someone else's selfish decisions, and tonight I am tired of short

sighted people. i hope is well aware that I find him an

upstanding individual with a well ordered life, and perhaps an ill view

of women. But some women deserve final rest in the manner befitting

the statement. anyway hello all Mimi

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm not rich cashwise, but I have

land that would have to be divided up in a divorce and would be

enough to tempt some people ... <snip> ... "

Maybe you should consider marrying a Canadian in Canada where the law

states that what each brings in to the marriage remains the property

of the individual who brought it in to the marriage.

Only those things that have been created within the marriage are to

be split between the two should they separate and/or divorce.

Mind you, if your business increases during the time you are with

your partner, then the increase MAY POSSIBLY be considered (not a

given though) provided the other person can PROVE that they directly

contributed to the increase. That being said, it would not apply to

the principal or to the pre-existing business.

Still, a prenuptial agreement is the way to go, in my opinion.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to hear you are going through this, mimi. I hope

things improve greatly in short order.

Raven

Co-Administrator

> >

> In actuality I am in a bit of a violated mood. Once again sick

> children that have no manners have been pushed on me. the

offending

> female was a gold digger and I end up cleaning up after the

disaster of

> someone else's selfish decisions, and tonight I am tired of short

> sighted people. i hope is well aware that I find him an

> upstanding individual with a well ordered life, and perhaps an ill

view

> of women. But some women deserve final rest in the manner

befitting

> the statement. anyway hello all Mimi

>

[Guest guest]

" It seems an unfair blanket conclusion based on bad behavior by both

sexes. It cannot be used as an excuse to never marry. "

Tom here...

For a while there I simply stopped looking and had no intent to

marry. The reason was because I HAVE found that many women tend to be

fickle and shallow and I was just plain sick of it. The GOOD women

are few and far between and hard to find. I would NOT put that label

on ALL women however, but I will say that the grief I've had over

women in the past was clearly enough for me to want to remain single

indefinitely.

Raven is really one in a million. She's got the best of all the

qualities I am looking for...and makes good chicken besides.

" Be honest you don't ever want to marry and that is your decision and

not an excuse of unsuitable opposite sexed individuals(as the case

may be). It is too easy to " blame " a decision on some convient

circumstance. "

I cannot speak for , but I've ALWAYS wanted to marry, even

when I decided to give up dating. It truly was the women that made me

decide to stay single until I met Raven.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Same here.

Tom

Administrator

I am so sorry to hear you are going through this, mimi. I hope

things improve greatly in short order.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

MIMI wrote: " It seems an unfair blanket conclusion based on bad

behavior by both sexes. It cannot be used as an excuse to never

marry. "

TOM wrote: " For a while there I simply stopped looking and had no

intent to marry. The reason was because I HAVE found that many women

tend to be fickle and shallow and I was just plain sick of it. The

GOOD women are few and far between and hard to find. I would NOT put

that label on ALL women however, but I will say that the grief I've

had over women in the past was clearly enough for me to want to

remain single indefinitely ... <snip> ... "

I have to say that when I split with my ex-husband years and years

and years ago, he was (in my opinion at that time and for many years

to follow) the LAST male with whom I would involve myself on a

personal relationship level.

I didn't think that ALL men were the same but I did feel that I had a

knack for finding the worst of the lot (two ex-boyfriends and one ex-

husband was the sampling group so not a large pool) and I watched as

many of my acquaintances went through terrible breaks ups (both male

and female acquaintances) to come to the conclusion that it was

pretty much impossible to find someone with whom an individual could

truly resonate.

When I started seeing parents of acquaintances breaking up after 30,

40 and in some cases 50 plus years of marriage and it all came down

to MONEY and PROPERTY and POSSESSIONS, it bolstered my resolve even

more to not involve myself in a personal relationship again.

I was mistaken however and thank goodness I was!

TOM wrote: " ... <snip> ... Raven is really one in a million. She's

got the best of all the qualities I am looking for...and makes good

chicken besides ... <snip> ... "

Now this may sound corny to most of you but over the years most of my

projects have someone referred to, or included, Chicagoland ... from

jazz revues that gravitated towards the jazz era in Chicago as

opposed to Kansas City or New York through to writing original songs

that referenced Chicago.

I would wonder from time to time if the one that was meant to be mine

was out there somewhere wondering about my existence. When looking

for professional representation,

I would include Chicago along with the traditional city picks for

music and business (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Los Angeles, New

York, Nashville) without really understanding why it was important to

do so but I did so because it would bother me to no end when I did

not.

Somewhere on a aubconcious level, I knew that my other half was out

there and I had a natural knowing as to where in the world I would

find him.

It was because I trusted that Great Spirit would bring me to my

partner or that he would bring my partner to me that I did not close,

lock and bolt the door on love. And when I least expected to find

him, there he was ... except I didn't know this because we were

friends for a couple years before we became involved as more than

friends.

Like who feels I have the best of all the qualities he is

looking for, I feel that best embodies all the qualities I

want in a partner. What's more is that he does not leave me feeling

diminished for being true to myself.

Bottom line is this -- if you can't be true to yourself, you cannot

be true to any other.

And I do make very good chicken! :-D

MIMI wrote: " ... <sinp> ... Be honest you don't ever want to marry

and that is your decision and not an excuse of unsuitable opposite

sexed individuals(as the case may be). It is too easy to " blame " a

decision on some convient circumstance ... <snip> ... "

TOM wrote: " ... <snip> ... I cannot speak for , but I've

ALWAYS wanted to marry, even when I decided to give up dating. It

truly was the women that made me decide to stay single until I met

Raven ... <snip> ... "

For me, it was truly the men I dated/married as well as the men and

women I saw acquaintances dating/marrying as well as the devastation

my ex-husband wrought on my life and the life of our child that made

me decide to remain single ... until I met .

Every day I thank Great Spirit for bringing us together. I just

sometimes wonder what took so long. :-)

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

To Raven:

From

Administrator

Every day I thank Great Spirit for bringing us together. I justsometimes wonder what took so long. :-)RavenCo-Administrator

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am sure Raven is one in a Million, and

those odds are tough ... <snip> ... So I can only speak about my own

hopefulness, but I hope decent opposite sexed individuals do exist in

the world, and that of those people there is someone out there, that

matches each of us ... <snip> ... "

mimi, if it helps any, I will tell you that I am quite ancient and

was only slightly less ancient when found me. :-)

I do believe that there is a 'partner' for everyone and everything in

life ... the balance of the Universe depends on partnering. I do not

mean this in a desperate sort of way either.

There can be no up without a down, no left without a right, no in

without an out.

I do believe that you will find your complementary half with each

individual being a whole unto himself or herself. The problem most

of the time is that people give up too easily and become disheartened

too quickly and oftentimes decide to settle instead of continuing to

move forward to where they need to be.

mimi, things will continue to change as you go through life. You are

still very young (compared to me who is ancient, remember?) and you

have many years of journeying ahead of you. Have faith in what you

know at the center of your being to be true for you.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am sure Raven is one in a Million, and

those odds are tough ... <snip> ... So I can only speak about my own

hopefulness, but I hope decent opposite sexed individuals do exist in

the world, and that of those people there is someone out there, that

matches each of us ... <snip> ... "

mimi, if it helps any, I will tell you that I am quite ancient and

was only slightly less ancient when found me. :-)

I do believe that there is a 'partner' for everyone and everything in

life ... the balance of the Universe depends on partnering. I do not

mean this in a desperate sort of way either.

There can be no up without a down, no left without a right, no in

without an out.

I do believe that you will find your complementary half with each

individual being a whole unto himself or herself. The problem most

of the time is that people give up too easily and become disheartened

too quickly and oftentimes decide to settle instead of continuing to

move forward to where they need to be.

mimi, things will continue to change as you go through life. You are

still very young (compared to me who is ancient, remember?) and you

have many years of journeying ahead of you. Have faith in what you

know at the center of your being to be true for you.

Raven

Co-Administrator