Guest guest Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 In a message dated 6/14/2004 11:38:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lghthousegrl@... writes: > the > citrate is upsetting my tummy. Take it with food. I know the debate about with food/not with food, but getting it in is much more important than the other issue. Hugs and blessings, Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 > i have switched from calcium carbonate to citrate. i have to take > more to get in my 2000 g but oh well. anyway- problem is, the > citrate is upsetting my tummy. anyone have any advice or an idea of > what i can take for citrate that wont cause this?? > > thank you > > vicki ============================= Sometimes you just need to start off adding to your regime slowly, giving your body a chance to adapt. Try taking a dose of citrate during the time of day that it seems to give you the least amount of problems...take the calcium carbonate you were taking the rest of the time....then as tolerated replace the carbonate doses with the cirtate ones. Jo Plus there is nothing wrong with taking Both types of calcuim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 > i have switched from calcium carbonate to citrate. i have to take > more to get in my 2000 g but oh well. anyway- problem is, the > citrate is upsetting my tummy. anyone have any advice or an idea of > what i can take for citrate that wont cause this?? > > thank you > > vicki ============================= Sometimes you just need to start off adding to your regime slowly, giving your body a chance to adapt. Try taking a dose of citrate during the time of day that it seems to give you the least amount of problems...take the calcium carbonate you were taking the rest of the time....then as tolerated replace the carbonate doses with the cirtate ones. Jo Plus there is nothing wrong with taking Both types of calcuim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 " it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, Graham " Well, I do not think that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING bad that hapens to a person can be traced back to what they have done. However, Aspies do tend to see the logical progression of events better than NTs. They can trace them backwards to their origin and forward to their conclusion, and so sometimes Aspies will say " That was your fault " when the person to whom s/he is speaking cannot see how it could possibly be their fault. Additionally, if one is religious, then one must accept that God sometimes teaches us lessons based on what we do. The past can come back to haunt us if we have sinned. One other thing that makes your Aspie person's statement truthful is that Aspies tend to get hammered more because they are different. Thus they do not escape the notice of NTs. We are held accountable more for minor, petty things because we are simply not liked by many. Whereas someone may overlook a trivial slight in a person with whom they have a social investment, they will not overlook that same social slight in a person with whom they have no social investment. Thus NTs may accuse Aspies of being pessimistic and subjective while we are in fact realistic and objective. This is an example of how two people can walk side by side, experience the exact same thing, but experience it differently. Further, we make accommodations for this discriminatory treatment, and one of those accommodations is pessimism. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 " it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, Graham " Well, I do not think that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING bad that hapens to a person can be traced back to what they have done. However, Aspies do tend to see the logical progression of events better than NTs. They can trace them backwards to their origin and forward to their conclusion, and so sometimes Aspies will say " That was your fault " when the person to whom s/he is speaking cannot see how it could possibly be their fault. Additionally, if one is religious, then one must accept that God sometimes teaches us lessons based on what we do. The past can come back to haunt us if we have sinned. One other thing that makes your Aspie person's statement truthful is that Aspies tend to get hammered more because they are different. Thus they do not escape the notice of NTs. We are held accountable more for minor, petty things because we are simply not liked by many. Whereas someone may overlook a trivial slight in a person with whom they have a social investment, they will not overlook that same social slight in a person with whom they have no social investment. Thus NTs may accuse Aspies of being pessimistic and subjective while we are in fact realistic and objective. This is an example of how two people can walk side by side, experience the exact same thing, but experience it differently. Further, we make accommodations for this discriminatory treatment, and one of those accommodations is pessimism. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Even though I am experiencing an exceedingly difficult time in my life, has asked me to consider answering this post. I think it's because most people here have heard me speak often about the Law of Neutrality and about accountability in all aspects of life that touch upon your own, directly and indirectly. Graham wrote: " it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " ... <snip> ... " It is not really a case of " It's your fault " reasoning, Graham. Everthing in life -- good and bad according to one's perception of the neutral event -- can be traced back to something the individual has done to bring him or her to the point where each thing has happened. To explain this better, you have to understand that everything in life is a neutral event and how we choose to interpret it will define whether we perceive it as negative or positive. No matter what happens in life that affects the individual, it is up to the individual to interpret each event according to his or her own perceptions. Directly and indirectly, the individual has control over his or her life and everything that happens, therefore, happens for a reason either by personal choice or by Divine intervention. If it is by personal choice, then the individual has a direct connection to the event. If it is by Divine intervention, then the individual has an indirect connection to the event because the individual must experience this event in order to move forward in his or her life. Therefore, everything in life ties back to something the individual has chosen to do or chosen not to do up until that point. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes, I can't really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip ... <snip> ... " I would say that using the Law of Neutrality to sanction a guilt trip is illogical. If the individual takes the guilt trip OUT of the equation, I can see that accepting the Law of Neutrality will give the individual greater control and acceptance of the events that occur across his or her lifetime. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... Do any of you think this is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of thinking.as I am NT I need guidance ... <snip> ... " Both of your are incorrect and both of you are correct ... to varying degrees. While accountability and the Law of Neutrality is correct thinking, attributing guilt to the formula and living one's life based on the direction guilt leads is incorrect. I hope this helps. Now back to my bubble. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Even though I am experiencing an exceedingly difficult time in my life, has asked me to consider answering this post. I think it's because most people here have heard me speak often about the Law of Neutrality and about accountability in all aspects of life that touch upon your own, directly and indirectly. Graham wrote: " it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " ... <snip> ... " It is not really a case of " It's your fault " reasoning, Graham. Everthing in life -- good and bad according to one's perception of the neutral event -- can be traced back to something the individual has done to bring him or her to the point where each thing has happened. To explain this better, you have to understand that everything in life is a neutral event and how we choose to interpret it will define whether we perceive it as negative or positive. No matter what happens in life that affects the individual, it is up to the individual to interpret each event according to his or her own perceptions. Directly and indirectly, the individual has control over his or her life and everything that happens, therefore, happens for a reason either by personal choice or by Divine intervention. If it is by personal choice, then the individual has a direct connection to the event. If it is by Divine intervention, then the individual has an indirect connection to the event because the individual must experience this event in order to move forward in his or her life. Therefore, everything in life ties back to something the individual has chosen to do or chosen not to do up until that point. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes, I can't really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip ... <snip> ... " I would say that using the Law of Neutrality to sanction a guilt trip is illogical. If the individual takes the guilt trip OUT of the equation, I can see that accepting the Law of Neutrality will give the individual greater control and acceptance of the events that occur across his or her lifetime. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... Do any of you think this is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of thinking.as I am NT I need guidance ... <snip> ... " Both of your are incorrect and both of you are correct ... to varying degrees. While accountability and the Law of Neutrality is correct thinking, attributing guilt to the formula and living one's life based on the direction guilt leads is incorrect. I hope this helps. Now back to my bubble. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Even though I am experiencing an exceedingly difficult time in my life, has asked me to consider answering this post. I think it's because most people here have heard me speak often about the Law of Neutrality and about accountability in all aspects of life that touch upon your own, directly and indirectly. Graham wrote: " it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " ... <snip> ... " It is not really a case of " It's your fault " reasoning, Graham. Everthing in life -- good and bad according to one's perception of the neutral event -- can be traced back to something the individual has done to bring him or her to the point where each thing has happened. To explain this better, you have to understand that everything in life is a neutral event and how we choose to interpret it will define whether we perceive it as negative or positive. No matter what happens in life that affects the individual, it is up to the individual to interpret each event according to his or her own perceptions. Directly and indirectly, the individual has control over his or her life and everything that happens, therefore, happens for a reason either by personal choice or by Divine intervention. If it is by personal choice, then the individual has a direct connection to the event. If it is by Divine intervention, then the individual has an indirect connection to the event because the individual must experience this event in order to move forward in his or her life. Therefore, everything in life ties back to something the individual has chosen to do or chosen not to do up until that point. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes, I can't really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip ... <snip> ... " I would say that using the Law of Neutrality to sanction a guilt trip is illogical. If the individual takes the guilt trip OUT of the equation, I can see that accepting the Law of Neutrality will give the individual greater control and acceptance of the events that occur across his or her lifetime. Graham wrote: " ... <snip> ... Do any of you think this is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of thinking.as I am NT I need guidance ... <snip> ... " Both of your are incorrect and both of you are correct ... to varying degrees. While accountability and the Law of Neutrality is correct thinking, attributing guilt to the formula and living one's life based on the direction guilt leads is incorrect. I hope this helps. Now back to my bubble. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I don't agree fully that 'any bad thing' can be traced back to something one has done, therefore 'your fault'. However I have heard this kind of philosophy before, taken to extremes it could be almost OCD thinking. I know that certain 'self help' books that can be quite popular (Louise (sp?)) and others suggest that every difficulty, problem or ailment we have, etc (all negatives) are somehow our fault. > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I don't agree fully that 'any bad thing' can be traced back to something one has done, therefore 'your fault'. However I have heard this kind of philosophy before, taken to extremes it could be almost OCD thinking. I know that certain 'self help' books that can be quite popular (Louise (sp?)) and others suggest that every difficulty, problem or ailment we have, etc (all negatives) are somehow our fault. > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I don't agree fully that 'any bad thing' can be traced back to something one has done, therefore 'your fault'. However I have heard this kind of philosophy before, taken to extremes it could be almost OCD thinking. I know that certain 'self help' books that can be quite popular (Louise (sp?)) and others suggest that every difficulty, problem or ailment we have, etc (all negatives) are somehow our fault. > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 This is highly illogical thinking, which I echo from at least one other response. I'm of the belief that things happen due to eternal laws that don't change, and eternal laws govern the cause-effect of everything. Certainly, how you interpret things matters to you and all those that deal with you, and perhaps they can be considered " neutral " if you wish to consider that, but the concept that things happen because of one or more of your actions in all cases doesn't hold up in reality: how could various disasters (tornado hitting you, asteroid deciding to reach earth, lightning strike directly on your house (happened to me) someoen spinning their car out of control through your backyard after they failed to pass someone correctly (happened to me) or a 210 foot tall crane falling directly over your head and killing your upstairs neighbor (happened to me, yes, as odd as that sounds!) ) be attributable to things you've done? What about the people in the World Trade Center that got nailed? Sure, they were there, and they chose for some reason or another to be there, but... that they were affected wasn't their fault, and babies getting sick? How can a baby be blamed when it has no control whatsoever over its actions at such a level? Bad things happen to perfectly innocent people that didn't commit any action or inaction that could reasonably be interpreted as to make something their fault, and, more often than not, outside forces are involved, but it's important to note: everything works as it does because there are eternal laws that cannot be broken by the will of any single human or any group of them, either; this reminds me of something I've seen on a t-shirt: " Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law! " > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 This is highly illogical thinking, which I echo from at least one other response. I'm of the belief that things happen due to eternal laws that don't change, and eternal laws govern the cause-effect of everything. Certainly, how you interpret things matters to you and all those that deal with you, and perhaps they can be considered " neutral " if you wish to consider that, but the concept that things happen because of one or more of your actions in all cases doesn't hold up in reality: how could various disasters (tornado hitting you, asteroid deciding to reach earth, lightning strike directly on your house (happened to me) someoen spinning their car out of control through your backyard after they failed to pass someone correctly (happened to me) or a 210 foot tall crane falling directly over your head and killing your upstairs neighbor (happened to me, yes, as odd as that sounds!) ) be attributable to things you've done? What about the people in the World Trade Center that got nailed? Sure, they were there, and they chose for some reason or another to be there, but... that they were affected wasn't their fault, and babies getting sick? How can a baby be blamed when it has no control whatsoever over its actions at such a level? Bad things happen to perfectly innocent people that didn't commit any action or inaction that could reasonably be interpreted as to make something their fault, and, more often than not, outside forces are involved, but it's important to note: everything works as it does because there are eternal laws that cannot be broken by the will of any single human or any group of them, either; this reminds me of something I've seen on a t-shirt: " Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law! " > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 This is highly illogical thinking, which I echo from at least one other response. I'm of the belief that things happen due to eternal laws that don't change, and eternal laws govern the cause-effect of everything. Certainly, how you interpret things matters to you and all those that deal with you, and perhaps they can be considered " neutral " if you wish to consider that, but the concept that things happen because of one or more of your actions in all cases doesn't hold up in reality: how could various disasters (tornado hitting you, asteroid deciding to reach earth, lightning strike directly on your house (happened to me) someoen spinning their car out of control through your backyard after they failed to pass someone correctly (happened to me) or a 210 foot tall crane falling directly over your head and killing your upstairs neighbor (happened to me, yes, as odd as that sounds!) ) be attributable to things you've done? What about the people in the World Trade Center that got nailed? Sure, they were there, and they chose for some reason or another to be there, but... that they were affected wasn't their fault, and babies getting sick? How can a baby be blamed when it has no control whatsoever over its actions at such a level? Bad things happen to perfectly innocent people that didn't commit any action or inaction that could reasonably be interpreted as to make something their fault, and, more often than not, outside forces are involved, but it's important to note: everything works as it does because there are eternal laws that cannot be broken by the will of any single human or any group of them, either; this reminds me of something I've seen on a t-shirt: " Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law! " > > it has been suggested to me that any thing bad that happens to you can > be traced back to something you have done. That is, " it's your fault " . > This is possibly a result of Aspie logic taken to extremes,I can't > really accept this can be true and have been trying to stop the person > who made the sugestion going on a guilt trip. Do any of you think this > is an Aspie thing or am I right in trying to discourage this way of > thinking.as I am NT I need guidance, > Graham > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 strictnon_conformist wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm of the belief that things happen due to eternal laws that don't change, and eternal laws govern the cause-effect of everything. Certainly, how you interpret things matters to you and all those that deal with you, and perhaps they can be considered " neutral " if you wish to consider that, but the concept that things happen because of one or more of your actions in all cases doesn't hold up in reality: how could various disasters (tornado hitting you, asteroid deciding to reach earth, lightning strike directly on your house (happened to me) someoen spinning their car out of control through your backyard after they failed to pass someone correctly (happened to me) or a 210 foot tall crane falling directly over your head and killing your upstairs neighbor (happened to me, yes, as odd as that sounds!) ) be attributable to things you've done? ... <snip> ... " While all of the circumstances you mentioned can be seen as negative, they are not negative by virtue of having happened. Everything you labeled as being " BAD " is " BAD " because you have chosen to attribute negative thought to them. They are just events that happened and within those events, people were affected. When a fire burns down a house, most will carry on about how BAD the situation. A few will talk about how GOOD this is for a number of reasons from no one being hurt to being able to rebuild the house of their dreams. It's all in how one interprets the neutral event that determines if the individual will label it " BAD " or " GOOD. " And to that end, the individual has control over the situation ultimately. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 " And to that end, the individual has control over the situation ultimately. " That is only control over how one feels about a situation though? I do understand what you are getting at though - most people would consider death a bad thing, but I have known some in lots of pain and when they have died although I am sad they are dead and no longer here I am happy that they are no longer in pain. Ideally they'd be alive without the pain though. Also thinking about it if no-one died could the earth sustain that many people? Conversely things that many would assume to be good - like parties can be sensory overload for those with sensory issues. Which brings me onto the point - how can I view a party as 'good' or 'neutral' if I have sensory issues that make such painful for me? - I do not have control over my sensory issues. I also ponder on how much control a person has over a situation, even if it is just how one feels. For example I get depression, when suffering from such I can't just cheer up and I suspect it is the same for others who get depression. If it was a case of just viewing things in a different way (which I can) being the solution then I wouldn't be depressed. If I had a choice why would I chose depression? It is illogical and believe me, if it were as simple as saying 'I chose not to be depressed anymore' and voila I wouldn't be that would be great - but sadly I have not found that works. Basically how much control does one have over what they are feeling really? I tend to feel what I feel regardless. " ... <snip> ... I'm of the belief that > things happen due to eternal laws that don't change, and eternal laws > govern the cause-effect of everything. Certainly, how you interpret > things matters to you and all those that deal with you, and perhaps > they can be considered " neutral " if you wish to consider that, but > the concept that things happen because of one or more of your actions > in all cases doesn't hold up in reality: how could various disasters > (tornado hitting you, asteroid deciding to reach earth, lightning > strike directly on your house (happened to me) someoen spinning their > car out of control through your backyard after they failed to pass > someone correctly (happened to me) or a 210 foot tall crane falling > directly over your head and killing your upstairs neighbor (happened > to me, yes, as odd as that sounds!) ) be attributable to things > you've done? ... <snip> ... " > > While all of the circumstances you mentioned can be seen as negative, > they are not negative by virtue of having happened. > > Everything you labeled as being " BAD " is " BAD " because you have > chosen to attribute negative thought to them. > > They are just events that happened and within those events, people > were affected. > > When a fire burns down a house, most will carry on about how BAD the > situation. A few will talk about how GOOD this is for a number of > reasons from no one being hurt to being able to rebuild the house of > their dreams. > > It's all in how one interprets the neutral event that determines if > the individual will label it " BAD " or " GOOD. " > > And to that end, the individual has control over the situation > ultimately. > > Raven > Co-Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I also ponder on how much control a person has over a situation, even if it is just how one feels. For example I get depression, when suffering from such I can't just cheer up ... <snip> ... " But is 'cheering up' the appropriate option? IMHO, the more appropriate action is to view the situation and accept what cannot be changed and change those realities you can change. In accepting depression for what it is -- a neutral event which brings with it specific emotions and reactions to input in your life - - there is an admission that it is neither bad nor good. It just is what it is. Accept it. Embrace it. Attribute responsibility -- yes responsibility and not blame -- to those factors and individuals who must bear certain responsibilities for contributing to the situation. This is where the individual has control. wrote: " ... <snip> ... If I had a choice why would I chose depression? It is illogical and believe me, if it were as simple as saying 'I chose not to be depressed anymore' and voila I wouldn't be that would be great - but sadly I have not found that works ... <snip> ... " But depression serves a purpose in life believe it or not and so to deny depression is to suppress a part of who that is real. While no one would logically choose depression as a way to live life, that it is present is a neutral event. You did not ask for it and you did not actively cultivate it. It just is. This is the reality of your life at the moment as it is for many who also have depression. It is not logical to say to one's self while in the midst of a depression, " I chose not to be depressed anymore.' That is terribly illogical. What is logical is to say, " I am depressed. I accept that events, circumstances, et al in my life are such that depression is an appropriate response to the stimuli. I therefore embrace this depression and actively chose to accept the lessons I am learning at this time in my life. " Will it take away your depression? Probably not. Will it give you a calmer sense in life from which to accept that you have control of your life? Absolutely. wrote: " ... <snip> ... Basically how much control does one have over what they are feeling really? I tend to feel what I feel regardless ... <snip> ... " The Law of Neutrality does not mean you have control over what you are feeling. The Law of Neutrality functions under the premise that one's experiences and perceptions determine if an event is positive or negative and that the event itself does not carry a predetermined stamp of negative or positive. Once one's experiences and perceptions have determined if an event is positive or negative, the individual then has control over how much power he or she wishes to give that determination and control over how much the individual chooses to invest into that determination in order to reinforce it. For example, at the moment, there is a lot of upheaval in my life due to circumstances outside of my control. That's life. Everything that is happening in my world at the moment are neutral events. That I am feeling like I am in a tailspin is due to my experiences and perceptions. That's fact. I can either invest in focusing on the negative aspects of the overall situation thereby accepting I can do nothing to improve the overall situation OR I can invest in focusing on what the life lessons are that I am meant to learn from the overall situation. Santayana once wrote: " Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. " The entire concept of the Law of Neutrality is a difficult concept for most people to understand and incorporate into their mindset, . It is not about 'happy happy joy joy' all the time beliefs. It is about learning from every event in one's life regardless of the determination one's experiences and perceptions paint on neutral events in the moment each event occurs. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 > In accepting depression for what it is -- a neutral event which > brings with it specific emotions and reactions to input in your life - > - there is an admission that it is neither bad nor good. It just is > what it is. > > Accept it. Embrace it. Attribute responsibility -- yes > responsibility and not blame -- to those factors and individuals who > must bear certain responsibilities for contributing to the situation. I've been following this topic and find that I agree with these statements. Just yesterday when speaking to my husband I expressed the fact that I am depressed. He said he wishes that he could do something to help and suggested I change doctors so I would be able to see a therapist that we as a family have seen before. She did help my husband quite a bit but I know what factors effect my mood and I also know that there are things out of my control. I feel that I already know what would be said if I did go to see her and it would be a waste of time hearing what I already know. Depression is a part of my life and always will be and that when I feel my life unraveling, I must take a step back, retreat so to speak. I must let myself go through the deep angst I feel and then focus on what really matters most to me. I am thankful that this topic has been brought up and I can read the prospective views on depression from others. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks for clarifying. In regards to the depression I do not deny it, I choose not to let it spiral out of control if I can help it and I do try to view situations in a way to try and see what I can change and what cannot be changed - I will admit it is not always easy though. " Those who cannot learn from history > are doomed to repeat it. " > > The entire concept of the Law of Neutrality is a difficult concept > for most people to understand and incorporate into their mindset, > . It is not about 'happy happy joy joy' all the time beliefs. > It is about learning from every event in one's life regardless of the > determination one's experiences and perceptions paint on neutral > events in the moment each event occurs. > > Raven > Co-Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 " Just yesterday when speaking to my husband I expressed the fact that I am depressed. He said he wishes that he could do something to help and suggested I change doctors so I would be able to see a therapist that we as a family have seen before. She did help my husband quite a bit but I know what factors effect my mood and I also know that there are things out of my control. I feel that I already know what would be said if I did go to see her and it would be a waste of time hearing what I already know. " The one area where therapy has failed me is the one you are describing. Unfortunately, my therapist is NT, and believes that the more " fun " experiences you have, the less depressed you will get as time goes on. She is also big on having a " supportive network of friends. " For me, having so much fun makes the rest of my life look so much worse by comparrison, and having so many friends is physically, emotionally, and mentally exhausting...which leads to depression. I am reluctant to try meds, but I will say that for me, chocolate helps and nicotine helps, but I cannot eat myself out of deepression, and smoking will kill me. I now have a bunch of Nicorette chewing gum waiting to be chewed, and I intend to start soon. I think for a therapist to be truly effective in the area of depression he or she needs to have had depression for an extended period of time. I have read that EVERYONE will experience a period of depressionin their lives, and that the majority of these periods last two weeks to one month. That is NOT depression in my opinion. That is a natural reaction to ife's circumstances. Even if there is no definitive cause, SOMETHING caused it, and people are usually able to snap out of it fairly quickly. The deprssion that depressed people have is always present, but flares up and calms down now and then. " Depression is a part of my life and always will be and that when I feel my life unraveling, I must take a step back, retreat so to speak. I must let myself go through the deep angst I feel and then focus on what really matters most to me. " If it is a choice between experiencing life's events through my own eyes and being a happy person on anti-depressents, I'd choose the real me also. Really, I think taking pills for depression the way MOST people do is somewhat dysfunctional. It's sort of like extending yourself beyond engineering tolerances rather than trying to change the events or shut people out that are causing the depression. Yes, some people need the pills. Those would be the extreme examples. But the middle class housewife who has everything she wants but " is not content " doesn't need to be popping Zoloft or Paxil every day. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 This has gotten me thinking - although doesn't take much :-) I remember reading many years ago about the four humors or temperaments; Choleric, melancholic, sanguine and phlegmatic. To my recollection I came out as mostly melancholic and from what I recall people with such temperaments are often prone to depression and a fair bit of introspection too. So musing on this I think it might be quite natural for some to be more inclined to depression, which although obviously not fun is not always such a bad thing, I guess the positives of such is it can enable one to take stock of one's life and make changes where they need to be and can be made - I also think at times depression can drive one to strive harder, as in focus on what is really important and cut back on all the unnecessary stuff. I think many have forgotton that melancholy can be a natural temperament and instead expect everyone to be the same and 'happy, happy, joy, joy' all the time, which seriously is not realistic, especially for those who are not naturally inclined to be that way. Thoughts on the humors anyone? > > " Just yesterday when speaking to my husband I expressed the fact that > I am depressed. He said he wishes that he could do something to help > and suggested I change doctors so I would be able to see a therapist > that we as a family have seen before. She did help my husband quite a > bit but I know what factors effect my mood and I also know that there > are things out of my control. I feel that I already know what would > be said if I did go to see her and it would be a waste of time > hearing what I already know. " > > The one area where therapy has failed me is the one you are > describing. Unfortunately, my therapist is NT, and believes that the > more " fun " experiences you have, the less depressed you will get as > time goes on. She is also big on having a " supportive network of > friends. " > > For me, having so much fun makes the rest of my life look so much > worse by comparrison, and having so many friends is physically, > emotionally, and mentally exhausting...which leads to depression. I > am reluctant to try meds, but I will say that for me, chocolate helps > and nicotine helps, but I cannot eat myself out of deepression, and > smoking will kill me. I now have a bunch of Nicorette chewing gum > waiting to be chewed, and I intend to start soon. > > I think for a therapist to be truly effective in the area of > depression he or she needs to have had depression for an extended > period of time. I have read that EVERYONE will experience a period of > depressionin their lives, and that the majority of these periods last > two weeks to one month. > > That is NOT depression in my opinion. That is a natural reaction to > ife's circumstances. Even if there is no definitive cause, SOMETHING > caused it, and people are usually able to snap out of it fairly > quickly. The deprssion that depressed people have is always present, > but flares up and calms down now and then. > > " Depression is a part of my life and always will be and that when I > feel my life unraveling, I must take a step back, retreat so to > speak. I must let myself go through the deep angst I feel and then > focus on what really matters most to me. " > > If it is a choice between experiencing life's events through my own > eyes and being a happy person on anti-depressents, I'd choose the > real me also. > > Really, I think taking pills for depression the way MOST people do is > somewhat dysfunctional. It's sort of like extending yourself beyond > engineering tolerances rather than trying to change the events or > shut people out that are causing the depression. > > Yes, some people need the pills. Those would be the extreme examples. > But the middle class housewife who has everything she wants but " is > not content " doesn't need to be popping Zoloft or Paxil every day. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 > > " Depression is a part of my life and always will be and that when I > > feel my life unraveling, I must take a step back, retreat so to > > speak. I must let myself go through the deep angst I feel and then > > focus on what really matters most to me. " > > > > If it is a choice between experiencing life's events through my own > > eyes and being a happy person on anti-depressents, I'd choose the > > real me also. > > > > Really, I think taking pills for depression the way MOST people do > is > > somewhat dysfunctional. It's sort of like extending yourself beyond > > engineering tolerances rather than trying to change the events or > > shut people out that are causing the depression. > > > > Yes, some people need the pills. Those would be the extreme > examples. > > But the middle class housewife who has everything she wants but " is > > not content " doesn't need to be popping Zoloft or Paxil every day. > > > > Tom > > Administrator > > > I think this describes me as well. One could call me depressed but I have also been told that my depression is warranted (happiness) is not a required state to live. and what makes a person happy doesn't have to be shopping and romance novels(reffering to the housewife cliche) But " therapist " will tell you to buy yourself something Disregarding your fiancial state. which in my case would make me more depressed to buy myself " something nice " It is a ridiculous assignment. and NT's don't get it. Find what makes you happy, or calm and if that thing is squirrels then watch them for 4 hours until you feel mentally rested and go on your way. Study them google them and get them to speak if you like but I am with Tom. Pills seem like forced happiness and that means brain alteration and I don't think that is what you want. I am Waaaaayyyy too stubborn to let a pill tell me what to do. I think if I took a perscription I would be more depressed. I was perscribed depression meds a while back (as you can read I didn't take them) But I do have the same approach that Tom does, on that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 > > " Depression is a part of my life and always will be and that when I > > feel my life unraveling, I must take a step back, retreat so to > > speak. I must let myself go through the deep angst I feel and then > > focus on what really matters most to me. " > > > > If it is a choice between experiencing life's events through my own > > eyes and being a happy person on anti-depressents, I'd choose the > > real me also. > > > > Really, I think taking pills for depression the way MOST people do > is > > somewhat dysfunctional. It's sort of like extending yourself beyond > > engineering tolerances rather than trying to change the events or > > shut people out that are causing the depression. > > > > Yes, some people need the pills. Those would be the extreme > examples. > > But the middle class housewife who has everything she wants but " is > > not content " doesn't need to be popping Zoloft or Paxil every day. > > > > Tom > > Administrator > > > I think this describes me as well. One could call me depressed but I have also been told that my depression is warranted (happiness) is not a required state to live. and what makes a person happy doesn't have to be shopping and romance novels(reffering to the housewife cliche) But " therapist " will tell you to buy yourself something Disregarding your fiancial state. which in my case would make me more depressed to buy myself " something nice " It is a ridiculous assignment. and NT's don't get it. Find what makes you happy, or calm and if that thing is squirrels then watch them for 4 hours until you feel mentally rested and go on your way. Study them google them and get them to speak if you like but I am with Tom. Pills seem like forced happiness and that means brain alteration and I don't think that is what you want. I am Waaaaayyyy too stubborn to let a pill tell me what to do. I think if I took a perscription I would be more depressed. I was perscribed depression meds a while back (as you can read I didn't take them) But I do have the same approach that Tom does, on that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 > > Even though I am experiencing an exceedingly difficult time in my > life, has asked me to consider answering this post. > > I think it's because most people here have heard me speak often about > the Law of Neutrality and about accountability in all aspects of life > that touch upon your own, directly and indirectly. > > > I hope this helps. Now back to my bubble. > > Raven > Co-Administrator > I would like to say that often an even seems horrendous, terrible, horrible and unbearable for a long time and that at some point in the future one accepts that that time made one whom they are in this time. So it was/is negative, and it now/will be positive. Like some crazy ledger system with bright ponts and dark points. I wish you warmpth Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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