Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 If you check the archives of the ME-List - there is a lot of info comparing ABA and TEACCH. My child, who is now seven, regressed with the TEACCH method and has made progress with ABA. TEACCH focuses on accomodating the autism and ABA focuses on overcoming it. Every child should get a chance to overcome their autism, but some won't for whatever reason. TEACCH might be appropriate for those who really need the accomodations. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 I sent this in private email but... a good link to read is from FEAT. It is Ivar Lovaas' comments: http://www.feat.org/lovaas/full.htm When I began my crash course in autism in 1999, I thought the autism world was " ABA versus Floortime " . I had a lot to learn about the politics of autism. It seems that a lot of misinformation about ABA is not coming from Greenspan but from TEACCH. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 Joy, Our experience was quite the opposite. Our son, now eleven, regressed with an ABA program and is doing very well under the TEACCH program. ABA focused on overcoming negative behaviors, while TEACCH focuses on finding and building on strengths. Every child should get a chance to build on their strengths. Autism is not a collection of behaviors, but a biological disease. [ ] ABA andTEACCH If you check the archives of the ME-List - there is a lot of info comparing ABA and TEACCH. My child, who is now seven, regressed with the TEACCH method and has made progress with ABA. TEACCH focuses on accomodating the autism and ABA focuses on overcoming it. Every child should get a chance to overcome their autism, but some won't for whatever reason. TEACCH might be appropriate for those who really need the accomodations. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 At 04:01 PM 9/22/02, Barbara Lee wrote: >Joy, >Our experience was quite the opposite. Our son, now eleven, regressed with >an ABA program and is doing very well under the TEACCH program. ABA >focused on overcoming negative behaviors, while TEACCH focuses on finding >and building on strengths. Every child should get a chance to build on >their strengths. Autism is not a collection of behaviors, but a >biological disease. Bear with me, I'm still struggling with a deep funk I can't shape off and horrible worry about my own son, and the state of his education, but I had to reply. I've always hated this arguement. It becomes both pointless, and also moot. Who cares if Autism is a biological disorder? That really has very little to do with what you do for intervention, IF your premise is to start where the child is, be reinforcing, be supportive and accomodate and instruct according to the needs of the student. If the adults working with any age person with autism or a related disorder are sensitive and intelligent, humane, and creative and are able to be flexible that alone can make a huge difference. Add in good training, understanding of learning and ways to teach skills that can be measured and you've got half the battle fought. At this point I would welcome some very well done TEACCH in my son's life, but not if it means tossing out the science of ABA. In fact well done TEACCH uses the principles of ABA as well from what I can see. I suspect most TEACCH programs are done poorly, as are most ABA programs under the school auspices. I realize there are exceptions and a handful of public schools actually care about the children they have in their care. At this stage in the game, I would rather have ethical, caring and HONEST people working with my kid in a school than the bogus people who do work in them. I am a solid, strong long time proponent of ABA. I also see many good ways to approach a problem that may not be VB oriented, but are based on sound principles. For instance I happen to like what's her names work that somebody expressed dismay about. Again, I would not want to see that be the only method to address a child's problems, but to dismiss it outright makes no sense. I also don't believe most kids regress with ABA. What I believe is some kids regress because of poor instruction, not getting at what motivates them and assisting them as needed and encouraging increased independence all the time. It's not easy to do. I can understand parents of kids under five years old believing VB cures all ills or that they can fix the problem and overcome autism. Partly because I have seen it with my own eyes, and partly because I believe autism is a condition with multiple etiologies and degrees of severity. That means some kids will not make enough progress on reinforcing, shaping and working on verbal operants to survive. If people insist on believing that than I can only hope you're kid is very well off, high functioning or recovered. (Which I really hope would happen for all who want it!) I do believe though to say that it's biological and talk about accomodating is a cop out if you stop there. Who knows what can be changed, learned and worked around, through, over and under. If you assume permanance you may get it, but if you hope and plan for change you will probably see it happen. Maybe in baby steps or giant steps or maybe in increments too small to be noted until you look back and remember back when and then, and it's different now and you never even saw it happening. Maybe we should use Behavior Analysis to look at what works and why, and remember each kid is their own person, not autism, but a kid who's effected in many different kinds of ways, and what works for one may not work for another. But never assume ABA failed anyone. Generally people did. Jennie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 Hi all These messages below are very revealing of our difficulty in comparing the methods ourselves. First: As far as I know, almost all up-to-date ABA programs focus on developing appropriate behaviors and new abilities. As far as I am concerned, any program that focuses on negative behaviors is at least 10 years out of date. If negative behaviors are getting in the way of learning, then strategies can be devised to avoid those behaviors until new appropriate behaviors are developed and replace the negative ones. One such strategy may be to use alot of structure with visual cues such as TEACCH does. I am sure that any excellent ABA therapist would do this if it is appropriate. Second: In an up-to-date TEACCH program run by competent people, a child should never regress (unless something physical happens). TEACCH programs are supposed to be tailored to the child and would use more behavioral methods if it is appropriate. They often use discrete trials to teach new abilities in 1-1 sessions. I will just remind you all that there advantages of both methods. Here is a post that I wrote in 1998 on the me-list that I think sums up the situation: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:05:05 -0500 From: Zwack <zwack.peter@...> ME-LIST@... Subject: Teacch vs Lovaas Dear Melisters I have followed all of the hot remarks about the TEACCH program and Mesibov's statements for some time and have not had time to get involved. I just thought I should put in my 2 cents to help clarify the differences in the philosophy of the TEACCH approach. I would like to use the analogy of someone who is physically disabled..let's say that they cannot walk. TEACCH provides a system like crutches to allow them to get around better but assumes that the handicap is permanent. ABA and discrete trials is like physiotherapy which tries to help the person use his legs better so that he doesn't need crutches at all. TEACCH does use ABA to teach autistic children to use crutches which are designed individually but usally based on the typical visual strengths of autistic individuals and their need for structure. TEACCH also adapts the environment as much as possible to the needs of the individual. It uses ABA if, in spite of all of the crutches, behavior problems arise. There are many people with autism, who unfortunately did not have early, intensive ABA and who are living happy, productive lives thanks to TEACCH. For them, it is a crutch that will be with them to their grave. Hopefully the TEACCH people, including Mesibov, will eventually accept the fact that it primordial to do as much intensive ABA as possible to minimize the use of the TEACCH crutch. However, I think that there still is significant group of autistic individuals which, even with early, intensive ABA, will require crutches throughout their lives and TEACCH is one of the best when done well. TEACCH certainly doesn't proclude continuing 1-1 ABA so that the individual could progress all during his life. It's just too bad that well-meaning people such as Mesibov and Lovaas have to fight amoung one another because of prestige and pride. Imagine Mesibov's reaction, being considered a world renowned clinician and researcher, who has been saying and truely believes that Autism is a life-long handicap (which it was almost 100% before Lovaas' ground-breaking work)and suddenly someone publishes results that have a 47% recovery. Your credibility as a researcher is shattered and you sincerely don't believe it. Well that is what happened. I hope my thoughts help out those of you who are new to this. My autistic son is now 17 and I have been going through all of this for years now and have a little perspective. Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:07:15 -0500 From: Zwack <zwack.peter@...> Subject: Re: TEACCH/VERSUS ABA/D.T. IN SCHOOLS Cate My son has been in TEACCH classes at school from the age of 12. The best of these classes worked together with us to develop communication skills as much as possible. They also provided opportunities for my son to practice new abilities that he learning at home through ABA. I would think that a really good TEACCH program would use ABA to help teach new skills and use the structure of TEACCH to help practice the new skills. I think that the TEACCH people are starting to hear that message. By the way, my autistic son (20) went to his future job today at a company that makes locks. He is interning to prepare for next year when he will no longer go to school. He works with 4 other people with intellectual handicaps. His 2 hours are structured using TEACCH visual schedules and he does everything very well with very little prompting. He even installs his schedule on the wall and all the equipment that goes with his job. What is great about the system is that when people and places change, he has no trouble because he can follow the schedule. Today he had a new educator and he taught her how the schedule works. He is also very proud of himself because he is able to hold down a job. PS My son now 21 works 5 mornings a week in that job thanks to a great TEACCH program at his job. We still use discrete trials, PECS, verbal behavior.....to improve his other skills. > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:01:08 -0400 > From: " Barbara Lee " <samcigar@...> >Subject: Re: ABA andTEACCH > >Joy, >Our experience was quite the opposite. Our son, now eleven, >regressed with an ABA program and is doing very well under the >TEACCH program. ABA focused on overcoming negative behaviors, while >TEACCH focuses on finding and building on strengths. Every child >should get a chance to build on their strengths. Autism is not a >collection of behaviors, but a biological disease. > [ ] ABA andTEACCH > > > If you check the archives of the ME-List - there is a lot of info comparing > ABA and TEACCH. My child, who is now seven, regressed with the TEACCH > method and has made progress with ABA. TEACCH focuses on accomodating the > autism and ABA focuses on overcoming it. Every child should get a chance to > overcome their autism, but some won't for whatever reason. TEACCH might be > appropriate for those who really need the accomodations. > > Joy > -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Zwack,Ph.D. Professor Professeur titulaire Directeur of Graduate Studies Directeur des cycles supérieurs in the Atmospheric Sciences en Sciences de l'atmosphère Department of Earth Département des Sciences de la Terre and Atmospheric Sciences et de l'atmosphère University of Quebec at Montreal Université du Québec à Montréal P.O.Box 8888, Stn " Downtown " B.P. 8888, Succ. " Centre-ville " Montreal,Quebec,H3C 3P8 Canada Montréal, (Québec) H3C 3P8 Canada Courier: Room PK-6125 Messagerie: Salle PK-6125 201 President Kennedy West 201, ouest Président Kennedy Montreal,Quebec,H2X 3Y7 Canada Montréal, (Québec) H2X 3Y7 Canada Office PK-2520 Bureau Office 1-514-987-3000ext3304# Bureau Fax 1-514-987-7749 Télécopieur E-Mail zwack.peter@... Adresse électronique Page Web Page http://people.sca.uqam.ca/~peter/peter_home.html ative | C | Centre Centre for | C | Coopératif pour la Research in | R | Recherche en Mesometeorology | M | Mésométéorologie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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