Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Girls, girls, girls... and gentlemen, too... My thighs hang there miserably. I still have extra skin hanging around my waist in back. But for Pete's sake, I look 1000% better than pre-op. I am so happy to be in " normal " sizes. I feel so darned good, and go around my apt. looking for something more to do to keep physically busy. I am so grateful. I refuse to cry wolf over a ore perfect body. If anyone sees me naked, it surely will be a medical person or else it will be someone who truly loves me and sees beyond skin. Please, please change your point of view. Stop seeking something else. Stop wanting. Stop putting yourself down. Brains and personality are so much more important. I love you all - just the way you are! Bobbe Bobbe - <128 pounds> from 268.5 at DS 3/12/03. Highest weight 285 in '98 <145> Don't postpone joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I can't honestly say that I am 100% happy with where I am simply because I am thinner than I was....I still feel that some plumpness is more attractive on me then all the angles and jutting bones are! And yes, the scars and sagging skin are an issue at times, but it is an issue that is improving day by day..... No, my post-ds and TT body is not what I expected, and dealing with that has not always been easy. And dealing with the many changes in my thoughts and feelings has been hard as well. My brain and body are still at battle sometimes but I know in time I will see what others do! Some days I look in the mirror and I still see that 252 pound person looking back at me and some days I see a scrawny little person with saggy skin, but I am having more days now that I look in the mirror and all I see is a beautiful 37 year old woman with rosy cheeks and some lifelines and battle scars who is healhier and happier than she has been in many years! The good days far outnumber the bad! I have accepted the fact that I will never have a picture perfct body, and I don't want or expect one, but still, the changes that HAVE taken place are so dramatic to me that it has taken a lot of time to adjust.....and I am still working on it! I do feel so much better physically and emotionally then I did before, wearing normal sizes, being able to wear a bathing suit or shorts and not feeling like the elephant in the china shop is wonderful! If only our self image could be fixed as easily as our weight problems were......but I try to remember that today I am happy, healthy, and blessed to be where I am...and that is what matters! I don't want or seek anything more than I am today...I am where I want to be physically, now if I can just get there emotionally! I just want to be able to see what others see, and feel more comfortable in my own skin ALL THE TIME, not just part of the time, and that simply will take more time! Cindee > Girls, girls, girls... and gentlemen, too... > My thighs hang there miserably. I still have extra skin hanging around > my waist in back. But for Pete's sake, I look 1000% better than pre-op. > I am so happy to be in " normal " sizes. I feel so darned good, and go > around my apt. looking for something more to do to keep physically busy. > I am so grateful. I refuse to cry wolf over a ore perfect body. If > anyone sees me naked, it surely will be a medical person or else it will > be someone who truly loves me and sees beyond skin. Please, please > change your point of view. Stop seeking something else. Stop wanting. > Stop putting yourself down. Brains and personality are so much more > important. > I love you all - just the way you are! Bobbe > > Bobbe - <128 pounds> from 268.5 at DS 3/12/03. Highest weight 285 in > '98 <145> Don't postpone joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 " Now I'm not advocating BAD self-image, nearly the opposite, and is just a question of how prevalent it is in ASD persons. I do advocate (though not force on others, sheesh!) good sensible thinking of " yes, I make mistakes " " but I am not a bad person as I do try hard to do things correctly " . I hope that these notes come across correctly. " I think that many Aspies do have a bad self image that stems from our parents or caregivers or guardians telling us we are strange even as they accept the strangness of other people. I can tell you where some of my bad self-image came from: I have seen my parents compliment behaviors in other people that they have persecuted in me. I deemed this hypocrisy to be a deliberate and reccuring attack simply because I could find no justification for it. Now that I understand how NTs work, I know that they did not like the behaviors the other person had at all. They were just pretending to like those behaviors in order to maintain friendships with him. Of course if I were to tell them this I would get yelled at for it. It took me a long time to accept myself. I think that came to happen by carefully studying NT psychology and seeing that Aspie psychology is in many ways advantageous to have and superior in many cases. We do have our deficiencies, but I cannot imagine being as hypocritical as NTs, nor would I want to be that hypocritical. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Previously I think I have been very self critical, although I had many people around me who were critical of me. I now try to be more realistic and see if it is something that I am really responsible for, or whether another is just trying to project something onto me, or for that matter myself projecting it onto myself. I do take into consideration what I consider my faults and try to work/solve such bugs in the system :-) Also I have joked previously about if something can go wrong it will, especially for me. In a way I don't consider this overly negative thinking, just often things do go wrong and I like to be prepared, as in plan for the worst, hope for the best. > > I just read a report on Autism Link newsletter where a child was going > through Neural Feedback therapy (something I'm familiar with and how it can > help). > > The child while the therapy was going on 'changed his self-image and felt > better about himself' (not exact quote) which had me wondering about that > aspect of us Aspies. > > I know of the self-image problems of people with disabilities which is > forced upon ourselves (I have a few disabilities myself, and was into > advocacy) so there is that BUT I'm wondering about Aspie ( & Autism in > general) persons (any age) having a bad self-image " naturally " as a " born > with " function rather than taught by bad parents (which I did have). > > It sounded like the child was naturally self-critical through the common > OCPD (Obsessive / Compulsive Personality Disorder - an old diagnosis of mine > before the Aspie discovery & diagnosis) as we are noticing our behavior " as > bad " and therefore taking ourselves down a notch. > > Is it common? And therefore a part of our condition (both good and bad) > which is then handled and hopefully in time " reversed " ? > > A note: the good side of " poor self image " as it is labeled is that as > Aspies we are looking at ourselves " in the mirror " and seeing where we are > making mistakes and are doing something wrong when it is common (these days > especially) where NT's don't pay attention to their own actions and don't > realize their own bad behavior (fast & reckless driving & law breaking for > example). > > I also had two components, as I recently realized, of our " bad " self-image > problem. One is the negative self putting downs ( " I'm not ok, but you are " > a reverse of the current trend of " I'm perfect, you suck " attitudes - terms > derived from the 1970's " I'm ok, your not ok " psychology books). The other > is a good one as I try to describe it and no one gets it. It's a " laughing > at oneself " humor, like a " I trip, I fall, I laugh at my so called > clumsiness, like 'oh, my, I am so clumsy' " that some people do in a harmless > way. > > In my case it's a self observation of my behavior that has been going on all > my life as I learned how to understand behavior through Psychology classes > in High School and Business College. I make jokes about how things seem to > go bad for me all the time. Like my asset in Quality Assurance. > > I think I can say it here on the list server as an illustration: > > I have " Randy's variation of 's Law: everything that can go wrong, > will go wrong. And it certainly does for me. " . People, it's a JOKE! > 's Law (you know your old if your remember THAT! And it's posters!) > was a joke, not serious! It's a funny look at coincidences and things that > happen in life. Yet when I talk about it, it always seems to come across as > self-depreciation. Bah! > > It's an asset in my case as it does NOT bring down my feelings but is how I > explain how I am such a TREMENDOUS (yes, I do have a substantial Ego > problem!) ability to find defects in something I'm using or testing that > most won't find. So as a result when a product (software is my specialty > though current unemployed) is put through my insidious tests, it will come > out " bug free " (if the manager allows most all of the reproducible bugs to > be fixed)! > > One wonders how someone can build a jet airplane fuel tank with an > electrical problem that sets off a fire or explosion crashing the plane? > NOT everyone has my talent, to say the least is the answer. Plus most > employers won't hire or keep the disabled hired that work harder, especially > us Aspies. > > Now I'm not advocating BAD self-image, nearly the opposite, and is just a > question of how prevalent it is in ASD persons. I do advocate (though not > force on others, sheesh!) good sensible thinking of " yes, I make mistakes " > " but I am not a bad person as I do try hard to do things correctly " . I hope > that these notes come across correctly. > > Anyway, why am I having a hard time describing the sensible thinking and > feelings I have that I learned over the decades?! ;-) Any who... > > All in all, it's " Hey baby, that's life!! " (smile!) > > Randy Garrett > Antioch, CA USA > -----<---{(@ > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008 > 5:02 PM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Along the same line of these posts, I caught the tail end of a program last night. That program was called "Hog Genius." The program was a study of the intelligence of pigs. The end part that I saw had an interesting study. Some veterinary scientists wanted to see what effect early trauma had on the developing brain of pigs, and thus potentially humans. I'm not sure how they "traumatized" the pigs because I missed some of that, but they did mention that one of the pigs had been weaned prematurely at 3 weeks of age. The results were that those piglets were more fearful, had memory and thinking problems, and were more needlessly aggressive. The one test that I saw was one where they put a normal pig in a tub of water with a hidden platform in it. The pig swam around and found the platform. In tests repeated every 10 minutes after that, the pig went straight to the platform. When the traumatized pig was brought it, it just panicked right away trying to climb out of the pool and even when it bumped into the platform it didn't get on it. That pig never learned the location of the platform nor did it really search for it. If this holds true for humans, too, and I have read other studies that show trauma at a young age affects the mind, as does poor diet and starvation, then it could explain a lot. This could explain why the cycle of violence, poor academic achievement and so on is so hard to break in poor areas, especially those with heavy government support. I have not seen any studies as to how long trauma can affect the brain. However, the human brain is malleable well into the teens, early 20's for the smarter people. So, it could be that school age bullying could adversely affect people, especially the smart ones, the ones we need most. If bullying can indeed hurt their very brains all the way through high school, it is all the more reason to separate them out from the rest like we used to in college prep schools. I was going to rant a little, but decided against it. The point is that if the brain is affected by trauma, then perhaps some of our problems are based on actual or personally perceived trauma by others. I certainly know I would be more sociable if it hadn't been for all the bad experiences at the hands of my peers. In a message dated 3/30/2008 1:31:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: "Now I'm not advocating BAD self-image, nearly the opposite, and is just a question of how prevalent it is in ASD persons. I do advocate (though not force on others, sheesh!) good sensible thinking of "yes, I make mistakes" "but I am not a bad person as I do try hard to do things correctly". I hope that these notes come across correctly."I think that many Aspies do have a bad self image that stems from our parents or caregivers or guardians telling us we are strange even as they accept the strangness of other people. I can tell you where some of my bad self-image came from: I have seen my parents compliment behaviors in other people that they have persecuted in me. I deemed this hypocrisy to be a deliberate and reccuring attack simply because I could find no justification for it. Now that I understand how NTs work, I know that they did not like the behaviors the other person had at all. They were just pretending to like those behaviors in order to maintain friendships with him. Of course if I were to tell them this I would get yelled at for it. It took me a long time to accept myself. I think that came to happen by carefully studying NT psychology and seeing that Aspie psychology is in many ways advantageous to have and superior in many cases. We do have our deficiencies, but I cannot imagine being as hypocritical as NTs, nor would I want to be that hypocritical.Administrator Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 That's true. I've been learning things too lately from people with first hand experiences. My mother is working with a trainee teacher who has done classes in public schools. She says that the kids come to school dirty, half-clothed, unfed and with no supplies, in the main. Some of them don't even bother, even in the lower grades, and just sleep all day. Others have no respect for the teachers and look for ways to provoke them. For example, one refused to leave the pencil sharpener and when the teacher put a hand on the kid's shoulder, the kid said the teacher scratched their face. Then there are the ones who find school a safe place compared to home. Imaging the trauma and mistreatment those kids are coming from, and probably that their parent's came from, it is little wonder there is so much trouble. When I used to watch the COPS program, thinking back on it there is little wonder also that bullies imitate what they learn from home. If the family is always fighting, especially physically fighting, food quality is questionable and so on, it only makes sense that they couldn't help but turn out to be brutes. I'm not sure that "weaning from communication" so much as it is that they are in a poor communications environment to begin with and that they never had any kind of positive bonding. It is also possible that they might have had positive bonding with one person, but that person was bullied and so were they. Thus they still became bullies out of a defensive need. Still, it seems to me that nurture is playing a larger part than genetics in most of these cases. Then again, if those who can flee such a lifestyle, then that means the brutes will remain and more successfully reproduce and pass on the brute genes. Accelerate this a few generations, particularly since the generation might be only 12 or 14 years, and you concentrate both the genes and poor nurturing environment. So, it is culture and biology. In a message dated 3/30/2008 5:13:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: Studies show that bullies themselves are most likely to come from homes where communication between parent and child is poor and where there is a weak bond of love between parent and child. In a very real sense, children who have been "weaned" too early from communication and a bond of love turn out to be bullies a high percentage of the time. This information has been elaborated upon in the Midnight In Chicago Autism and Bullying podcasts. Administrator Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I don't remember much from my youth either. However, I do remember being on my own most of the time. Friends were rarely over because none lived near me, the neighborhood being more a of a retirement area with older childless couples. The other memories are of the parents busy with other things or sleeping or whatever. This was pretty much the same at the grandparent's too. It really wasn't fun to go up there because I wasn't allowed out of the house alone until I was about 12, so it was spending most of the day being bored out of my mind as the adults either were at work, sleeping or watching soap operas. I was an only child, so I never had the blame the brother thing. Now, I did have friends who had brothers. They would do bad things and blame me for it. I got in trouble a lot because of that, until enough of the neighbors figured out what the brothers were all about. Still, that turned into a bad scene later, as I have pointed out before. My mother was extremely weird. I don't remember much of anything from myyouth (just images of places) so I can't analyze what went on or rememberwho said what, etc.Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 My mother was extremely weird. I don't remember much of anything from my youth (just images of places) so I can't analyze what went on or remember who said what, etc. However the had what I call " Helen M Garrett Syndrome " . Every time I had done something good she would say " Jeff (my brother) did it " and if my brother did something bad (which he did A LOT) she would say " Randy did it " . My brother was 2 years younger than me but dominated my life and in some ways my mothers as well though not controlling her. Mom had it so bad that it was contagious to her friends who kept getting our deeds confused. " Wasn't it Jeff who was at the hospital? " , no it was me, Jeff NEVER visited her or dad at the hospital or dad at the care homes. We do somewhat look alike but far from twins and saying or hearing that makes me twinge badly. Psychologically we are so totally different. Right now as a continuation of his bad behavior he is a fugitive who skipped out on a trial for his accosting a minor! Made me yell expletives on the phone when the P.I. called to ask what I know about him and where he is. We've been estranged for decades. I tried to offer a " olive branch " of peace to him on the day mom died (I have been living with her all my life except for a few attempts to live on my own). So what he did was claim that all of mom's estate was to be his AND most of my possessions as well! He also stole a lot from her things that day behind my back, things then deteriorated and now mom's ashes sit in a box on a shelf in storage at the funeral home because of his bad behavior and constant manipulation and decision changes during the entire process. Everyone who came in contact with him recently has said how screwed up he is. Oy! It's a long list of bad things he has done all his life, some of which mom blamed on me! It was the first of my being taken advantage of, conned out of money and things (cars, computers, etc.) by many people over the last 5 years. I'm still suspicious of my current roommate (share rental, 7 year wait for subsidized) simply out of paranoia from what has happened. Boy were we ever a totally weird family! Dad was deaf but refused to allow ASL in the house, etc., he broke his back in '69 and became a prescription pill addict. People said he was stupid and insane but I knew he was intelligent and sane but was loosing control from the pills. Before the accident it was mainly (as well as afterwards) from his hearing impairment and peoples moronic interpretation of his reactions simply because he did not hear and understand what they said. Mom and my brother have normal hearing. Dad and I had near deafness (mine is 80 decibel loss, dad's I don't know). FYI Mom died 9/12/2002, Dad Christmas 1999. Both left me disturbed from how dad died and the timing of Moms' (9/11 anniversary). Mom and my brother both said " counselors and Psychiatrists are insane " and refused to seek care. Mom objected (I think) to my getting counseling (they taught me " strange things " aka NORMAL behavior!) when I was young but the schools & others got me it. Examine ANY family in extreme depth and many abnormalities can be found compared to a so-called " normal or NT " behavior standard. I believe that doctors and others are taught (and forgot!) that " normal " is not fully achievable but just a medical and Psychological standard for comparison and a set of 'goals' to achieve. My, my, don't I talk a lot!!! LOL! Randy Garrett Antioch, CA USA -----<---{(@ Re: Self-Image " Now I'm not advocating BAD self-image, nearly the opposite, and is just a question of how prevalent it is in ASD persons. I do advocate (though not force on others, sheesh!) good sensible thinking of " yes, I make mistakes " " but I am not a bad person as I do try hard to do things correctly " . I hope that these notes come across correctly. " I think that many Aspies do have a bad self image that stems from our parents or caregivers or guardians telling us we are strange even as they accept the strangness of other people. I can tell you where some of my bad self-image came from: I have seen my parents compliment behaviors in other people that they have persecuted in me. I deemed this hypocrisy to be a deliberate and reccuring attack simply because I could find no justification for it. Now that I understand how NTs work, I know that they did not like the behaviors the other person had at all. They were just pretending to like those behaviors in order to maintain friendships with him. Of course if I were to tell them this I would get yelled at for it. It took me a long time to accept myself. I think that came to happen by carefully studying NT psychology and seeing that Aspie psychology is in many ways advantageous to have and superior in many cases. We do have our deficiencies, but I cannot imagine being as hypocritical as NTs, nor would I want to be that hypocritical. Administrator ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Our website is here: http://www.geocities.com/environmental1st2003/FAM_Secret_Society.html and you may add to it on this page: http://www.geocities.com/environmental1st2003/Main6.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 " If this holds true for humans, too, and I have read other studies that show trauma at a young age affects the mind, as does poor diet and starvation, then it could explain a lot. This could explain why the cycle of violence, poor academic achievement and so on is so hard to break in poor areas, especially those with heavy government support. " I have not seen any studies as to how long trauma can affect the brain. However, the human brain is malleable well into the teens, early 20's for the smarter people. So, it could be that school age bullying could adversely affect people, especially the smart ones, the ones we need most. If bullying can indeed hurt their very brains all the way through high school, it is all the more reason to separate them out from the rest like we used to in college prep schools. " Studies show that bullies themselves are most likely to come from homes where communication between parent and child is poor and where there is a weak bond of love between parent and child. In a very real sense, children who have been " weaned " too early from communication and a bond of love turn out to be bullies a high percentage of the time. This information has been elaborated upon in the Midnight In Chicago Autism and Bullying podcasts. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 " Examine ANY family in extreme depth and many abnormalities can be found compared to a so-called " normal or NT " behavior standard. I believe that doctors and others are taught (and forgot!) that " normal " is not fully achievable but just a medical and Psychological standard for comparison and a set of 'goals' to achieve. " My family is screwed up in a lot of ways. My mother is an alcoholic, and she, like your mom, tends to have a selective memory, attributing funny things I said to other people, and attributing mostly negative things I did or did not do to me. Her memory is waning with age, and she is not that old. I believe it is the number of brain cells that she has pickled that is causing this to happen. As for what you said above, I think one problem that most psychologists and psychiatrists do NOT identify readily enough is that most people screen their oddities, strange behaviors, and addictions from shrinks. Most of them have no idea what really goes on in the home. For NTs, going to a shrink is like going church. They are on their best behavior. When they get on, they shrug off the good clothes, put on the dumpy ones, and get comfortable. The second thing that NTs do is hypnotize their therapists. People can tend to make a lot of big things seem much smaller if they space them out over a long period of time, and downplay their significance. Thus a " normal " person by this rose tinted definition seems to be someone who has comparatively slight problems every once in a while. Psychologists think we AS people, on the other hand, are crazy because we tend to open up sooner, revealing all that we are straight on, the result being that they (the therapists) receive too much input all at once, rather than the tiny bit they get over a long time like they get from the NTs. So they rule US as the weird ones who are in need of help. Personally, I do not see how AS people who honestly open up and tell it like it is can be in such dire help when NTs hide all their skeletons in the closet and smile at the psychologist even as they lean against the door to keep it from spilling what's inside out onto the floor. It really is insane. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 > > so there is that BUT I'm wondering about Aspie ( & Autism in general) persons (any age) having a bad self-image " naturally " as a " born with " function rather than taught by bad parents (which I did have). It sounded like the child was naturally self-critical through the common OCPD (Obsessive / Compulsive Personality Disorder - an old diagnosis of mine before the Aspie discovery & diagnosis) as we are noticing our behavior " as bad " and therefore taking ourselves down a notch. Both Ravi and I have this. My own parents were very very abusive. I find it hard to assert in person, and avoid most conflict. My son that is seven (I have never once said he was bad; because of my own upbringing i was very careful how i spoke to him even if he acted out or hit me. I would say that hitting hurt and i was sad, and i tried to teach him about the pain of others everytime he was uncomfortable (not in that moment) but to use it as a reference. even with all my cautions Ravi will call himself a loser or say he is bad, when he has done something wrong and he will even send himself to his room. He always wants to be hugged afterward (he is not intentionally violent, and has not hit anyone for 3 years or so) But he does this thing and it worries me. My daughter used to wish herself dead at seven (that floored me, and it made me do whatever would make her spirits lift) Her father has depression, and she seems much better but she scared me for some years. Anyway. I have heard of many ASD children self abusing. Mostly I think it is a communication dissconnect. I always tell Ravi it is ok and he isn't a loser(it is just a reason to try harder and choose differently) In my case addressing that I sometimes need assistance and I don't do a thing well on a consistant basis is a sefety net. I think we get so much noise we can't even figure ourselves out(at least I don't) Eg I get lost in malls (so I bring a keeper if i have to go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 " Imagine the trauma and mistreatment those kids are coming from, and probably that their parent's came from, it is little wonder there is so much trouble. " I want to know WHY it happens though. You canhave someone be in the most dire straights, but there is NO REASON for someone to just decide that they are going to mistreat their kid. Don't the people raising up these bullies have any conception of what they are doing and that they are responsible for it? Don't they have any common sense? In my house, if you acted out of turn you got hammered. This was so that you did not grow up to be a bad person. You'd think everyone in the world would have a similar philosophy, but I guess that is too much to hope for. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 > > " Imagine the trauma and mistreatment those kids are coming from, and > probably that their parent's came from, it is little wonder there is so > much trouble. " > > I want to know WHY it happens though. You canhave someone be in the > most dire straights, but there is NO REASON for someone to just decide > that they are going to mistreat their kid. Don't the people raising up > these bullies have any conception of what they are doing and that they > are responsible for it? Don't they have any common sense? > > In my house, if you acted out of turn you got hammered. This was so > that you did not grow up to be a bad person. You'd think everyone in > the world would have a similar philosophy, but I guess that is too much > to hope for. > > > Administrator > I weas thinking this morning that Aspies as a group seem more tribal (I am looking for yea or ney confermation) It seems to me that we respect authority. Eg knowledge of history, Raven's personal and professional knowledge (too many to list) Tom's advocacy, artwork, business bank knowledge. I am not listing everything but we trust the members of our tribe to know their own area. Further, the raising of children sees to have more of a tribe mentality. A general agreement of what is desired and upheld. I keep thinking of an indian tribe with elders and central figures, but unlike typical society this isn't so one individual can lord it over the group. this is for the benefit of the group that people have different skill sets and can add to the experience's of the group (perhaps like fire stories) I know there was a discussion a long time ago about the nature of Aspies being a throwback or a new age. Perhaps Tom's idea was right. Perhaps we are a throwback but one that is also necessary in the new age. These are the things I think in the shower (one of the few places I am truly alone, and can think) I also run over the last several threads in my mind and think what I could have done differently. (in my head I think I should apologise about my over zealous desire to talk about kim's dreams) A topic I happen to really like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 It has been observed that society has many ills these days. A crude common example is the " push " to look like a Barbie doll. Everyone complains about everything and everyone which is published so heavily and there is even more of it from the internet. One persons rant gets read by many. I see it a lot in the online forums on computers (latest I've read is about Creative's audio cards, somewhat true from my experience but none the less). So many sources (news, radio, TV shows, etc.) do whole exposé's on a minor flaw in an time demanding a recall of all of them when in the past it would be ignored. They exaggerate ONE person finding a piece of plastic in her yogurt so ALL of the yogurt products are recalled. Oh, I get into it too getting my dander up about crap in my food too, it is in a way legitimate. But it's an example of how there is so much demand to be " perfect " as any minor problem is going to be exposed! If a pimple shows up on a President's face, they do a whole news day story on how it effects the nations politics and how disastrous it is for the U.S. Um, a pimple? So we all see and even pass on the critical nature of finding flaws in everything and everyone. Wait a minute, you mean the world is NOT perfect, my God! What a revelation (grin). But oh you haven't heard me rant on about the imperfections I find which makes me a great quality assurance person for a company so it's products can be near perfect (aka, less buggy than most software these days, sheesh). So all of us are bombarded with it which is taken in heavily and added to it by persons in the Autism spectrum. But what I hate the most is that it is nearly impossible to change. How can one change all of societies attitudes? " Filter " the content, why heck, that smacks of censorship! It is a conflict, censorship is bad (I agree wholeheartedly) but without it and without restraint by everyone we have chaos. So we have to work hard to overcome the bombardment of negativity (related to my earlier " I'm perfect, you suck " label) and help one another feel better (the Autism Spectrum person) and have better self-esteem. " It's ok to screw up " , while monitoring to be sure it doesn't go out of hand like vandalism or bullying. Of course while holding back Ego problems like I have / had. And I did go the " be like NT's " and just make mistakes, it's normal and ok. So I did and went broke as a result. It's a nightmarish balance a person has to have in self control and discipline to be a better person (in general, not related to Asperger's). A note: I have studied and learned all my life to strive to simply be a better persons learning many self-discipline subjects though I've never gone to live in a Buddhist retreat to meditate for a year or any such thing. I have had some Psychology classes that gave me the basics but mainly I've absorbed a ton of self-improvement stuff realistically. Self-help Guru crap is NOT realistic even if the teacher was successful because the audience interprets what is taught without feedback and can get it very wrong which is why I think all self-help, get rich quick, and other paid seminars are crap yet I think I should do one myself (geared towards Aspies) as I have learned so much and can engineer it quite well. But it still will be crap. I can explain that later on... Anyhow, never mind all this " it has to be perfect " stuff and just try to keep it real, DON'T allow the feeling of " I'm bad " sink in BUT do look at one's own actions (yea, this email may qualify as a 'problem', error, whatever. -grin-) to see the mistakes and errors and correct them so as to not fall into the rut of not seeing ones own errors such as exhibited on the road. Bad drivers are a pet peeve, it's common for most all to think they are great drivers and it's the others who suck, literally blaming the little old lady for crossing the road while the speed down it at twice the speed limit!!! Randy Garrett Antioch, CA USA -----<---{(@ Yet another Ad Hoc writing by the Great and Wonderful Randolph The Magnificent (who is such a screw up, oy!) ;-) One can be both, can't one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 " ...about my over zealous desire to talk about kim's dreams) A topic I happen to really like. " You are not the only one, I personally find dreams fascinating too :-) > > > > " Imagine the trauma and mistreatment those kids are coming from, > and > > probably that their parent's came from, it is little wonder there > is so > > much trouble. " > > > > I want to know WHY it happens though. You canhave someone be in the > > most dire straights, but there is NO REASON for someone to just > decide > > that they are going to mistreat their kid. Don't the people raising > up > > these bullies have any conception of what they are doing and that > they > > are responsible for it? Don't they have any common sense? > > > > In my house, if you acted out of turn you got hammered. This was so > > that you did not grow up to be a bad person. You'd think everyone > in > > the world would have a similar philosophy, but I guess that is too > much > > to hope for. > > > > > > Administrator > > > I weas thinking this morning that Aspies as a group seem more tribal > (I am looking for yea or ney confermation) It seems to me that we > respect authority. Eg knowledge of history, Raven's > personal and professional knowledge (too many to list) Tom's > advocacy, artwork, business bank knowledge. I am not listing > everything but we trust the members of our tribe to know their own > area. Further, the raising of children sees to have more of a tribe > mentality. A general agreement of what is desired and upheld. I > keep thinking of an indian tribe with elders and central figures, but > unlike typical society this isn't so one individual can lord it over > the group. this is for the benefit of the group that people have > different skill sets and can add to the experience's of the group > > (perhaps like fire stories) I know there was a discussion a long > time ago about the nature of Aspies being a throwback or a new age. > Perhaps Tom's idea was right. Perhaps we are a throwback but one > that is also necessary in the new age. These are the things I think > in the shower (one of the few places I am truly alone, and can think) > > I also run over the last several threads in my mind and think what I > could have done differently. (in my head I think I should apologise > about my over zealous desire to talk about kim's dreams) > > A topic I happen to really like. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Unfortunately society has lost the good parts of the " old values " by way of the Generation Gap that spread amongst the nation. Children ignored their parents lessons (but imitated the cussing, etc.!). Then the exaggeration of the " beating up a child " into zero tolerance like overreacting to a relatively harmless discipline (whatever that may be). Simple spankings were turned into " beating the crap out of the child " while ignoring parents who WERE abusing their child in a miss placed focus. In a way overreacting to mild 'abuse' (changing into a major crime like murder in the news stories) or discipline causes, psychologically, a feeling in a parent (seeing all that news) of " I'm going to be damned anyway so I might as well go ALL THE WAY " . And not believing in punishment from God, going to church, and other old ways also has reduced substantially what helped people keep in line. And the over promotion of " coloring outside of the lines " as conformance was bad. NOT everyone was conforming to a harmful point. It HAD it's good point. And so on with the substantial changes in society. Now it's all really confusing. It is so ill defined. In the news a person " goes to jail " for carrying a plastic knife in his lunch box yet at another school a child was killed on or near campus by a gun. (a limited illustration of the irrational concept) If you take Psychology you would understand what I learned and mean. We threw out the good with the bad when we tossed the " old ways " due to the bad parts. Where is the connection between teaching a child proper behavior and segregation and discrimination of minorities?! I can't say my mother (and my younger brother!) taking a switch to me was good, but I still learned how and WHY to behave in a certain way. There is a way, but it is beyond the capabilities of most people (takes a Genius to walk that line!). So lets keep paddling (recruits, college pledges, whatever) but don't even raise your voice to your child! Oh, and let the bullies beat the crap out of him while your at it! Sheesh. I do know (vaguely) of good working methods to help a child (even the worst) without spankings and locking up in a room. Confused anyone? (grin) Randy Garrett Antioch, CA USA -----<---{(@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 " I was thinking this morning that Aspies as a group seem more tribal (I am looking for yea or ney confermation) " In this particular group it does seem tribal, but that is because I have made the group to be that way. I have cast out those who were trouble makers, and who talk about topics that cause consternation. Also, only Aspies (either diagnosed or self-diagnosed) are allowed here. No NTs. If you go to a bigger board like, say, WrongPlanet, you have as mix of everyone and you have utter chaos. There is just as much squabbling and disorder over there as you are apt to find in society in general. Personally, I much prefer it here. " It seems to me that we respect authority. " I think we respect authority provided the authority in question is responsible and not abusive. Respect that Aspies have for authority must be earned by the person who has the authority. I do not follow leaders blindly and I do not think other Aspies do either. " Eg knowledge of history, Raven's personal and professional knowledge (too many to list) Tom's advocacy, artwork, business bank knowledge. " We are all resources. I would not say that we are authorities per se, unless you factor in the lack of knowledge NTs in similar positions have by comparison. " Further, the raising of children sees to have more of a tribe mentality. " Go over to the bigger boards though and you will have as many people believing that group sex and illegal drugs and alcohol usage ought to start in junior high as you will people who agree with the belief systems expressed here. " A general agreement of what is desired and upheld. " True, although in the past, and also in the Family Forum, I have had to map out some rules precisely. NTs in particular seem to need this, whereas Aspies -true Aspies and not trolls- seem to err on the side of caution so as not to rock the boat. " I keep thinking of an indian tribe with elders and central figures, but unlike typical society this isn't so one individual can lord it over the group. this is for the benefit of the group that people have different skill sets and can add to the experience's of the group> " I am reading posts in order, so I do not know whether or not Raven has responded, but I think she can address this issue better than I. Nevertheless, I should think a chief in a tribe is less of a boss than he or she (yes, there can be female chiefs) a facilitator who tries to keep the peace, keep everyone in agreement, and try to bring everyone around to a consensus about what is best for the tribe. Combine that with wisdom to make sure the tribe does not go astray, and I think this is how a chief ought to be. In reading literature about pirates I have noticed that pirating was a very democratic enterprise, with the spoils being divided according to rank. The captain's job was to try and get as much loot as possible by stealth and cunning rather than brute force. A captain that got a bunch of people killed, or who ruled by the sword was apt to get deposed. There were much more depositions in pirating than it Native American tribes if memory serves. Here, I am in charge along with the co-admins. But for all that, the atmosphere I am trying to maintain here would be most like that you would find if I had invited you into my own house. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 " Self-help Guru crap is NOT realistic even if the teacher was successful because the audience interprets what is taught without feedback and can get it very wrong which is why I think all self- help, get rich quick, and other paid seminars are crap yet I think I should do one myself (geared towards Aspies) as I have learned so much and can engineer it quite well. " I have watched a lot of self-help shows, paticularly the Wayne Dyer shows during PBS subscription drives. Supposedly these people have caused " thousands " of others to help themselves out of depression. My impression, however, is that most of the people who are " helped " are weak-minded. They cannot think of their own solutions and so they put their faith in others, who basically spend about four hours telling people to lighten up, eat healthy, and reduce stress. Well, duh! For anyone to REALLY improve themselves or their situation, they need to examine their lives and their persons closely, see things they had rather not see, admit to things they had rather not admit to, and embrace the parts the may not lile and eliminated the parts they really REALLY don't like. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I agree. Most of the self-help stuff, particularly the video and audio types work for a while because you can get hyped up by the speaker. It wears off though and the difficulties come back You are right about the self-examination, but there can also be an underlying chemical imbalance in the brain that causes things like depression. That may need to be corrected first so the person can move on and make adjustments. This need not be permanent and most people on anti-depressants usually get off of the drugs after a time. In a message dated 4/1/2008 12:50:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: For anyone to REALLY improve themselves or their situation, they need to examine their lives and their persons closely, see things they had rather not see, admit to things they had rather not admit to, and embrace the parts the may not lile and eliminated the parts they really REALLY don't like. AdministratorCreate a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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