Re: More proof autism is genetic

[Guest guest]

" I found this posted on another autism list server and thought I would

share. "

" AGRE is a program of the organization Autism Speaks, which will make

the genetic dataset accessible to researchers worldwide, CHOP said. "

Yes. Just keep in mind that the science here is obsolete. It is more or

less part of Autism Speaks' slow and methodical plan to develop a in-

utero genetic test for autism so that parents can abort kids who test

positive for the autistic gene variants. Then the slaughter can start

on a global scale far surpassing anything the Nazis were able to

achieve with the Jews. Millions upon millions of autistics dead.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Im just playing the devil's advocate, but would it be possible that

both sides are wrong? If autism could be caused by either, that would

seem to fit the data to some extent. However, I'm not a neurologist or

microbiologist.

[Guest guest]

" Im just playing the devil's advocate, but would it be possible that

both sides are wrong? If autism could be caused by either, that would

seem to fit the data to some extent. However, I'm not a neurologist or

microbiologist. "

Scientists have already identified the majority of the genes which

cause autism, thus there is no need for research to embark on other

paths.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

You also do not know how to read research data and its conclusions

although you are an interesting devil's advocate to some extent.

The genetitics of Autism is factual and correct.

Your position is like saying that sugar causes Diabetes. While sugar

most assuredly will exacerbate diabetes that has not yet been

diagnosed, this does not mean that sugar caused it.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> Im just playing the devil's advocate, but would it be possible that

> both sides are wrong? If autism could be caused by either, that would

> seem to fit the data to some extent. However, I'm not a neurologist or

> microbiologist.

>

[Guest guest]

Good, Zoe. And while you're at it, tell both those groups that

Chelation doesn't work either.

So are you indirectly saying that you agree with Autism Speaks, DAN

Dcotors and such?

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> I'll break the news to DAN and AS....

>

[Guest guest]

Autism is genetic. I think the severity of symptoms are exacerabated

by outside agents, that should be explored as it has an effect on

functioning. Genetically, you can draw a strait line from my

grandfather, to my father, to me, to my son. On the other side you can

point a strait line from my grandmothers digestive issues to my father

to me to my son. Both deserve to be delt with as real. The issue is

the application of finding and the false perceptions that come out of

them that do the most damage. AS likely gave me " gifts " reasoning

ability, standards, my view of the world in a sense was shaped by AS.

But my gut issues, make life a horror. In my son's case it messed with

his cognitive development (competing issues) The body opts for

survival, IQ is not part of survival consideration. This is where

things get clouded in all the debates. One thing causing a reaction in

another, suseptibility, epigenetics. The list goes on. mimi

[Guest guest]

Raven, directly and indirectly I disagree with Idiots Speak.

Admittedly, I need to actually get the data in the first place...

[Guest guest]

The data has been posted in this forum a number of times. What exactly

are you looking for because I'm certain we can provide you with links

to the reputable studies that confirm the genetics of Autism.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> Raven, directly and indirectly I disagree with Idiots Speak.

> Admittedly, I need to actually get the data in the first place...

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for tardiness, but Im wondering what noone has suggested a

hybrid either-or theory. What I have seen points to genetics, but Im

just curious.

[Guest guest]

> Sorry for tardiness, but Im wondering what noone has suggested a

> hybrid either-or theory. What I have seen points to genetics, but Im

> just curious.

>

While I'm positive that the main component is genetic I'm also 75% -

90% sure there's an environmental catalyst. I'm not a scientist but

it stands to reason that a hybrid theory is quite possible.

One of the theories that I thought about long and hard was, despite

_rabid_ debunking by the medical community, borderline poisoning from

mercury due to a genetic allergy to heavy metals. (And I know

already that this is probably going to start a flame war. That is

not my intent. These are just things I think about. I apologize in

advance to the list admins.)

Relevant thought particles:

1) There are people that will die from there mere touch of a substance.

2) Substances can be reduced to a level where the body has a severely

reduced reaction to said substance.

3) In theory if the substance causing anaphylaxis is reduced to a

small enough level it will cause illness but not death.

4) Mercury is hard to remove from soft tissues.

5) There are several similar symptoms between mercury poisoning and

autism.

6) The MMR/DDP vaccinations contain a small enough dose of mercury to

not cause immediate problems but settle, by nature, into the soft

tissues. Again often in the brain.

7) Genetic allergies + minimal amount of heavy metal poisoning + non-

removable = a not-easily-reversible condition with symptoms similar

to autism.

NOW - THAT SAID - I do not believe that the shots are the cause of

autism merely an indicator of an increase in genetic change in the

human population. More cases get reported because we're becoming

more allergic to a toxic environment that we're creating and growing.

There. I said it. *dons suit made of shuttle heat shield tiles*

----

Mike

I have to laugh for the seas can not contain my tears...

[Guest guest]

The symptoms between autism and mercury poisoning could be similar

enough for misidentifications to occur?

[Guest guest]

> The symptoms between autism and mercury poisoning could be similar

> enough for misidentifications to occur?

>

Depends entirely on what the doctor is looking for. Quite honestly I

don't have a list handy - I'm in the garage at the moment and all the

books are in the house.

Some similarities exist right off the bat:

disturbances in sensations

lack of coordination of movements

impairment of speech, hearing, walking

muscle weakness

( http://www.epa.gov/mercury/effects.htm )

And while these are the symptoms of methylmercury poisoning not

inorganic mercury or others the idea I'm proposing here is that an

allergy amplifies the symptoms of even a small amount of the

substance in any form.

If a doctor didn't know what they were looking for I can easily see

it being misdiagnosed - especially by a General Practicioner with a

large practice.

----

Mike

Quietly waiting for Wyatt's Torch to go out...

[Guest guest]

>

> The symptoms between autism and mercury poisoning could be similar

> enough for misidentifications to occur?

>

yes yes they can be. Aspergers can be a typical outcome of genetics.

The " severe " what is labeled severe may be a system that is not capable

of withstanding further shock or a " catalytic " event. Age exposure and

suseptability as well as multiple exposure in a short period. I do not

have scientific data but I believe Autism is a catch all for multiple

semi-reversable, ill effects from genetic/environmental exposures/

suseptabilities. Everything isn't Autism

[Guest guest]

It's like this, Zoe.

Diabetes is genetic. Sugar does not cause diabetes. However, if you

are predisposed to become a diabetic, sugar will exacerbate the

condition or trigger it's onset earlier than previously coded in the

DNA.

Can one say then that sugar causes diabetes? No.

Can one say that an individual who is not predisposed to diabetes

will develop diabetes because of sugar intake? No.

Can one say that ingesting large amounts of sugar for individuals who

are genetically coded for diabetes may exacerbate the condition? Yes.

Autism is genetic.

Are there environmental factors for individuals who are genetically

coded for Autism to exacerbate the condition? Of course there are.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> Sorry for tardiness, but Im wondering what noone has suggested a

> hybrid either-or theory. What I have seen points to genetics, but Im

> just curious.

>

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... 6) The MMR/DDP vaccinations contain a

small enough dose of mercury to not cause immediate problems but

settle, by nature, into the soft tissues. Again often in the brain ...

<snip> ... "

Um, Mike? Mercury and Thimerosal have been absent from childhood

vaccinations in America and Canada for a decade at this point and

therefore vaccinations cannot possibly cause Autism based on the

mercury and Thimerosal argument ... just so you know.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Possibly but then we must look for where this mercury poisoning is

coming from since it cannot come from a source that does not contain it.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> The symptoms between autism and mercury poisoning could be similar

> enough for misidentifications to occur?

>

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... Everything isn't Autism ... <snip> ... "

I agree with you. Autism has become the whipping boy of the new

millennium just as ADHD was the whipping boy of the 90s.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

But in life a vast majority of people (as far as I know) will believe that

obesity and sugar will cause diabetes, gout, heart attacks, and herpes (as

the joke goes).

And they will believe in vaccines as a cause one way or another as I've

heard a long list of wild claims of " causing all sorts of illnesses " so

therefore vaccines are believed to be bad overall.

Heck, they would believe that President Bush's' daughters are aliens! ;-)

As I've learned long ago: " people is cwazy! " . :-) They are what they are

and we somehow have to educate the public. I wish I knew the best methods

(protests don't in my opinion).

Us " Don Quixote " just have to keep " tilting at the windmill " and hope the

people can learn the truth.

Unfortunately despite living with one guy who was diabetic, I still don't

know the condition at all. I just remember a vague reference to a " viral "

or some such " cause " which adding my intelligence into the equation that in

turn a person with a genetic makeup that would allow it to occur. And I'm

well educated (ok, not Harvard let alone Sonoma State!) and I don't know for

sure.

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: More proof autism is genetic

It's like this, Zoe.

Diabetes is genetic. Sugar does not cause diabetes. However, if you

are predisposed to become a diabetic, sugar will exacerbate the

condition or trigger it's onset earlier than previously coded in the

DNA.

Can one say then that sugar causes diabetes? No.

Can one say that an individual who is not predisposed to diabetes

will develop diabetes because of sugar intake? No.

Can one say that ingesting large amounts of sugar for individuals who

are genetically coded for diabetes may exacerbate the condition? Yes.

Autism is genetic.

Are there environmental factors for individuals who are genetically

coded for Autism to exacerbate the condition? Of course there are.

Raven

Co-Administrator

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9:26 AM

[Guest guest]

> Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... 6) The MMR/DDP vaccinations contain a

> small enough dose of mercury to not cause immediate problems but

> settle, by nature, into the soft tissues. Again often in the brain ...

> <snip> ... "

>

> Um, Mike? Mercury and Thimerosal have been absent from childhood

> vaccinations in America and Canada for a decade at this point and

> therefore vaccinations cannot possibly cause Autism based on the

> mercury and Thimerosal argument ... just so you know.

>

Sorry but when I took my daughter for shots about _5_ years ago there

was _still_ Thimerosal on the DDP labels so I know from experience

that data is incorrect.

Still blatantly on the labels. I questioned it several times and was

told " Oh this is a reduced amount! " . Riiiight...

I'm betting that I could walk down to the local medico's office and

find that damn preservative in almost any inoculation source. They

can't remove it from the major vaccines because they don't have a

good enough preservative to replace it and shipping those vaccines to

the third-world among other places gets too expensive if that

preservative is not in place. And it's not in the best interest of

drug companies to lose money...

What happened was a media blitz that consisted basically of " We've

removed this stuff now stop bothering us about it! " .

I don't care who _says_ they removed it you can still find the damn

stuff and parents of children on the spectrum are _still_ complaining

about it. if I have to break into the local doctor's office to prove

that then I will but I'd prefer not to have to gather evidence that

way. Or more precisely " I'll believe it when I see it. " .

--

Mike

See with eyes unclouded, think with mind uncluttered, act with heart

unchained!

[Guest guest]

> mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... Everything isn't Autism ... <snip> ... "

>

> I agree with you. Autism has become the whipping boy of the new

> millennium just as ADHD was the whipping boy of the 90s.

>

This much is very true. The added attention both helps and hinders

unfortunately. :-(

--

Mike

See with eyes unclouded, think with mind uncluttered, act with heart

unchained!

[Guest guest]

Those who suffer heavy metal poisoning (and not non-metal effected Autism)

have a HUGE environmental list to get it from. Old paint, dust, industrial

pollution, fish from San Francisco Bay (I think), and so many other

possibilities adding up.

It cannot be identified as a " single " source as we are all exposed to a long

list of possible sources that may or may not add up to that condition that

may not have ONE source of a substantial amount.

Even arguing about past Thimerasol formulas it's heavy metal content was so

insignificant that by itself it NEVER could cause anything in standard doses

and would have to be given in gallons and gallons of amounts to even

remotely be possible to affect a person and certainly cannot EVER of course

as most of us agree be the " cause " of true Autism let alone heavy metal

poisoning.

It's the concept as taught in cognitive therapy counseling: " all or nothing

thinking " . Not realizing it's a degree of amount and then learning that for

the " amount " to be significant in any example it would have to be in some

huge amount to be a cause of an illness.

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: More proof autism is genetic

Possibly but then we must look for where this mercury poisoning is

coming from since it cannot come from a source that does not contain it.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> The symptoms between autism and mercury poisoning could be similar

> enough for misidentifications to occur?

>

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9:26 AM

[Guest guest]

> Possibly but then we must look for where this mercury poisoning is

> coming from since it cannot come from a source that does not

> contain it.

>

From your previous statements of time-frame I find your data to be

invalid. A quick search of Google shows that I am not alone in my

beliefs:

http://shorterlink.org/3974

Thimerosal is _still_ out there and it's _still_ very much in use.

----

Mike

I have to laugh for the seas can not contain my tears...

[Guest guest]

> Those who suffer heavy metal poisoning (and not non-metal effected

> Autism)

> have a HUGE environmental list to get it from. Old paint, dust,

> industrial

> pollution, fish from San Francisco Bay (I think), and so many other

> possibilities adding up.

Thus my argument for a genetic increase in allergies to our existing

environment.

> It cannot be identified as a " single " source as we are all exposed

> to a long

> list of possible sources that may or may not add up to that

> condition that

> may not have ONE source of a substantial amount.

True. I never claimed it was the sole source only that it was a

significant one.

> Even arguing about past Thimerasol formulas it's heavy metal

> content was so

> insignificant that by itself it NEVER could cause anything in

> standard doses

> and would have to be given in gallons and gallons of amounts to even

> remotely be possible to affect a person and certainly cannot EVER

> of course

> as most of us agree be the " cause " of true Autism let alone heavy

> metal

> poisoning.

Bull. The amount in the initial vaccinations was the dosage for a

250 lb male. Look it up. That's far beyond the dosage level for a

small child and could certainly cause these problems. Especially if

you add in a genetic allergic reaction.

> It's the concept as taught in cognitive therapy counseling: " all or

> nothing

> thinking " . Not realizing it's a degree of amount and then learning

> that for

> the " amount " to be significant in any example it would have to be

> in some

> huge amount to be a cause of an illness.

Except that if you look at the factors of both genetics AND

environment the amount of any substance in question required to make

that " change " per each individual is less overall than it would be

with just the environment alone.

----

Mike

MARS NEEDS CHOCOS! - Martian Manhunter

[Guest guest]

" Sorry for tardiness, but Im wondering what noone has suggested a

hybrid either-or theory. What I have seen points to genetics, but Im

just curious. "

No theory has been suggested because overwhelmingly, autism has been

proven to be genetic in origin by 137 scientists in 50 locations in 9

countries after examining the genomes of 1,600 families with autistics

in them.

Proposing a hybrid either-or theory that has already been

scientifically disproven is silly in light of established science.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" While I'm positive that the main component is genetic I'm also 75% -

90% sure there's an environmental catalyst. I'm not a scientist but

it stands to reason that a hybrid theory is quite possible. "

Unfortunately, you are wrong. The Autistic Genome project not only

mapped the genes which caused autism but determined that the genes

themselves were not mutative as the result of an external catalyst, but

were instead present from birth, and in a few cases, hereditary. It

should be noted that some of those autistics studied had never been

vaccinated.

Administrator