Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 forward this to Bauer...I didn't open the link was afraid of what I would see. , Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Please watch Ok.. I know election year is here. This will be the ONLY politcal email I will annoy you with. But this video is very important. The child in this video had Down Syndrome. He was aborted via induced labor at aprox 21 weeks - born alive - and left to die for nearly one hour. One has to ask.. " Where does Down Syndrome advocacy begin and end ?" Whose rights are we protecting? Even if your not 100% sure about all this. This goes way beyond " safe and Legal". One must ask.. was the child in pain? Was pain killer administered? Where was the dignity in this death? Left with SOILED linens??!! Would you want to die in a pile of soiled linens???? This is the common gestational age for children with Down Syndrome to be aborted. The Washington Times as well as the Center for Disease Control report that 95% of children with a prenatal diagnosis of DS are aborted. The CDC further states that Down Syndrome occurs in 1-800 pregnancies. The CDC also reports that only 5000 children are BORN with DS every year. Prenatal testing is usally done at 16 weeks. The wait time for a child with Down Syndrome in the USA is over ONE YEAR. This information was on the Born Alive Protection act. September/October is Down Syndrome awareness month. Know the truth about Down Syndrome. I know I am biased.. ( My is a Joy ) but I do beleve in informed consent. NO PARTY is perfect.. NO Canditdate is perfect. .but KNOW who your voting for. Cause it will ultimatly be WHAT your voting for. Make sure that is really what you want. Thank You for your time, STeph Carlson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 You won't see anything , you can watch it. That hospital is the same one where received the best ever treatment. I could never figure that out. How do any of the people involved in this go home and sleep??? And how does Obama or anyone else who would support this..... Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DownSyndromeInfoExchange/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----To: Member At Large ; DownSyndromeInfoExchange Cc: downsyndrome ; Downsyndrome_Families-acceptsub-zNKfcQBInt01=CrQ07J9qPQ ; karenfolzenlogen@...; Knights of Colubus ; maryaliming@...; myrnalane@...; mysunshine@...; Susi Hawthorne ; tiffany c ; Women's Center Friends & Benefactors Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:10:32 PMSubject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Please watch http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=VIdbYjmbFzo Ok.. I know election year is here. This will be the ONLY politcal email I will annoy you with. But this video is very important. The child in this video had Down Syndrome. He was aborted via induced labor at aprox 21 weeks - born alive - and left to die for nearly one hour. One has to ask.. " Where does Down Syndrome advocacy begin and end ?" Whose rights are we protecting? Even if your not 100% sure about all this. This goes way beyond " safe and Legal". One must ask.. was the child in pain? Was pain killer administered? Where was the dignity in this death? Left with SOILED linens??!! Would you want to die in a pile of soiled linens???? This is the common gestational age for children with Down Syndrome to be aborted. The Washington Times as well as the Center for Disease Control report that 95% of children with a prenatal diagnosis of DS are aborted. The CDC further states that Down Syndrome occurs in 1-800 pregnancies. The CDC also reports that only 5000 children are BORN with DS every year. Prenatal testing is usally done at 16 weeks. The wait time for a child with Down Syndrome in the USA is over ONE YEAR. This information was on the Born Alive Protection act. September/October is Down Syndrome awareness month. Know the truth about Down Syndrome. I know I am biased.. ( My is a Joy ) but I do beleve in informed consent. NO PARTY is perfect.. NO Canditdate is perfect. .but KNOW who your voting for. Cause it will ultimatly be WHAT your voting for. Make sure that is really what you want. Thank You for your time, STeph Carlson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 OMG I am sick to my stomach...now I know why Pastor Rick asked the question 'When do babies have Civil Rights' during the forum last Saturday night. And then a seperate question on when life begins...Barack answered 'if a baby is born alive at any gestation they should be treated' so I guess he's hedging against this ad. , Mom to 14, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Please watch http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=VIdbYjmbFzo Ok.. I know election year is here. This will be the ONLY politcal email I will annoy you with. But this video is very important. The child in this video had Down Syndrome. He was aborted via induced labor at aprox 21 weeks - born alive - and left to die for nearly one hour. One has to ask.. " Where does Down Syndrome advocacy begin and end ?" Whose rights are we protecting? Even if your not 100% sure about all this. This goes way beyond " safe and Legal". One must ask.. was the child in pain? Was pain killer administered? Where was the dignity in this death? Left with SOILED linens??!! Would you want to die in a pile of soiled linens???? This is the common gestational age for children with Down Syndrome to be aborted. The Washington Times as well as the Center for Disease Control report that 95% of children with a prenatal diagnosis of DS are aborted. The CDC further states that Down Syndrome occurs in 1-800 pregnancies. The CDC also reports that only 5000 children are BORN with DS every year. Prenatal testing is usally done at 16 weeks. The wait time for a child with Down Syndrome in the USA is over ONE YEAR. This information was on the Born Alive Protection act. September/October is Down Syndrome awareness month. Know the truth about Down Syndrome. I know I am biased.. ( My is a Joy ) but I do beleve in informed consent. NO PARTY is perfect.. NO Canditdate is perfect. .but KNOW who your voting for. Cause it will ultimatly be WHAT your voting for. Make sure that is really what you want. Thank You for your time, STeph Carlson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabilitiesinc.orghttp://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/ " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I hate it when people compare abortion with war... [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, PresidentCelebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabilitiesinc.orghttp://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you."-- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Abortion and allowing a baby to die out right is a very deliberate act against the baby. Children being killed by war, is a horrific by product of war, not the very determined slaughter of the most innocent.Anyone who would vote to allow abortion and then tries to sell himself is compassionate, is a fool.Anyone who votes for such a person, is condoning the abortions and can consider themselves partners in death. There is something very inherently wrong with anyone who would support such an atrocity.If Obama went into a town or city as President and aimed all our fire power at a children's hospital, would it then be considered evil? What is the difference??? One is cloaked in respectability while the other seems to be a rallying point for those who claim to be peace lovers and who love to point the atrocity of war......War, is always debatable. No one likes war, no one likes to see children maimed and killed in them either. I think it's safe to say, no matter what side of the war you are on, that people do their best to avoid it and abhor it.That is not true about abortion. People actually embrace their sole called right to out right murder an innocent child. It's comparing apples to oranges. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1 GigaTribe doihavtasayMom to seven including , 7 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DownSyndromeInfoExchange/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:53:27 AMSubject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please WatchHi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabil itiesinc. orghttp://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you." -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 And a visual comparison to the deaths caused by war vs. abortion.... http://buchholzins.com/cir/deaths.by.War.vs.Abortion.html Blessings, Kris From: PC Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:45 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch I hate it when people compare abortion with war... [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, PresidentCelebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabilitiesinc.orghttp://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you."-- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Yep you can't compare the 2 at all. [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, PresidentCelebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabilitiesinc.orghttp://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you."-- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 But we can’t cover our eyes and put our fingers in our ears and pretend that it isn’t so just because we don’t want to believe it…it is a fact that the man has a 100% approval rating from NARAL. It is a fact that he voted against the bill 3 times. In the talk with Rick Warren last weekend, he sidestepped the question on when he believed life began by saying ‘That question is above my pay grade”…huh???? 100% approval rating from NARAL, meaning that WHENEVER there was a chance to vote FOR abortion ‘rights’, he did it…yet he can’t answer the question about when he believes life begins??? I don’t like war either….but I hate abortion even more. I believe that we have a responsibility to speak up for those who can’t speak for themselves(in this case, unborn babies) . KathyR [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO. -- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Inc www.celebratingabil itiesinc. org http://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/ http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/ " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " " Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. " Teddy Roosevelt " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Wow. That literally gave me chills. How awful. KathyR From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Kris Delaney Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:35 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch And a visual comparison to the deaths caused by war vs. abortion.... http://buchholzins.com/cir/deaths.by.War.vs.Abortion.html Blessings, Kris From: PC Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:45 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch I hate it when people compare abortion with war... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacqui Hawkins To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:53 AM Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO. -- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Inc www.celebratingabilitiesinc.org http://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/ http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/ " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " " Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. " Teddy Roosevelt " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 He's never had my vote and he never will. If my husband could vote, he wouldn't get his either. [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, PresidentCelebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabil itiesinc. orghttp://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you."-- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I know,,,and I think that it is kind of funny that the press(and people) are making such a big deal about ‘race’..I couldn’t care less about what color a candidate’s skin is….…there are very important issues at stake…so I hope that the press is just wrong when they say that the public in generals puts so much emphasis on those two things to the exclusion of the real issues. I don’t think that people are that shallow(at least, I hope not;-/ KathyR From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Bolduc Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch He's never had my vote and he never will. If my husband could vote, he wouldn't get his either. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathy Ratkiewicz To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch But we can’t cover our eyes and put our fingers in our ears and pretend that it isn’t so just because we don’t want to believe it…it is a fact that the man has a 100% approval rating from NARAL. It is a fact that he voted against the bill 3 times. In the talk with Rick Warren last weekend, he sidestepped the question on when he believed life began by saying ‘That question is above my pay grade”…huh???? 100% approval rating from NARAL, meaning that WHENEVER there was a chance to vote FOR abortion ‘rights’, he did it…yet he can’t answer the question about when he believes life begins??? I don’t like war either….but I hate abortion even more. I believe that we have a responsibility to speak up for those who can’t speak for themselves(in this case, unborn babies) . KathyR ----- Original Message ---- To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:53:27 AM Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO. -- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Inc www.celebratingabil itiesinc. org http://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/ http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/ " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " " Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. " Teddy Roosevelt " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 That’s so disgusting! Abortion makes me so mad. Especially when it comes to delivering a child who is born alive and could be saved with the medical knowledge that we have today, but they let it sit there to die. So disgusting. Qadoshyah From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Kris Delaney Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:35 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch And a visual comparison to the deaths caused by war vs. abortion.... http://buchholzins.com/cir/deaths.by.War.vs.Abortion.html Blessings, Kris From: PC Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:45 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch I hate it when people compare abortion with war... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacqui Hawkins To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:53 AM Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them...........should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong...........whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war.........if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style.........I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO. -- Jacqui Hawkins, President Celebrating Abilities Inc www.celebratingabilitiesinc.org http://celebratingabilities.blogspot.com/ http://thelifeandtimesofastressedoutmom.blogspot.com/ Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahelpinghands.com/c/605795/ " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " " Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. " Teddy Roosevelt " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 This is a very eye-opening rebutal to that other post. If a person is willing to have their eyes opened, that is. Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please WatchTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:34 AM And a visual comparison to the deaths caused by war vs. abortion.... http://buchholzins. com/cir/deaths. by.War.vs. Abortion. html Blessings, Kris From: PC Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:45 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExc hange@yahoogroup s.com Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] RE: Please Watch I hate it when people compare abortion with war... [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] RE: Please Watch Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, who has promised to keep us in Iraq. I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO.-- Jacqui Hawkins, PresidentCelebrating Abilities Incwww.celebratingabil itiesinc. orghttp://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/"Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms!""Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."Teddy Roosevelt"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you."-- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Thanks for the visual. Also, one has to remember that the reason for war is to fight for the greater good, for peace. Whether or not one agrees with the war in Iraq, the cause behind it is noble. In most reasons, the only reason to abort babies is money for the doctor and selfishness. Purpose means everything. Marsha > > > Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] RE: Please Watch > To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:34 AM > > > > > > > > And a visual comparison to the deaths caused by war vs. abortion.... > > http://buchholzins. com/cir/deaths. by.War.vs. Abortion. html > > Blessings, > Kris > > > > > From: PC > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DownSyndromeInfoExc hange@yahoogroup s.com > Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] RE: Please Watch > > > I hate it when people compare abortion with war... > > > > [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] RE: Please Watch > > > > > Hi! I'm mainly a lurker here, but I've posted before. I have to say I, too, was afraid to watch and I thought it would be worse than it was and it still was bad. Barack Obama may have voted against this bill 3 times, but I still think this is too much political propaganda. It is meant to pull at our heartstrings and it does - but we can't vote based purely on the video. There are MANY issues at risk during this election and this is but ONE of them........ ...should this practice continue? No! Do I think that Barack Obama is wrong by the way he voted? Yes! But if you base YOUR vote solely on this video, you are making a TERRIBLE mistake. Death caused by another, no matter what the facts, is wrong....... ....whether that person is a baby, a child, an adult, the elderly, etc. Let's think about the HUGE numbers of Iraqi children and our own soldiers dying in this war......... if we vote solely on this video, it means a vote for McCain, > who has promised to keep us in Iraq. > > I'm not asking to persuade your vote, it isn't my style....... ..I wasn't an Obama supporter to begin with, but he may just be the lesser of two evils. JMHO. > > -- > Jacqui Hawkins, President > Celebrating Abilities Inc > www.celebratingabil itiesinc. org > http://celebratinga bilities. blogspot. com/ > http://thelifeandti mesofastressedou tmom.blogspot. com/ > Visit our community site: http://www.lotsahel pinghands. com/c/605795/ > > " Schools belong to children... ALL children. Schools must continue to change classrooms to meet the needs of children, rather than trying to change students to meet the needs of classrooms! " > > " Do what you can, > with what you have, > where you are. " > Teddy Roosevelt > > " Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you. " > -- Arthur Ward, author, educator, speaker (1921-1994) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hello! I AM that person who posted the comparison about abortion vs. war.........my point was obviously missed. I do believe abortion is not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility " . The way that the facility was going about their practices was nauseating. BUT I do believe that it is a personal decision. It wasn't MY decision. My problem with the video is that awareness and education wasn't its motive, it was meant to have an effect on parents of children with Down Syndrome and parents in general, to tell them how to vote. Like I stated, Obama isn't my first choice, but McCain isn't either. So we have to look at MANY facets of all issues to determine who we feel will be the best candidate. We can go to youtube right now and find all sorts of " exposing " videos, but what does that prove? Our nation right now is the laughing stock of the world. I'm not interested in the mud slinging, I'm interested in ALL the facts. Who is going to ensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Who is going to ensure that my children will have access to decent and affordable healthcare? Who even knows what " affordable " is?? Who is going to protect my child's rights under IDEA and ADA? Who is going to help stabilize the economy so that our friends don't continue to lose their homes, we don't lose our jobs and we can continue to provide for our family?? Who is going to end this war that has gone on long enough??? You can't tell me that you aren't aggravated that Osama is still roaming the earth, but we are bringing democracy to Iraq........as a NYer, who was there watching as GWB said he was going to get Osama and then watch him also say he just doesn't have the time to look for him because it isn't that important???? I was THERE, my life was affected deeper than you'll ever know.........I watched friends bury their children, parents, etc. For months, I couldn't drive down the streets without seeing a funeral. So, yes, I'm biased. I'm entitled to MY opinion still, aren't I? I'm sorry if you don't like the comparisons of war vs. abortion, but how is it different? Death is death and as much as the visual images of a baby being aborted horrifies me, so does the child lying on the street writhing with pain because he was strictly a " by-product " of this war. But are you aware where McCain stands on abortion and just what he's voted for/against? Now, I know my " personal choice " statement is going to rattle a few cages, but let me deflect some of that NOW before it starts......what we need as a nation is for all people to be treated with respect, despite the color of the skin, their religious preference, their personal beliefs, where they choose to live, who they choose to live with, etc. But the only way to eradicate abortion is through education AND assistance. Make adoptions more affordable for the family that wants to adopt a child, get adequate and appropriate fostering parents and help them financially, provide quality and affordable health care, assist families with child care, enforce IDEA and inclusion, improve our schools, hold fathers who walk away from their families accountable, etc I didn't post to persuade a vote for Obama and I didn't post to get attacked because of my political beliefs. I believe this discussion belongs in another place, not here. My child has Down Syndrome, so does yours, so tell me again why exactly we are here???? The only way for these practices to be outlawed is through education and awareness.........how does that video HELP the struggle and promote the pleasure of raising a child with Down Syndrome??? It doesn't. Let me just say this............My eyes are WIDE open.........Are yours? Jacqui - proud and concerned mama of 5 children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 The only person who is going to be CERTAIN your child gets a good education is YOU! Since when is anyone entitled to anything besides LIFE and DEATH! We forget that the only thing we can/SHOULD be sure of is life and that one day we will die, that is ALL. That is the problem somehow many started to believe they were " entitled " . JMHO. Caroline Who is going to ensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Who is going to ensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? My husband and I are going to be certain our children gets the education they are entitled to. Not you nor the government but us parents!! [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch Hello!I AM that person who posted the comparison about abortion vs.war.........my point was obviously missed. I do believe abortion isnot a form of birth control and I do also believe that having anabortion strictly because a "screening" tells you that your child willhave Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children thatDON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a "possibility".The way that the facility was going about their practices wasnauseating. BUT I do believe that it is a personal decision. Itwasn't MY decision. My problem with the video is that awareness and education wasn't itsmotive, it was meant to have an effect on parents of children withDown Syndrome and parents in general, to tell them how to vote. LikeI stated, Obama isn't my first choice, but McCain isn't either. So wehave to look at MANY facets of all issues to determine who we feelwill be the best candidate. We can go to youtube right now and findall sorts of "exposing" videos, but what does that prove? Our nationright now is the laughing stock of the world. I'm not interested inthe mud slinging, I'm interested in ALL the facts. Who is going toensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Whois going to ensure that my children will have access to decent andaffordable healthcare? Who even knows what "affordable" is?? Who isgoing to protect my child's rights under IDEA and ADA? Who is goingto help stabilize the economy so that our friends don't continue tolose their homes, we don't lose our jobs and we can continue toprovide for our family?? Who is going to end this war that has goneon long enough??? You can't tell me that you aren't aggravated thatOsama is still roaming the earth, but we are bringing democracy toIraq........as a NYer, who was there watching as GWB said he was goingto get Osama and then watch him also say he just doesn't have the timeto look for him because it isn't that important???? I was THERE, mylife was affected deeper than you'll ever know.........I watchedfriends bury their children, parents, etc. For months, I couldn'tdrive down the streets without seeing a funeral. So, yes, I'm biased.I'm entitled to MY opinion still, aren't I? I'm sorry if you don't like the comparisons of war vs. abortion, buthow is it different? Death is death and as much as the visual imagesof a baby being aborted horrifies me, so does the child lying on thestreet writhing with pain because he was strictly a "by-product" ofthis war.But are you aware where McCain stands on abortion and just whathe's voted for/against? Now, I know my "personal choice" statement is going to rattle a fewcages, but let me deflect some of that NOW before it starts......whatwe need as a nation is for all people to be treated with respect,despite the color of the skin, their religious preference, theirpersonal beliefs, where they choose to live, who they choose to livewith, etc. But the only way to eradicate abortion is througheducation AND assistance. Make adoptions more affordable for thefamily that wants to adopt a child, get adequate and appropriatefostering parents and help them financially, provide quality andaffordable health care, assist families with child care, enforce IDEAand inclusion, improve our schools, hold fathers who walk away fromtheir families accountable, etcI didn't post to persuade a vote for Obama and I didn't post to getattacked because of my political beliefs. I believe this discussionbelongs in another place, not here. My child has Down Syndrome, sodoes yours, so tell me again why exactly we are here???? The only way for these practices to be outlawed is through educationand awareness.........how does that video HELP the struggle andpromote the pleasure of raising a child with Down Syndrome??? Itdoesn't. Let me just say this............My eyes are WIDE open.........Are yours?Jacqui - proud and concerned mama of 5 children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I was going to reply to this earlier, but got sidetracked by life at our house;-) Anyway, I have a few comments to make.. You said: .”” I do believe abortion is not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility””..end quote To imply that the death of a child who does not have Ds is more wrong than the death of a child w/Ds kind of boggles my mind. *Any* death due to abortion is wrong. To abort a baby, then if the child is born alive…to leave him or her to die is more than just a ‘decision’. It is murder. Period. Of course the video was intended to influence people’s votes…I am praying that it WILL make people think. I don’t understand how anyone could watch that video, or hear about the Born Alive Protection Act, then vote for anyone who voted against it….how can anyone justify *not* protecting those poor babies? How can we close our eyes to the barbarity of that, and tell ourselves that the truly important things are the economy, or education..or health care? How can anyone respect a politician of any party who has made his advancements at the cost of babies’ lives? As far as my children’s education, it is the responsibility of my husband and myself to ensure that they are educated. It is not the federal government’s responsibility, or the state’s. I don’t think that it is the government’s responsibility to feed my family or provide child care or health care…in fact, I wish they would get out of the way most of the time, because I think that they meddle too much in our daily affairs. There is absolutely NO comparison between deaths due to war and deaths due to abortion. Since Roe vs Wade, over 43 million babies have been sacrificed to the goddess of ‘choice’.(or the goddess of apathy) The deaths of children in wars are truly a tragedy, but the sheer numbers of babies who have been aborted far outweigh the number of children killed in wars-there truly is no comparison, due the massive number of deaths due to abortion…and the deaths of the children in wars are usually accidental…not deliberate, like in an abortion. Yes, I believe that *my* eyes are indeed wide open. I can see abortion for the horrible evil that it is. I can see that there is no excuse or justification for the whole scale murder of babies that is going on in our own country. I can see that if I don’t speak out against abortion, or if I vote for politicians that endorse abortion, then I am being an enabler of abortion. But I also believe that if a woman has an abortion, and later realizes that it was wrong and asks God to forgive her, He will. Education is not the only factor in stopping abortion. Personal responsibility is also a huge factor..and people have to be told the truth about abortion..it is not just a ‘choice’, it involves the taking of a human life at ALL stages of the pregnancy. …to say that that video was invalid because it didn’t “promote the pleasure of raising a child with Down syndrome” really concerns me. Our society has cheapened human life to the extent that it seems like babies have to *earn* the right to live..babies have to be wanted, “normal”, and almost have a guarantee that our lives with them will be better than without them. It is true that my son Danny has enriched my life immeasurably , but the plain truth of the matter is that he deserved to live whether or not *my* life would have been improved. That video details the horrific practice of delivering babies before term for the express purpose of letting them die. That is barbaric. If a person is not moved by that video, they will not be moved by a “warm and fuzzy” video. Not to say that there isn’t a place for positive awareness videos….but there is also a place for the cold, hard facts to try to educate people about what late term abortions really are.. On our homepage, we specifically stated that this list would operate from a pro-life standpoint. So I believe that this discussion DOES belong here. With 90% of babies diagnosed prenatally with Ds being aborted, including late term abortions, it is a very relevant topic for this list, unfortunately. KathyR From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of jacquih1126 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:06 AM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch Hello! I AM that person who posted the comparison about abortion vs. war.........my point was obviously missed. I do believe abortion is not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility " . The way that the facility was going about their practices was nauseating. BUT I do believe that it is a personal decision. It wasn't MY decision. My problem with the video is that awareness and education wasn't its motive, it was meant to have an effect on parents of children with Down Syndrome and parents in general, to tell them how to vote. Like I stated, Obama isn't my first choice, but McCain isn't either. So we have to look at MANY facets of all issues to determine who we feel will be the best candidate. We can go to youtube right now and find all sorts of " exposing " videos, but what does that prove? Our nation right now is the laughing stock of the world. I'm not interested in the mud slinging, I'm interested in ALL the facts. Who is going to ensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Who is going to ensure that my children will have access to decent and affordable healthcare? Who even knows what " affordable " is?? Who is going to protect my child's rights under IDEA and ADA? Who is going to help stabilize the economy so that our friends don't continue to lose their homes, we don't lose our jobs and we can continue to provide for our family?? Who is going to end this war that has gone on long enough??? You can't tell me that you aren't aggravated that Osama is still roaming the earth, but we are bringing democracy to Iraq........as a NYer, who was there watching as GWB said he was going to get Osama and then watch him also say he just doesn't have the time to look for him because it isn't that important???? I was THERE, my life was affected deeper than you'll ever know.........I watched friends bury their children, parents, etc. For months, I couldn't drive down the streets without seeing a funeral. So, yes, I'm biased. I'm entitled to MY opinion still, aren't I? I'm sorry if you don't like the comparisons of war vs. abortion, but how is it different? Death is death and as much as the visual images of a baby being aborted horrifies me, so does the child lying on the street writhing with pain because he was strictly a " by-product " of this war. But are you aware where McCain stands on abortion and just what he's voted for/against? Now, I know my " personal choice " statement is going to rattle a few cages, but let me deflect some of that NOW before it starts......what we need as a nation is for all people to be treated with respect, despite the color of the skin, their religious preference, their personal beliefs, where they choose to live, who they choose to live with, etc. But the only way to eradicate abortion is through education AND assistance. Make adoptions more affordable for the family that wants to adopt a child, get adequate and appropriate fostering parents and help them financially, provide quality and affordable health care, assist families with child care, enforce IDEA and inclusion, improve our schools, hold fathers who walk away from their families accountable, etc I didn't post to persuade a vote for Obama and I didn't post to get attacked because of my political beliefs. I believe this discussion belongs in another place, not here. My child has Down Syndrome, so does yours, so tell me again why exactly we are here???? The only way for these practices to be outlawed is through education and awareness.........how does that video HELP the struggle and promote the pleasure of raising a child with Down Syndrome??? It doesn't. Let me just say this............My eyes are WIDE open.........Are yours? Jacqui - proud and concerned mama of 5 children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 I AM pro-life - ALL LIFE! As far as my statement about DS/abortion/non DS children, I didn't mean to devalue the life of a child with DS. I AM a parent of a child with DS!!!! What I MEANT to say is, I feel strongly against abortion based on a false positive screen of DS. People are told that their child MAY have DS and they abort when really their child really didn't have DS. THAT scares me! There is too much misinformation out there or not enough facts.........doctors are making the wrong calls, causing families to make very wrong decisions. And does anyone GET the fact that I SAID it was wrong and was horrified that something like this is going on?????You also failed to understand what I meant about this stuff " belonging here " - sure, abortion does for the reasons I state above - but politics do NOT. People have far too many differing opinions and to dispute politics in this forum is wrong, in my opinion. As far as the education of my children, ultimately it IS up to me to ensure that my child gets a good education, but unfortunately, I have to work for a living.............so I have to entrust my children to the care of the public school system, which is heavily flawed and needs to be fixed. So, if you don't believe in " entitlements " for education - than is discussing IEPs and problems with them inappropriate??? I do want to thank the person that emailed me off-list and apologized, she did recognize the fact that I'm just a mom that loves her 5 kids dearly, one happens to have DS (among other diagnoses).......I DO believe my life has been changed for the better since bringing my child with DS into our home at 10 years old.............it has changed my life immeasurably. But the statement that a vote for Obama means " equal rights for all and equal opportunities for all and that scares me " . I'm sorry, I believe that our nation was founded for these freedoms, rights and opportunities........AND that INCLUDES MY CHILD! But I respect her opinion - that's what it means to be an American. ~Jacqui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Kathy, Thanks for that post. I have not responded to this subject because it just makes me so upset. I would surely say something I shouldn’t. Lee Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 You keep saying politics don't belong here but you were the one who brought it up in the very first post you made. [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch You also failed to understand what I meant about this stuff "belonging here" - sure, abortion does for the reasons I state above - but politics do NOT. People have far too many differing opinions and to dispute politics in this forum is wrong, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Very well written Kathy!!! RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch I was going to reply to this earlier, but got sidetracked by life at our house;-) Anyway, I have a few comments to make.. You said: .”” I do believe abortion isnot a form of birth control and I do also believe that having anabortion strictly because a "screening" tells you that your child willhave Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children thatDON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a "possibility””..end quote To imply that the death of a child who does not have Ds is more wrong than the death of a child w/Ds kind of boggles my mind. *Any* death due to abortion is wrong. To abort a baby, then if the child is born alive…to leave him or her to die is more than just a ‘decision’. It is murder. Period. Of course the video was intended to influence people’s votes…I am praying that it WILL make people think. I don’t understand how anyone could watch that video, or hear about the Born Alive Protection Act, then vote for anyone who voted against it….how can anyone justify *not* protecting those poor babies? How can we close our eyes to the barbarity of that, and tell ourselves that the truly important things are the economy, or education..or health care? How can anyone respect a politician of any party who has made his advancements at the cost of babies’ lives? As far as my children’s education, it is the responsibility of my husband and myself to ensure that they are educated. It is not the federal government’s responsibility, or the state’s. I don’t think that it is the government’s responsibility to feed my family or provide child care or health care…in fact, I wish they would get out of the way most of the time, because I think that they meddle too much in our daily affairs. There is absolutely NO comparison between deaths due to war and deaths due to abortion. Since Roe vs Wade, over 43 million babies have been sacrificed to the goddess of ‘choice’.(or the goddess of apathy) The deaths of children in wars are truly a tragedy, but the sheer numbers of babies who have been aborted far outweigh the number of children killed in wars-there truly is no comparison, due the massive number of deaths due to abortion…and the deaths of the children in wars are usually accidental…not deliberate, like in an abortion. Yes, I believe that *my* eyes are indeed wide open. I can see abortion for the horrible evil that it is. I can see that there is no excuse or justification for the whole scale murder of babies that is going on in our own country. I can see that if I don’t speak out against abortion, or if I vote for politicians that endorse abortion, then I am being an enabler of abortion. But I also believe that if a woman has an abortion, and later realizes that it was wrong and asks God to forgive her, He will. Education is not the only factor in stopping abortion. Personal responsibility is also a huge factor..and people have to be told the truth about abortion..it is not just a ‘choice’, it involves the taking of a human life at ALL stages of the pregnancy. …to say that that video was invalid because it didn’t “promote the pleasure of raising a child with Down syndrome” really concerns me. Our society has cheapened human life to the extent that it seems like babies have to *earn* the right to live..babies have to be wanted, “normal”, and almost have a guarantee that our lives with them will be better than without them. It is true that my son Danny has enriched my life immeasurably , but the plain truth of the matter is that he deserved to live whether or not *my* life would have been improved. That video details the horrific practice of delivering babies before term for the express purpose of letting them die. That is barbaric. If a person is not moved by that video, they will not be moved by a “warm and fuzzy” video. Not to say that there isn’t a place for positive awareness videos….but there is also a place for the cold, hard facts to try to educate people about what late term abortions really are.. On our homepage, we specifically stated that this list would operate from a pro-life standpoint. So I believe that this discussion DOES belong here. With 90% of babies diagnosed prenatally with Ds being aborted, including late term abortions, it is a very relevant topic for this list, unfortunately. KathyR From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of jacquih1126Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:06 AMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch Hello!I AM that person who posted the comparison about abortion vs.war.........my point was obviously missed. I do believe abortion isnot a form of birth control and I do also believe that having anabortion strictly because a "screening" tells you that your child willhave Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children thatDON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a "possibility".The way that the facility was going about their practices wasnauseating. BUT I do believe that it is a personal decision. Itwasn't MY decision. My problem with the video is that awareness and education wasn't itsmotive, it was meant to have an effect on parents of children withDown Syndrome and parents in general, to tell them how to vote. LikeI stated, Obama isn't my first choice, but McCain isn't either. So wehave to look at MANY facets of all issues to determine who we feelwill be the best candidate. We can go to youtube right now and findall sorts of "exposing" videos, but what does that prove? Our nationright now is the laughing stock of the world. I'm not interested inthe mud slinging, I'm interested in ALL the facts. Who is going toensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Whois going to ensure that my children will have access to decent andaffordable healthcare? Who even knows what "affordable" is?? Who isgoing to protect my child's rights under IDEA and ADA? Who is goingto help stabilize the economy so that our friends don't continue tolose their homes, we don't lose our jobs and we can continue toprovide for our family?? Who is going to end this war that has goneon long enough??? You can't tell me that you aren't aggravated thatOsama is still roaming the earth, but we are bringing democracy toIraq........as a NYer, who was there watching as GWB said he was goingto get Osama and then watch him also say he just doesn't have the timeto look for him because it isn't that important???? I was THERE, mylife was affected deeper than you'll ever know.........I watchedfriends bury their children, parents, etc. For months, I couldn'tdrive down the streets without seeing a funeral. So, yes, I'm biased.I'm entitled to MY opinion still, aren't I? I'm sorry if you don't like the comparisons of war vs. abortion, buthow is it different? Death is death and as much as the visual imagesof a baby being aborted horrifies me, so does the child lying on thestreet writhing with pain because he was strictly a "by-product" ofthis war.But are you aware where McCain stands on abortion and just whathe's voted for/against? Now, I know my "personal choice" statement is going to rattle a fewcages, but let me deflect some of that NOW before it starts......whatwe need as a nation is for all people to be treated with respect,despite the color of the skin, their religious preference, theirpersonal beliefs, where they choose to live, who they choose to livewith, etc. But the only way to eradicate abortion is througheducation AND assistance. Make adoptions more affordable for thefamily that wants to adopt a child, get adequate and appropriatefostering parents and help them financially, provide quality andaffordable health care, assist families with child care, enforce IDEAand inclusion, improve our schools, hold fathers who walk away fromtheir families accountable, etcI didn't post to persuade a vote for Obama and I didn't post to getattacked because of my political beliefs. I believe this discussionbelongs in another place, not here. My child has Down Syndrome, sodoes yours, so tell me again why exactly we are here???? The only way for these practices to be outlawed is through educationand awareness.........how does that video HELP the struggle andpromote the pleasure of raising a child with Down Syndrome??? Itdoesn't. Let me just say this............My eyes are WIDE open.........Are yours?Jacqui - proud and concerned mama of 5 children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 I very much believe that this conversation belongs here. If we don't tell the truth, who will. Certainly not those from Planned Parenthood. All you need to do is read the quotes of thier founder, to know where they stand about our kids, or any kids for that matter. Here is a beauty from Margarat Sanger. It can not be possible that her words are more valuable than ours. If she could spew this stuff that many years ago, I can share how I believe that people have a right to LIFE!! Thank you for advocating for this on this list. Read her Margaret Sangers words below to see what she thought of ur kids. Yes, our mentally defective kids are part of her unfit that were a menace to civilization. Her agenda is right on target with what is happening to day. To think her plans are coming to fruitation. YUCK! Well, I will not be quiet. I KNOW TOO MUCH!! " As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation.... On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective. Margaret Sanger. " The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda. " Birth Control Review, October 1921, page > > I was going to reply to this earlier, but got sidetracked by life at our > house;-) > > Anyway, I have a few comments to make.. > > You said: . " " I do believe abortion is > not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an > abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will > have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that > DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility " " ..end > quote > > > > To imply that the death of a child who does not have Ds is more wrong than > the death of a child w/Ds kind of boggles my mind. *Any* death due to > abortion is wrong. To abort a baby, then if the child is born alive.to leave > him or her to die is more than just a 'decision'. It is murder. Period. > > > > Of course the video was intended to influence people's votes.I am praying > that it WILL make people think. I don't understand how anyone could watch > that video, or hear about the Born Alive Protection Act, then vote for > anyone who voted against it..how can anyone justify *not* protecting those > poor babies? How can we close our eyes to the barbarity of that, and tell > ourselves that the truly important things are the economy, or education..or > health care? How can anyone respect a politician of any party who has made > his advancements at the cost of babies' lives? > > As far as my children's education, it is the responsibility of my husband > and myself to ensure that they are educated. It is not the federal > government's responsibility, or the state's. I don't think that it is the > government's responsibility to feed my family or provide child care or > health care.in fact, I wish they would get out of the way most of the time, > because I think that they meddle too much in our daily affairs. > > > > There is absolutely NO comparison between deaths due to war and deaths due > to abortion. Since Roe vs Wade, over 43 million babies have been sacrificed > to the goddess of 'choice'.(or the goddess of apathy) The deaths of > children in wars are truly a tragedy, but the sheer numbers of babies who > have been aborted far outweigh the number of children killed in wars-there > truly is no comparison, due the massive number of deaths due to abortion.and > the deaths of the children in wars are usually accidental.not deliberate, > like in an abortion. > > Yes, I believe that *my* eyes are indeed wide open. I can see abortion for > the horrible evil that it is. I can see that there is no excuse or > justification for the whole scale murder of babies that is going on in our > own country. I can see that if I don't speak out against abortion, or if I > vote for politicians that endorse abortion, then I am being an enabler of > abortion. But I also believe that if a woman has an abortion, and later > realizes that it was wrong and asks God to forgive her, He will. > > > > Education is not the only factor in stopping abortion. Personal > responsibility is also a huge factor..and people have to be told the truth > about abortion..it is not just a 'choice', it involves the taking of a human > life at ALL stages of the pregnancy. > > .to say that that video was invalid because it didn't " promote the pleasure > of raising a child with Down syndrome " really concerns me. Our society has > cheapened human life to the extent that it seems like babies have to *earn* > the right to live..babies have to be wanted, " normal " , and almost have a > guarantee that our lives with them will be better than without them. It is > true that my son Danny has enriched my life immeasurably , but the plain > truth of the matter is that he deserved to live whether or not *my* life > would have been improved. That video details the horrific practice of > delivering babies before term for the express purpose of letting them die. > That is barbaric. If a person is not moved by that video, they will not be > moved by a " warm and fuzzy " video. Not to say that there isn't a place for > positive awareness videos..but there is also a place for the cold, hard > facts to try to educate people about what late term abortions really are.. > > > > On our homepage, we specifically stated that this list would operate from a > pro-life standpoint. So I believe that this discussion DOES belong here. > With 90% of babies diagnosed prenatally with Ds being aborted, including > late term abortions, it is a very relevant topic for this list, > unfortunately. > > KathyR > > > > > > > > > > From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange > [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of jacquih1126 > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:06 AM > To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange > Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch > > > > Hello! > I AM that person who posted the comparison about abortion vs. > war.........my point was obviously missed. I do believe abortion is > not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an > abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will > have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that > DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility " . > The way that the facility was going about their practices was > nauseating. BUT I do believe that it is a personal decision. It > wasn't MY decision. > > My problem with the video is that awareness and education wasn't its > motive, it was meant to have an effect on parents of children with > Down Syndrome and parents in general, to tell them how to vote. Like > I stated, Obama isn't my first choice, but McCain isn't either. So we > have to look at MANY facets of all issues to determine who we feel > will be the best candidate. We can go to youtube right now and find > all sorts of " exposing " videos, but what does that prove? Our nation > right now is the laughing stock of the world. I'm not interested in > the mud slinging, I'm interested in ALL the facts. Who is going to > ensure that my child gets the education that he is entitled to? Who > is going to ensure that my children will have access to decent and > affordable healthcare? Who even knows what " affordable " is?? Who is > going to protect my child's rights under IDEA and ADA? Who is going > to help stabilize the economy so that our friends don't continue to > lose their homes, we don't lose our jobs and we can continue to > provide for our family?? Who is going to end this war that has gone > on long enough??? You can't tell me that you aren't aggravated that > Osama is still roaming the earth, but we are bringing democracy to > Iraq........as a NYer, who was there watching as GWB said he was going > to get Osama and then watch him also say he just doesn't have the time > to look for him because it isn't that important???? I was THERE, my > life was affected deeper than you'll ever know.........I watched > friends bury their children, parents, etc. For months, I couldn't > drive down the streets without seeing a funeral. So, yes, I'm biased. > I'm entitled to MY opinion still, aren't I? > > I'm sorry if you don't like the comparisons of war vs. abortion, but > how is it different? Death is death and as much as the visual images > of a baby being aborted horrifies me, so does the child lying on the > street writhing with pain because he was strictly a " by-product " of > this war. > > But are you aware where McCain stands on abortion and just what > he's voted for/against? > > Now, I know my " personal choice " statement is going to rattle a few > cages, but let me deflect some of that NOW before it starts......what > we need as a nation is for all people to be treated with respect, > despite the color of the skin, their religious preference, their > personal beliefs, where they choose to live, who they choose to live > with, etc. But the only way to eradicate abortion is through > education AND assistance. Make adoptions more affordable for the > family that wants to adopt a child, get adequate and appropriate > fostering parents and help them financially, provide quality and > affordable health care, assist families with child care, enforce IDEA > and inclusion, improve our schools, hold fathers who walk away from > their families accountable, etc > > I didn't post to persuade a vote for Obama and I didn't post to get > attacked because of my political beliefs. I believe this discussion > belongs in another place, not here. My child has Down Syndrome, so > does yours, so tell me again why exactly we are here???? > > The only way for these practices to be outlawed is through education > and awareness.........how does that video HELP the struggle and > promote the pleasure of raising a child with Down Syndrome??? It > doesn't. > > Let me just say this............My eyes are WIDE open.........Are yours? > > Jacqui - proud and concerned mama of 5 children > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Yes, Margaret Sanger had charming name for ‘blacks, immigrants, and the indigent’, also …she called them ‘human weeds’. http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm What a woman. Here is another article that goes along with the subject of late term abortions: http://www.discovery.org/a/3380 From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of mblessed5t Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:48 PM To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Please Watch I very much believe that this conversation belongs here. If we don't tell the truth, who will. Certainly not those from Planned Parenthood. All you need to do is read the quotes of thier founder, to know where they stand about our kids, or any kids for that matter. Here is a beauty from Margarat Sanger. It can not be possible that her words are more valuable than ours. If she could spew this stuff that many years ago, I can share how I believe that people have a right to LIFE!! Thank you for advocating for this on this list. Read her Margaret Sangers words below to see what she thought of ur kids. Yes, our mentally defective kids are part of her unfit that were a menace to civilization. Her agenda is right on target with what is happening to day. To think her plans are coming to fruitation. YUCK! Well, I will not be quiet. I KNOW TOO MUCH!! " As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation.... On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective. Margaret Sanger. " The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda. " Birth Control Review, October 1921, page > > I was going to reply to this earlier, but got sidetracked by life at our > house;-) > > Anyway, I have a few comments to make.. > > You said: . " " I do believe abortion is > not a form of birth control and I do also believe that having an > abortion strictly because a " screening " tells you that your child will > have Down Syndrome, is wrong. Especially when more children that > DON'T have Down Syndrome are being aborted because of a " possibility " " ..end > quote > > > > To imply that the death of a child who does not have Ds is more wrong than > the death of a child w/Ds kind of boggles my mind. *Any* death due to > abortion is wrong. To abort a baby, then if the child is born alive.to leave > him or her to die is more than just a 'decision'. It is murder. Period. > > > > Of course the video was intended to influence people's votes.I am praying > that it WILL make people think. I don't understand how anyone could watch > that video, or hear about the Born Alive Protection Act, then vote for > anyone who voted against it..how can anyone justify *not* protecting those > poor babies? How can we close our eyes to the barbarity of that, and tell > ourselves that the truly important things are the economy, or education..or > health care? How can anyone respect a politician of any party who has made > his advancements at the cost of babies' lives? > > As far as my children's education, it is the responsibility of my husband > and myself to ensure that they are educated. It is not the federal > government's responsibility, or the state's. I don't think that it is the > government's responsibility to feed my family or provide child care or > health care.in fact, I wish they would get out of the way most of the time, > because I think that they meddle too much in our daily affairs. > > > > There is absolutely NO comparison between deaths due to war and deaths due > to abortion. Since Roe vs Wade, over 43 million babies have been sacrificed > to the goddess of 'choice'.(or the goddess of apathy) The deaths of > children in wars are truly a tragedy, but the sheer numbers of babies who > have been aborted far outweigh the number of children killed in wars-there > truly is no comparison, due the massive number of deaths due to abortion.and > the deaths of the children in wars are usually accidental.not deliberate, > like in an abortion. > > Yes, I believe that *my* eyes are indeed wide open. I can see abortion for > the horrible evil that it is. I can see that there is no excuse or > justification for the whole scale murder of babies that is going on in our > own country. I can see that if I don't speak out against abortion, or if I > vote for politicians that endorse abortion, then I am being an enabler of > abortion. But I also believe that if a woman has an abortion, and later > realizes that it was wrong and asks God to forgive her, He will. > > > > Education is not the only factor in stopping abortion. Personal > responsibility is also a huge factor..and people have to be told the truth > about abortion..it is not just a 'choice', it involves the taking of a human > life at ALL stages of the pregnancy. > > .to say that that video was invalid because it didn't " promote the pleasure > of raising a child with Down syndrome " really concerns me. Our society has > cheapened human life to the extent that it seems like babies have to *earn* > the right to live..babies have to be wanted, " normal " , and almost have a > guarantee that our lives with them will be better than without them. It is > true that my son Danny has enriched my life immeasurably , but the plain > truth of the matter is that he deserved to live whether or not *my* life > would have been improved. That video details the horrific practice of > delivering babies before term for the express purpose of letting them die. > That is barbaric. If a person is not moved by that video, they will not be > moved by a " warm and fuzzy " video. Not to say that there isn't a place for > positive awareness videos..but there is also a place for the cold, hard > facts to try to educate people about what late term abortions really are.. > > > > On our homepage, we specifically stated that this list would operate from a > pro-life standpoint. So I believe that this discussion DOES belong here. > With 90% of babies diagnosed prenatally with Ds being aborted, including > late term abortions, it is a very relevant topic for this list, > unfortunately. > > KathyR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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