RE: DTT vs VB

[Guest guest]

You've hit the nail on the head, and unfortunately there is no easy answer.

Personally, I would go for the mixed approach. I have seen benefits with

both DTT and VB. Ultimately it comes down to an individualized program.

There are benefits to what Carbone calls tabletop teaching or DTT and also

benefits to doing some of the more VB based things. My advice (for what it's

worth ) is to do a combination. Talk to your consultant, s/he should be

willing to work with you and if s/he doesn't agree with your thoughts on

this, then ask that the reasoning be explained more to you. Quite frankly,

some consultants don't feel comfortable mixing approaches and it varies

person to person. Studies have shown the effectiveness of ABA, DTT and VB

both fall under the principles of ABA. Some argue more strenuously for one

or other and I think there are valid points on both sides. I personally lean

more towards the DTT for academics and VB for increasing language There is

great benefit however to interspersing trials, having a fast pace, and some

of the other VB " principles " . I have worked at or with several different

schools here in NJ and I have found that the best thing out of that is I

have been able to pick out each school's strengths. It has helped me do my

job better since I have a wider view and frame of reference. Not everything

works with every kid and there are benefits to sign as there are to PECS. In

my opinion, VB and DTT share more similiarities than differences, but the

best approach would probably to talk more with the consultant and find out

if s/he is willing to work with you on keeping some things in VB format. I

think you can successfully incorporate the two together for a blend as long

as it is done right and clearly defined.

Best of luck

Umstead

Executive Director

Beautiful Minds of Princeton

" Helping Unlock Potential Every Day "

P.O. Box 1143

Princeton, NJ 08540

609-417-0010

[ ] DTT vs VB

Hi,

I'm hoping I can get opinions from others parents:

For the last few months we'd worked with a VB consultant (very

limited, but seeing progress). The VB consultant never really got our

program off the ground; however, the consultant we interviewed

yesterday thinks our little one is more in need of DTT than VB at the

present despite the fact that she is non-verbal.

I'm not an educator and am very new to all this ABA, DTT, VB, RDI

stuff and quite frankly it is exhausting and simply overwhelming.

Everyone seems to be touting this method or that and sometimes we are

just out and out confused. We are not sold on any one technigue or

method and are looking for the best program for our daughter. It's

very difficult to know where to hang your hat and to feel confident

it is the right approach. At the same time, we feel forced to go with

something in lieu of having nothing at all and depending on the

county program - we know that would be a big mistake. However, we

don't have time or money to waste on consultants or therapies that in

the end produce little results.

If I'm interrupting the consultant correctly, she wants to focus more

on DTT in the beginning and then later bring in VB. My concern is

that we've already spent the last few months getting my daughter to

imitate vocally....before she was not able to do that...and although

it's not much, it's a step in the right direction and I'd hate to

lose what little progress we've made.

Our daughter is very bright I'd like for us to work on not just one

or the other...can't we do both: employ DTT to teach cognitive goals

& fine motor goals while at the same time implementing a VB program

for her receptive/expressive communication goals or is there

something I'm missing?

I think we did lose some of the benefits of DTT (in learning

cognitive goals) and saw our daughter's progress slowed in those

goals while working with the VB consultant. Did we just not get the

right picture from the VB consultant. Is this new consultant's idea

of wanting to delay VB until later - valid or wise? My daughter is

now 3.5yrs old. We've been anquish for her to gain speech. She is

signing more and more, but we normally still have to prompt her for

the sign. Her self-motivated manding is not strong.

Recently we purchased some signing dvd's from Signing Time. My

daughter loves them and has since started signing more without being

prompted.

I'd like to hear what others think.

Thanks,

S. Brewster

[Guest guest]

I would certainly not delay starting VB. My son did DTT for 5 years until

age 7 and was still not talking. Then we switched to VB, and within 6

months of that he had begun to talk. He was also MUCH happier!

With a small child, you want to do a lot of play and get a lot of manding.

With the little ones at Mariposa, they don't get near a table for a LONG

time, and then only for a very short while.

You can learn more about VB by visiting our website. There is a training

manual that may help you to sort things out. There is also a copy of a

presentation I gave at the Autism One conference last year that will give

you an overview of what makes a good VB program.

My guess is that the consultant you interviewed yesterday doesn't really

" buy in " to VB. In my experience, this often means they know how to do

things " the old way " but haven't taken the time to learn and understand the

newer methods like VB.

s (Cary, NC)

persistentC@...

President and Executive Director

The Mariposa School for Children with Autism

www.MariposaSchool.org

919-461-0600

[ ] DTT vs VB

Hi,

I'm hoping I can get opinions from others parents:

For the last few months we'd worked with a VB consultant (very

limited, but seeing progress). The VB consultant never really got our

program off the ground; however, the consultant we interviewed

yesterday thinks our little one is more in need of DTT than VB at the

present despite the fact that she is non-verbal.

I'm not an educator and am very new to all this ABA, DTT, VB, RDI

stuff and quite frankly it is exhausting and simply overwhelming.

Everyone seems to be touting this method or that and sometimes we are

just out and out confused. We are not sold on any one technigue or

method and are looking for the best program for our daughter. It's

very difficult to know where to hang your hat and to feel confident

it is the right approach. At the same time, we feel forced to go with

something in lieu of having nothing at all and depending on the

county program - we know that would be a big mistake. However, we

don't have time or money to waste on consultants or therapies that in

the end produce little results.

If I'm interrupting the consultant correctly, she wants to focus more

on DTT in the beginning and then later bring in VB. My concern is

that we've already spent the last few months getting my daughter to

imitate vocally....before she was not able to do that...and although

it's not much, it's a step in the right direction and I'd hate to

lose what little progress we've made.

Our daughter is very bright I'd like for us to work on not just one

or the other...can't we do both: employ DTT to teach cognitive goals

& fine motor goals while at the same time implementing a VB program

for her receptive/expressive communication goals or is there

something I'm missing?

I think we did lose some of the benefits of DTT (in learning

cognitive goals) and saw our daughter's progress slowed in those

goals while working with the VB consultant. Did we just not get the

right picture from the VB consultant. Is this new consultant's idea

of wanting to delay VB until later - valid or wise? My daughter is

now 3.5yrs old. We've been anquish for her to gain speech. She is

signing more and more, but we normally still have to prompt her for

the sign. Her self-motivated manding is not strong.

Recently we purchased some signing dvd's from Signing Time. My

daughter loves them and has since started signing more without being

prompted.

I'd like to hear what others think.

Thanks,

S. Brewster

List moderators: Jenn - ABAqueen1@...

Steph - Stephhulshof@...

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[Guest guest]

VB and DTT should both be a part of a good ABA program that is based on

your child's needs. How drills are done, (using NET or ITT, mixed

trials, short inter-trial intervals, errorless learning, etc.), should

be based in research and changed if they are not successful for your

child.

The second person you talked to doesn't seem to know what VB means.

Many people think that verbal behavior just means talking. The way ABA

programs have previously been run (and many still are), expressive

language was taught only after imitation, matching, and receptive skills

that were considered prerequisites were mastered. So in this

consultant's mind, you don't teach " VB " until the student can match

identical pictures of a bed and receptively identify pictures of a bed.

Then you could teach the expressive label " bed " (tact). Then it is not

until much later (many months to years later) that you would teach bed

as an Intraverbal - " What do you sleep in? " and the program would be

called functions of objects or something similar. Requesting bed is one

of the last things taught if it is taught at all unless the student is

using PECS.

When you understand Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior and the

supporting research, you know that verbal behavior does not refer simply

to vocalizations. Verbal behavior is how we communicate with each other

and more importantly WHY we communicate with each other. A consultant

who wants to teach bed using this analysis would first want to create a

motivation for the bed. When the child wants the bed, we teach them to

ask for it either via vocalization, sign language, or picture

exchange/pointing. Then we might teach it as a tact and Intraverbal at

the same time. Matching is not a prerequisite and can be taught at any

point in an early to intermediate learner's program. Bed does not

necessarily have to be a target though. Receptive can be probed and

taught if necessary after it is mastered as a tact.

I hope this clarifies the difference for you. Please contact me if

anyone has further questions.

Sincerely,

e Quinby

Behavior Consultant

www.autismbehaviorconsult.com <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/>

[ ] DTT vs VB

Hi,

I'm hoping I can get opinions from others parents:

For the last few months we'd worked with a VB consultant (very

limited, but seeing progress). The VB consultant never really got our

program off the ground; however, the consultant we interviewed

yesterday thinks our little one is more in need of DTT than VB at the

present despite the fact that she is non-verbal.

I'm not an educator and am very new to all this ABA, DTT, VB, RDI

stuff and quite frankly it is exhausting and simply overwhelming.

Everyone seems to be touting this method or that and sometimes we are

just out and out confused. We are not sold on any one technigue or

method and are looking for the best program for our daughter. It's

very difficult to know where to hang your hat and to feel confident

it is the right approach. At the same time, we feel forced to go with

something in lieu of having nothing at all and depending on the

county program - we know that would be a big mistake. However, we

don't have time or money to waste on consultants or therapies that in

the end produce little results.

If I'm interrupting the consultant correctly, she wants to focus more

on DTT in the beginning and then later bring in VB. My concern is

that we've already spent the last few months getting my daughter to

imitate vocally....before she was not able to do that...and although

it's not much, it's a step in the right direction and I'd hate to

lose what little progress we've made.

Our daughter is very bright I'd like for us to work on not just one

or the other...can't we do both: employ DTT to teach cognitive goals

& fine motor goals while at the same time implementing a VB program

for her receptive/expressive communication goals or is there

something I'm missing?

I think we did lose some of the benefits of DTT (in learning

cognitive goals) and saw our daughter's progress slowed in those

goals while working with the VB consultant. Did we just not get the

right picture from the VB consultant. Is this new consultant's idea

of wanting to delay VB until later - valid or wise? My daughter is

now 3.5yrs old. We've been anquish for her to gain speech. She is

signing more and more, but we normally still have to prompt her for

the sign. Her self-motivated manding is not strong.

Recently we purchased some signing dvd's from Signing Time. My

daughter loves them and has since started signing more without being

prompted.

I'd like to hear what others think.

Thanks,

S. Brewster