Re: Pentylenetetrazole, Prozac, Gingko, etc. and mouse models

[Guest guest]

That is all very true. :-)Again.. if you use it, it's on your own with no research to back it up.So far we have had no side effects from it, no complaints. Carol in ILMom to , 8 DS My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.VOTE NOBAMA '08Join our Down Syndrome information group - http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace. com/vennamusic Re: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] Pentylenetetrazole, Prozac, Gingko, etc. and mouse models

No one is recommending the Prozac- gingko is OK

[Guest guest]

As with any PhD, Dr. Craig Garner COULD NOT and WOULD NOT recommend ANY medicines or dosages in humans. He is a PhD that does research, not an MD. This is why we, as parents, have the CHOICE to take this research information and present it to our MD's for interpretation and recommendation.

As for the use of Prozac in humans, it was developed in 1971 and is used by over 54 million people world wide. It is the only anti-depressant approved by the FDA (in 2003) for use in children over the age of 7. You can read about the two placebo based clinical trials in children the FDA Talk Paper at http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2003/ANS01187.html

For more animal research information about why you and your doctor may CHOOSE to use Prozac in your child with Down syndrome to promote neurogenesis (production of new neurons) you can read an article called "Fluoxetine rescues deficient neurogenesis in hippocampus of the Ts65Dn mouse model for Down syndrome "

aDept. of Pharmacology and Exp. Therapeutics, University of land School of Medicine, 655 W. Baltimore Street, Baltimore, MD 21201-1509, USA bEleanor Roosevelt Institute, University of Denver, Denver, CO 80206, USA cDepartment of Psychiatry, University of Colorado Health Science Center, Denver, CO 80262, USA

Received 20 November 2005;

revised 2 February 2006;

accepted 6 February 2006.

Available online 19 April 2006.

Here is a link to it online

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL & _udi=B6WFG-4JS1N0W-5 & _coverDate=04%2F19%2F2006 & _alid=422948215 & _rdoc=1 & _fmt= & _orig=search & _qd=1 & _cdi=6794 & _sort=d & view=c & _acct=C000050221 & _version=1 & _urlVersion=0 & _userid=10 & md5=dde5c9f217090fc29d876df5b1d7ad94

Here is another article relating to neurogenesis http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/02/the_reinvention_of_the_self.php

As for the use of Gingko Biloba. The following excerpt is taken from the article, "Bilobalide, a sesquiterpene trilactone from Ginkgo biloba, is anantagonist at recombinant a1h2g2L GABAA receptors".

"A study has indicated that the cognition-enhancing effects of the ginkgo leaf extract may be partly mediated by bilobalide

via GABA receptors (Sasaki et al., 1999b). Enhanced hippocampal pyramidal neuronal excitability has been

shown to correlate with learning and memory (Power et al., 1997), and bilobalide has been shown to enhance this

excitability in rat hippocampal slices (Sasaki et al., 1999b). This action of bilobalide was proposed to involve blockade

of GABAergic neurotransmission (Sasaki et al., 1999b)."

You can read the article in its entirety at http://www.usyd.edu.au/pharmacology/aalab/RefsPDFs/354.pdf .

Christy

>> I think for the sake of clarity, it is worth noting that the scientific studies of pentylenetetrazole (PTZ) to date only involve mice - not people. There have been no trials of and GABA antagonists, Prozac and so on in humans. Therefore, long-term safety, undesirable side-effects, etc. are not known:> > http://dsresearch.stanford.edu/community/archive_issue_09.html> http://www.down-syndrome.org/updates/2037/> > We know from the history of megavitamins and then so-called 'Targeted Nutritional Intervention', Piracetam and so on that claims of 'miracle breakthroughs' frequently do not stand up to serious scientific investigation:> > http://www.ds-health.com/vitamin.htm> http://www.ds-health.com/piracet.htm> http://www.down-syndrome.org/perspectives/144/> http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/336/7644/594> > I talked to Craig Garner at some length a few weeks ago. He is very eager to progress to trials to establish dosage, safety and (hopefully) efficacy of PTZ (or, one of a few other alternative candidate drugs with similar actions) in humans with Down syndrome. He is not recommending the use Gingko, Prozac, Piracetam, or indeed PTZ in children or adults at this time.> > At this time the role of these particular neurotransmitters, the effects of the APP gene (and, for that matter, all other genes) in learning and memory in humans with Down syndrome are hypothetical. Mouse studies are suggestive of important links, but they do not confirm what, in fact, takes place in humans.> > Even at a molecular level, the genetically engineered mouse models are far from complete. There are approximately 540 putative genes on human chromosome 21 of which around 200-300 may be protein coding. In corresponding regions of mouse DNA, approximately 430 have been identified, but only 200 appear sufficiently similar to be likely to have the same functions as in humans. Of 170 genes found on human chromosome 21 and in mice, 112 are found on mouse chromosome 16. The Ts65Dn mouse (on which most of the studies are based) has an extra copy of a section of mouse chromosome 16 containing around 94 of these genes.> > Using studies involving these mice as "the basis" for drug therapies in people with Down syndrome is mistaken and potentially dangerous.> > As far as I am aware, you will not find Craig Garner, or anyone else at Stanford, recommending these compounds for use with people with Down syndrome today.> > All the more reason for supporting continuing scientific studies.> > With kind regards,> > > > Buckley> > Down Syndrome Education International> www.downsed.org>

[Guest guest]

Yes, these are the FDA approved conditions Prozac is prescribed for. However, that doesn't mean that Prozac cannot be prescribed for younger children for different reasons, such as to attempt neurogenesis. In fact, many drugs are not FDA approved for use in kids, but are still used 'off-label', meaning that they are used in children younger that the approved age or for other conditions that they are not approved for yet. In fact, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, 'three fourths of the prescription drugs currently marketed in the United States lack pediatric use information.' The use of albuterol to treat children with asthma is a good example of the safe 'off-label' use of a drug. Although commonly used in infants and toddlers, albuterol is only FDA approved for use in children over age 2 years. Many other asthma medications, such as Flovent, Serevent, and Advair are only FDA approved for use in children over age 12 years.

This is an example of why parents must educate themselves about what is happening with current research and if they CHOOSE to do so, take the information to their doctor and decide what is right for THEIR child. I am not looking for a "Down syndrome treatment". I am looking for a treatment that could potentially improve my child's cognitive ability. Lower cognitive function is a condition that is associated with Down syndrome. Additionally, I am seeking physical therapy and occupational therapy for poor muscle tone, conditions associated with Down syndrome. I am also seeking the best speech therapy, possible or proven treatments, because poor speech is also a condition associated with Down syndrome.

Christy

>> "Prozac is used to treat Depression, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Bulemia Nervosa, and Panic Disorder" - not Down syndrome:> > http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/InfoSheets/patient/FluoxetinePIS.pdf> > Among the significant side-effects, bleeding problems might be of particular concern when combined with Ginkgo.> > > ----------------------------> From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of kayc0911> Sent: 30 September 2008 15:46> To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange > Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re: Pentylenetetrazole, Prozac, Gingko, etc. and mouse models> > ...As for the use of Prozac in humans, it was developed in 1971 and is used by over 54 million people world wide. It is the only anti-depressant approved by the FDA (in 2003) for use in children over the age of 7...>