Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on Armour

[Guest guest]

I finally got my adrenal saliva tests. I haven’t

been able to talk with a doctor, yet. I’d love to hear comments or

suggestions for next steps or what I should ask my doc. I don’t

want to do herbals since I am nursing and to me my results warrant more of an intervention.

Am I off base on this?

Cortisol

7-8 am 12 Depressed (13-24)

11-noon 2 Depressed (5-10)

4-5pm 1 Depressed (3-8)

11-mid 1 Normal (1-4)

cortisol burden: 16 (23-42)

* test says suggestive of marginal HPA performance (?) This suggests I

should request the ACTH test, right?

I am also feeling more hypo after 3.5 weeks on Armour.

Hair loss, cold hands and feet, depression (sometimes bad, sometimes mild), no

sex drive, constipation, brain fog, sore legs when I walk, low stamina.

Extreme stress and reactivity (yelling at my kids way too easily and way too often)

– I think this is probably more adrenals, right? I’ll ask the

doc about it, but wanted to see if this can be something other than needing a

higher dose of Armour.

Sex hormones are also out of whack. Estrogen normal,

but progesterone low and testosterone high and estrogen/progesterone ratio way

off…estrogen dominant.

I sure would like to feel like a more normal human being again.

[Guest guest]

Grace, yes you should get the ACTH test. Your adrenal tests are

quite low. How much Armour does your doctor have you taking? Some

of your symptoms sound like adrenal and others sound like hypo.

Fixing adrenals and thyroid should improve the sex hormones some.

You may need to fix the adrenal issue so that you can increase your

Armour. You should also have your ferritin levels tested. Do you

know what your thyroid levels are?

Pat

>

> I finally got my adrenal saliva tests. I haven't been able to talk

with a

> doctor, yet. I'd love to hear comments or suggestions for next

steps or

> what I should ask my doc. I don't want to do herbals since I am

nursing and

> to me my results warrant more of an intervention. Am I off base on

this?

>

>

>

> Cortisol

> 7-8 am 12 Depressed (13-24)

> 11-noon 2 Depressed (5-10)

> 4-5pm 1 Depressed (3-8)

> 11-mid 1 Normal (1-4)

> cortisol burden: 16 (23-42)

> * test says suggestive of marginal HPA performance (?) This

suggests I

> should request the ACTH test, right?

>

>

>

> I am also feeling more hypo after 3.5 weeks on Armour. Hair loss,

cold

> hands and feet, depression (sometimes bad, sometimes mild), no sex

drive,

> constipation, brain fog, sore legs when I walk, low stamina.

Extreme stress

> and reactivity (yelling at my kids way too easily and way too

often) - I

> think this is probably more adrenals, right? I'll ask the doc

about it, but

> wanted to see if this can be something other than needing a higher

dose of

> Armour.

>

>

>

> Sex hormones are also out of whack. Estrogen normal, but

progesterone low

> and testosterone high and estrogen/progesterone ratio way

off.estrogen

> dominant.

>

>

>

> I sure would like to feel like a more normal human being again.

>

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Thanks for the response!

My ferritin was 64 in early July. I think I would like to

add iron to try to get that just a touch higher to the optimal range, but I

haven’t at this point. I will ask if we can do a new ferritin this

week with the ACTH and thyroid labs. Anything else I should check?

B12 and folate were high at last check in July.

My last thyroid labs were Aug 21st and my synthetic

dose had not been stable.

FT3: 2.8 (2.3 – 4.2)

FT4: 1.2 (.73 – 1.95)

TSH: 1.8 (0.3 – 5.1)

My doc prescribed 1.25 grains Armour based on the above labs at

75 mcg synthroid. HOWEVER, those labs were not really on 75 mcg synthroid

because my dose had been all over the place for the last 2 months (see

below). My previous doc was moving me up quickly to get me where I needed

to be, but I was getting really confused and cloudy-headed. I never did

get hyper symptoms and he was checking ankle reflexes and they still showed hypo.

The worst part was just the way my brain fog and confusion got worse and worse

and worse on the higher dosages. That is why I dropped back to 75 and

started to look for a new doc.

After a couple of weeks on 1.25 grains, I called her office and

said I wanted her okay to go up to 1.5 grains. So I’ve been on 1.5

for about 2 weeks and 1.25 for about 1.5 weeks.

Meds taken most recently up to day of test:

17 days immediately before: 75 mcg synthroid

1 day before that: 100 mcg

5 days before that: 100 mg & 10 mcg cytomel

5 days before that: 100 mcg & 15 mcg cytomel

4 days before that: 100 mcg & 10 mcg cytomel

3 days before that: 100 mcg 5 mcg cytomel

9 days before that: 100 mcg synthroid

2 weeks before that 88 mcg synthroid

2 weeks before that 75 mcg synthroid

1 year plus before that 50 mcg

Etc…the rest is a bit irrelevant at this point except at

75 mcg synthroid in 12/06 my FT3 was only 254 (230 – 420).

I would love to see how I feel with a high FT3. I don’t

think I’ve ever really had that in the 12 years I’ve been on meds.

Grace

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of pproft

Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:48 PM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on

Armour

Grace, yes you should get the ACTH test. Your

adrenal tests are

quite low. How much Armour does your doctor have you taking? Some

of your symptoms sound like adrenal and others sound like hypo.

Fixing adrenals and thyroid should improve the sex hormones some.

You may need to fix the adrenal issue so that you can increase your

Armour. You should also have your ferritin levels tested. Do you

know what your thyroid levels are?

Pat

>

> I finally got my adrenal saliva tests. I haven't been able to talk

with a

> doctor, yet. I'd love to hear comments or suggestions for next

steps or

> what I should ask my doc. I don't want to do herbals since I am

nursing and

> to me my results warrant more of an intervention. Am I off base on

this?

>

>

>

> Cortisol

> 7-8 am 12 Depressed (13-24)

> 11-noon 2 Depressed (5-10)

> 4-5pm 1 Depressed (3-8)

> 11-mid 1 Normal (1-4)

> cortisol burden: 16 (23-42)

> * test says suggestive of marginal HPA performance (?) This

suggests I

> should request the ACTH test, right?

>

>

>

> I am also feeling more hypo after 3.5 weeks on Armour. Hair loss,

cold

> hands and feet, depression (sometimes bad, sometimes mild), no sex

drive,

> constipation, brain fog, sore legs when I walk, low stamina.

Extreme stress

> and reactivity (yelling at my kids way too easily and way too

often) - I

> think this is probably more adrenals, right? I'll ask the doc

about it, but

> wanted to see if this can be something other than needing a higher

dose of

> Armour.

>

>

>

> Sex hormones are also out of whack. Estrogen normal, but

progesterone low

> and testosterone high and estrogen/progesterone ratio way

off.estrogen

> dominant.

>

>

>

> I sure would like to feel like a more normal human being again.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Grace,

slight unrelated, but I found that my second son weaned on his own

fairly easily when I just started reading to him (with him on my

lap) before we would nurse - that seemed to satisfy his desire for

closeness. Also, it might be easier to spread the process out over 2-

3 weeks. For both my boys, the time between nursings got further and

further apart at age 2 to the point that it was just once a month at

times of crisis and then two months went by and then they were

done.

As others have mentioned, just beware of the Iodine reaction - it

almost always sent me hyper first then VERY dramatically hypo.

However, once I got my dosage stabilized it has no impact. Likely

because my TSH is suppressed, thus my thyroid isn't trying to make

use of the Iodine. But, I think when you've got hashi's the thyroid

is just dramatically inconsistent as to what it does with that

Iodine.

Given how much variability you've had in dosing, likely you wouldn't

get much new info even if she did run labs before you try this

experiment. But, if you have hashi's then there's definitely room

for increases.

Also, does she have you on the basic nutrients for adrenals (B5,

vitamin C) or are those things in the adrenal supplement. I would

think that you could add the B5 and vitamin C until after you've

weaned to get some more adrenal support.

B.

> >

> > I finally got my adrenal saliva tests. I haven't been able to

talk

> with a

> > doctor, yet. I'd love to hear comments or suggestions for next

> steps or

> > what I should ask my doc. I don't want to do herbals since I am

> nursing and

> > to me my results warrant more of an intervention. Am I off base

on

> this?

> >

> >

> >

> > Cortisol

> > 7-8 am 12 Depressed (13-24)

> > 11-noon 2 Depressed (5-10)

> > 4-5pm 1 Depressed (3-8)

> > 11-mid 1 Normal (1-4)

> > cortisol burden: 16 (23-42)

> > * test says suggestive of marginal HPA performance (?) This

> suggests I

> > should request the ACTH test, right?

> >

> >

> >

> > I am also feeling more hypo after 3.5 weeks on Armour. Hair

loss,

> cold

> > hands and feet, depression (sometimes bad, sometimes mild), no

sex

> drive,

> > constipation, brain fog, sore legs when I walk, low stamina.

> Extreme stress

> > and reactivity (yelling at my kids way too easily and way too

> often) - I

> > think this is probably more adrenals, right? I'll ask the doc

> about it, but

> > wanted to see if this can be something other than needing a

higher

> dose of

> > Armour.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sex hormones are also out of whack. Estrogen normal, but

> progesterone low

> > and testosterone high and estrogen/progesterone ratio way

> off.estrogen

> > dominant.

> >

> >

> >

> > I sure would like to feel like a more normal human being again.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Why does this doctor say that she can't treat you in the same manner

she has herself in terms of a higher end T3? That seems really

wacky since it appears she knows that symptom resolution is most

important.

I would persist in asking for increases in your T3 dosing - ask her

about giving you very small increments and assure her that you will

do so very gradually, allow x amount of time between increases, only

increase when symptoms return signficantly, etc. Also, have you had

an EKG or cardio stress test? It is really important that docs run

those when they're adding more than what's considered a " normal "

amount of T3 (or Armour). Perhaps, if you tell her or ask her about

that, she'll realize you're serious about doing what's best overall

healthwise, but that it is really important to you to get thyroid

dosed optimally.

As far as supplements and Adrenals, I notice a significant

difference if I drop my amount of B5, as well as skip my Emer-gen-C

packet in the afternoon.

B.

>

> Thanks, Kim. Does anyone else have suggestions for doctors who

treat

> adrenals for me?

>

>

>

> I am feeling a bit frustrated and discouraged. Especially when I

express

> how I want to get my thyroid up and the doc says she felt best

with her FT3

> at 4.7, but can't do that for patients.

>

> I hope the iodine does make a positive difference. I am already

at the

> point that I need to cut off my hair I was growing out because it

has gotten

> so thin and scraggly that it looks HORRIBLE! Even my husband has

commented

> on how much hair I am losing!

>

>

>

> I do wonder how much the supplements will help. She said her

adrenals were

> flatline so I guess the fact that mine was 12 in the morning makes

her think

> it's not so bad.

>

>

>

>

>

> From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Kim in

No Texas

> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:30 PM

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

feeling hypo on

> Armour

>

>

>

> I wonder if Dr Manzanero treats adrenals with HC?

>

>

>

> I guess you don't have anything to lose with trying the

supplements, except

> having to wean your sweet baby. ;-( I feel for you.

>

>

>

> I did the saliva tests prior to seeing Dr R. My results were not

as low as

> yours. I know that being on HC has made such a difference for

me. Just the

> last small dosage increase made a big difference.

>

>

>

> Kim in No Texas

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Grace M

> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 PM

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

feeling hypo on

> Armour

>

>

>

> As I understand it.Just the metagenics for adrenals. The iodoral

is for

> iodine/thyroid.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes. I agree it is wacky. She even talked about a

patient she wanted to increase but her labs wouldn’t let her. Then after

being on Iodoral for a bit her labs showed hypo and she increased her armour.

It would not even be a higher than normal dose. I am only

at 90mg right now! I didn’t push it because I don’t know how

the iodine will affect things. I would get another opinion, but I don’t

know how it would work to see her for the iodine and someone else for my

armour, etc. Though I am tempted!

I was taking 3 Emergen-Cs per day and I think it was

helping. I did take one today, but I had slacked off for a while. I

have never added B5. Is that one of the safe water soluable ones?

Also, your other note about weaning was interesting. I

have been reading more to him at night (with him on my lap) and I noticed he is

not nursing as long and is also willing to stop with a little nudge and then go

to sleep. I do think the cuddles are the most important. My oldest

weaned himself right before number two was born, so I’ve never really led

the process.

I don’t think I am Hashi’s, but I know you said it

is still possible. The load test with 50mg iodoral didn’t affect me

at all, so hopefully it will be fairly smooth. Do you think it would be a

mistake to look for another doc to handle my Armour? I am so tired of dr.

hopping!!!

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of mhbarnes_99

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:56 PM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on

Armour

Why does this doctor say that she can't treat

you in the same manner

she has herself in terms of a higher end T3? That seems really

wacky since it appears she knows that symptom resolution is most

important.

I would persist in asking for increases in your T3 dosing - ask her

about giving you very small increments and assure her that you will

do so very gradually, allow x amount of time between increases, only

increase when symptoms return signficantly, etc. Also, have you had

an EKG or cardio stress test? It is really important that docs run

those when they're adding more than what's considered a " normal "

amount of T3 (or Armour). Perhaps, if you tell her or ask her about

that, she'll realize you're serious about doing what's best overall

healthwise, but that it is really important to you to get thyroid

dosed optimally.

As far as supplements and Adrenals, I notice a significant

difference if I drop my amount of B5, as well as skip my Emer-gen-C

packet in the afternoon.

B.

>

> Thanks, Kim. Does anyone else have suggestions for doctors who

treat

> adrenals for me?

>

>

>

> I am feeling a bit frustrated and discouraged. Especially when I

express

> how I want to get my thyroid up and the doc says she felt best

with her FT3

> at 4.7, but can't do that for patients.

>

> I hope the iodine does make a positive difference. I am already

at the

> point that I need to cut off my hair I was growing out because it

has gotten

> so thin and scraggly that it looks HORRIBLE! Even my husband has

commented

> on how much hair I am losing!

>

>

>

> I do wonder how much the supplements will help. She said her

adrenals were

> flatline so I guess the fact that mine was 12 in the morning makes

her think

> it's not so bad.

>

>

>

>

>

> From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ]

On Behalf Of Kim in

No Texas

> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:30 PM

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

feeling hypo on

> Armour

>

>

>

> I wonder if Dr Manzanero treats adrenals with HC?

>

>

>

> I guess you don't have anything to lose with trying the

supplements, except

> having to wean your sweet baby. ;-( I feel for you.

>

>

>

> I did the saliva tests prior to seeing Dr R. My results were not

as low as

> yours. I know that being on HC has made such a difference for

me. Just the

> last small dosage increase made a big difference.

>

>

>

> Kim in No Texas

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ]

On Behalf Of Grace M

> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 PM

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

feeling hypo on

> Armour

>

>

>

> As I understand it.Just the metagenics for adrenals. The iodoral

is for

> iodine/thyroid.

>

[Guest guest]

Do I remember that you are seeing Debbi Winder?

Dr. Dommisse has talked about different Free T3 ranges for different ages. It seems that most labs use the one that is suitable for 75 year olds. I cannot quote you any sources on that, but you might want to do some Googling. . . . .

For this doc, I hope you know to wait until after your blood draw to take your Armour.

>> Yes. I agree it is wacky. She even talked about a patient she wanted to> increase but her labs wouldn't let her. Then after being on Iodoral for a> bit her labs showed hypo and she increased her armour.> > > > It would not even be a higher than normal dose. I am only at 90mg right> now! I didn't push it because I don't know how the iodine will affect> things. I would get another opinion, but I don't know how it would work to> see her for the iodine and someone else for my armour, etc. Though I am> tempted!

[Guest guest]

Yes, B5 is one of the water soluble B vitamins that you can't take

too much of (you just excrete the excess).

Personally, I think you have to do whatever it takes to get to an

optimal thyroid dosage. I have never felt beholding to follow one

particular doctor if I disagreed with them and I still use several

doctors based upon the areas in which they've been most helpful. If

doctor A doesn't want to increase Armour, then maybe Dr. Launius

might be a good choice. If you think that Dr. A, can still help,

when you go back to her be honest with her that you went for a

second opinion and the other doctor felt you needed more Armour.

And, ideally, by that time, you'll have clinical proof that you

needed more Armour!

My experience has been that once you get to an optimal dose, many

doctors are not nearly as hesitant to keep your there (if you're

doing well) - they're just mostly afraid to take any risk to get you

there. I think the reasons are many fold, including fear of the

medical board, fear to go outside the box in terms of how they were

trained and unfortunately lack of confidence or fear in treating

patients based on symptoms rather than purely on labs.

Be well,

B.

> >

> > Thanks, Kim. Does anyone else have suggestions for doctors who

> treat

> > adrenals for me?

> >

> >

> >

> > I am feeling a bit frustrated and discouraged. Especially when I

> express

> > how I want to get my thyroid up and the doc says she felt best

> with her FT3

> > at 4.7, but can't do that for patients.

> >

> > I hope the iodine does make a positive difference. I am already

> at the

> > point that I need to cut off my hair I was growing out because

it

> has gotten

> > so thin and scraggly that it looks HORRIBLE! Even my husband has

> commented

> > on how much hair I am losing!

> >

> >

> >

> > I do wonder how much the supplements will help. She said her

> adrenals were

> > flatline so I guess the fact that mine was 12 in the morning

makes

> her think

> > it's not so bad.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Kim

in

> No Texas

> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:30 PM

> > To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

> feeling hypo on

> > Armour

> >

> >

> >

> > I wonder if Dr Manzanero treats adrenals with HC?

> >

> >

> >

> > I guess you don't have anything to lose with trying the

> supplements, except

> > having to wean your sweet baby. ;-( I feel for you.

> >

> >

> >

> > I did the saliva tests prior to seeing Dr R. My results were not

> as low as

> > yours. I know that being on HC has made such a difference for

> me. Just the

> > last small dosage increase made a big difference.

> >

> >

> >

> > Kim in No Texas

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

Grace M

> > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 PM

> > To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

> <mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: RE: Re: Adrenal Results and

> feeling hypo on

> > Armour

> >

> >

> >

> > As I understand it.Just the metagenics for adrenals. The iodoral

> is for

> > iodine/thyroid.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, I’m not seeing Debbi Winder.

My TSH labs from my OBs office shows different TSH ranges per

trimester of pregnancy. Interesting that a TSH of 4 something is okay in some

trimesters but not others. Go figure.

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:09 PM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on

Armour

Do I remember that

you are seeing Debbi Winder?

Dr. Dommisse

has talked about different Free T3 ranges for different ages. It seems that

most labs use the one that is suitable for 75 year olds. I cannot quote you any

sources on that, but you might want to do some Googling. . . . .

For this doc, I hope

you know to wait until after your blood draw to take your Armour.

---

In Texas_Thyroid_Groups , " Grace M "

wrote:

>

> Yes. I agree it is wacky. She even talked about a patient she wanted to

> increase but her labs wouldn't let her. Then after being on Iodoral for a

> bit her labs showed hypo and she increased her armour.

>

>

>

> It would not even be a higher than normal dose. I am only at 90mg right

> now! I didn't push it because I don't know how the iodine will affect

> things. I would get another opinion, but I don't know how it would work to

> see her for the iodine and someone else for my armour, etc. Though I am

> tempted!

_._,___

[Guest guest]

,

I have fibrocystic breasts. I had a 3cm lump removed earlier this year that was causing a great deal of pain. It runs in my family... my mom and her sisters have had a lot of problems with them. I believe my mom is undiagnosed hypothyroid, more than likely Hashimotos, as my symptoms mirror hers exactly, but she doesn't think anything is wrong with her even though she had surgery 2 years ago for hyperparathyroidism. Do you have any links about fibrocystic breasts and hypothyroidism? I tried Googling but didn't get very far.

Thanks,

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:17:28 +0000> Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on Armour> > The typical B complex (50s or 100s) should be perfectly safe. I take > alot of B5 (500 mg 3-4x per day). Biotin is also in the safe > category and I take 10mg per day, which is definitely on the higher > end - I started with 1mg. And, my hair is thicker than it has been > in my whole life! I always take a spreadsheet listing all my > supplements, dosages, etc. to the doctors - I have too much to fit > on their standard forms. > > I still take the Iodine because it helps with breast pain (I have > fibrocystic breasts, which is actually another hypo symptom). Here's > a good article on the topic of Iodine/Iodoral and breast symptoms. > There's also a school of thought (including several MDs) that > propose that breast cancer can be due to low iodine (as well as low > vitamin D). > > With my TSH suppressed, Iodine doesn't seem to aggravate my thyroid > anymore. Fortunately, I gave up on the theory that all my thyroid > problems could be corrected nutritionally fairly early on, which in > the end was the right thing for me to do given my most recent > sonogram shows that I have very little thyroid gland left anyways > (left nodule isn't even visible). > > . > > > >> > I have some B-complex, but I was concerned about the ones not water> > soluable. I would love to increase the B5 and biotin since my > hair is such> > a mess right now!> > > > > > > > I am emailing with Launius to see if Dr. L will treat me > while I am> > taking Iodoral. She said he won't unless there is a documented > test showing> > deficiency. Since I had that she said she'd ask him. She didn't > think> > they've treated people who've had the test. She said he does > treat sex> > hormones, but not adrenals and would refer out for the ACTH stim > test if he> > thought it was needed.> > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments. I will get well! I am determined to get > to the> > best doses of what I need.> > > > > > > > BTW, you said you still take Iodoral? Is that just as a > supplement to keep> > your levels up?> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for the articles. I just started working at a hospital here in Houston, so I have access to PubMed now. I will look for a few other articles next week. They did biopsy my cyst. It was a fibroadenoma, and thus benign. I am just hoping it doesn't grow back, which is fairly common from what I understand. I had an ultrasound because I am 25, and therefore "too young" for a mammogram by their standards, which is fine by me.

I was looking into MSH, and I read that in red-headed people and people who do not tan well there are variations in their hormone receptors causing them not to respond to MSH in the blood. I am very fair-skinned and I rarely tan. I used to tan when I was a child, but not in my teen or adult years. I also had an abnormal TRH Test. Before treatment, my TSH always hovered around 2.9, which by lab standards is considered high normal. The more and more research and information I read, the more that I realize that once I hit puberty, something happened in my body to start all these problems. I don't really know what though.... Has Dr. Shoemaker done any research regarding PCOS? I know a lot of PCOS women try to follow his low amylose diet to lose weight. It is my opinion that a PCOS diagnosis just addresses symptoms or a syndrome rather than the root problems.... why else would they call it Polycystic Ovarian SYNDROME? It never made sense to me that I had PCOS and nothing else. Sigh. I digress. Just thinking out loud.

Thank you,

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:36:58 +0000> Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on Armour> > Hi ,> > I sympathize with you on that breast pain - it had been so severe > for me in the past. And, I can't wear underwire bras at all. I do > think it's a combination of things as mine tends to be worse during > the PMS timeframe. Along with the Iodine, I imagine vitamin E (the > natural one) has also very helpful (18 articles in pubmed about > this) And, putting (bioidentical) progesterone cream directly on the > breasts helps me, but unfortunately, any research has been done > using synthetic hormones, which for obvious reasons didn't seem to > impact the cysts. > > There are only a few articles in pubmed on this topic of fibrocystic > breasts and hypothyroidism, but a couple of the articles do mention > that it goes along with an elevated TSH (as well as sub-clinical > hypothyroidism) and elevated prolactin (if that hormone gets too > high, that's what causes milk production without having given > birth). Right now, I'm guessing my prolaction is high because I've > been taking Rozerem (for the side effect of increasing some of my > hormones, including MSH). And, my breast pain has been worse > lately. I will get the biotoxin doctor to rerun my labs in November, > so I want to stay on the Rozerem to see if my MSH is finally in the > normal range. MSH is produced by the Hypothalamus, which is what > produces the TRH, which is what tells the Pituitary to produce TSH. > IMHO, folks with this low MSH can really have severe hypo symptoms > with a normal TSH. > > There is also a really interesting article from 1999 that they > recommend ultrasound for folks that have hypothyroid symptoms (but > normal labs - i.e., subclinical). > > And, this article (from a fibromyalgia newsletter) is very, very > interesting because it mentions the impacts on the HPA (Hypothalamic-> Pituitary access) and thyroid from toxins and that this does > contribute to chronic fatigue: > http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=13907> > This aligns with this Dr. Shoemaker's theory as he believes a > diagnosis of Fibromyalgia (and CFS) is bogus (although, it is a > valid diagnosis for insurance and disability purposes), but it terms > of treatment, it is usually just addressing symptoms rather than > root causes. Although, he is only measuring TSH, which I find > puzzling and is something I will ask him about. I also just got a > letter from him that they've taken my frozen blood sample and tested > the level of transforming growth factor beta-1 (TGF-beta1). I also > discuss those results with him in November. And, BINGO, there are > articles correlating abnormalities in this TGF beta 1 and folks with > Hashi's! > > Did they biopsy your cyst? I ask because, I personally have avoided > mammograms as I've read that virtually all the cysts are benign (and > my doc is okay with this because I have zero family history and I > breastfed for 6+ years, thus dramatically reduced my risk). > Instead, I do the thermography, which is good at initially > determining problem areas and if a mammogram is really needed. For > me the cysts could well be due to poor lymph drainage (that was the > number one suspected cause based on the thermograh), which means > toxins hang out in the neck area and above. In my mind, this could > well explain the hypothyroidism since a high amount of toxins > (including those from gluten) tend to spend a whole lot more time in > my body than they should. > > Be well,> B. > > > >> > > > ,> > > > I have fibrocystic breasts. I had a 3cm lump removed earlier this > year that was causing a great deal of pain. It runs in my family... > my mom and her sisters have had a lot of problems with them. I > believe my mom is undiagnosed hypothyroid, more than likely > Hashimotos, as my symptoms mirror hers exactly, but she doesn't > think anything is wrong with her even though she had surgery 2 years > ago for hyperparathyroidism. Do you have any links about > fibrocystic breasts and hypothyroidism? I tried Googling but didn't > get very far. > > > > Thanks,> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/> >> > > > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Anyone with internet access has access to PubMed. Or do you mean that you can get full text articles for free?

>> > Hi ,> Thank you for the articles. I just started working at a hospital here in Houston, so I have access to PubMed now. I will look for a few other articles next week. They did biopsy my cyst. It was a fibroadenoma, and thus benign. I am just hoping it doesn't grow back, which is fairly common from what I understand. I had an ultrasound because I am 25, and therefore "too young" for a mammogram by their standards, which is fine by me. > > I was looking into MSH, and I read that in red-headed people and people who do not tan well there are variations in their hormone receptors causing them not to respond to MSH in the blood. I am very fair-skinned and I rarely tan. I used to tan when I was a child, but not in my teen or adult years. I also had an abnormal TRH Test. Before treatment, my TSH always hovered around 2.9, which by lab standards is considered high normal. The more and more research and information I read, the more that I realize that once I hit puberty, something happened in my body to start all these problems. I don't really know what though.... Has Dr. Shoemaker done any research regarding PCOS? I know a lot of PCOS women try to follow his low amylose diet to lose weight. It is my opinion that a PCOS diagnosis just addresses symptoms or a syndrome rather than the root problems.... why else would they call it Polycystic Ovarian SYNDROME? It never made sense to me that I had PCOS and nothing else. Sigh. I digress. Just thinking out loud. > > Thank you,> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/>

[Guest guest]

I can get the full text articles for free now.

-

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups From: texasthyroid@...Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:20:33 +0000Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on Armour

Anyone with internet access has access to PubMed. Or do you mean that you can get full text articles for free?

>> > Hi ,> Thank you for the articles. I just started working at a hospital here in Houston, so I have access to PubMed now. I will look for a few other articles next week. They did biopsy my cyst. It was a fibroadenoma, and thus benign. I am just hoping it doesn't grow back, which is fairly common from what I understand. I had an ultrasound because I am 25, and therefore "too young" for a mammogram by their standards, which is fine by me. > > I was looking into MSH, and I read that in red-headed people and people who do not tan well there are variations in their hormone receptors causing them not to respond to MSH in the blood. I am very fair-skinned and I rarely tan. I used to tan when I was a child, but not in my teen or adult years. I also had an abnormal TRH Test. Before treatment, my TSH always hovered around 2.9, which by lab standards is considered high normal. The more and more research and information I read, the more that I realize that once I hit puberty, something happened in my body to start all these problems. I don't really know what though.... Has Dr. Shoemaker done any research regarding PCOS? I know a lot of PCOS women try to follow his low amylose diet to lose weight. It is my opinion that a PCOS diagnosis just addresses symptoms or a syndrome rather than the root problems.... why else would they call it Polycystic Ovarian SYNDROME? It never made sense to me that I had PCOS and nothing else. Sigh. I digress. Just thinking out loud. > > Thank you,> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. See Now

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Shoemaker has found a correlation between women with PCOS and

exposure to biotoxins. The low amylose diet is helpful because it

controls inflammation (and insulin levels). I can't find the exact

reference right off (the index to " Mold Warriors " is not that great,

but in thumbing through I'm realizing that I really need to read it

cover to cover again because I read it originally before the

biotoxin treatment, thus didn't have a whole lotta brain function

then. One thing that just caught my eye is that he mentions that a

prior illness such as a virus " primes " your immune system such that

if you have certain genotypes, your HLA (autoimmune) reaction is

triggered, thus you'll then react to anything to which you have a

genetic predisposition. This is why many Lyme patients end up with a

myriad of autoimmune conditions and sensitivity to mold if they have

that gene, which happens to be the same gene as celiac. And, it

doesn't have to be Lyme, it can be mono, anthrax, beestings - any

illness that causes increased cytokines, which leads to

inflammation. And, it's inflammation that's believed to be one of

the roots of PCOS. Which is why the low amylose diet helps - it's

anti-inflammatory.

As far as the MSH, it could be that some of us start lower than

normal (I'm also very fair - 1/2 Irish, blue eyes) and likely had

low normal MSH before I got started (mine was off the scale low

everytime it's been measured). Thus, for folks like us, it likely

doesn't take as much for us to crater and for all our systems to be

impacted.

I think you're absolutely right - diseases don't happen in

isolation - our body is a system with many intricate

interdependencies. It's just highly unfortunate that doctors

specialize in specific organs (for the most part), thus it is very

few that think of the body as a whole system and try to understand

root causes - that's why IMHO, GPs are often the best. Instead, our

current medical system focuses almost entirely on treating symptoms

(that's primarily what the FM/CFS specialists do).

Be well,

B.

>

>

> Hi ,

> Thank you for the articles. I just started working at a hospital

here in Houston, so I have access to PubMed now. I will look for a

few other articles next week. They did biopsy my cyst. It was a

fibroadenoma, and thus benign. I am just hoping it doesn't grow

back, which is fairly common from what I understand. I had an

ultrasound because I am 25, and therefore " too young " for a

mammogram by their standards, which is fine by me.

>

> I was looking into MSH, and I read that in red-headed people and

people who do not tan well there are variations in their hormone

receptors causing them not to respond to MSH in the blood. I am

very fair-skinned and I rarely tan. I used to tan when I was a

child, but not in my teen or adult years. I also had an abnormal

TRH Test. Before treatment, my TSH always hovered around 2.9, which

by lab standards is considered high normal. The more and more

research and information I read, the more that I realize that once I

hit puberty, something happened in my body to start all these

problems. I don't really know what though.... Has Dr. Shoemaker

done any research regarding PCOS? I know a lot of PCOS women try to

follow his low amylose diet to lose weight. It is my opinion that a

PCOS diagnosis just addresses symptoms or a syndrome rather than the

root problems.... why else would they call it Polycystic Ovarian

SYNDROME? It never made sense to me that I had PCOS and nothing

else. Sigh. I digress. Just thinking out loud.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . I am trying to remember an illness or something back then, but I can't remember what I had for dinner last night I had chicken pox in 4th grade but I don't know if that counts? Once I hit my teen years I started having what I now know to be Hashi symptoms, which has progressed into Hashi and adrenal problems, and I'm starting to lean towards food allergies/gluten intolerance/celiac/etc but have to wait to get those tested. This interests me as I can't ever take "that's just the way it is" for an answer... I always have to try to find a reason why. I may have to settle on this one though!

Again, thanks for the info!

-

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:15:31 +0000> Subject: Re: Adrenal Results and feeling hypo on Armour> > Hi ,> > Shoemaker has found a correlation between women with PCOS and > exposure to biotoxins. The low amylose diet is helpful because it > controls inflammation (and insulin levels). I can't find the exact > reference right off (the index to "Mold Warriors" is not that great, > but in thumbing through I'm realizing that I really need to read it > cover to cover again because I read it originally before the > biotoxin treatment, thus didn't have a whole lotta brain function > then. One thing that just caught my eye is that he mentions that a > prior illness such as a virus "primes" your immune system such that > if you have certain genotypes, your HLA (autoimmune) reaction is > triggered, thus you'll then react to anything to which you have a > genetic predisposition. This is why many Lyme patients end up with a > myriad of autoimmune conditions and sensitivity to mold if they have > that gene, which happens to be the same gene as celiac. And, it > doesn't have to be Lyme, it can be mono, anthrax, beestings - any > illness that causes increased cytokines, which leads to > inflammation. And, it's inflammation that's believed to be one of > the roots of PCOS. Which is why the low amylose diet helps - it's > anti-inflammatory. > > As far as the MSH, it could be that some of us start lower than > normal (I'm also very fair - 1/2 Irish, blue eyes) and likely had > low normal MSH before I got started (mine was off the scale low > everytime it's been measured). Thus, for folks like us, it likely > doesn't take as much for us to crater and for all our systems to be > impacted.> > I think you're absolutely right - diseases don't happen in > isolation - our body is a system with many intricate > interdependencies. It's just highly unfortunate that doctors > specialize in specific organs (for the most part), thus it is very > few that think of the body as a whole system and try to understand > root causes - that's why IMHO, GPs are often the best. Instead, our > current medical system focuses almost entirely on treating symptoms > (that's primarily what the FM/CFS specialists do). > > Be well,> B. > > > > > >> > > > Hi ,> > Thank you for the articles. I just started working at a hospital > here in Houston, so I have access to PubMed now. I will look for a > few other articles next week. They did biopsy my cyst. It was a > fibroadenoma, and thus benign. I am just hoping it doesn't grow > back, which is fairly common from what I understand. I had an > ultrasound because I am 25, and therefore "too young" for a > mammogram by their standards, which is fine by me. > > > > I was looking into MSH, and I read that in red-headed people and > people who do not tan well there are variations in their hormone > receptors causing them not to respond to MSH in the blood. I am > very fair-skinned and I rarely tan. I used to tan when I was a > child, but not in my teen or adult years. I also had an abnormal > TRH Test. Before treatment, my TSH always hovered around 2.9, which > by lab standards is considered high normal. The more and more > research and information I read, the more that I realize that once I > hit puberty, something happened in my body to start all these > problems. I don't really know what though.... Has Dr. Shoemaker > done any research regarding PCOS? I know a lot of PCOS women try to > follow his low amylose diet to lose weight. It is my opinion that a > PCOS diagnosis just addresses symptoms or a syndrome rather than the > root problems.... why else would they call it Polycystic Ovarian > SYNDROME? It never made sense to me that I had PCOS and nothing > else. Sigh. I digress. Just thinking out loud. > > > > Thank you,> > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/> >> > > > ------------------------------------> >