Re: Comparison

[Guest guest]

>Hello members!

>I am putting together a presentation as a part of my >graduate school

>project comparing 5 treatment approaches based on >ABA: Lovaas, VB,

>Fluency, Pivotal Responce, and Natural Language >Paradigm. I found

>tons of research supporting each of those approaches >but I am

>looking for the information on how parent-friendly >each approach is

>and which one is most widely used? I have read about >the internet

>survey that found the prevalence in VB. Does anyone >know more info

>about that survey?

>Thank you,

> Matchneva

Hi! Thank you for asking. As a parent (keep in mind having my own unique

experiences with the journey with my own son), I just really wanted to comment

on this because it has been sitting funny with me all day.

See, to me, no one can/should " compare " these, because it is ALL ABA. There's no

one vs. the other (BTW, PBS is one you should probably mention as well if you're

going this route).

And I totally don't want to come off this way, or make you feel bad, it's really

REALLY hard to articulate it the right way in written words, but honestly these

kind of comparisons (that I've TOTALLY done at one time or another!), is the

perfect example of misunderstanding that is depriving, killing quality and kinds

of services for our kids and separating us (consumers of ABA).

In my opinion, and from what I have learned, all of those " treatment procedures "

you mention should ALL be incorporated in an effective, appropriate way of life

when trying to reduce/replace the excess' and deficits when you're child has

this diagnosis.

It is not about procedures. It is about the principles of ABA and how to apply

them individually and effectively based on current research findings and the

child's own unique self.

Maybe if you would like to research it a bit some links that come to my mind

maybe helpful are:

www.elija.org www.asatonline.org

www.abainternational.org

www.autismteachingtools.com (this mom in my opinion has done a really great job

on trying to show other families how to tweak everything out there to

individualize intervention/way of life for her two boys)

good luck,

take care,

Jennica

[Guest guest]

Hello Jennica,

Thank you for your response. I would like to clarify the reason

behind my post. I was asked to " compare " the " treatment approaches "

by my professor as a part of my graduate course. Believe it or not

but there are people who are convinced that the approaches need to

be compared and long-itudinal study needs to be done to demonstrate

it's effectiveness. I go to a graduate school with that point of

view.

I received my training in ABA from Dr. Risley and Dr. Carbone and do

understand the science. I completely agree with you that all the

approaches I have listed are based on the science of ABA. This is

exactly what I want other people in my school to understand by

making my presentation. I leave in a place where parents and

professionals are " divided into camps " and I would like to change

that. Let's hope I succeed and make a difference by making my

presentation.

Thank you,

Matchneva

[Guest guest]

Pia,

I was speaking personally, Pia....your post reminded me of my crazy days....when

my endocrine system was so depressed that I was constantly enraged. I tolerated

NOTHING because I had no coping ability because my adrenals produced so little

hormone for me to cope with things I found stressful...which was pretty much

everything. I have seen great improvement in my mood. Although there are parts

of my personality that have also changed...which I'm not happy about...but I

hope the real me will re-emerge at some point. At times I feel much frustration

with things said in this group too just as I'm sure people have been frustrated

with me.....but I realize that everyone is sick and everyone is dealing and

coping in their own way. So who am I to say....that someone shouldn't share a

hard feeling...if it makes them feel better....it's theirs...not mine to

determine for them. That's all....I was WAY INTOLERANT when I was sicker my

nerves were shot....I'm glad to say that has changed tremenduously...I took

responsibility for my health and mood then and I continue to do so now. Those

are just my feelings and my personal experience....I'm not barking at you Pia or

anyone.....Just saying what I know to be true.....Best Wishes in Healing to

Everyone....Gail

(Curlygirl)

> >

> > Just my 2 cents worth...which may even be worth less...LOL....I think people

who share thoughts and feelings are way healthier than those who stuff them.

Those who are affected by a bum endocrine system due to bad health or candida

can have mood disorders...people who have Candida can have mood disorders...I

believe intolerance can be part of our illness depending on how sick we are.

I've been on the diet for 4 months now....my personality has changed soooooo

much. I could have been a stand up comic before I started the diet...now I'm so

calm and my wit has gone missing....I'm hoping it's just the body waxing and

waning until it is healed. We need to take responsibility for our illness and

inability to cope with things that may not have even phased us if we were

well....in actuality it's not the other person who upsets us...it's our

inability to cope that upsets us. Here's to Health !!! May we all be kind,

caring, sensitive to needs of others and tolerant of each others right to be.

Gail.....(curlygirl)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

I totally misunderstood You.

Yeah, the psycho in me nods in agreement. It can be quite a journey.

At first I had this complete intolerance of noises.

Then in addition also any bad news of any kind. It is because I cannot get it

out of my mind again.

I was really thinking if I should post this at all, since I am fighting this all

the time anyway. One more or less, what's the difference?

But then I thought I'm maybe not the only one suffering.

Hey Gail and everybody:

Happy Thanksgiving!

We're having Cornish Game Hens tonight.

Love,

Pia

>

> Pia,

>

> I was speaking personally, Pia....your post reminded me of my crazy

days....when my endocrine system was so depressed that I was constantly enraged.

I tolerated NOTHING because I had no coping ability because my adrenals produced

so little hormone for me to cope with things I found stressful...which was

pretty much everything. I have seen great improvement in my mood. Although

there are parts of my personality that have also changed...which I'm not happy

about...but I hope the real me will re-emerge at some point. At times I feel

much frustration with things said in this group too just as I'm sure people have

been frustrated with me.....but I realize that everyone is sick and everyone is

dealing and coping in their own way. So who am I to say....that someone

shouldn't share a hard feeling...if it makes them feel better....it's

theirs...not mine to determine for them. That's all....I was WAY INTOLERANT

when I was sicker my nerves were shot....I'm glad to say that has changed

tremenduously...I took responsibility for my health and mood then and I continue

to do so now. Those are just my feelings and my personal experience....I'm not

barking at you Pia or anyone.....Just saying what I know to be true.....Best

Wishes in Healing to Everyone....Gail

> (Curlygirl)

>

[Guest guest]

Enjoy your Hens Pia!!;-).........just know you're not alone....there are others

who are emotionally affected by the illness ravishing our body...although we are

healing because of the diet....so there is hope that one day we will all be over

the rainbow....but until then we all suffer together....My Best to you

Always.......Gail (curlygirl)

> >

> > Pia,

> >

> > I was speaking personally, Pia....your post reminded me of my crazy

days....when my endocrine system was so depressed that I was constantly enraged.

I tolerated NOTHING because I had no coping ability because my adrenals produced

so little hormone for me to cope with things I found stressful...which was

pretty much everything. I have seen great improvement in my mood. Although

there are parts of my personality that have also changed...which I'm not happy

about...but I hope the real me will re-emerge at some point. At times I feel

much frustration with things said in this group too just as I'm sure people have

been frustrated with me.....but I realize that everyone is sick and everyone is

dealing and coping in their own way. So who am I to say....that someone

shouldn't share a hard feeling...if it makes them feel better....it's

theirs...not mine to determine for them. That's all....I was WAY INTOLERANT

when I was sicker my nerves were shot....I'm glad to say that has changed

tremenduously...I took responsibility for my health and mood then and I continue

to do so now. Those are just my feelings and my personal experience....I'm not

barking at you Pia or anyone.....Just saying what I know to be true.....Best

Wishes in Healing to Everyone....Gail

> > (Curlygirl)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

I admit that I am not good at dealing with certain things at this point.

But I still believe that I had a point.

Unfortunately that was completely dismissed and the focus turned on me instead

of what I said initially.

This place is very good, informative and usually all about the Diet and the

supplements plus other ways of healing.

The posting I had questions about turned out to be about a person the poster

doesn't even have contact with or even the email adress.

That was my impression in the first place, and I felt somebody dumps his thigs

on others, but wasn't thinking about who those others are.

A lot of people are sick here and have difficulty to deal with their own stuff.

I just think those kind of stories belong to social networks and not to a

candida support group.

Anyways, since everybody else seems to be okay with this, then may the posters

who want to discuss their personal issues please put an OT(off topic) in the

subject?

Great, Thanks,

Pia

>

> Enjoy your Hens Pia!!;-).........just know you're not alone....there are

others who are emotionally affected by the illness ravishing our body...although

we are healing because of the diet....so there is hope that one day we will all

be over the rainbow....but until then we all suffer together....My Best to you

Always.......Gail (curlygirl)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pia,

A few years ago I had heard a quote from anne on that went something

like " You cannot get to the light by endless analysis of the dark. You get to

the light by choosing the light. " Wow.

I used to be one of those people who were stuck in the negative. (And I still

struggle with it at times.) I rationalized this by believing that you need to

understand the darkness to prevail. I was wrong.

I did stop reading this thread after the first few responses, and it was hard,

until this post for some reason.

I truly believe that our minds effect our health and that we need to stay

positive in order to heal. So I totally agree with you. Let's stay positive

and focused on what we want. Great health and happiness!

Kim

> >

> > Enjoy your Hens Pia!!;-).........just know you're not alone....there are

others who are emotionally affected by the illness ravishing our body...although

we are healing because of the diet....so there is hope that one day we will all

be over the rainbow....but until then we all suffer together....My Best to you

Always.......Gail (curlygirl)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Gail,

> I admit that I am not good at dealing with certain things at this point.

> But I still believe that I had a point.

> Unfortunately that was completely dismissed and the focus turned on me instead

of what I said initially.

> This place is very good, informative and usually all about the Diet and the

supplements plus other ways of healing.

> The posting I had questions about turned out to be about a person the poster

doesn't even have contact with or even the email adress.

> That was my impression in the first place, and I felt somebody dumps his thigs

on others, but wasn't thinking about who those others are.

> A lot of people are sick here and have difficulty to deal with their own

stuff.

> I just think those kind of stories belong to social networks and not to a

candida support group.

> Anyways, since everybody else seems to be okay with this, then may the posters

who want to discuss their personal issues please put an OT(off topic) in the

subject?

> Great, Thanks,

+++Hi Pia,

This group isn't just about diet, supplements and healing.

This is a support group where people who are down and needing support, have sad

stories to get off their chest, or need help and encouragement should get here.

They should not have to go to any other group, like a social network.

Personal, emotional and mental issues that affect our health are not off topic,

any more than posting about our family, friends, or pets' health since they are

all very important for our health.

Some stories are very heart-wrenching and they can get us down. However we help

ourselves by helping others too, which makes us feel good when we can support

and help others. Such help also can make an important difference in someone

else's life.

All the best, Bee

[Guest guest]

Hi Bee,

thanks for clarifying this.

Pia

> Personal, emotional and mental issues that affect our health are not off

topic, any more than posting about our family, friends, or pets' health since

they are all very important for our health.

>

>

> All the best, Bee

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Kim,

thank You for this comment.

Looks like I have to choose the light by reading very selective here.

No pity parties.

By refusing to join the choir about the cancer story of a ex-coworker of

somebody who needed to share this even though they had no contact with the

person (guilt?).

I found out that it is actually okay to post anything that bugs us.

In the name of health.

The point is, we don't have to read it, right?

It's my choice, I choose the light.

Love,

Pia

>

> Hi Pia,

>

> A few years ago I had heard a quote from anne on that went

something like " You cannot get to the light by endless analysis of the dark.

You get to the light by choosing the light. " Wow.

>

> I used to be one of those people who were stuck in the negative. (And I still

struggle with it at times.) I rationalized this by believing that you need to

understand the darkness to prevail. I was wrong.

>

> I did stop reading this thread after the first few responses, and it was hard,

until this post for some reason.

>

> I truly believe that our minds effect our health and that we need to stay

positive in order to heal. So I totally agree with you. Let's stay positive

and focused on what we want. Great health and happiness!

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Pia.

Please try not to make people feel guilty for posting about their feelings.

Whether or not YOU feel that it was appropriate or not is not the point.

We are all travelling on the same journey but sometimes things happen in our

lives that can have very profound effects on us. I too have just lost a dear

friend to Cancer (or more likely to Chemo) and it has affected me too, so I can

understand where this person is coming from. It is something that we all fear,

whether we vent it or not. Whilst it was her friend who was dying, it was her

feelings that needed the support. She was effectively saying 'my friend is

dying, and this frightens me'. Sometimes we just need to reach out....

This support group is about just that - support. You are just as welcome to

that support as anyone else, whatever support is needed at the time. You have

been, during the course of this thread, venting about your own fears and

negativity and that has been upsetting for some of us to read too, but many of

us have read your posts and patiently understood and supported you too in your

very real feelings.

I realise that your negativity makes it difficult for you to cope with other

people's sadness or difficulties so, as you say, perhaps it is better that you

are selective in the posts that you read. Whilst we all wish that we were able

to post nothing but success stories, the healing process doesn't work like that

unfortunately. The success stories we do get though are very encouraging.

I am encouraged by the fact that after 8 months I have just experienced my first

niacin flush!

I hope you continue to heal and will eventually be able to get through this

period in your life and be able to see the World from a different perspective.

Many regards,

Ali.

> >

> > Hi Pia,

> >

> > A few years ago I had heard a quote from anne on that went

something like " You cannot get to the light by endless analysis of the dark.

You get to the light by choosing the light. " Wow.

> >

> > I used to be one of those people who were stuck in the negative. (And I

still struggle with it at times.) I rationalized this by believing that you

need to understand the darkness to prevail. I was wrong.

> >

> > I did stop reading this thread after the first few responses, and it was

hard, until this post for some reason.

> >

> > I truly believe that our minds effect our health and that we need to stay

positive in order to heal. So I totally agree with you. Let's stay positive

and focused on what we want. Great health and happiness!

> >

> > Kim

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kim,

That was a great quote...I love it !!!.......I have to say from experience

though that some of us are in darkness against our will and are not able to

choose light because of our health's affect on our emotions, our light has been

extinguished.

When I was sicker, I was extremely negative and at times rude to people and very

unaware of my behvior until a very good friend of mine brought it to my

attention....Since she was a trusted friend, I use her as a barometer for my

mood and behavior because I didn't feel that others should have to suffer

because I was suffering.

My good friend has since moved to another state and called me the other day. She

told me how much I have improved and that she could hear the difference in the

strength of my voice and the content of our conversation....(more positive, I

think) Finally after 20 years of being sick, my snuffed out light is finally

starting to flicker....and that is thanks to Bee....I'm pretty sure that it will

be shinning brighter and brighter in time to come. There is a saying: " go in

through the narrow road that cramped and hard to follow for it leads to life and

few are the ones finding it...broad and spacious is the road leading to death

and it is filled with many. "

For the few who have found Bee's narrow road to health...I believe will

eventually reach their destination....Life, Light, healing and a great sense of

strength.

Without fear and illness, I could never have accomplished all I have. "

quote: Edvard Munch

Just throwing more change into the forum....My best wishes to all,

Gail (Curlygirl)

> > >

> > > Enjoy your Hens Pia!!;-).........just know you're not alone....there are

others who are emotionally affected by the illness ravishing our body...although

we are healing because of the diet....so there is hope that one day we will all

be over the rainbow....but until then we all suffer together....My Best to you

Always.......Gail (curlygirl)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ali,

I don't understand why You come out now to give Your opinion.

A day late, a dollar short as we say here.

Actually Bee has already made clear that it is okay for everybody to tell all

kinds of stuff. I didn't understand that and actually thought the is a group

about the Diet and Supplement and related questions.

I already told her I appreciated the clarification.

So now You feel empowered to lash out at me?

Well, I also already told another poster that I will definitely read more

selective and probably not much at all.

I am actually not as negative as You describe me and I too, like many others I

suppose, have lost 3 friends in the last 4 years to cancer and chemo.

When I read Your opinion I was on my way to unsubscribe (no hard feelings).

So I will not read the answer If You give one.

All the best,

Pia

In , " Alison " <alibamford@...> wrote:

>

> Pia.

>

> Please try not to make people feel guilty for posting about their feelings.

>

> Whether or not YOU feel that it was appropriate or not is not the point.

>

> We are all travelling on the same journey but sometimes things happen in our

lives that can have very profound effects on us. I too have just lost a dear

friend to Cancer (or more likely to Chemo) and it has affected me too, so I can

understand where this person is coming from. It is something that we all fear,

whether we vent it or not. Whilst it was her friend who was dying, it was her

feelings that needed the support. She was effectively saying 'my friend is

dying, and this frightens me'. Sometimes we just need to reach out....

>

> This support group is about just that - support. You are just as welcome to

that support as anyone else, whatever support is needed at the time. You have

been, during the course of this thread, venting about your own fears and

negativity and that has been upsetting for some of us to read too, but many of

us have read your posts and patiently understood and supported you too in your

very real feelings.

>

> I realise that your negativity makes it difficult for you to cope with other

people's sadness or difficulties so, as you say, perhaps it is better that you

are selective in the posts that you read. Whilst we all wish that we were able

to post nothing but success stories, the healing process doesn't work like that

unfortunately. The success stories we do get though are very encouraging.

>

> I am encouraged by the fact that after 8 months I have just experienced my

first niacin flush!

>

> I hope you continue to heal and will eventually be able to get through this

period in your life and be able to see the World from a different perspective.

>

> Many regards,

>

> Ali.

>