Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 >Is there a guideline for the amount of T50 to add to lotions, salves, and >other oil based items to delay rancidity? 0.5% to 1.5% The specification for Covi-ox T-50 is in the CosmeticInfo files area. >Also, I have been using Germ. II >in my emulsions, however sometimes it is frustrating to use due to having >to wait below 120 degrees to add it, sometimes my mixtures are getting >thick by then and I have to hurry to pour. Wow! That's thick. >What would be as effective, or >even better, that is now temp. dependant? Phenonip Uniphen P-23 LiquaPar Optima can be added at 60C (140F). The only way to see if a preservative system is effective is with a preservative efficacy test or challenge test. Quoting from an ISP/Sutton labs document " Preservative efficacy testing is an essential part of substantiating the safety of a product. Most large personal care manufacturers have a microbiology staff that performs preservative testing. Smaller companies may use the services of an outside micro lab for testing. The goal of efficacy testing is to determine, not only which preservative system to use against the strains of microorganisms to which the product may be exposed, but also that concentration of preservative that will preserve the product during manufacturing and under use conditions. The microbiologist's most important procedure for testing if a sample is contaminated is the Aerobic Plate Count or APC. The APC is used to determine the number of viable organisms present in a sample. This is carried out on agar plates that contain materials that support microbial growth. Each colony is assumed to represent growth from a single organism. Preservative testing is often lengthy and time consuming. Therefore, there are a number of fairly rapid screening methods that are used by microbiologists. The most common of these is called the Minimum Inhibitory Concentration or MIC test. This test determines the lowest concentration of the preservative system that will retard microbial growth. It uses inoculations of standard organisms that are representative of both Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, yeast and mold. In light of the previous discussion of all of the factors that may influence the activity of a preservative, it is essential to test the preservative system in the actual finished formulation. This is done by means of an Adequacy of Preservation Challenge Test or Challenge Test. For this test, the preservative is generally incorporated into a product base and " challenged " or inoculated with a large number of standard organisms along with various " house " organisms. " House " organisms are organisms that have adapted to a particular product or environment and whose metabolic activity is varied from the norm of its particular strain. They are often unique to a manufacturing plant. Assays are performed over a predetermined period of time, typically 4 to 8 weeks, sometimes with a rechallenge at 3 or 4 weeks. " Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 I previously checked with Sutton and believe I was told that Germaben II could stand temps to about 70 C (as I recall ... don't have the notes right in front of me). That means that the temp can be somewhat higher than 120 F and still be within safe range. I thought Phenonip, on the other hand, can only stand a lower temp (about 40 C, I think). Do I need to recheck this information? Marie Gale Chandler's Soaps www.chandlerssoaps.com T50/Germaben question > Is there a guideline for the amount of T50 to add to lotions, salves, and > other oil based items to delay rancidity? Also, I have been using Germ. II > in my emulsions, however sometimes it is frustrating to use due to having > to wait below 120 degrees to add it, sometimes my mixtures are getting > thick by then and I have to hurry to pour. What would be as effective, or > even better, that is now temp. dependant? And it would be great to have an > easy and reasonably priced way to buy it, Germ. is so nice as it is > offered for sale in so many places. I live in Texas if that helps > supplier-wise. THanks! > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 According to the brochure from Nipa, Phenonip can be added to water at 60-70 C. There is no mention of a maximum temperature at which it ceases to be effective, and I *think* I've read that products containing it can be safely autoclaved. Perhaps you're thinking of Germall? Merin I never fail. I succeed at finding what doesn't work. -- Titus > I previously checked with Sutton and believe I was told that > Germaben II could stand temps to about 70 C (as I recall ... don't > have the notes right in front of me). That means that the temp can > be somewhat higher than 120 F and still be within safe range. I > thought Phenonip, on the other hand, can only stand a lower temp > (about 40 C, I think). > > Do I need to recheck this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 De, Unless you have accurate glassware for making serial dilutions and accurate balances for weighing your samples you should have someone else do this testing for you. You startup costs may be prohibitive for you to internalize this testing. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Products www.kylabs.com Re: T50/Germaben question On this topic- I have had my lotions challenge tested in a lab but have some other formulas that I would like to have tested also. My friend works for a major university in their research department and he tells me that if I can send him a copy of the previous paperwork that the other lab gave me that he can 1. either test them for me or 2. tell me how to do it so I could test them myself. With your experience, does this seem practical, reasonable, or is it cost prohibitive? Dee Re: T50/Germaben question > > > >Is there a guideline for the amount of T50 to add to lotions, salves, and > >other oil based items to delay rancidity? > > 0.5% to 1.5% > > The specification for Covi-ox T-50 is in the CosmeticInfo files area. > > >Also, I have been using Germ. II > >in my emulsions, however sometimes it is frustrating to use due to having > >to wait below 120 degrees to add it, sometimes my mixtures are getting > >thick by then and I have to hurry to pour. > > Wow! That's thick. > > >What would be as effective, or > >even better, that is now temp. dependant? > > Phenonip > Uniphen P-23 > LiquaPar Optima > > can be added at 60C (140F). > > The only way to see if a preservative system is effective is with a > preservative efficacy test or challenge test. > > Quoting from an ISP/Sutton labs document > > " Preservative efficacy testing is an essential part of substantiating > the safety of a product. Most large personal care manufacturers have a > microbiology staff that performs preservative testing. Smaller > companies may use the services of an outside micro lab for testing. The > goal of efficacy testing is to determine, not only which preservative > system to use against the strains of microorganisms to which the > product may be exposed, but also that concentration of preservative > that will preserve the product during manufacturing and under use > conditions. > > The microbiologist's most important procedure for testing if a sample > is contaminated is the Aerobic Plate Count or APC. The APC is used to > determine the number of viable organisms present in a sample. This is > carried out on agar plates that contain materials that support > microbial growth. Each colony is assumed to represent growth from a > single organism. > > Preservative testing is often lengthy and time consuming. Therefore, > there are a number of fairly rapid screening methods that are used by > microbiologists. The most common of these is called the Minimum > Inhibitory Concentration or MIC test. This test determines the lowest > concentration of the preservative system that will retard microbial > growth. It uses inoculations of standard organisms that are > representative of both Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, yeast > and mold. > > In light of the previous discussion of all of the factors that may > influence the activity of a preservative, it is essential to test the > preservative system in the actual finished formulation. This is done by > means of an Adequacy of Preservation Challenge Test or Challenge Test. > For this test, the preservative is generally incorporated into a > product base and " challenged " or inoculated with a large number of > standard organisms along with various " house " organisms. " House " > organisms are organisms that have adapted to a particular product or > environment and whose metabolic activity is varied from the norm of its > particular strain. They are often unique to a manufacturing plant. > Assays are performed over a predetermined period of time, typically 4 > to 8 weeks, sometimes with a rechallenge at 3 or 4 weeks. " > > Maurice > -------------------------------------------------------- > Maurice O. Hevey > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 On this topic- I have had my lotions challenge tested in a lab but have some other formulas that I would like to have tested also. My friend works for a major university in their research department and he tells me that if I can send him a copy of the previous paperwork that the other lab gave me that he can 1. either test them for me or 2. tell me how to do it so I could test them myself. With your experience, does this seem practical, reasonable, or is it cost prohibitive? Dee Re: T50/Germaben question > > > >Is there a guideline for the amount of T50 to add to lotions, salves, and > >other oil based items to delay rancidity? > > 0.5% to 1.5% > > The specification for Covi-ox T-50 is in the CosmeticInfo files area. > > >Also, I have been using Germ. II > >in my emulsions, however sometimes it is frustrating to use due to having > >to wait below 120 degrees to add it, sometimes my mixtures are getting > >thick by then and I have to hurry to pour. > > Wow! That's thick. > > >What would be as effective, or > >even better, that is now temp. dependant? > > Phenonip > Uniphen P-23 > LiquaPar Optima > > can be added at 60C (140F). > > The only way to see if a preservative system is effective is with a > preservative efficacy test or challenge test. > > Quoting from an ISP/Sutton labs document > > " Preservative efficacy testing is an essential part of substantiating > the safety of a product. Most large personal care manufacturers have a > microbiology staff that performs preservative testing. Smaller > companies may use the services of an outside micro lab for testing. The > goal of efficacy testing is to determine, not only which preservative > system to use against the strains of microorganisms to which the > product may be exposed, but also that concentration of preservative > that will preserve the product during manufacturing and under use > conditions. > > The microbiologist's most important procedure for testing if a sample > is contaminated is the Aerobic Plate Count or APC. The APC is used to > determine the number of viable organisms present in a sample. This is > carried out on agar plates that contain materials that support > microbial growth. Each colony is assumed to represent growth from a > single organism. > > Preservative testing is often lengthy and time consuming. Therefore, > there are a number of fairly rapid screening methods that are used by > microbiologists. The most common of these is called the Minimum > Inhibitory Concentration or MIC test. This test determines the lowest > concentration of the preservative system that will retard microbial > growth. It uses inoculations of standard organisms that are > representative of both Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, yeast > and mold. > > In light of the previous discussion of all of the factors that may > influence the activity of a preservative, it is essential to test the > preservative system in the actual finished formulation. This is done by > means of an Adequacy of Preservation Challenge Test or Challenge Test. > For this test, the preservative is generally incorporated into a > product base and " challenged " or inoculated with a large number of > standard organisms along with various " house " organisms. " House " > organisms are organisms that have adapted to a particular product or > environment and whose metabolic activity is varied from the norm of its > particular strain. They are often unique to a manufacturing plant. > Assays are performed over a predetermined period of time, typically 4 > to 8 weeks, sometimes with a rechallenge at 3 or 4 weeks. " > > Maurice > -------------------------------------------------------- > Maurice O. Hevey > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Could you please expand-By glassware you are saying beakers, plates?? How accurate do the scales have to be? When you consider that it costs me $500. per challenge test, would I be getting this much $$ or more into this process? My husband works for an aerospace company I would think we could find an accurate enough scale to use and maybe even some old glassware available that maybe they could sell me or even let me use for a short period of time.. Could you briefly walk me through (and in layman's terms, if possible), through the process. Thanks De Re: T50/Germaben question > > > > > > > > >Is there a guideline for the amount of T50 to add to lotions, salves, > and > > >other oil based items to delay rancidity? > > > > 0.5% to 1.5% > > > > The specification for Covi-ox T-50 is in the CosmeticInfo files area. > > > > >Also, I have been using Germ. II > > >in my emulsions, however sometimes it is frustrating to use due to > having > > >to wait below 120 degrees to add it, sometimes my mixtures are > getting > > >thick by then and I have to hurry to pour. > > > > Wow! That's thick. > > > > >What would be as effective, or > > >even better, that is now temp. dependant? > > > > Phenonip > > Uniphen P-23 > > LiquaPar Optima > > > > can be added at 60C (140F). > > > > The only way to see if a preservative system is effective is with a > > preservative efficacy test or challenge test. > > > > Quoting from an ISP/Sutton labs document > > > > " Preservative efficacy testing is an essential part of substantiating > > the safety of a product. Most large personal care manufacturers have a > > microbiology staff that performs preservative testing. Smaller > > companies may use the services of an outside micro lab for testing. > The > > goal of efficacy testing is to determine, not only which preservative > > system to use against the strains of microorganisms to which the > > product may be exposed, but also that concentration of preservative > > that will preserve the product during manufacturing and under use > > conditions. > > > > The microbiologist's most important procedure for testing if a sample > > is contaminated is the Aerobic Plate Count or APC. The APC is used to > > determine the number of viable organisms present in a sample. This is > > carried out on agar plates that contain materials that support > > microbial growth. Each colony is assumed to represent growth from a > > single organism. > > > > Preservative testing is often lengthy and time consuming. Therefore, > > there are a number of fairly rapid screening methods that are used by > > microbiologists. The most common of these is called the Minimum > > Inhibitory Concentration or MIC test. This test determines the lowest > > concentration of the preservative system that will retard microbial > > growth. It uses inoculations of standard organisms that are > > representative of both Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, yeast > > and mold. > > > > In light of the previous discussion of all of the factors that may > > influence the activity of a preservative, it is essential to test the > > preservative system in the actual finished formulation. This is done > by > > means of an Adequacy of Preservation Challenge Test or Challenge Test. > > For this test, the preservative is generally incorporated into a > > product base and " challenged " or inoculated with a large number of > > standard organisms along with various " house " organisms. " House " > > organisms are organisms that have adapted to a particular product or > > environment and whose metabolic activity is varied from the norm of > its > > particular strain. They are often unique to a manufacturing plant. > > Assays are performed over a predetermined period of time, typically 4 > > to 8 weeks, sometimes with a rechallenge at 3 or 4 weeks. " > > > > Maurice > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Maurice O. Hevey > > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. > > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 > Could you briefly walk me through (and in layman's terms, if possible), > through the process. Hi De, Have you had a chance to read any of the files is the Preservative Info folder in the files area. One file in particular will answer most of your questions in detail. >Preservative_Efficacy_Testing_AOAC_Draft.pdf >Preservative Efficacy Testing Two other files that you should find interesting are: >Microbiological_Methods_for_Cosmetics.pdf >FDA's Microbiological Methods for Cosmetics >Principles of Preservation.pdf >Contains valuable information on preservation of cosmetics Maurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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