re: choosing a protocol

[Guest guest]

Sorry I haven't been jumping it much of late; may be a while. I'm training in Ohio today, finishing up a week of workshops and flying tomorrow to Zurich to spend the rest of October doing workshops in Switzerland and Netherlands, then to Australia and South Korea to train for the first 2 weeks of November. I try to keep up with reading the group, but sometimes don't have the time or energy to write anything pithy and coherent--especially when so many other members respond so effectively.

Thanks,

Pete

This is a 2 parter.

Thanks Letty, Jane, and Pacman (what is your real name;-)?

My training is pretty much in line with your suggestions. I have a form with possible reactions and go over any changes as to when it started and when it wore off. There are still people who cannot see changes...often this is an anxious adult or a parent who is not good at observing. When I have them do a more detailed report in a few weeks...the changes they were not able to see are showing up. I think limiting the number of test runs and going with the most logical choice is a good option.

I was waiting for Pete to jump in for kat's original question....so I'll substitute. " When trying out 4 or 5 protocols to determine which one is best to continue, the client has a strong positive response to a particular protocol, but when we repeat it a second time, there is no response. "

I have had this happen also. I tell the client that the brain was so amazed at what it has just done that it over reacts. I may do it for a few more times and then go on to the next one. Often they notice a change back when this one has been stopped showing that it has been doing something, just more subtly. I believe Pete has said a really strong reaction to the first time a protocol is tried is usually a sign to try others first because you almost never get the really great response again. As for choosing which one...see Letty, Jane and pacman's excellent suggestions.

Rosemary

PS My favorite excuses for not reporting correctly are:

I went on a business trip that day and spent the evening doing Red Bull and shots.

My son went on a sleep-over right after the session and I didn't see him until the next night. (I now tell clients no sleep-overs the first few sessions.)

What are yours?

Re: choosing a protocol

Rosemarywhen things like this happen there are a few approaches you can make.1. Always fully assess before training, I use standard questionnaires, a MiniQ and TOVA, all the information you receive helps. 2. Determine level of arousal, is their brain over or under aroused, or is it both?3. Ask questions, always keep bringing them back to quetions that help describe arousal4. Trial one site at a time to begin with, then when you are getting results you can try 2 channel training

5. Always ask for outcomes 12-24 hrs following a training session. At the beginning nfb training effects only last a few hours to a day at best, anything after a day is NOT nfb effects.6. Read # 5 again - what happens is that your client has no idea how to report their outcomes, they will tell you they had a headache, but because you forgot to tell them " Only up to 24 hrs " you will think it was caused by your training but was really the result of yesterdays drinking binge. 7. Reread # 5 - the quality of your questions will determine how well you can pin point training effects. In many cases you will have to 'train' your clients on how to report their outcomes. Coach them in over and under arousal if need be, but stick to 24 hrs time limit.

8. Don't chase symptoms that are not related to training, this will save you 7-8 protocol changes, which saves you time and their money, and your credibility.Good luckPacman

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pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/251-0337The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Rosemary thanks for your kind words, we learn through practice and by asking questions, and they say, there are no silly questions. In nfb, that is so darn true. Kat's question is a particularly hard one too, I also find a strong reaction to the first session, maybe it is placebo, maybe not, but often once the first one is over then the hard work begins. We all get better at recognising suitable protocols for various symptom pictures, I have a few that are pretty usefull but it took me 2 years practice before I felt comfortable to follow my instincts. I will stick to my suggestions for proper questioning of clients, and sticking to the 24 hours time frame, I have chased enough non-symptoms in my time to try to avoid it as much as possible now. Another problem, is that of left handers being right brain dominant. I have listened to others say that all people, even left handers, are right brained, and that

sticking to left brain dominant protocols works. Well, now I know that is crap! Left handers, and even some right handers, have right brain dominance, and I have had my share of having to undo protocols and reverse side effects. Rosemary, I agree, no more red bull or sleep overs, they really muddy the waters. Take care and keep asking questions, we all learn that way. My real name, nah, you don't need that just yet, all you need to know is that I work in Canberra, Australia and we simply don't have the numbers to make our own forum like this, so thanks to all you wonderful Yanks for allowing us onto your forums! Pacman

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[Guest guest]

Thanks to Letty, Jane, Rosemary and pacman for your responses to my question. You've given me a good list of things to keep in mind when looking for the best protocol and encouragement to keep developing my clinical skills and instincts. I tell my clients to observe themselves the rest of the day and overnight, then have them fill out a questionnaire the following morning and bring it back to me. Still, I believe observing and reporting are part of the problem - and it's probably a good idea to have them note any stimulants or depressants they took that evening. I've known a Red Bull or benzo to get in the way when assessing responses to protocols.

I hadn't heard Pete say that a strong reaction the first time is usually a sign to try others first. I'm assuming that doesn't mean that the protocol with the strong response isn't a good one to pursue; rather, the response the second time isn't likely to compare to the first, so try some others in the meantime. Is that right?

The little I know about assessing arousal level come from a few short workshops I've taken with the Othmer's and ' arousal assessment. I know to look for tension, irritability, insomnia, with over-arousal, and grogginess and thick-headedness with under-arousal. Anything else to look for?

Kat