Re: Dr. G's views on gluten and

[Guest guest]

Is the reason for limiting the sugar and fruit intake just for yeast stuff or

does the sugar feed viruses too?

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

hi, donna! thanks for your reply. i wonder how my

kids will test after being off for 2 years. my older

has had very few exceptions. how do you deal with the

low sugar part? how long do you usually have to stay

on that? my kids would have a hard time with that

even if they were allowed the white bread back. (i

would probably just make my own--making it as rich as

possible without being too sweet.) barb---

Donnaaron <donnaaron@...> wrote:

> Hi Barb -- Dr. Goldberg doesn't restrict gluten at

> all, UNLESS the child shows significant gluten

> sensitivity in the blood work (allergies and celiac

> disease), and that most kids, in his experience, do

> not have this sensitivity to a significant degree.

> This is a portion of the DAN philosophy that he

> disagrees with. He gave several reasons for this,

> unfortunately, I don't remember, and they probably

> went over my head anyway! lol...So, on the " Do's

> and Don'ts " diet, you can give your child white,

> French, sour dough, egg bread (as long as there are

> no egg allergies, of course), bagels, etc., as long

> as they have no dairy and are low in sugar. What is

> absolutely restricted is whole grain breads, because

> they are highly allergenic. I also try to find

> bread that also has no chemical preservatives. Dr.

> Goldberg said that you have to look at bread as a

> " tool " to get protein into the kids

>

> I think now I remember - and other parents may want

> to correct me if I'm not quite getting it right - is

> that the DAN protocol assumes that the autistic

> symptoms and immune problems are caused by " leaky

> gut syndrome " , and you treat it with the GFCF diet.

> Dr. Goldberg said this is wrong...that the " leaky

> gut syndrome " is just one part of the larger immune

> dysfunction and that you must eliminate the foods

> that are stressing the immune system, but gluten is

> not a stressor in most cases.

>

> Hope I explained that well.

> Donna

> New Here, and a few

> questions...

> >

> >

> > I joined this group a few backs, and have been

> > " lurking " a bit. We

> > have three kids - Chloe (4 and no problems),

> Ivan

> > (3 in October - dx

> > autistic last October) and Giselle (7

> months...so

> > far, so good).

> > I've really questioned myself - should I look

> into

> > this for Ivan?

> > Should I try ? Right now Ivan is in an EI

> > program where he

> > receives 10 hours of ABA a week, and we do a

> lot

> > more at home. We

> > just started the gf/cf diet - it seems like

> he's

> > going through

> > withdrawls or something, is that normal - and

> I'm

> > feeling brave and

> > willing to try this. I'm still nervous.

> >

> > From what I've seen here, many people have hf

> > autistic or PPD kids

> > who have made great gains. Ivan is smack-dab

> in

> > the middle of the

> > spectrum, and is just starting to attempt

> > language. He babbles a

> > lot, mimics his older sister, loves to run and

> > play and play with

> > dolls. I'm still worried, though, that maybe

> the

> > protocol won't

> > help him. Has anyone else done this and

> started

> > with a non-verbal

> > kid? What was it like?

> >

> > Ivan certainly has immune system problems. He

> > always reacted to his

> > vaccines (in retrospect, I shouldn't have

> > continued), culminating in

> > a severe reaction last year to a DTaP which

> > required medical

> > intervention. He has eczema and red eyes and

> > seems to always be

> > running a low-grade fever. His allergist says

> > he's immune-deficient,

> > but that he'll " grow out of it " . I've not

> placed

> > to much stock in

> > this idea, since this doctor also insists that

> > there is no such thing

> > as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or a host of

> other

> > immune-system

> > problems.

>

=== message truncated ===

=====

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Although there is a core group of doctors who are very influential in

shaping the DAN protocol and most likely adhere to it, many other doctors

use it as a guide. So it's very difficult to actually characterize the

protocol as it is practiced. Further, a DAN doctor can be a highly

experienced clinician or a young doctor who has simply attended one DAN

conference or anything in between.

For example, before I knew about DAN or , I took my son to an

environmental allergist who Doris Rapp recommended, Wakefield in

Saratoga, CA. He's 70+ years; said he had helped hundreds of autistic kids.

And Dr. Wakefield certainly helped my son who has a long list of food

sensitivities. Recently, I noticed that he is listed as a DAN doctor. But he

never mentioned that affiliation and seems to be following his own protocol.

Jaquelyn McCandless is a DAN doctor who is a proponent of the GFCF diet. In

her book, " Children with Starving Brains; A Medical Treatment Guide for

Autism Spectrum Disorder, " she says, " Because the immune system is so

involved with the gastrointestinal tract, intestinal pathology can

contribute to immune dysregulation, and vice versa (p.89). " In the context

of her book, it seems like her view is not very different than Dr.

Goldberg's on the etiology of leaky guts.

In fact, Dr. McCandless cites Dr. Goldberg's work in her book. And although

her book lists her protocol for treating immune dysfunction, I certainly

don't know enough of both protocols to make a meaningful comparison. Dr.

McCandless takes a very broad spectrum approach to treating ASD kids. Her

book discusses the pros and cons to nearly every medical intervention.

Lynne

> Hi Barb -- Dr. Goldberg doesn't restrict gluten at all, UNLESS the child shows

> significant gluten sensitivity in the blood work (allergies and celiac

> disease), and that most kids, in his experience, do not have this sensitivity

> to a significant degree. This is a portion of the DAN philosophy that he

> disagrees with. He gave several reasons for this, unfortunately, I don't

> remember, and they probably went over my head anyway! lol...So, on the " Do's

> and Don'ts " diet, you can give your child white, French, sour dough, egg bread

> (as long as there are no egg allergies, of course), bagels, etc., as long as

> they have no dairy and are low in sugar. What is absolutely restricted is

> whole grain breads, because they are highly allergenic. I also try to find

> bread that also has no chemical preservatives. Dr. Goldberg said that you

> have to look at bread as a " tool " to get protein into the kids

>

> I think now I remember - and other parents may want to correct me if I'm not

> quite getting it right - is that the DAN protocol assumes that the autistic

> symptoms and immune problems are caused by " leaky gut syndrome " , and you treat

> it with the GFCF diet. Dr. Goldberg said this is wrong...that the " leaky gut

> syndrome " is just one part of the larger immune dysfunction and that you must

> eliminate the foods that are stressing the immune system, but gluten is not a

> stressor in most cases.

>

> Hope I explained that well.

> Donna

> New Here, and a few

>> questions...

>>

>>

>> I joined this group a few backs, and have been " lurking " a bit. We have

>> three kids - Chloe (4 and no problems), Ivan (3 in October - dx autistic last

>> October) and Giselle (7 months...so far, so good). I've really questioned

>> myself - should I look into this for Ivan? Should I try ? Right now

>> Ivan is in an EI program where he receives 10 hours of ABA a week, and we do

>> a lot more at home. We just started the gf/cf diet - it seems like he's

>> going through withdrawls or something, is that normal - and I'm feeling brave

>> and willing to try this. I'm still nervous.

>>

>> From what I've seen here, many people have hf autistic or PPD kids who have

>> made great gains. Ivan is smack-dab in the middle of the spectrum, and is

>> just starting to attempt language. He babbles a lot, mimics his older

>> sister, loves to run and play and play with dolls. I'm still worried,

>> though, that maybe the protocol won't help him. Has anyone else done

>> this and started with a non-verbal kid? What was it like?

>>

>> Ivan certainly has immune system problems. He always reacted to his vaccines

>> (in retrospect, I shouldn't have continued), culminating in a severe reaction

>> last year to a DTaP which required medical intervention. He has eczema and

>> red eyes and seems to always be running a low-grade fever. His allergist

>> says he's immune-deficient, but that he'll " grow out of it " . I've not placed

>> to much stock in this idea, since this doctor also insists that there is no

>> such thing as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or a host of other immune-system

>> problems.

>>

>> Ivan's also anemic, and at one point his iron was tested at 8 (not sure what

>> the unit of measurement is). Does anyone else have a child with

>> anemia/anemic problems? Does this ring true for anyone else?

[Guest guest]

Hi again, Barb --

I just read the labels and look at the " sugars " reading. Breads have varying

amounts of sugar in them. As far as sweeteners are concerned, I use Splenda and

xylitol in place of sugar. My son doesn't know the difference. Xylitol is a

" sugar alcohol " - a carbohydrate that looks, tastes, and measures like sugar.

It doesn't feed yeast. But it's very laxitive, so you have to be careful with

it. You can't completely avoid sugar...I still give my son " Tofuti Cuties " and

Rice Dream Frozen dessert when he wants ice cream, you just have to limit it in

other areas as best you can.

Donna

New Here, and a few

> questions...

> >

> >

> > I joined this group a few backs, and have been

> > " lurking " a bit. We

> > have three kids - Chloe (4 and no problems),

> Ivan

> > (3 in October - dx

> > autistic last October) and Giselle (7

> months...so

> > far, so good).

> > I've really questioned myself - should I look

> into

> > this for Ivan?

> > Should I try ? Right now Ivan is in an EI

> > program where he

> > receives 10 hours of ABA a week, and we do a

> lot

> > more at home. We

> > just started the gf/cf diet - it seems like

> he's

> > going through

> > withdrawls or something, is that normal - and

> I'm

> > feeling brave and

> > willing to try this. I'm still nervous.

> >

> > From what I've seen here, many people have hf

> > autistic or PPD kids

> > who have made great gains. Ivan is smack-dab

> in

> > the middle of the

> > spectrum, and is just starting to attempt

> > language. He babbles a

> > lot, mimics his older sister, loves to run and

> > play and play with

> > dolls. I'm still worried, though, that maybe

> the

> > protocol won't

> > help him. Has anyone else done this and

> started

> > with a non-verbal

> > kid? What was it like?

> >

> > Ivan certainly has immune system problems. He

> > always reacted to his

> > vaccines (in retrospect, I shouldn't have

> > continued), culminating in

> > a severe reaction last year to a DTaP which

> > required medical

> > intervention. He has eczema and red eyes and

> > seems to always be

> > running a low-grade fever. His allergist says

> > he's immune-deficient,

> > but that he'll " grow out of it " . I've not

> placed

> > to much stock in

> > this idea, since this doctor also insists that

> > there is no such thing

> > as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or a host of

> other

> > immune-system

> > problems.

>

=== message truncated ===

=====

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

thanks, lynne! i'm curious, what did you do with your

child? i am assuming you are a pt. of dr. goldberg?

how did you follow the diet and what were your

results? barb

--- Lynne Arnold <lsarnold@...> wrote:

> Although there is a core group of doctors who are

> very influential in

> shaping the DAN protocol and most likely adhere to

> it, many other doctors

> use it as a guide. So it's very difficult to

> actually characterize the

> protocol as it is practiced. Further, a DAN doctor

> can be a highly

> experienced clinician or a young doctor who has

> simply attended one DAN

> conference or anything in between.

>

> For example, before I knew about DAN or , I took

> my son to an

> environmental allergist who Doris Rapp recommended,

> Wakefield in

> Saratoga, CA. He's 70+ years; said he had helped

> hundreds of autistic kids.

> And Dr. Wakefield certainly helped my son who has a

> long list of food

> sensitivities. Recently, I noticed that he is listed

> as a DAN doctor. But he

> never mentioned that affiliation and seems to be

> following his own protocol.

>

> Jaquelyn McCandless is a DAN doctor who is a

> proponent of the GFCF diet. In

> her book, " Children with Starving Brains; A Medical

> Treatment Guide for

> Autism Spectrum Disorder, " she says, " Because the

> immune system is so

> involved with the gastrointestinal tract, intestinal

> pathology can

> contribute to immune dysregulation, and vice versa

> (p.89). " In the context

> of her book, it seems like her view is not very

> different than Dr.

> Goldberg's on the etiology of leaky guts.

>

> In fact, Dr. McCandless cites Dr. Goldberg's work in

> her book. And although

> her book lists her protocol for treating immune

> dysfunction, I certainly

> don't know enough of both protocols to make a

> meaningful comparison. Dr.

> McCandless takes a very broad spectrum approach to

> treating ASD kids. Her

> book discusses the pros and cons to nearly every

> medical intervention.

>

> Lynne

>

> > Hi Barb -- Dr. Goldberg doesn't restrict gluten at

> all, UNLESS the child shows

> > significant gluten sensitivity in the blood work

> (allergies and celiac

> > disease), and that most kids, in his experience,

> do not have this sensitivity

> > to a significant degree. This is a portion of

> the DAN philosophy that he

> > disagrees with. He gave several reasons for this,

> unfortunately, I don't

> > remember, and they probably went over my head

> anyway! lol...So, on the " Do's

> > and Don'ts " diet, you can give your child white,

> French, sour dough, egg bread

> > (as long as there are no egg allergies, of

> course), bagels, etc., as long as

> > they have no dairy and are low in sugar. What is

> absolutely restricted is

> > whole grain breads, because they are highly

> allergenic. I also try to find

> > bread that also has no chemical preservatives.

> Dr. Goldberg said that you

> > have to look at bread as a " tool " to get protein

> into the kids

> >

> > I think now I remember - and other parents may

> want to correct me if I'm not

> > quite getting it right - is that the DAN protocol

> assumes that the autistic

> > symptoms and immune problems are caused by " leaky

> gut syndrome " , and you treat

> > it with the GFCF diet. Dr. Goldberg said this is

> wrong...that the " leaky gut

> > syndrome " is just one part of the larger immune

> dysfunction and that you must

> > eliminate the foods that are stressing the immune

> system, but gluten is not a

> > stressor in most cases.

> >

> > Hope I explained that well.

> > Donna

> >

> New Here, and a few

> >> questions...

> >>

> >>

> >> I joined this group a few backs, and have been

> " lurking " a bit. We have

> >> three kids - Chloe (4 and no problems), Ivan (3

> in October - dx autistic last

> >> October) and Giselle (7 months...so far, so

> good). I've really questioned

> >> myself - should I look into this for Ivan?

> Should I try ? Right now

> >> Ivan is in an EI program where he receives 10

> hours of ABA a week, and we do

> >> a lot more at home. We just started the gf/cf

> diet - it seems like he's

> >> going through withdrawls or something, is that

> normal

=== message truncated ===

=====

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

IM CONFUSED BECAUSE ONE OF THE FIRST TESTS MY SON TOOK WAS FOR THE " LEAKY

GUT " . THE TEST RESULTS CAME BACK POSITIVE FOR THIS SO I STARTED HIM ON THE

GF/CF DIET. WAS I JUST BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE ON THE TEST RESULTS? I WILL

REPEAT. ITS BEEN OVER A YEAR ANYWAY

[Guest guest]

A REPLACEMENT FOR SUGAR, YOU CAN TRY STEVIA AT HEALTH FOOD STORES

[Guest guest]

Vicki

What is the test that " proved " leaky gut. Leaky gut or increased

permeability of the gut is a symptom of many conditions. It is not a disease

by itself. Kathy -NNY

[Guest guest]

to answer that question, id have to go through my files and get you exact

test taken. may take me a little time, but, from memory, the test was

performed by great lakes i believe and it might of been called " organic

acids " test. again, ill go thru my files .

vicki