Re: frustrated

[Guest guest]

Before she changed it initially (in July) the TSH was 4.47.

I don't think I will ever convince any doctor that all these

symptoms are thyroid related. I don't even know if they are

or not. I can't even convince the endo that Synthroid

stinks. She insists that it's " brand name only " and I say,

why should I pay more for name brand, when my darn hair is

still falling out <g>

I just told the pharmacy to give me generic. I can only do

so much and I don't have the time (or the energy) to just

keep going to doctors, etc. so I hope this helps.

Thanks and good luck to you too....

--Alina

> Alina,

>

> I hit the wall of I can't live this way any longer many

> times and understand.

> I hope prozac helps. What was your TSH etc before the

> endo changed you to 125?

>

> I am in the same boat as you. Medication doses that are

> too high or low and leave me symptomatic.

>

> I wish you luck.

>

> Nan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > The endo changed the synthroid to .137 since I guess she

> > figured .125 wasn't enough to change the symptoms, but

> > clearly the .181 I was taking was too much. Other than

> > that, she told me to come back in 3 months.

> > I know that in some circles (specifically, another group

> > I was on) it is believed that the thyroid controls

> > every aspect of your life, but I'm not convinced that's

> > so.

> > Regardless, I spent nearly an hour with my primary this

> > morning who may not be the useless doctor I thought

> > earlier.

> > He (and I agree with him) feels that I am " depressed " --

> > not the sad, suicidal type, but the " something's not

> > firing right in the brain " chemical imbalance type.

> These are symptoms that if I think hard enough, that I've

> > had for a very long time - whether they came before or

> > after the hashi's, I can't say. The hashi's has been

> > around for 12 years. While I don't argue that the

> thyroid is not helping the situation, I think (hope) that

> > there may be something else going on.

> >

> > I know that hormonally I'm out of whack. The gyn found

> > an elevated prolactin level in May, which brought on

> > the visit to the endo, who found a small prolactinoma

> on the pituitary, which was trying to force me into

> > menopause, lowered my estradiol and made my periods

> > disappear. With the meds for the prolactinoma, I think

> > things are getting back to normal in that department.

> > very complicated <g> and I think your three-legged stool

> > analogy is right on target.

> >

> > I don't know. At this point, I don't care what they

> > call it or what it is, I just know I can't keep living

> > in this fog. Hope a little Prozac works :-)

> > --Alina

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. Going from hypo to hyper could make a person feel awful. I try convincing doctors my symptoms are related. Some accept what I say. Others don't.

Some patients do well with generics. And if you do, why pay extra for the brand. I met a lot of patients that feel the same way you do. I hope your actions result in you feeling better.

Nan

Before she changed it initially (in July) the TSH was 4.47.

I don't think I will ever convince any doctor that all these

symptoms are thyroid related. I don't even know if they are

or not. I can't even convince the endo that Synthroid

stinks. She insists that it's "brand name only" and I say,

why should I pay more for name brand, when my darn hair is

still falling out <g>

I just told the pharmacy to give me generic. I can only do

so much and I don't have the time (or the energy) to just

keep going to doctors, etc. so I hope this helps.

Thanks and good luck to you too....

--Alina

[Guest guest]

You guys are exactly right about how an imbalance in the thyroid effects all body symptoms yet you can't get your endo to treat you. I have hit that same wall...awhile back I was about to go postal when they IMO kept passing the buck with each Dr saying "that's not my field,you have to see a____." I have decided that the next place I go will be the Mayo clinic who has a dept for hashimotos encephalopathy and are used to treating out of state patients and make them top priority and know its a body system thing so they have all the specialties right there see you without making you run here there and everywhere from what I'm told. There have to be enough of us with HT I would think with repetitive symptoms to where they would know...especially endos and I would think they would be more educated on different severity of our symptoms....I am non functional and had to go on disability....seems like others don't have as many symptoms or to to such a degree. Did I ever put my story on here? I can't remember.

-- Re: frustrated

Alina,I understand your frustration. I feel the same way. Endos told me it takes 4 to 6 weeks for the body to adjust to a thyroid medication change. I usually feel lousy the first month. Patients can be hyper and have hypo symptoms and vice versa due to hormone ( thyroid, adrenaline, reproductive hormone imbalance.) The endo system is like a three legged stool with each leg representing different hormones that need to be balanced for a patient to feel good. If one is deficient, the shortage would cause a stool to wobble and the patient not to feel well.The problem I have come across is none of my doctors treat thyroid disorders as a whole body system. An Endo treats the thyroid; a gyn treats reproductive hormones, and so on. I have had some pretty weird psyche symptoms when I was hypo/hyper that disappeared with thyroid medication adjustments. You did not mention what treatment your endo doctor recommended after seeing her. Did she decrease Synthroid? The east coast specialist I saw last year told me to be patient. Rome was not built in a day and regulating a thyroid is just as difficult. Let us know what your GP says.Nan

I am just not sure where to go with all this anymore. After going to see the endo in July, she upped the Synthroid to .125. After several weeks, I still felt lousy -- same symptoms (memory loss, brain fog, no energy) so I took matters into my own hands and upped it myself, by taking the .125 and half of the .112 that I had left over. Went back last week and my tsh was .1 (hyper), free t4 was 1.9 (0.8-1.8), t3 uptake was 39 (22-35%) and free t4 index (t7) was 4.7 (1.4-3.8). I think she was annoyed with me <g> Problem being, if I am *hyper* then why do I still have the same symptoms? Nothing has changed really. So I called my family doctor, even though I don't really trust him, and I have an appointment this morning. I am beginning to think that maybe it is a type of clinical depression - symptoms are the same, although certainly not the typical sad depression so who knows. --Alina

[Guest guest]

Hi Alina,

More than likely, an antidepressant will make you feel worse.

Everyone who has tried that route regrets it, doesn't mean there is

someone out there somewhere that has done okay, just the odds are

stacked against it.

I understand what your going through, I been there. Finding the

right meds and doctor is a big help and first step. Keep trying,

feeling defeated is about the worst thing that can happen to anyone.

In 2002 I almost ended my life, was frustrated, depressed and could

care less.. I felt hopeless, but my children helped me see I needed

to stick around for them, they needed me. So glad I did.

I found out a few months ago, my problem is dairy and gluten –I have

had blood tests and saliva tests throughout my life with negative

results, so just because your not allergic doesn't mean you can't

tolerate it. I have now lost 39 pounds and 39 more to go, more

energy than I ever imagined I could have again. Down from size 22 to

16.

Many doctors now try to talk us into believing that the SSRI AD's are

good for whatever ails us... including depression, ADD, panic,

anxiety. My view about the SSRI antidepressants such as Zoloft,

Paxil, Wellbutrin, Prozac, etc, is that these medications cause more

awful side effects than any help they supply. In addition, they also

cause dependence. A few people may feel like they are helpful.

Often with thyroid problems, the SSRI antidepressants should be

avoided, since they " mask " the real thyroid and hormone imbalance

issues.

My daughter has both Graves and Hashi anti-thyroid AB's. We

satisfied the school by taking her to a Pediatric Psychiatrist. The

Psychiatrist told us that she could put her on Prozac, but it would

only mask her thyroid condition until the Hashi's was treated

properly. Meaning if she could tolerate the drug, her Thyroid labs

will not be accurate or would she be treated properly. It could take

up to six months for her thyroid levels via labs to show her body's

true thyroid function after stopping the AD. We opted another path.

Depending on what you need, one great product you can get at good

health food stores is made by Bach, and it's called " Rescue Remedy. "

When the drops (made from flowers) are diluted in a little bit of

warm water, either it can be mildly soothing or it can " zap away the

worst panic feeling in a couple of minutes " . Amazing stuff, and very

safe. It's a flower essence. It's been around for decades. There

are also about 35-40 other Bach remedies for various levels of what

is needed. Great stuff.

Above thoughts is a mixture of my opinions and experience. I do not

claim to be an expert on this, in fact, I am not. However, I am only

telling you this so you are aware and better able to make an informed

decision.

I gather that you are very impatient to find your optimal dosage, but

you need to understand that you gradually become Hypo and the meds

need to be adjusted very slowly or you can become over medicated.

Don't be too hard on yourself, I am sure many of us has done the

same, over-medicated, to just feel better, myself included. You

sound like me several years ago.

Your symptoms sound thyroid. Perhaps, the brain fog, forgetfulness,

depression symptoms can improve very rapidly with T3. According to

your labs, the only reliable test done was the FT4, which shows your

FT4 is high, but where is your FT3 level? You need to know if you

convert the non-active T4 into the active T3 that your body needs.

Many T patients do better with a combo T4/T3. For years, I was given

the synthetic T4 meds and I just felt worse. I have intolerance

issues with the binders, fillers, or dyes in Synthoid and Levoxyl,

but do great with Levothroid and Unithroid. I was able to actually

walk again after three days on Armour and have stuck with it since,

that was in December 2003.

Also, consider looking at your ferritin level. You need a good

storage level of ferritin to optimize your T meds. You want a

ferritin level of 50-75. It's recommended to get a CBC, (check the

hemoglobin and MCV levels) complete iron workup along with serum

ferritin test. If your have a family history of Hemochromatosis or

iron overload, that can also hinder T meds getting into the cells and

would need to be treated accordingly.

Low Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, cortisol, iodine, possasium levels will

make you tired as well. How does your metabolic panel look?

Remember, that many Hypo patients also need to stay away from

goitergenic foods, soy protein and fluoride as well. You may already

know that iron and calcium need to be taken four hours away from

Thyroid meds, and from each other unless it's Albion complexed

calcium and iron.

Boy this is getting long.... I got to run for now. Take care.

Regards,

BJ

>

> I am just not sure where to go with all this anymore.

>

> After going to see the endo in July, she upped the Synthroid

to .125. After several weeks, I still felt lousy -- same symptoms

(memory loss, brain fog, no energy) so I took matters into my own

hands and upped it myself, by taking the .125 and half of the .112

that I had left over.

>

> Went back last week and my tsh was .1 (hyper), free t4 was 1.9 (0.8-

1.8), t3 uptake was 39 (22-35%) and free t4 index (t7) was 4.7 (1.4-

3.8).

>

> I think she was annoyed with me <g>

>

> Problem being, if I am *hyper* then why do I still have the same

symptoms? Nothing has changed really.

>

> So I called my family doctor, even though I don't really trust him,

and I have an appointment this morning. I am beginning to think that

maybe it is a type of clinical depression - symptoms are the same,

although certainly not the typical sad depression so who knows.

>

> --Alina

>

[Guest guest]

All,

It has been a little while since I have been on the boards. I can

certainly related with all of the frustrations. Let me fill you in

what I have been recently and maybe it will help.

I have been hypo for about a year and constant increases in synthroid

didn't seem to be helping. I was having a lot of wierd symptoms

including 2 falls that resulted in a broken saccrum, fatigue, extreme

and rapid weight gain, uticaria (Severe bliserting rashes), polyuria

(constantly having to go to the bathroom), extreme thrist, severe

joint pain, odd severe allergic(anaphylactic) reactions, etc. I was

sent running to an endo, ob/gyn, rheumatologist, immunologist and

nerologist. Finally the Endo, who is great by the way, if you live in

the Norther VA/DC area...Dr. Ali Safa is your man and my primary

physican put together all the info from the other doctors and treated

me as a whole. I want to list what they told me and maybe it will

help you as well.

1. It takes time for the synthroid to get into your system, in my

case it took me 7 months to " normalize " . Part of this issue is Dr.s

wanting to start small and work their way up to higher doeses. While

that can work with a normal HT patient when treating someone, in many

cases the endo said that just by calculating your weight they dr.

should be starting at a minimum does based on that. The original dr.

started with 25mcg when she should have started with 100mcg and

started from there.

2. Uticaria, odd allergic reactions and urinary symptoms are often

adrenal in nature. In my case which is a little more odd than normal,

I developed psuedo-cushings syndrome. Rather than my HT status

fatiguing my adrenals it revved them up and I had such an

overproduction of cortisol that I gained a lot of weight in a hurry,

broke out and had allergic reactions and urinary symptoms. Treating

my thyroid helped to relieve these symptoms.

3. Deep joint pain. Thanks to the consult from the rehumatologist we

found that the depp pain was not in my joints and was not caused by

rheumatoid athritis or lupus. It is the case that some Hash sufferers

develop severe tendonitis (swelling of the tendons not the joints).

She prescribed a certain kind of NSAID called Relafen that did

wonders during the day and Flexeril before bed to help the tendons

and surrounding muscles relax.

4. My falls were caused by a sudden drop in Potassium. Many people

who suffere from autoimmune disease such as Hashi's often have a

problem retaining potassium. I was told to eat a banana a day rather

than an apple a day.....yada yada.

I also had a bone denisty test done even though I am only 31. This is

because taking Synthroid..which have been on for 12 years leaches

calcium from the bones and can cause athritis and osteoperosis. I was

instructed to make sure I take a calcium supplement and have plenty

of calcium in my diet.

5. Uticaria and sores that won't heal. The Dr.s also found that I was

deficient in Vitamin Bs. This can allow to feel fatigued even when

your thyroid is normal, have skin rashes and and wounds that don't

heal. I am not taking a vitamin B complex with my normal multivitamin.

I hope that this helps those of you who are frustrated or looking for

answers.

jipf

>

> You guys are exactly right about how an imbalance in the thyroid

effects all

> body symptoms yet you can't get your endo to treat you. I have hit

that same

> wall...awhile back I was about to go postal when they IMO kept

passing the

> buck with each Dr saying " that's not my field,you have to see

a____. " I have

> decided that the next place I go will be the Mayo clinic who has a

dept for

> hashimotos encephalopathy and are used to treating out of state

patients and

> make them top priority and know its a body system thing so they

have all the

> specialties right there see you without making you run here there

and

> everywhere from what I'm told. There have to be enough of us with

HT I would

> think with repetitive symptoms to where they would

know...especially endos

> and I would think they would be more educated on different severity

of our

> symptoms....I am non functional and had to go on

disability....seems like

> others don't have as many symptoms or to to such a degree. Did I

ever put my

> story on here? I can't remember.

>

>

> -- Re: frustrated

>

> Alina,

>

> I understand your frustration. I feel the same way. Endos told

me it

> takes 4 to 6 weeks for the body to adjust to a thyroid medication

change.

> I usually feel lousy the first month. Patients can be hyper and

have hypo

> symptoms and vice versa due to hormone ( thyroid, adrenaline,

reproductive

> hormone imbalance.) The endo system is like a three legged stool

with

> each leg representing different hormones that need to be balanced

for a

> patient to feel good. If one is deficient, the shortage would

cause a

> stool to wobble and the patient not to feel well.

>

> The problem I have come across is none of my doctors treat thyroid

disorders

> as a whole body system. An Endo treats the thyroid; a gyn treats

> reproductive hormones, and so on.

>

> I have had some pretty weird psyche symptoms when I was hypo/hyper

that

> disappeared with thyroid medication adjustments.

>

> You did not mention what treatment your endo doctor recommended

after seeing

> her. Did she decrease Synthroid? The east coast specialist I

saw last

> year told me to be patient. Rome was not built in a day and

regulating a

> thyroid is just as difficult.

>

> Let us know what your GP says.

>

> Nan

>

>

>

> I am just not sure where to go with all this anymore.

>

> After going to see the endo in July, she upped the Synthroid

to .125. After

> several weeks, I still felt lousy -- same symptoms (memory loss,

brain fog,

> no energy) so I took matters into my own hands and upped it myself,

by

> taking the .125 and half of the .112 that I had left over.

>

> Went back last week and my tsh was .1 (hyper), free t4 was 1.9 (0.8-

1.8), t3

> uptake was 39 (22-35%) and free t4 index (t7) was 4.7 (1.4-3.8).

>

> I think she was annoyed with me <g>

>

> Problem being, if I am *hyper* then why do I still have the same

symptoms?

> Nothing has changed really.

>

> So I called my family doctor, even though I don't really trust him,

and I

> have an appointment this morning. I am beginning to think that

maybe it is

> a type of clinical depression - symptoms are the same, although

certainly

> not the typical sad depression so who knows.

>

> --Alina

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I forgot to add this:

In regards to those of you on birth control, which I was taking for

cystic ovaries, brith control can be causing some of your Hsahi-like

or adrenal symptoms. Part of the reason I developed psuedo-cushings

was a combo of HT and being on birth control.

-jipf

>

> You guys are exactly right about how an imbalance in the thyroid

effects all

> body symptoms yet you can't get your endo to treat you. I have hit

that same

> wall...awhile back I was about to go postal when they IMO kept

passing the

> buck with each Dr saying " that's not my field,you have to see

a____. " I have

> decided that the next place I go will be the Mayo clinic who has a

dept for

> hashimotos encephalopathy and are used to treating out of state

patients and

> make them top priority and know its a body system thing so they

have all the

> specialties right there see you without making you run here there

and

> everywhere from what I'm told. There have to be enough of us with

HT I would

> think with repetitive symptoms to where they would

know...especially endos

> and I would think they would be more educated on different severity

of our

> symptoms....I am non functional and had to go on

disability....seems like

> others don't have as many symptoms or to to such a degree. Did I

ever put my

> story on here? I can't remember.

>

>

> -- Re: frustrated

>

> Alina,

>

> I understand your frustration. I feel the same way. Endos told

me it

> takes 4 to 6 weeks for the body to adjust to a thyroid medication

change.

> I usually feel lousy the first month. Patients can be hyper and

have hypo

> symptoms and vice versa due to hormone ( thyroid, adrenaline,

reproductive

> hormone imbalance.) The endo system is like a three legged stool

with

> each leg representing different hormones that need to be balanced

for a

> patient to feel good. If one is deficient, the shortage would

cause a

> stool to wobble and the patient not to feel well.

>

> The problem I have come across is none of my doctors treat thyroid

disorders

> as a whole body system. An Endo treats the thyroid; a gyn treats

> reproductive hormones, and so on.

>

> I have had some pretty weird psyche symptoms when I was hypo/hyper

that

> disappeared with thyroid medication adjustments.

>

> You did not mention what treatment your endo doctor recommended

after seeing

> her. Did she decrease Synthroid? The east coast specialist I

saw last

> year told me to be patient. Rome was not built in a day and

regulating a

> thyroid is just as difficult.

>

> Let us know what your GP says.

>

> Nan

>

>

>

> I am just not sure where to go with all this anymore.

>

> After going to see the endo in July, she upped the Synthroid

to .125. After

> several weeks, I still felt lousy -- same symptoms (memory loss,

brain fog,

> no energy) so I took matters into my own hands and upped it myself,

by

> taking the .125 and half of the .112 that I had left over.

>

> Went back last week and my tsh was .1 (hyper), free t4 was 1.9 (0.8-

1.8), t3

> uptake was 39 (22-35%) and free t4 index (t7) was 4.7 (1.4-3.8).

>

> I think she was annoyed with me <g>

>

> Problem being, if I am *hyper* then why do I still have the same

symptoms?

> Nothing has changed really.

>

> So I called my family doctor, even though I don't really trust him,

and I

> have an appointment this morning. I am beginning to think that

maybe it is

> a type of clinical depression - symptoms are the same, although

certainly

> not the typical sad depression so who knows.

>

> --Alina

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am so glad that you are doing better. Is your back all healed? It

never ceases to amaze me how Hashi's can cause such havoc on in a

persons life. Sounds like you found a doctor who is worth keeping,

too. The really great ones who understand and treat T patients

optimally and as individuals are rare.

I am glad you are feeling better. BTW, when my potassium was very

low, I took the cell salt for potassium and it is working according

to my labs. My clorestrol has come down, too. The doc is a bit

concerned as the ALT and Alk Phos are still elevated, hopefully with

a good diet they will continue to decrease.

I am so happy that you finally found a solution.

Hugs,

BJ

> >

> > You guys are exactly right about how an imbalance in the thyroid

> effects all

> > body symptoms yet you can't get your endo to treat you. I have

hit

> that same

> > wall...awhile back I was about to go postal when they IMO kept

> passing the

> > buck with each Dr saying " that's not my field,you have to see

> a____. " I have

> > decided that the next place I go will be the Mayo clinic who has

a

> dept for

> > hashimotos encephalopathy and are used to treating out of state

> patients and

> > make them top priority and know its a body system thing so they

> have all the

> > specialties right there see you without making you run here there

> and

> > everywhere from what I'm told. There have to be enough of us with

> HT I would

> > think with repetitive symptoms to where they would

> know...especially endos

> > and I would think they would be more educated on different

severity

> of our

> > symptoms....I am non functional and had to go on

> disability....seems like

> > others don't have as many symptoms or to to such a degree. Did I

> ever put my

> > story on here? I can't remember.

> >

> >

> > -- Re: frustrated

> >

> > Alina,

> >

> > I understand your frustration. I feel the same way. Endos

told

> me it

> > takes 4 to 6 weeks for the body to adjust to a thyroid medication

> change.

> > I usually feel lousy the first month. Patients can be hyper

and

> have hypo

> > symptoms and vice versa due to hormone ( thyroid, adrenaline,

> reproductive

> > hormone imbalance.) The endo system is like a three legged

stool

> with

> > each leg representing different hormones that need to be balanced

> for a

> > patient to feel good. If one is deficient, the shortage would

> cause a

> > stool to wobble and the patient not to feel well.

> >

> > The problem I have come across is none of my doctors treat

thyroid

> disorders

> > as a whole body system. An Endo treats the thyroid; a gyn treats

> > reproductive hormones, and so on.

> >

> > I have had some pretty weird psyche symptoms when I was

hypo/hyper

> that

> > disappeared with thyroid medication adjustments.

> >

> > You did not mention what treatment your endo doctor recommended

> after seeing

> > her. Did she decrease Synthroid? The east coast specialist

I

> saw last

> > year told me to be patient. Rome was not built in a day and

> regulating a

> > thyroid is just as difficult.

> >

> > Let us know what your GP says.

> >

> > Nan

> >

> >

> >

> > I am just not sure where to go with all this anymore.

> >

> > After going to see the endo in July, she upped the Synthroid

> to .125. After

> > several weeks, I still felt lousy -- same symptoms (memory loss,

> brain fog,

> > no energy) so I took matters into my own hands and upped it

myself,

> by

> > taking the .125 and half of the .112 that I had left over.

> >

> > Went back last week and my tsh was .1 (hyper), free t4 was 1.9

(0.8-

> 1.8), t3

> > uptake was 39 (22-35%) and free t4 index (t7) was 4.7 (1.4-3.8).

> >

> > I think she was annoyed with me <g>

> >

> > Problem being, if I am *hyper* then why do I still have the same

> symptoms?

> > Nothing has changed really.

> >

> > So I called my family doctor, even though I don't really trust

him,

> and I

> > have an appointment this morning. I am beginning to think that

> maybe it is

> > a type of clinical depression - symptoms are the same, although

> certainly

> > not the typical sad depression so who knows.

> >

> > --Alina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My potassium, calcium, vitamin D were low and cholesterol and blood pressure high when my TSH was high. When the TSH decrease, the deficiencies, cholesterol and blood pressure became normal.

Has anyone had a problem switching from Levoxyl to Armour? I felt good a few hours after taking Armour the first time and tired as the day goes on. My insomnia decreased, but I tire and yawn a lot. I found exercising the last few days difficult and today I did nothing. My endo said if I do not feel well on Armour, I can go back to taking Levoxyl. But when I complained Levoyxl caused insomnia after taking it a week, she said that was impossible since it takes the body a month to adjust to medication. So I feel I should allow at least a month for my body to adjust before making a decision.

Nan

BTW, when my potassium was very

low, I took the cell salt for potassium and it is working according

to my labs. My clorestrol has come down, too. The doc is a bit

concerned as the ALT and Alk Phos are still elevated, hopefully with

a good diet they will continue to decrease.

[Guest guest]

Nan,

While the dr. is right that it takes at least 4 weeks

for a change in dosage to take full effect, I have

been on a new higher dose of Levoxyl for 10 weeks and

I still suffer insomnia.

jipf

--- phancyforu@... wrote:

> My potassium, calcium, vitamin D were low and

> cholesterol and blood pressure

> high when my TSH was high. When the TSH decrease,

> the deficiencies,

> cholesterol and blood pressure became normal.

>

> Has anyone had a problem switching from Levoxyl to

> Armour? I felt good a

> few hours after taking Armour the first time and

> tired as the day goes on. My

> insomnia decreased, but I tire and yawn a lot. I

> found exercising the last

> few days difficult and today I did nothing. My

> endo said if I do not feel

> well on Armour, I can go back to taking Levoxyl.

> But when I complained Levoyxl

> caused insomnia after taking it a week, she said

> that was impossible since it

> takes the body a month to adjust to medication. So

> I feel I should allow at

> least a month for my body to adjust before making a

> decision.

>

> Nan

> > BTW, when my potassium was very

> > low, I took the cell salt for potassium and it is

> working according

> > to my labs. My clorestrol has come down, too. The

> doc is a bit

> > concerned as the ALT and Alk Phos are still

> elevated, hopefully with

> > a good diet they will continue to decrease.

> >

> >

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Do you only take your Armour once a day? The T3 in it has a much shorter 'life' than the synthetic T4 you had been taking...I believe about 6-8 hours. I am one who had tried both Levoxyl and Synthroid before going on Armour. I had insomnia really bad and also experienced yawning "fits" and bad fatigue in the evening. My Dr. had me divide the dose into 2 doses a day (for example, prescription is for 1 grain/60mg...take half in the morning and then half in the evening). That way, you have a steady dose of T3 circulating instead of a big dose in the morning with nothing left by evening....which may be why you feel so tired.

HTH!

Joy

Re: Re: frustrated

My potassium, calcium, vitamin D were low and cholesterol and blood pressure high when my TSH was high. When the TSH decrease, the deficiencies, cholesterol and blood pressure became normal. Has anyone had a problem switching from Levoxyl to Armour? I felt good a few hours after taking Armour the first time and tired as the day goes on. My insomnia decreased, but I tire and yawn a lot. I found exercising the last few days difficult and today I did nothing. My endo said if I do not feel well on Armour, I can go back to taking Levoxyl. But when I complained Levoyxl caused insomnia after taking it a week, she said that was impossible since it takes the body a month to adjust to medication. So I feel I should allow at least a month for my body to adjust before making a decision. Nan

BTW, when my potassium was very low, I took the cell salt for potassium and it is working according to my labs. My clorestrol has come down, too. The doc is a bit concerned as the ALT and Alk Phos are still elevated, hopefully with a good diet they will continue to decrease.

[Guest guest]

Nan,

You could try splitting the daily dose of Armour into two doses each

day. Also, you might want to check if your doctor gave you an

equivalent dose of Armour compared to Levoxyl. Example if you were

taking 100 mcg of L, you s/b taking 1 grain of A. Or, 150 mcg of L

is equivalent to 1.5 grains of A (90 mg). Insomnia seems to be a

common side effect of Levoxyl, I experienced it as well and also

severe aches/pains and got to the point of barely being able to

walk. Surprising within a week of changing to Armour I could skip

and run –the aches and pains disappeared. Plus, Armour has T4, T3,

T2, T1 and Calcitonin, which I may need and the synthetics lack.

I am certain that my TSH has nothing to do with my levels of

potassium, calcium, vitamin D, etc. as the highest my TSH has ever

been was 2.8. And has been suppressed for a very long time. The

many doctors I visited on my journey to get better have all freaked

out as it went to <.0001 with T meds, it's now <.01. It's coming up,

but slowly. Undoubtedly, a big factor of why I was only finally

diagnosed after we found out my DD had Hashi's. I was told more

times than I can count it's all in my head, try an AD.

Another interesting and worthy note that most doctors forgot about

and then later ignored is potassium levels after iodine was put into

salt. We require twice the potassium as iodine.

If all else fails, you may need to revisit other possibilities. I

had numerous lactose, celiac/gluten, and digestive tests both blood

and saliva with negative results, but do not tolerate either. I was

even told I was allergic to potatoes by a fortuneteller ND. Since

being on a gluten/dairy free diet, I have been able to lose weight

and lower my meds, almost to half the dose I used to need. The T

meds are now getting into my cells where they weren't before.

BJ

>

> My potassium, calcium, vitamin D were low and cholesterol and blood

pressure

> high when my TSH was high. When the TSH decrease, the

deficiencies,

> cholesterol and blood pressure became normal.

>

> Has anyone had a problem switching from Levoxyl to Armour? I felt

good a

> few hours after taking Armour the first time and tired as the day

goes on. My

> insomnia decreased, but I tire and yawn a lot. I found exercising

the last

> few days difficult and today I did nothing. My endo said if I do

not feel

> well on Armour, I can go back to taking Levoxyl. But when I

complained Levoyxl

> caused insomnia after taking it a week, she said that was

impossible since it

> takes the body a month to adjust to medication. So I feel I should

allow at

> least a month for my body to adjust before making a decision.

>

> Nan

> > BTW, when my potassium was very

> > low, I took the cell salt for potassium and it is working

according

> > to my labs. My clorestrol has come down, too. The doc is a bit

> > concerned as the ALT and Alk Phos are still elevated, hopefully

with

> > a good diet they will continue to decrease.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

jipf,

What dose are you taking? My insomnia started within 24 hours of taking Levoxyl 137 mcg. I woke after three hours of sleep wide eyed and bushy tailed the first night. Within a few days I was only sleeping an hour. After two weeks, I collapsed and slept for 10 hours.

Nan

Nan,

While the dr. is right that it takes at least 4 weeks

for a change in dosage to take full effect, I have

been on a new higher dose of Levoxyl for 10 weeks and

I still suffer insomnia.

jipf

[Guest guest]

It was after taking 100mcg then 125mcg and then back

to 100mcg...but I had morre than doubled my dose from

50mcg....I am the same and now it seems my days and

nights ar all mixed up I am groggy all day long and

then about 10pm or so I am suddenly wide awake until

about 5-6m and then I crash in a hurry.

I had previously applied to s Hopkins for

consideration of my case and they just got back with

me that they were willing to see me. I have a good

endo but wonder if I should collect all my records and

keep the appointment anyways.

jipf

--- phancyforu@... wrote:

> jipf,

>

> What dose are you taking? My insomnia started

> within 24 hours of taking

> Levoxyl 137 mcg. I woke after three hours of

> sleep wide eyed and bushy tailed

> the first night. Within a few days I was only

> sleeping an hour. After two

> weeks, I collapsed and slept for 10 hours.

> Nan

> > Nan,

> >

> > While the dr. is right that it takes at least 4

> weeks

> > for a change in dosage to take full effect, I have

> > been on a new higher dose of Levoxyl for 10 weeks

> and

> > I still suffer insomnia.

> >

> > jipf

> >

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to mention my glucose and joint problems subsided since I started taking Armour. When I took Synthroid and Levoyxl, I had joint pain round the clock, could not walk, etc and passed out after eating a carb. Yesterday was my birthday and the first time in years I was not in pain and eat pasta without passing out.

Nan

,

I just wanted to suggest that you also have her test you for Insulin Resistance. Many PCOS'ers me included have IR and it too causes Joint Pain. So.. if your body isn't using it's insulin correctly you might also need Glucophage / metformin.

I was first Diagnosed with PCOS 6 years ago and was glucophage for it and my joint pain subsided. I stopped it after my 1st daughter was born in 2002. I was just diagnosied with Hashi's this year and my endo plans to put me back on the glucophage after my Thyroid gets sorted out - she said I needed both even though my sugar are NOT out of whack. Anyway just a thought since you have both too.

[Guest guest]

HI ,

Try calling a pharmacy that compounds meds, they may know of some

docs that prescribe Armour. Also, a local pharmacy may be helpful as

well. At one of my some desperate times, I called 42 doctors before

I got a yes s/he would prescribe Armour. You may need to be

creative, remember " if there is a will, there is a way. "

Keep trying, don't give up, I know it is extremely frustrating.

Good luck,

BJ

>

> Hi,

> Where do you get it? My doc won't write a script so I'm taking

matters in my

> own hands and buy off the net but where do I get it. help....should

know in

> a couple days about the labs are and post them.

>

>

> -- Re: Re: frustrated

>

> Nan I was on Levothyroxine for years. I did fine at 1st. I never

had the

> joint pain while I was on Levothyroxine. About a year or so go I

started

> having all kinds of problems. Heart racing, anxiety, could not

sleep, dog

> tired. Heat I could not stand it. I was burning up all the time. So

I got

> tired of the run around with the doctors and in June I went in and

demanded

> that they run some test on me. Well its been since June and I am

still at

> square one. My reg doctor did the test. Ran all the heart test

to rule

> out the ticker. All normal there. What was confusing my reg. doctor

was my

> DHEA levels. So she finally decides to sent me on to an ENDO. Ok

before I

> leave to go see this Endo I request my reg doctor to start me on

Armour. So

> I was on Armour for about 5 weeks. I was starting to feel much

better but my

> dose was to low because I was trying to work my way up the ladder

with out

> tossing myself into heart palps again. I will say while on Armour

is when

> the joint pain raised its ugly head for the 1st time. By the time I

get into

> this Endo my TSH was 17 something. I was only on 1 gram of Armour.

Ok this

> Endo like most Endo does not want to treat with Armour so she jerks

me off

> and puts me on Synthroid and Cytomel. I agree to take it because I

really

> didn't have a choice. This Endo was not going to do the Armour

thing. I

> figured I would give this a try being she was adding the Cytomel

and see how

> it goes. If it does not work then I know I have tried it. I can say

I tried

> it your way and it didn't work now put me back on Armour.

> So anyway I was doing ok for the 1st few weeks on this other than I

been

> having terrible joint pain. On week 4 the old heart palps started

again. I

> called the Endo and she took me off the Cytomel. So now I am just

on the

> Synthroid which the dose is way low. I am really hypo. I have a few

more

> weeks before my labs are to be drawn again. I keep telling myself

to try to

> hang on and not take nothing else so the labs will be a true

reading for

> this Endo to see this Synthroid is not working. I have a bottle of

Armour

> that keeps calling my name that was left over from when I was able

to try it

> before this Endo switched me.

> I had to laugh at this Endo when I told her I was on Armour. She

said that's

> from a PIG!! She said it like I cant believe your are swallowing

something

> from a pig. I thought to myself don't ya eat bacon or how about do

you ever

> have a ham sandwich!! lol

> I also finally found out while dealing with this Endo that I do

have hashi

> and also PCOS. I thought I had the hashi but could not get my reg

doctor to

> confirm it for me. The PCOS was a surprise to me. I am going to

give this

> Endo one more shot at me next month for my labs and office visit

and then I

> will be moving on to someone else if things don't get better. It

really

> makes me angry because I have spent so much money on these doctors

and my

> insurance has spent thousands on all these test they have had me

take and I

> am still at square one again.

>

> Re: Re: frustrated

>

>

> ,

>

> I hope your journey to the top of the ladder is short. As for

joint pain

> being thyroid related, I am living proof. When I took Synthroid

and

> Levoxyl, I could not stand, walk, etc. As soon as I started

taking Armour

> the aches and pains disappeared. What thyroid medication do you

take?

>

> Nan

>

>

> I never had the joint pain until they started messing with my meds.

I hurt

> all over. I also have the thumb joints and finger joint pain. Even

the tips

> of my fingers hurt. My knees and back are hurting also. By mid

afternoon I

> cant hardly make my legs climb steps. They just wont lift!!

> I know for a fact that this joint pain is related to my thyroid. I

never had

> this problem till they messed with my meds and now I am so hypo. I

am trying

> to work myself back up the ladder of increases.

>

>

[Guest guest]

NAN,

Happy Belated Birthday!

BJ

>> I just wanted to mention my glucose and joint problems subsided since I > started taking Armour. When I took Synthroid and Levoyxl, I had joint pain round > the clock, could not walk, etc and passed out after eating a carb. > Yesterday was my birthday and the first time in years I was not in pain and eat > pasta without passing out. > > Nan> > > ,> > I just wanted to suggest that you also have her test you for Insulin > > Resistance. Many PCOS'ers me included have IR and it too causes Joint Pain. So.. > > if your body isn't using it's insulin correctly you might also need > > Glucophage / metformin. > > > > I was first Diagnosed with PCOS 6 years ago and was glucophage for it and my > > joint pain subsided. I stopped it after my 1st daughter was born in 2002. > > I was just diagnosied with Hashi's this year and my endo plans to put me back > > on the glucophage after my Thyroid gets sorted out - she said I needed both > > even though my sugar are NOT out of whack. Anyway just a thought since you > > have both too.> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Sending you a Birthday Wish Nan.

Re: Re: frustrated

I just wanted to mention my glucose and joint problems subsided since I started taking Armour. When I took Synthroid and Levoyxl, I had joint pain round the clock, could not walk, etc and passed out after eating a carb. Yesterday was my birthday and the first time in years I was not in pain and eat pasta without passing out. Nan

,I just wanted to suggest that you also have her test you for Insulin Resistance. Many PCOS'ers me included have IR and it too causes Joint Pain. So.. if your body isn't using it's insulin correctly you might also need Glucophage / metformin. I was first Diagnosed with PCOS 6 years ago and was glucophage for it and my joint pain subsided. I stopped it after my 1st daughter was born in 2002. I was just diagnosied with Hashi's this year and my endo plans to put me back on the glucophage after my Thyroid gets sorted out - she said I needed both even though my sugar are NOT out of whack. Anyway just a thought since you have both too.

[Guest guest]

If your talking about buying Armour with out a script I don't know. My reg. doctor wrote me a script for Armour. I don't think this new Endo I am seeing is going to write me a script for Armour. I am going to play it out and see what happens. I know I have heard of folks ordering it from someplace online but I have no clue. Sorry I cant be of any help.

Re: Re: frustrated

,I hope your journey to the top of the ladder is short. As for joint pain being thyroid related, I am living proof. When I took Synthroid and Levoxyl, I could not stand, walk, etc. As soon as I started taking Armour the aches and pains disappeared. What thyroid medication do you take? Nan

I never had the joint pain until they started messing with my meds. I hurt all over. I also have the thumb joints and finger joint pain. Even the tips of my fingers hurt. My knees and back are hurting also. By mid afternoon I cant hardly make my legs climb steps. They just wont lift!!I know for a fact that this joint pain is related to my thyroid. I never had this problem till they messed with my meds and now I am so hypo. I am trying to work myself back up the ladder of increases.

Copyright ©2003 LongBraid Designs

[Guest guest]

Happy Birthday Nan

Hello All!

I am glad that I took your advice to set up the appt

with Hopkins. My latest labs came back with a

supressed tsh. The Dr. says everything else is normal

so we are back to decreasing my synthroid. I like the

dr. but I am tired of going up and down on doses all

the time. i have been losing and gaining the same

40lbs every year and flirting with high levels of

cortisol cholesterol and then bottoming out. I went

off of the birth control which was contributing to the

cortisol problem and now my migraines are back with a

vengance and my periods are ruthless. My dr. is

compassionate and tries to adjust doses looking for

that perfect range but has not yet been willing to

consider T3 or Armour. Hopefully JH will be a little

more progressive in their approach.

I'll let you know what happens.

Jean

--- MC wrote:

> Sending you a Birthday Wish Nan.

>

>

>

> Re: Re: frustrated

>

>

> I just wanted to mention my glucose and joint

> problems subsided since I started taking Armour.

> When I took Synthroid and Levoyxl, I had joint pain

> round the clock, could not walk, etc and passed out

> after eating a carb. Yesterday was my birthday

> and the first time in years I was not in pain and

> eat pasta without passing out.

>

> Nan

>

>

>

> ,

> I just wanted to suggest that you also have her

> test you for Insulin Resistance. Many PCOS'ers me

> included have IR and it too causes Joint Pain. So..

> if your body isn't using it's insulin correctly you

> might also need Glucophage / metformin.

>

> I was first Diagnosed with PCOS 6 years ago and

> was glucophage for it and my joint pain subsided. I

> stopped it after my 1st daughter was born in 2002.

> I was just diagnosied with Hashi's this year and my

> endo plans to put me back on the glucophage after my

> Thyroid gets sorted out - she said I needed both

> even though my sugar are NOT out of whack. Anyway

> just a thought since you have both too.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the birthday wishes. When do you go to JH? I hope and pray seeing them helps. Changing medication doses and fluctuation weight is frustrating.

Good luck,

Nan

Happy Birthday Nan

Hello All!

I am glad that I took your advice to set up the appt

with Hopkins. My latest labs came back with a

supressed tsh. The Dr. says everything else is normal

so we are back to decreasing my synthroid. I like the

dr. but I am tired of going up and down on doses all

the time. i have been losing and gaining the same

40lbs every year and flirting with high levels of

cortisol cholesterol and then bottoming out. I went

off of the birth control which was contributing to the

cortisol problem and now my migraines are back with a

vengance and my periods are ruthless. My dr. is

compassionate and tries to adjust doses looking for

that perfect range but has not yet been willing to

consider T3 or Armour. Hopefully JH will be a little

more progressive in their approach.

I'll let you know what happens.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks BJ

Nan

NAN,

Happy Belated Birthday!

BJ

[Guest guest]

Thanks . Cute birthday graphic.

Nan

Sending you a Birthday Wish Nan.

[Guest guest]

One thing I noticed missing is that each person is different. We have different life style, stressors, diets, and needs.

If Alina or anyone else wishes to refrain from seeing doctors, take an anti depressant, etc., their choice is based on their needs etc.

[Guest guest]

,

Wow! We have been down similar paths. I am sorry things are not better for you. I hope they determine the cause of the DHEA problem. When I took a DHEA supplement, a dermotologist told me it causes my hair to fall out. My hair continued falling out when I discontinued taking it. The hair loss stopped when my thyroid medication was decreased. I underwent heart and other testing too, which came back negative. Several endos told me Synthroid and Cytomel cause chest pains and palpitations. That is why my endo discontinue Cytomel.

Everytime my sister's tests are normal, her doctors say she is a medical mystery. I told her the only mystery is what is taught in medical school.

I had trouble getting doctors to prescribe Armour. They gave me it's an animal gland too. Like the meat they eat does not come from an animal. lol When my internist finally prescribed Armour, the dose was too high and I ended up with a high TSH like you. Then, the east coast specialist switched me to Levoxyl and say no more Armour. She never considered the dose might be too high. Now after almost a year of trying several medications, I am back on Armour.

The east coast specialist is the only doctor that check for Hashimoto. She was shocked to learn I had a thyroid condition for 40 years and never underwent any of the standard tests she did.

I think too many med changes messes up your body. Changes every month or two has been hell for me. I am dizzy from being back to square one so many times. I had the same symptoms while taking 137 mcg Levoxyl. I burned up after eating, lose 6 pounds, and felt awful from lack of sleep, etc.

I am not sure what is causing my joint pain since I took Lipitor and thyroid medication. You may be right about Armour causing joint pain. Lipitor is an anti inflammatory. I forgot to take Lipitor last night, but took Armour this morning and could stand, walk, etc. today. The pain so bad nothing helped. I decided not to take Lipitor tonight and see if I still have joint pain tomorrow. Doctors keep blaming my pain on Lipitor. Maybe they are wrong.

I am glad you are giving your endo another chance. I hope things improve.

Nan

Nan I was on Levothyroxine for years. I did fine at 1st. I never had the joint pain while I was on Levothyroxine. About a year or so go I started having all kinds of problems. Heart racing, anxiety, could not sleep, dog tired. Heat I could not stand it. I was burning up all the time. So I got tired of the run around with the doctors and in June I went in and demanded that they run some test on me. Well its been since June and I am still at square one. My reg doctor did the test. Ran all the heart test to rule out the ticker. All normal there. What was confusing my reg. doctor was my DHEA levels. So she finally decides to sent me on to an ENDO. Ok before I leave to go see this Endo I request my reg doctor to start me on Armour. So I was on Armour for about 5 weeks. I was starting to feel much better but my dose was to low because I was trying to work my way up the ladder with out tossing myself into heart palps again. I will say while on Armour is when the joint pain raised its ugly head for the 1st time. By the time I get into this Endo my TSH was 17 something. I was only on 1 gram of Armour. Ok this Endo like most Endo does not want to treat with Armour so she jerks me off and puts me on Synthroid and Cytomel. I agree to take it because I really didn't have a choice. This Endo was not going to do the Armour thing. I figured I would give this a try being she was adding the Cytomel and see how it goes. If it does not work then I know I have tried it. I can say I tried it your way and it didn't work now put me back on Armour.

So anyway I was doing ok for the 1st few weeks on this other than I been having terrible joint pain. On week 4 the old heart palps started again. I called the Endo and she took me off the Cytomel. So now I am just on the Synthroid which the dose is way low. I am really hypo. I have a few more weeks before my labs are to be drawn again. I keep telling myself to try to hang on and not take nothing else so the labs will be a true reading for this Endo to see this Synthroid is not working. I have a bottle of Armour that keeps calling my name that was left over from when I was able to try it before this Endo switched me.

I had to laugh at this Endo when I told her I was on Armour. She said that's from a PIG!! She said it like I cant believe your are swallowing something from a pig. I thought to myself don't ya eat bacon or how about do you ever have a ham sandwich!! lol

I also finally found out while dealing with this Endo that I do have hashi and also PCOS. I thought I had the hashi but could not get my reg doctor to confirm it for me. The PCOS was a surprise to me. I am going to give this Endo one more shot at me next month for my labs and office visit and then I will be moving on to someone else if things don't get better. It really makes me angry because I have spent so much money on these doctors and my insurance has spent thousands on all these test they have had me take and I am still at square one again.

[Guest guest]

Well I caved in this morning and switched myself back on the Armour. As I laid in bed last night trying to get to sleep with my heart racing I decided I cant wait a couple more weeks on this Synthroid. I know Synthroid works for some folks and I am not bashing it. Its just not working for me. I know this new Endo I am seeing is going to have a fit and may boot me out her office. I just cant stand it anymore and I want to get to feeling better.

Like I said in another post the joint pain 1st started when I was on Armour. I never had it when I was on Levothyroxine but when I was on Levothyroxine my thyroid labs were in range. Once I dropped the Levothyroxine because of heart racing and anxiety and switched over to Armour I went really hypo. I was taking a too low dose of Armour only because I was stepping up the ladder very carefully with little increases so I would not crash. I was only up to 1 grain and my TSH had gone up to 17 so I know I was hypo. I think that's were the joint pain came from. I think I am still really hypo. I am hoping once I get my Armour built up to were I should be the joint pain with go way.

As to your Lipitor its a Cholesterol lowering drug. Yes these types of drugs will cause legs pains. I took Zocor years go for my Cholesterol and it messed with my legs terrible. I had to go off of it. Zocor is in the same family of drugs as Lipitor.

It did take me about a week off Zocor to finally get rid of my legs hurting when I was on it. I kept complaining of my legs hurting and my doctor told me she didn't think it was the Zocor. I went on forever taking till I got fed up and stopped on my own and the leg pain went away. The joint pain I am having right now is different. Its in my joints. If I remember right the pain from the Zocor I was taking was more in my calves and thighs. Like it was in the muscles.

Anyway I hope that little bit of info I gave you on my experience with Zocor will help you figure out your problems with your walking.

Re: Re: frustrated

,Wow! We have been down similar paths. I am sorry things are not better for you. I hope they determine the cause of the DHEA problem. When I took a DHEA supplement, a dermotologist told me it causes my hair to fall out. My hair continued falling out when I discontinued taking it. The hair loss stopped when my thyroid medication was decreased. I underwent heart and other testing too, which came back negative. Several endos told me Synthroid and Cytomel cause chest pains and palpitations. That is why my endo discontinue Cytomel. Everytime my sister's tests are normal, her doctors say she is a medical mystery. I told her the only mystery is what is taught in medical school. I had trouble getting doctors to prescribe Armour. They gave me it's an animal gland too. Like the meat they eat does not come from an animal. lol When my internist finally prescribed Armour, the dose was too high and I ended up with a high TSH like you. Then, the east coast specialist switched me to Levoxyl and say no more Armour. She never considered the dose might be too high. Now after almost a year of trying several medications, I am back on Armour.The east coast specialist is the only doctor that check for Hashimoto. She was shocked to learn I had a thyroid condition for 40 years and never underwent any of the standard tests she did. I think too many med changes messes up your body. Changes every month or two has been hell for me. I am dizzy from being back to square one so many times. I had the same symptoms while taking 137 mcg Levoxyl. I burned up after eating, lose 6 pounds, and felt awful from lack of sleep, etc. I am not sure what is causing my joint pain since I took Lipitor and thyroid medication. You may be right about Armour causing joint pain. Lipitor is an anti inflammatory. I forgot to take Lipitor last night, but took Armour this morning and could stand, walk, etc. today. The pain so bad nothing helped. I decided not to take Lipitor tonight and see if I still have joint pain tomorrow. Doctors keep blaming my pain on Lipitor. Maybe they are wrong. I am glad you are giving your endo another chance. I hope things improve. Nan

Nan I was on Levothyroxine for years. I did fine at 1st. I never had the joint pain while I was on Levothyroxine. About a year or so go I started having all kinds of problems. Heart racing, anxiety, could not sleep, dog tired. Heat I could not stand it. I was burning up all the time. So I got tired of the run around with the doctors and in June I went in and demanded that they run some test on me. Well its been since June and I am still at square one. My reg doctor did the test. Ran all the heart test to rule out the ticker. All normal there. What was confusing my reg. doctor was my DHEA levels. So she finally decides to sent me on to an ENDO. Ok before I leave to go see this Endo I request my reg doctor to start me on Armour. So I was on Armour for about 5 weeks. I was starting to feel much better but my dose was to low because I was trying to work my way up the ladder with out tossing myself into heart palps again. I will say while on Armour is when the joint pain raised its ugly head for the 1st time. By the time I get into this Endo my TSH was 17 something. I was only on 1 gram of Armour. Ok this Endo like most Endo does not want to treat with Armour so she jerks me off and puts me on Synthroid and Cytomel. I agree to take it because I really didn't have a choice. This Endo was not going to do the Armour thing. I figured I would give this a try being she was adding the Cytomel and see how it goes. If it does not work then I know I have tried it. I can say I tried it your way and it didn't work now put me back on Armour. So anyway I was doing ok for the 1st few weeks on this other than I been having terrible joint pain. On week 4 the old heart palps started again. I called the Endo and she took me off the Cytomel. So now I am just on the Synthroid which the dose is way low. I am really hypo. I have a few more weeks before my labs are to be drawn again. I keep telling myself to try to hang on and not take nothing else so the labs will be a true reading for this Endo to see this Synthroid is not working. I have a bottle of Armour that keeps calling my name that was left over from when I was able to try it before this Endo switched me. I had to laugh at this Endo when I told her I was on Armour. She said that's from a PIG!! She said it like I cant believe your are swallowing something from a pig. I thought to myself don't ya eat bacon or how about do you ever have a ham sandwich!! lolI also finally found out while dealing with this Endo that I do have hashi and also PCOS. I thought I had the hashi but could not get my reg doctor to confirm it for me. The PCOS was a surprise to me. I am going to give this Endo one more shot at me next month for my labs and office visit and then I will be moving on to someone else if things don't get better. It really makes me angry because I have spent so much money on these doctors and my insurance has spent thousands on all these test they have had me take and I am still at square one again.