RE: turning a breach and easing childbirth

[Guest guest]

Loreen,Has the pt considered external version--37 weeks is the time when it could be attempted. It is not ideal, and perhaps one of the following will work first. But you've got to work fast on these:Postural inversion may work if it is started immediately:POSTURAL INVERSIONPostural inversion (lying with the hips propped up 9-12 inches higher than the head, stomach empty, and done three times per day for up to 20 minutes at a time) after the 30th week: approximately 88.7-96% success rate in nearly 1000 patients. This was reported in OB/GYN News Vol.12, No.1.POSTURAL INVERSION VARIATION: SLANT BOARDBegin at 32-35 weeks gestation; do three times daily for 10-15 minutes each time, on an empty stomach, and the baby is active. Prop one end of an ironing board securely on a sofa or chair 12 to 18 inches high (or may use slant board). Lie down, bend knees but keep feet flat on board. Relax, breathe deeply, avoiding tension in the body. Gravity drops the baby's head into the fundus, tucks it, and baby can then do a somersault to a vertex position. This has an 87% success rate if done by the 37th week.Swimming in warm water may help, and the mother should drink plenty of water to keep amniotic fluid levels as high as possible. Some people have the father talk near the vaginal opening to encourage the fetus in that direction. As for childbirth, acupressure on appropriate pain points, as well as Jasmine oil, can be extremely effective. Jasmine oil is an amazing pain reliever that also makes the contractions more effective. Have your pt sniff it on a cloth each time she has a strong contraction.Rubus gemmo would be great to give her at this time to prepare the uterus for labor.Birthing in water can reduce pain and complications as well.The hp given would need to match the mentals and physicals of what is going on during labor. Fear of death, sensitive to sounds are some common characteristics of women in labor. Having someone to keep her focused on the experience and not the pain will help to keep her open as she needs to be to give birth to her child. When we clamp down because of fear of pain, labor is hindered and pain is intensified. During transition, she will need to have someone to keep her focused on the idea of seeing her baby at the end. Unless you can find an ND midwife, this woman would probably do best with a trained doula if she is to give birth in the hospital. Doulas provide the mental and physical support women need during this incredible time. I hope this helps, and I really hope this mom can have a vaginal birth! Christie Winkelman, N.D., M.A. Naturopathic Physician & Counselorwww.insightstohealth.netph: fax: Insights to Health, LLCDiscovery through medicineHolistic healthcare in Multnomah Villagedrcwinkelman@...Village Offices, Suite 3022929 SW Multnomah Blvd. Portland, OR 97219www.insightstohealth.net Hi EveryoneI have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen on it.If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:arnica 5chastea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be cimicifuga rasemosa?caulophyllum 5chgelsinium 5chuterinum 4ch10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min prn.I have a couple questions about this protocol?Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy, and would have to order 5ch)Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?Thanks for your input.Loreen Dawson, NDSechelt, BC

[Guest guest]

Hi Loreen- You are correct, Actaea Racemosa and Cimicifuga Racemosa are two names for the same remedy. I have been able to get Actaea from Seroyal, but only in a 6CH and I think it's being discontinued. I have used combinations of remedies similar to what you describe based on Dr. Gueniot's teaching. I have combined kali carb, actaea, caulophyllum, arnica, phosphorus and other possibilities depending on the patient (gels if there is fear or cervical paralysis), nervous system drainers if indicated. 5 pellets of each remedy are put into a small water bottle (8-12oz), shaken well and sipped every 15 minutes or after each contraction. Shaking it prior to each sip changes the potency slightly, so it acts a bit deeper with each sip. Have her partner or

anyone attending to her during the birth hold onto the bottle and give her the sips. It's great because even in a hospital setting you will not raise eyebrows, it just looks like the patient is having a bit of water. I've used similar strategies in other acute conditions as well (colds, injuries, skin reactions, acute menstrual pain, and RA flares and it really works well). After the birth, I will use post- trauma remedies (ie: arnica, staphysagria, ledum, bellis) dosed in the same way. Both births I have used these combos with have had easy deliveries and no tearing (they also did perineal stretching prior to delivery, starting about 2-3 weeks before their due date). I have also used 1 dose of actaea 200k 1x/week as prep, starting 2-3 weeks prior to delivery. 5CH seems to be the choice potency for physical symptoms, draining and acute dosing. Dr. G says 30K or

5CH are useful for these types of situations, he's also stated that for remedies prepared by companies other than Unda, a 30CH is loosely equivalent to an Unda 30K. I will typically use the lowest potency I have on hand and that seems to work fine. Consider having the Mom put head phones playing music on the lower end of her uterus (along with the pulsatilla) to attempt to turn the baby.Good Luck! N.D.N.field, RI401*597*0477 To: Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:24:43 PMSubject: turning a breach and easing childbirth

Hi EveryoneI have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen on it.If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:arnica 5chastea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be cimicifuga rasemosa?caulophyllum 5chgelsinium 5chuterinum 4ch10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min prn.I have a couple

questions about this protocol?Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy, and would have to order 5ch)Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?Thanks for your input.Loreen Dawson, NDSechelt, BC------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Moxa works best between 34-36weeks, but still worth doing, it can also be done in addition to other methods. Yes, pulsatilla as well. Some practitioners also can do "external-version", need someone who is experienced.Dr. Igor N. Schwartzman Whole Family Wellness Center, LLC 2920 SW Dolph Court, Suite 2 Portland, OR 97219 www.wholefamilywellnesscenter.com This e-mail message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and destroy the original and any copies of this e-mail. Subject: turning a breach and easing childbirthTo: Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 6:24 PM

Hi Everyone

I have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The

baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a

C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the

baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you

have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen

on it.

If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp

remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a

phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:

arnica 5ch

astea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I

didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be

cimicifuga rasemosa?

caulophyllum 5ch

gelsinium 5ch

uterinum 4ch

10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min

prn.

I have a couple questions about this protocol?

Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?

If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?

Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy,

and would have to order 5ch)

Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?

Thanks for your input.

Loreen Dawson, ND

Sechelt, BC

[Guest guest]

I’m going to ad to Dr. Schwartzman’s

comment about moxa. It works really well from everything I’ve learned,

however, there are some dangers as the baby starts to turn in terms of the

umbilical chord. So best done in a medical setting.

Janet Hague, LAc, MA, LMT, EFT-Adv

Acupuncture Wellness, LLC

3939 NE MLK Jr. BLVD

Suite 203

Portland, OR 97212

www.acutap.net

This e-mail message and any attachments are

intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed

and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from

disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,

or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and destroy

the original and any copies of this e-mail.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Igor Schwartzman

Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:16 AM

To:

Subject: Re: turning

a breach and easing childbirth

Moxa works best between 34-36weeks, but still worth

doing, it can also be done in addition to other methods. Yes,

pulsatilla as well. Some practitioners also can do

" external-version " , need someone who is experienced.

Dr. Igor N. Schwartzman

Whole Family Wellness

Center, LLC

2920 SW Dolph Court, Suite 2

Portland, OR 97219

www.wholefamilywellnesscenter.com

This e-mail message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the

individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information

that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable

law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication

in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and destroy the original

and any copies of this e-mail.

From: Loreen Dawson

<loreendtelus (DOT) net>

Subject: turning a breach and easing childbirth

To:

Date: Thursday, December

18, 2008, 6:24 PM

Hi Everyone

I have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The

baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a

C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the

baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you

have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen

on it.

If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp

remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a

phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:

arnica 5ch

astea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I

didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be

cimicifuga rasemosa?

caulophyllum 5ch

gelsinium 5ch

uterinum 4ch

10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min

prn.

I have a couple questions about this protocol?

Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?

If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?

Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy,

and would have to order 5ch)

Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?

Thanks for your input.

Loreen Dawson, ND

Sechelt, BC

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[Guest guest]

I know you said your patient was opposed to moxa, but acupuncture or moxa is really wonderful at turning babies. Bl 67 is the premiere point it is located just lateral to the lateral nail of the littlest toe where the nail and flesh meet. She can even do some acupressure there. An acupuncturist would also do some body points....it seems that the best homeopathic remedy for childbirth would be the one that she needs during it, depending on her reaction to the birth. i.e. if she gets really weak and can't move dizzy droopy, anxiety with anticipation and "stage fright" if the labor isn't progressing and the cervix isn't dilated with stuck labor. giving up or cowardice "i can't do it" and are worse with heat and feel down right scared that they just can't do it you might think of Gelsemium. IF the labor isn't progressing

but instead of getting scared they are getting more weepy and dependent and clingy you might think more of pulsatilla Nux vomica with ineffectual contractions, excessively irritable, sensation of needing to evacuate bowels but unable to etc. Chamomilla with extreme irritability (getting down right nasty) nerves on edge and pain is unbearable. I don't remember what the name is but there is a book specific to homeopathy and births. There is a book called "the homeopathic childbirth manual: a practical guide for labor, birth and the immediate post partum period. It is $16 on amazon. Hope that helpsPamela Plank ND LAcSubject:

turning a breach and easing childbirthTo: Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 7:24 PM

Hi Everyone

I have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The

baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a

C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the

baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you

have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen

on it.

If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp

remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a

phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:

arnica 5ch

astea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I

didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be

cimicifuga rasemosa?

caulophyllum 5ch

gelsinium 5ch

uterinum 4ch

10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min

prn.

I have a couple questions about this protocol?

Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?

If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?

Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy,

and would have to order 5ch)

Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?

Thanks for your input.

Loreen Dawson, ND

Sechelt, BC

[Guest guest]

Hi Loreen,

An additional technique is visualization/meditation on the baby being

in the " optimal birthing position " . If you have a picture of baby in

the LOA position that you can give mom, she can put it on her bathroom

mirror, or somewhere that she will see it frequently throughout the

day. Mom and baby are very connected so baby is likely to respond to

moms affirmation. This is a hypnobirthing technique that can be used

throughout the pregnancy and especially in the 3rd trimester. I am not

sure if 37 weeks is too late for baby to turn, but it doesn't hurt to

try. I have heard of babes turning into a breech position during labor

so I guess it is possible to turn anytime.

In Health,

Jennie Weisenburger, ND

[Guest guest]

As well for turning a baby (maybe for earlier in a pregnancy) is to have her reading or listening to music with head down and butt in the air to encourage more space and gravity to assist in turning the baby. She can also swim on her front to do the same thing - front crawl and breaststroke work wonderfully.

The visualization, talking to baby and putting music on the lower part of the belly are all great ideas as well. Good luck, Jodi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr. Jodi Meacher, Naturopathic Doctor and Doula

Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Guest guest]

You can also check out the website www.spinningbabies.com for turning a breech.

Allie

: loreend@...Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:24:43 +0000Subject: turning a breach and easing childbirth

Hi EveryoneI have a 38 yo patient, 37 weeks pregnant with her first child. The baby is still in breech position, and the local MDs are scheduling a C-section. We are going to try hp pulsatilla tomorrow to turn the baby, but am wondering if there are any other pearls out there you have seen work. I have already suggested moxa, but she was not keen on it.If we are able to turn the baby, I am also wondering about hp remedies to ease childbirth. I was going through some notes from a phone conference with Dr. Abel. I have written down:arnica 5chastea rasmosa 5ch - I can't find this remedy anywhere so suspect I didn't hear it correctly. Does anyone know what it is? Could it be cimicifuga rasemosa?caulophyllum 5chgelsinium 5chuterinum 4ch10 pellets of each, mixed into 8 ounces of water, 1 tsp every 15 min prn.I have a couple questions about this protocol?Has anyone tried it? And how helpful do you think it was?If so, did you use 5ch potencies? or something else?Can anyone think of a reason not to use 30C? (I have them all handy, and would have to order 5ch)Does anyone know the significance of 5ch in general?Thanks for your input.Loreen Dawson, NDSechelt, BC