Re: Withholding thoughts!!

[Guest guest]

In a case with yeast overload, I would suggest going fun places vs. candy, sugar feeds yeast................even coins or $$ helps, prizes etc. You could be contributing to the cause if you have yeast issues as the cause usually caused by antibiotics

Subject: Re: Withholding thoughts!!To: miralax Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 7:30 PM

Hi ,That is great that you are starting to see some progress! Regarding your question, my suggestions would be:1) Continue to keep him off the milk and any other foods that you think could be constipating and keep up the probiotics. I do that for my son as well. Even though my son's constipation is due to withholding, I want to make it as easy as possible for him to go when he feels the urge.2) Does he show interest in wearing underwear or does he feel more comfortable in pull-ups right now? If he still likes his pull-ups, then maybe consider letting him keep them for now. The main thing is to get him to go poop in his pull-up without withholding, which it sounds like he is starting to do (yay!). I would let him continue having lots of successes and rewards pooping in the pull-up for a little while to really ingrain positivity around his pooping behavior. Rewards are really

important (at least they were for us!)And if he has slips for any reason and does withhold, just ignore the behavior, clean up and move on. The only reaction we should give is positive reaction to positive behaviors.To begin potty training (even if still in pull up), you could try a potty sit with him if he is open to it once or twice a day at regular times (e.g., morning and evening about an 30-60 min after meals). Consider offering him a candy (or other small reward) just for sitting down and trying if he is hesitant to do so. If something comes out great, if not, that's OK too. The idea would be to just start getting him used to sitting at a regular time each day. Ideally, he would have a poop on the potty during one of these regular potty sits so that you could make a big deal about it for him and give him lots of positive feedback etc. plus ANOTHER reward for pooping IN the potty. My

suggestion would be making the reward for pooping in the potty different than the reward for pooping in the pull-up (ideas – small cookies, candies, toys). Also, I highly recommend getting a good pooping book and reading it to him while he is sitting or at another time during the day. The book should include something about how the body works to make poop, etc. and about how poop is normal. I have a couple that I could recommend that I think are good. Also, talking about some bodily function concepts might help. Things we talk about are: we "push poop out of our bodies" when we feel "Mr. Poo knocking at the door" and how we eat food and the parts that we don't need turn into poop. We always wave bye-bye to "Mr Poo and Miss Wee" who get flushed down the toilet to play with their friends in the big lake (no i didn't make all this up - i picked it up here and there from pottying books LOL!)

If you make the reward for pooping in the potty enticing enough, then he might start initiating it on his own (even while still in the pull-up) at times other than his regular potty sits. This is what happened with our son. You can move him to underwear whenever during this process you feel he is ready, but I would suggest not moving him to underwear if he is resisting it for any reason. There are other things you could do to get him to warm up to the idea of underwear later if that goes on too long. But the main thing is getting him to poop in the potty – pullup or no pullup.Another idea is to keep his bowels moving as much as possible during this time so that he a) has an easy time going but also has as many opportunities to get pooping rewards as possible. The more successes he has, the faster this all will work I think. We are now doing kidlax, natural calm, probiotics,

prune juice and stewed prunes mixed with yogurt, plus whole grains, fruit and limited dairy. Good luck with this and definitely let me know how it goes!Cristina> > > > >> > > > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that > > > > withholding > > > > > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do > > > this, > > > > but I > > > > > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the > muscle > > > and > > > > > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt

allow > > > holding > > > > to > > > > > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt > > > > conciensly > > > > > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep > > state > > > > there > > > > > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool > movements > > > are > > > > > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on > the > > > > > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is > > if > > > > the > > > > > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are > > missing/damaged > > > > than > > > > > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I > just > > > > wonder > > >

> > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how > > many > > > > have > > > > > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still > diagnosed > > > with > > > > > withholding? Jennie<><> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

If your son had that severe of a reaction to PEG I would definitely get him off the mineral oil, Kirkmans chewable seems to help tremendously and it tastes sweet.....................not only is he not being able to absorb any nutrients, he is probably absorbing the petrochemical. Fennel is a cathardic and helps them go, Shaklee makes a product called herb-lax that is all natural if you could find something to hide it in..................click on read label http://home.uplink.net/~healthy/20141/

It's like a pressed powder containing alfalfa sprouts, senna, etc.

the multi-vitatmin is awesome, the are called ocean wonders, they make your nails strong and hard and they grow along with your hair in days................I've used them all my life

http://home.uplink.net/~healthy/20021/

Subject: Re: Re: Withholding thoughts!!To: miralax Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 8:43 PM

Actually no, they were not treated, by the time we got the diagnoses (4 months after he got sick), he was well on his way to recovery, he still has not fully recovered, but almost. Right now my main concern is his constipation. I want it under control. I believe it is the root of the problem, then the miralax, then the allergies, but I really believed the lack of frequent bowel movements is the original culprit. No I have not tried OLE, I have heard about it. The only thing we did for the virus' was I started cooking with garlic, actually helped. It is now something we always put on our meat (least noticeable) now. Where do you reccommend me getting the OLE from? I am going to start him on olive oil every night vs mineral oil, I'm just waiting for him to "go" before I change anything. Really all we are doing now is:

Probiotic (Align) 1 daily.

Mineral oil 1 tsp 1x daily at bedtime

Benefiber 3x daily

Spring Water, we have even bought an ice maker to use to make his ice

I would really like to hear from anyone who has used olive oil as an intestinal lubricant and which brand is best. Deanna,Fort Worth, TexasMom to Cody age 10, Dx: EE (2/08), Guilliam Barre Syndrome(3/08) , Epstein Barr Virus-Mono(6/ 08), Environmental Allergies (mountain cedar & cats)(3/08), Eczema (since birth).

From: Jennie <mykidshisgift@ yahoo.com>To: miralax@yahoogroups .comSent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 6:38:53 PMSubject: Re: Re: Withholding thoughts!!

EGD?? Honestly I dont know about your sons type of biopsies! I found out when our new gastro said our son needed biopsy and I told him about him already having one a couple of years earlier, he said this was different. Apparently these ones are deeper into the intestinal wall and now he is going back to a surgeon gastro that is going even deeper...uuugh! Hopefully this is what your son already had done, you can askthe gastro! Our son also has had uppper and lower scope and he has issues with his esophogus! Apparently the balloon is an alternative test also to test the contractions andIm guessing maybe nerve ability also! You know we suspected the guillian barre withour son just after his vaccine reaction. In reading your sons diagnoses it seems that he is really struggling with viral issues, could most likely be his gi issues. Seems viral/bacteria issues can really mess with the gi! Has he been treated for the viral issues? Beings there is

no scripts to deal with the viral have you considered or tried natural like OLE etc? We really feel our sons viral symptoms got under control with these methods. Jennie<><

From: deanna gentry <dkg116yahoo (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Re: Withholding thoughts!!To: miralax@yahoogroups .comDate: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 11:36 AM

You know, he had a colonoscopy in February, just weeks after the balloon test. They did biopsies, would that biopsy include nerve cell? They did a EGD at the same time and did biopsies of the upper, he had biopsies done throughout his gi tract. Last month, he had another EGD, no colonoscopy. This was done due to his EE, he will now have an EGD every 3 months until he gets better. Deanna,Fort Worth, TexasMom to Cody age 10, Dx: EE (2/08), Guilliam Barre Syndrome(3/08) , Epstein Barr Virus-Mono(6/ 08), Environmental Allergies (mountain cedar & cats)(3/08), Eczema (since birth).

From: Jennie <mykidshisgift@ yahoo.com>To: miralax@yahoogroups .comSent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 3:12:14 PMSubject: Re: Withholding thoughts!!

Did he have the biopsy for nerve cells or just the balloon? I have read about the balloon test, that is for muscle contractions. So your son didnt test negative for the test? Mega colon also makes sense on the holding thought, takes lots of extra stool to stimulate the contractions. Can take days to move verses daily as you said if it doesnt harden first! Jennie<><>> Cody has had the motility/nerve cell testing, his colon has been stretched out so far that until he is extremely full, then he cannot feel anything. The test was referred to as the "balloon test". We (my husband and I) believe it started when he was being potty trained, he didn't want to Stop playing and go to the bathroom, we were always catching him holding it.

Then that would cause constipation, then it hurt, then he would hold it more so then he would be constipated, etc...this continued for years, now he is stretched out. It may or may not be reversible, due to his age. Right now were are using the benefiber 3 times daily and the mineral oil 1 spoon daily (at bedtime only). He is going a lot about every other day (if he makes it 2 full days and still has not gone that night I give him 2 spoons). I am going to continue using this for six months (if there are no compications from the meds), then slowly take him off. > Deanna,> Fort Worth, Texas> Mom to Cody age 10, Dx: EE (2/08), Guilliam Barre Syndrome(3/08) , Epstein Barr Virus-Mono(6/ 08), Environmental Allergies (mountain cedar & cats)(3/08), Eczema (since birth). > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> From:

Jennie <mykidshisgift@ ...>> To: miralax@yahoogroups .com> Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 8:43:49 AM> Subject: Withholding thoughts!!> > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that withholding > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do this, but I > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the muscle and > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow holding to > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt conciensly > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep state there > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool movements are > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on the > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is if

the > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are missing/damaged than > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I just wonder > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how many have > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still diagnosed with > withholding? Jennie<><>

[Guest guest]

A few things we've learned:

- if your kids are big enough, have them sit backwards on the toilet. If not, get a little step stool for them to rest their feet on while on the potty chair. This release sphincter muscles and holding is not an option (this is from our amazing gi doc).

- warning: kinda gross - a friend of mine told me how his fishing buddies refer to the feeling of having to go as "turtling." When we used this analogy with our guy, he thought it was absolutely hilarious and will sometimes tell me "the turtle is coming out!"

- you know how they have the smile faces at the doc to explain pain levels? You could have a chart like that in the bathroom and keep track of pain levels meanwhile talking about how it "didn't hurt!" or "that was a lot better than last time!" trying to play down the pain (but not discounting them at the same time). Over time, you and your child may be able to see that the pain is either subsiding or maybe not too bad.

Good luck with all the training!!

Re: Withholding thoughts!!To: miralax Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 7:30 PM

Hi ,That is great that you are starting to see some progress! Regarding your question, my suggestions would be:1) Continue to keep him off the milk and any other foods that you think could be constipating and keep up the probiotics. I do that for my son as well. Even though my son's constipation is due to withholding, I want to make it as easy as possible for him to go when he feels the urge.2) Does he show interest in wearing underwear or does he feel more comfortable in pull-ups right now? If he still likes his pull-ups, then maybe consider letting him keep them for now. The main thing is to get him to go poop in his pull-up without withholding, which it sounds like he is starting to do (yay!). I would let him continue having lots of successes and rewards pooping in the pull-up for a little while to really ingrain positivity around his pooping behavior. Rewards are really important (at least they were for us!)And if he has slips for any reason and does withhold, just ignore the behavior, clean up and move on. The only reaction we should give is positive reaction to positive behaviors.To begin potty training (even if still in pull up), you could try a potty sit with him if he is open to it once or twice a day at regular times (e.g., morning and evening about an 30-60 min after meals). Consider offering him a candy (or other small reward) just for sitting down and trying if he is hesitant to do so. If something comes out great, if not, that's OK too. The idea would be to just start getting him used to sitting at a regular time each day. Ideally, he would have a poop on the potty during one of these regular potty sits so that you could make a big deal about it for him and give him lots of positive feedback etc. plus ANOTHER reward for pooping IN the potty. My suggestion would be making the reward for pooping in the potty different than the reward for pooping in the pull-up (ideas – small cookies, candies, toys). Also, I highly recommend getting a good pooping book and reading it to him while he is sitting or at another time during the day. The book should include something about how the body works to make poop, etc. and about how poop is normal. I have a couple that I could recommend that I think are good. Also, talking about some bodily function concepts might help. Things we talk about are: we "push poop out of our bodies" when we feel "Mr. Poo knocking at the door" and how we eat food and the parts that we don't need turn into poop. We always wave bye-bye to "Mr Poo and Miss Wee" who get flushed down the toilet to play with their friends in the big lake (no i didn't make all this up - i picked it up here and there from pottying books LOL!) If you make the reward for pooping in the potty enticing enough, then he might start initiating it on his own (even while still in the pull-up) at times other than his regular potty sits. This is what happened with our son. You can move him to underwear whenever during this process you feel he is ready, but I would suggest not moving him to underwear if he is resisting it for any reason. There are other things you could do to get him to warm up to the idea of underwear later if that goes on too long. But the main thing is getting him to poop in the potty – pullup or no pullup.Another idea is to keep his bowels moving as much as possible during this time so that he a) has an easy time going but also has as many opportunities to get pooping rewards as possible. The more successes he has, the faster this all will work I think. We are now doing kidlax, natural calm, probiotics, prune juice and stewed prunes mixed with yogurt, plus whole grains, fruit and limited dairy. Good luck with this and definitely let me know how it goes!Cristina> > > > >> > > > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that > > > > withholding > > > > > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do > > > this, > > > > but I > > > > > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the > muscle > > > and > > > > > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow > > > holding > > > > to > > > > > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt > > > > conciensly > > > > > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep > > state > > > > there > > > > > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool > movements > > > are > > > > > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on > the > > > > > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is > > if > > > > the > > > > > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are > > missing/damaged > > > > than > > > > > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I > just > > > > wonder > > > > > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how > > many > > > > have > > > > > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still > diagnosed > > > with > > > > > withholding? Jennie<><> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

A cement mixer truck - that is a great analogy for boys!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel

> > that

> > > > > > withholding

> > > > > > > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those

that

> > do

> > > > > this,

> > > > > > but I

> > > > > > > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the

> > > muscle

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt

> allow

> > > > > holding

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child

couldnt

> > > > > > conciensly

> > > > > > > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during

> sleep

> > > > state

> > > > > > there

> > > > > > > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool

> > > movements

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure

> on

> > > the

> > > > > > > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions!

> This

> > is

> > > > if

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are

> > > > missing/damaged

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > this would appear as holding to some, but not the

case.

> I

> > > just

> > > > > > wonder

> > > > > > > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory

> how

> > > > many

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still

> > > diagnosed

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > withholding? Jennie<><

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie,

Sorry to jump in here but I am using OLE as part of an anti-fungal rotation for my son and I am interested in what you said about using it for viral issues as well. can you tell me how much is recommended for a child ? Also, you mentioned garlic helping with constipation, does it have to be taken fresh or can it be sauteed as part of a meal?

Thank you,

Carole Withholding thoughts!!> > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that withholding > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do this, but I > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the muscle and > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow holding to > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt conciensly > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep state there > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool movements are > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on the > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is if the > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are missing/damaged than > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I just wonder > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how many have > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still diagnosed with > withholding? Jennie<><>

[Guest guest]

Just butting in, we used the garlic, fresh clove, chopped it ourselves and added to the food. In my experience you can add quite a bit to any meat or to make garlic butter toast, but other than that, it has ruined many foods for us. Deanna,Fort Worth, TexasMom to Cody age 10, Dx: EE (2/08), Guilliam Barre Syndrome(3/08), Epstein Barr Virus-Mono(6/08), Environmental Allergies (mountain cedar & cats)(3/08), Eczema (since birth).

To: miralax Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 8:33:08 AMSubject: Re: Re: Withholding thoughts!!

Hi Jennie,

Sorry to jump in here but I am using OLE as part of an anti-fungal rotation for my son and I am interested in what you said about using it for viral issues as well. can you tell me how much is recommended for a child ? Also, you mentioned garlic helping with constipation, does it have to be taken fresh or can it be sauteed as part of a meal?

Thank you,

Carole Withholding thoughts!!> > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that withholding > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do this, but I > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the muscle and > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow

holding to > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt conciensly > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep state there > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool movements are > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on the > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is if the > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are missing/damaged than > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I just wonder > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how many have > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still diagnosed with > withholding? Jennie<><>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole, the OLE is considered a very strong viral killer along

with the fungal issues! In using as fungal killer you are taking care

of the viral issues also! Garlic is even stronger for the

viral/fungal issues. Yes you can sautee it but very little as

possible and we always add just at the end of cooking. Cooking and

crushing, the allicin depletes quickly after(this is the vital

ingredient in garlic)! That is great if your child well eat it in

food! Our son wont(well he is on pureeds and doesnt eat what we eat)

so I take a spoon full of the pre chopped garlic in olive oil and

crush mix in a spoonful of his pureed and he just swallows. I

typically use if a flu ect. hits our home and it works great with

usually 1 dose(I dont think this would be good to daily regularly

with children). We try to keep in our cooked foods, but if a big bug

hits some of us well actually crush and swallow. This shouldnt be

used or at least with caution if someone is on blood thinners. Garlic

tends to thin the blood this is why it is so good for the heart etc.

Garlic well do even better with the fungal(mycotoxin issues) than the

OLE, but the ole is easier. Also consider cooking/sautee with Olive

oil instead it has similar properties to the OLE! Garlic is to me

considered a miracle food! It has quite a incredible history due to

its use, even when the black plagues killed millions they discovered

the societies using garlic regularly was not affected by the plagues

etc. Jennie<><

> >

> > Cody has had the motility/nerve cell testing, his colon has been

> stretched out so far that until he is extremely full, then he

cannot

> feel anything. The test was referred to as the " balloon test " . We

(my

> husband and I) believe it started when he was being potty trained,

he

> didn't want to Stop playing and go to the bathroom, we were always

> catching him holding it. Then that would cause constipation, then

it

> hurt, then he would hold it more so then he would be constipated,

> etc...this continued for years, now he is stretched out. It may or

> may not be reversible, due to his age. Right now were are using the

> benefiber 3 times daily and the mineral oil 1 spoon daily (at

bedtime

> only). He is going a lot about every other day (if he makes it 2

full

> days and still has not gone that night I give him 2 spoons). I am

> going to continue using this for six months (if there are no

> compications from the meds), then slowly take him off. 

> >  Deanna,

> > Fort Worth, Texas

> > Mom to Cody age 10, Dx: EE (2/08), Guilliam Barre Syndrome

(3/08) ,

> Epstein Barr Virus-Mono(6/ 08), Environmental Allergies (mountain

> cedar & cats)(3/08), Eczema (since birth).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: Jennie <mykidshisgift@ ...>

> > To: miralax@yahoogroups .com

> > Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2008 8:43:49 AM

> > Subject: Withholding thoughts!!

> >

> >

> > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that

> withholding

> > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do this,

> but I

> > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the muscle and

> > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow holding

> to

> > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt

conciensly

> > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep state

> there

> > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool movements are

> > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on the

> > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is if

the

> > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are missing/damaged

> than

> > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I just

> wonder

> > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how many

> have

> > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still diagnosed

with

> > withholding? Jennie<><

> >

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>       

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for this information. Tye does fine with garlic but I will heed you advice to barely saute it cause I'm sure I'm over-cooking it currently. He does drink a few teaspoons of olive oil daily with the OLE in it at the beginning of meals.

Carole Withholding thoughts!! > > > > > > I wanted to bring this subject up due to I really feel that > withholding > > diagnoses in many is wrong. Im sure there are those that do this, > but I > > feel it is just about impossible to hold though if the muscle and > > nerves are working correctly. The body just wouldnt allow holding > to > > long in nature. Example is during sleep, a child couldnt conciensly > > hold in sleep, infact we are so relaxed that during sleep state > there > > couldnt be concience holding. Most of my sons stool movements are > > during sleep or first immediate waking! Stool pressure on the > > intestinal walls stimulates the muscle contractions! This is if the > > nerve cells are working! If the nerve cells are missing/damaged > than > > this would appear as holding to some, but not the case. I just > wonder > > with many being diagnosed with this withholding theory how many > have > > had the motility/nerve cell testing? And then still diagnosed with > > withholding? Jennie<>< > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â >