Re: Myxedema?

[Guest guest]

No i am not on Armour....if my doctor can't help me, its time for me to get back to see a endocrinologist....its been years since I have seen one....Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Hi : This is the first time I am hearing this word myxedema. Can you further explain what you know about it? And when you said around the 18th month, you lost it, what did you notice then? And when you went on HC, you lost more of it and got your shape back? Does this mean you had gained weight bc of this and then when taking meds, you lost the weight? I keep asking doctors if there could be some reason for all of this puffiness on my body since being diagnosed and no one ever mentioned this. Thanks for the info. cindi22595 wrote: are you sure this isn't myxedema from hypothyroidism?Although i lost a lot of water and/or myxedema around the 18th month of thyroid hormone (armour) treatment....it wasn't until I started on HC (hydrocortisone) for hypo-adrenals that I really lost the myxedema and got my natural body shape back. cindi>> The way I can tell I have water retention, is i can not only see it, but > feel it. i feel like my skin in my arms, my face, my legs, my abdomen, are > stretched to the limits. i get bags under my eyes, and this is something I can > see...i can see the swelling in my ankle, especially

the left one, and my foot > actually overlaps the top of my shoe...its disgusting> Candy> > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)>

[Guest guest]

Myxedema is the swelling of the skin and other tissues - an edema -

associated with hypothyroidism. It is the accumulation of

mucoproteins in tissue fluid. makes you thick and puffy. it's

especially noticeable around the eyes and cheeks (nasal folds)...even

lips get plumper...tongue bigger. My " thyroid dermopathy " was so bad

that even my fingers and toes were quite swollen. strange thing was -

i didn't even realize it until they went back to normal.

i'd say ordinarily it doesn't happen unless hypothyroidism is

prolonged, but some folks do have myxedema as a primary symptom. i

did.

What i noticed around the 18th month was a 10 lb. weight loss within

about 2 weeks. it was obvious it was basically a release of

fluid/mucin from my tissues as even my legs felt different.

On HC, I believe my thyroid hormone was able to work better, plus

better antibody suppression most likely. And I just improved even

more. HC can be good for the skin issues of hypo I believe.

To know if this is just myxedema (which is what hypothyroidism is

called in some of the medical literature)....I think your Free levels

might give you a clue. Also, have you had any adrenal testing?

check your outer arms and front of thighs...can you pinch up any

skin? or is it very thickened?

cindi

> >

> > The way I can tell I have water retention, is i can not only see

> it, but

> > feel it. i feel like my skin in my arms, my face, my legs, my

> abdomen, are

> > stretched to the limits. i get bags under my eyes, and this is

> something I can

> > see...i can see the swelling in my ankle, especially the left

one,

> and my foot

> > actually overlaps the top of my shoe...its disgusting

> > Candy

> >

> >

> >

> > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists

> on family

> > favorites at AOL Food.

> > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Forgot to answer one of your questions.

My hypo was untreated for so long, that I had moved into the category

called Myxedematous Cachexia...and I had actually lost weight because

of not absorbing nutrients. So I wasn't overweight when diagnosed.

However...i did lose that 10 lbs. of fluid.

I had gained weight back in my 30s when my symptoms started to

interfere with my life - but didn't get diagnosed until age 48.

cindi

>

> Hi :

>

> This is the first time I am hearing this word myxedema. Can you

further explain what you know about it? And when you said around the

18th month, you lost it, what did you notice then? And when you went

on HC, you lost more of it and got your shape back? Does this mean

you had gained weight bc of this and then when taking meds, you lost

the weight? I keep asking doctors if there could be some reason for

all of this puffiness on my body since being diagnosed and no one

ever mentioned this.

>

> Thanks for the info.

[Guest guest]

one other thing....are you on Armour?

just asking because most folks report a better diuretic quality with

Armour Thyroid....

cindi

> >

> > The way I can tell I have water retention, is i can not only see

> it, but

> > feel it.

[Guest guest]

Endos are not known for good thyroid treatment among thyroid forum

members. :-(

maybe an alternative/holistic doctor...

or check mary shomon's Top thyroid doc for a doc in your area...or the

armour thyroid site has a doc locator search feature.

cindi

>

> No i am not on Armour....if my doctor can't help me, its time for me

to get

> back to see a endocrinologist....its been years since I have seen

one....

>

[Guest guest]

30 years after being diagnosed Hashimoto's and put on conventional

thyroid treatment, i have *proven myxemotous swelling of my aortic

valve .

i also have been unable to pinch the skin of my upper arms or thighs

for decades --even tho i never had weight problems (till recently

i have just finally titrated off the last of my sytnrhodi and onto

all-armour in january, and upping/fine tuning my armour dosage...

And i can just 2 weeks ago! start pinching the skin in my upper arm!!!

wild

-Carol

PS i still have big water retention issues: swelling of ankles and

abdoment etc.. especially during the HEAt waves we have had already a

few times here in SoCal.

pps I FINALLY did some conventional testing (on proper day !!) and i

have slightly HIGH aldosterone and renin !

)and test as High cortisol on Saliva tests)

no wonder why i have swlling

>

> Myxedema is the swelling of the skin and other tissues - an edema -

> associated with hypothyroidism. It is the accumulation of

> mucoproteins in tissue fluid. makes you thick and puffy. it's

> especially noticeable around the eyes and cheeks (nasal

folds)...even

> lips get plumper...tongue bigger. My " thyroid dermopathy " was so

bad

> that even my fingers and toes were quite swollen. strange thing

was -

> i didn't even realize it until they went back to normal.

>

> i'd say ordinarily it doesn't happen unless hypothyroidism is

> prolonged, but some folks do have myxedema as a primary symptom. i

> did.

>

> What i noticed around the 18th month was a 10 lb. weight loss

within

> about 2 weeks. it was obvious it was basically a release of

> fluid/mucin from my tissues as even my legs felt different.

>

> On HC, I believe my thyroid hormone was able to work better, plus

> better antibody suppression most likely. And I just improved even

> more. HC can be good for the skin issues of hypo I believe.

>

> To know if this is just myxedema (which is what hypothyroidism is

> called in some of the medical literature)....I think your Free

levels

> might give you a clue. Also, have you had any adrenal testing?

>

> check your outer arms and front of thighs...can you pinch up any

> skin? or is it very thickened?

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

look on the bright side...

that thick mucin stuff we have there keeps those older lady arm " wings "

from swinging so low and the skin on our legs from sagging toward our

knees.

right?

:-)

cindi

>

> >

> i also have been unable to pinch the skin of my upper arms or thighs

> for decades --even tho i never had weight problems (till recently

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone

I went to my doctor today....and my blood pressure was better than i thought it would be...It was 120/78....my pulse was 65....not quite what it should be, but sure was better than the 42 it was about this time two years ago.

The doc ran blood work....comprenhensive panel, CBC with diff,Sed rate, ANA, Rheumatoid Factor T4 Free,TSH Third Generation and cortisol....she said she will start with those and go from there. I also gave her several posts from the site and told her that if she was interested, AND HAD time....shes got a 5 and a 3 year old, she should read them....

What is TSH third generation and ANA ?

CandyWondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindi: Thanks for the explanation. I don't think this is what I have. I have so much bloating under my armpits, upper abdomen and upper legs. And my face is so full. It appears to me that there is something going on besides typical weight gain. I am already on DHEA for my adrenals. I tried the HC but had some side effects so I stopped taking it. I have been on Armour since last month. I was on Levothyroxine before that. My Free T 3 and Free T 4 are good right now. cindi22595 wrote: Myxedema is the swelling of the skin and other tissues - an edema - associated with hypothyroidism. It is the accumulation of mucoproteins in tissue fluid. makes you thick and puffy. it's especially noticeable around the eyes and cheeks (nasal folds)...even lips get plumper...tongue bigger. My "thyroid dermopathy" was so bad that even my fingers and toes were quite swollen. strange thing was -i didn't even realize it until they went back to normal. i'd say ordinarily it doesn't happen unless hypothyroidism is prolonged, but some folks do have myxedema as a primary symptom. i did. What i noticed around the 18th month was a 10 lb. weight loss within about 2 weeks. it was obvious it was basically a release of fluid/mucin from my tissues as even my legs

felt different. On HC, I believe my thyroid hormone was able to work better, plus better antibody suppression most likely. And I just improved even more. HC can be good for the skin issues of hypo I believe. To know if this is just myxedema (which is what hypothyroidism is called in some of the medical literature)....I think your Free levels might give you a clue. Also, have you had any adrenal testing? check your outer arms and front of thighs...can you pinch up any skin? or is it very thickened? cindi> >> > The way I can tell I have water

retention, is i can not only see > it, but > > feel it. i feel like my skin in my arms, my face, my legs, my > abdomen, are > > stretched to the limits. i get bags under my eyes, and this is > something I can > > see...i can see the swelling in my ankle, especially the left one, > and my foot > > actually overlaps the top of my shoe...its disgusting> > Candy> > > > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists > on family > > favorites at AOL Food. > > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)> >>

[Guest guest]

have you tested cortisol?

this almost sounds like pseudo-cushings....

do you have a " fat pad " at the back of your neck?

cindi

>

> Hi Cindi:

>

> Thanks for the explanation. I don't think this is what I have. I

have so much bloating under my armpits, upper abdomen and upper legs.

And my face is so full. It appears to me that there is something going

on besides typical weight gain.

[Guest guest]

No, I have not tested cortisol, and I don't have a fat pad at the back of my neck. I don't know what cushings is. I will have to look into it. Thanks for helping me solve this mystery Cindi. cindi22595 wrote: have you tested cortisol? this almost sounds like pseudo-cushings....do you have a "fat pad" at the back of your neck?cindi>> Hi Cindi:> > Thanks for the explanation. I don't think this is what I have. I have so much bloating under my armpits, upper abdomen and upper legs. And my face is so full. It appears to me that there is something going on besides typical weight gain.

[Guest guest]

i think TSH 3rd generation is just the most sensitive TSH test...and

ANA is an antibody test...stands for antinuclear antibody....these

antibodies are present in several autoimmune illnesses.

cindi

>

> >

> What is TSH third generation and ANA ?

> Candy

>

>

[Guest guest]

The things I learn about here! I cannot pinch skin on my upper arms or

thighs or abdomen either. Don't ever remember being able to do so. I

have given sub Q fluids and shots to pets for years now, and have often

wondered how in the heck a subQ fluid or injection is done on a human,

since no skin tent can be pinched up. HAH! Now I know how some people

can do subQ shots on themselves---they CAN pinch up skin.

I had NO idea, LOL.

sol

ms_sisyphus_00 wrote:

> i also have been unable to pinch the skin of my upper arms or thighs

> for decades --even tho i never had weight problems (till recently

>

> i have just finally titrated off the last of my sytnrhodi and onto

> all-armour in january, and upping/fine tuning my armour dosage...

>

> And i can just 2 weeks ago! start pinching the skin in my upper arm!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don’t understand what “pinching up skin” is—does

it mean that you really can’t pinch yourself—or is this not having “loose

skin”—Like a dog has loose skin on the back of his neck—My upper

thighs and upper arms are very firm—but not in a muscular way.

I have always felt like a bloated blob but doctors have never

said it had anything to do with my throid—I am just shocked to hear that

all of this could be related.

I was on 25 mcg synthroid for years, then 50 mcg—no relief

from symptoms. I went on armour about a month ago. I take 60mg 2x a

day. For the first time in years I sweated while exercising—

Has everyone using armour had success with losing this water weight?

P.S. How does one know if Idoral or DHEA are not

working? Do you know right away? What are symptoms of it not

working or making you feel worse?

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of sol

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:51 AM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Re: Myxedema?

The things I learn about here! I cannot pinch

skin on my upper arms or

thighs or abdomen either. Don't ever remember being able to do so. I

have given sub Q fluids and shots to pets for years now, and have often

wondered how in the heck a subQ fluid or injection is done on a human,

since no skin tent can be pinched up. HAH! Now I know how some people

can do subQ shots on themselves---they CAN pinch up skin.

I had NO idea, LOL.

sol

ms_sisyphus_00 wrote:

> i also have been unable to pinch the skin of my upper arms or thighs

> for decades --even tho i never had weight problems (till recently

>

> i have just finally titrated off the last of my sytnrhodi and onto

> all-armour in january, and upping/fine tuning my armour dosage...

>

> And i can just 2 weeks ago! start pinching the skin in my upper arm!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I barely sweat while working out - even on a 7 incline on the treadmill I barely do.....To: Thyroiditis From: marycarey@...Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:59:12 -0400Subject: RE: Re: Myxedema?

I don’t understand what “pinching up skin” is—does

it mean that you really can’t pinch yourself—or is this not having “loose

skin”—Like a dog has loose skin on the back of his neck—My upper

thighs and upper arms are very firm—but not in a muscular way.

I have always felt like a bloated blob but doctors have never

said it had anything to do with my throid—I am just shocked to hear that

all of this could be related.

I was on 25 mcg synthroid for years, then 50 mcg—no relief

from symptoms. I went on armour about a month ago. I take 60mg 2x a

day. For the first time in years I sweated while exercising—

Has everyone using armour had success with losing this water weight?

P.S. How does one know if Idoral or DHEA are not

working? Do you know right away? What are symptoms of it not

working or making you feel worse?

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of sol

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:51 AM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Re: Myxedema?

The things I learn about here! I cannot pinch

skin on my upper arms or

thighs or abdomen either. Don't ever remember being able to do so. I

have given sub Q fluids and shots to pets for years now, and have often

wondered how in the heck a subQ fluid or injection is done on a human,

since no skin tent can be pinched up. HAH! Now I know how some people

can do subQ shots on themselves---they CAN pinch up skin.

I had NO idea, LOL.

sol

ms_sisyphus_00 wrote:

> i also have been unable to pinch the skin of my upper arms or thighs

> for decades --even tho i never had weight problems (till recently

>

> i have just finally titrated off the last of my sytnrhodi and onto

> all-armour in january, and upping/fine tuning my armour dosage...

>

> And i can just 2 weeks ago! start pinching the skin in my upper arm!!!

>

>

E-mail for the greater good. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.

[Guest guest]

get hubby or a friend to pinch the skin on their outer arm...and

you'll see the difference.

some of us hypos...were hypo long enough..to collect mucin in that

outer arm area/outer thigh tissue...and it just doesn't go away

easily....

when trying to pinch the skin there...we can't..the skin is all

attached to the underlying tissue quite firmly....

even though i was/sorta am on the thinner side...these areas feel

like blubber to me.

cindi

>

> I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it mean that you

really

> can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose skin " -Like a dog

has loose

> skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are very

> firm-but not in a muscular way.

>

[Guest guest]

What helps it go away? And does it take years or months to go

away? Mine has been like that for my entire adult life—at least 20 years.

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of cindi22595

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:15 AM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Myxedema?

get hubby or a friend to pinch the skin on

their outer arm...and

you'll see the difference.

some of us hypos...were hypo long enough..to collect mucin in that

outer arm area/outer thigh tissue...and it just doesn't go away

easily....

when trying to pinch the skin there...we can't..the skin is all

attached to the underlying tissue quite firmly....

even though i was/sorta am on the thinner side...these areas feel

like blubber to me.

cindi

>

> I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it mean that

you

really

> can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose skin " -Like a

dog

has loose

> skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are very

> firm-but not in a muscular way.

>

[Guest guest]

This is another hypothyroid symptom? I used to sweat like a pig at the

least exertion, or even if no exertion. Now I mostly sweat in hot

flashes, LOL.

But it is funny, my mother never sweated, even in her armpits. No matter

how hard whe was working, or how hot the weather was, she just didn't sweat.

sol

K a r e n H wrote:

> , I barely sweat while working out - even on a 7 incline on the

> treadmill I barely do.....

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well I think it has to do with the thyroid controlling your body

temperature, and your metabolism. Hypo patients tend to have lower than normal

body temperatures. I know on the Natural thyroid hormone board they talk about

dosing according to body temperature.

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of sol

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:59 AM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Re: Myxedema?

This is another hypothyroid symptom? I used to sweat like a pig at the

least exertion, or even if no exertion. Now I mostly sweat in hot

flashes, LOL.

But it is funny, my mother never sweated, even in her armpits. No matter

how hard whe was working, or how hot the weather was, she just didn't sweat.

sol

K a r e n H wrote:

> , I barely sweat while working out - even on a 7 incline on the

> treadmill I barely do.....

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

honestly, i'm not sure it ever does goe away completely once it has

formed there.

although i was undiagnosed hypo for 15-25 years...I've been on Armour

since 2004 and HC since last 2006....and although I'd say mine is

better....it's not at all " normal " comparatively speaking.

cindi

> >

> > I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it mean that

you

> really

> > can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose skin " -Like a

dog

> has loose

> > skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are

very

> > firm-but not in a muscular way.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindi—By “undiagnosed hyper” do you mean that there is a

blood test from 15-25 years ago that shows you were hyper—or do you feel

like you were undiagnosed all those years? I ask that because I feel like

I have had some of these symptoms since I was 11 but have no way of knowing.

Can someone get Hashi’s that young?

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of cindi22595

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:12 PM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Myxedema?

honestly, i'm not sure it ever does goe away

completely once it has

formed there.

although i was undiagnosed hypo for 15-25 years...I've been on Armour

since 2004 and HC since last 2006....and although I'd say mine is

better....it's not at all " normal " comparatively speaking.

cindi

> >

> > I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it mean

that

you

> really

> > can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose

skin " -Like a

dog

> has loose

> > skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are

very

> > firm-but not in a muscular way.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

hypo.

my full story here:

http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/deardoctor.htm

Although I started asking for thyroid tests when I was 33 (15 years

before diagnosis), I've only been able to track copies of thyroid

labs back to 1994 (ten years before diagnosis) and that had a TSH of

2. something and Total T4 right at the bottom of the range. no T3

tested.

Just a year or two prior to that(early 90s), I did have facial

biopsies that indicated autoimmune skin changes/hypothyroidism

(lymphoytic infiltration, etc.)...which would be consistent with my

symptoms having gotten worse around that time. the dermatologist did

not catch it. I'm not sure if i had primary myxedema as a primary

hypo symptom or i had just been hypo enough to be as myxedematous as

i was back then in the 90s.

I also have since been determined to have TSH receptor

antibodies...obviously the blocking kind predominated since my TSH

never rose much at all...it was only 6 when diagnosed....and I'm

sorta amazed it even made it to that knowing what i know now. My TSH

was undetectable about a year ago when my Frees dropped fairly

signifantly after a hospitalization and IV steroids. so TSH just is

very iffy in autoimmune thyroid disease.

so to answer your question....I can pretty well " prove " the

autoimune/hypo via some pathology reports that go back to the early

90s...and the 1994 thyroid test I have doesn't look so good. I just

recently wrote another medical provider from the late 80s to see what

labs they had as i remember having a high white cell count several

times when I wasn't really there for being sick but just having

physical/blood work. The hashi's at work....

I think Hashi's often shows up around puberty (hormonal change

trigger) and just doesn't worsen significantly for many until some

major stress/trauma or childbirth perhaps.

so although i first had some of the classic symptoms at age

23...yea..i'm sure it was present before then.

cindi

> > >

> > > I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it mean that

> you

> > really

> > > can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose skin " -Like a

> dog

> > has loose

> > > skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are

> very

> > > firm-but not in a muscular way.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow—

I have always had a white blood cell count—how is that related

to Hashi’s?

From:

Thyroiditis [mailto:Thyroiditis ] On Behalf

Of cindi22595

Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:43 PM

To: Thyroiditis

Subject: Re: Myxedema?

hypo.

my full story here:

http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/deardoctor.htm

Although I started asking for thyroid tests when I was 33 (15 years

before diagnosis), I've only been able to track copies of thyroid

labs back to 1994 (ten years before diagnosis) and that had a TSH of

2. something and Total T4 right at the bottom of the range. no T3

tested.

Just a year or two prior to that(early 90s), I did have facial

biopsies that indicated autoimmune skin changes/hypothyroidism

(lymphoytic infiltration, etc.)...which would be consistent with my

symptoms having gotten worse around that time. the dermatologist did

not catch it. I'm not sure if i had primary myxedema as a primary

hypo symptom or i had just been hypo enough to be as myxedematous as

i was back then in the 90s.

I also have since been determined to have TSH receptor

antibodies...obviously the blocking kind predominated since my TSH

never rose much at all...it was only 6 when diagnosed....and I'm

sorta amazed it even made it to that knowing what i know now. My TSH

was undetectable about a year ago when my Frees dropped fairly

signifantly after a hospitalization and IV steroids. so TSH just is

very iffy in autoimmune thyroid disease.

so to answer your question....I can pretty well " prove " the

autoimune/hypo via some pathology reports that go back to the early

90s...and the 1994 thyroid test I have doesn't look so good. I just

recently wrote another medical provider from the late 80s to see what

labs they had as i remember having a high white cell count several

times when I wasn't really there for being sick but just having

physical/blood work. The hashi's at work....

I think Hashi's often shows up around puberty (hormonal change

trigger) and just doesn't worsen significantly for many until some

major stress/trauma or childbirth perhaps.

so although i first had some of the classic symptoms at age

23...yea..i'm sure it was present before then.

cindi

> > >

> > > I don't understand what " pinching up skin " is-does it

mean that

> you

> > really

> > > can't pinch yourself-or is this not having " loose

skin " -Like a

> dog

> > has loose

> > > skin on the back of his neck-My upper thighs and upper arms are

> very

> > > firm-but not in a muscular way.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I really don't know specifically...other than i've seen lots of women

on thyroid forums report having elevated WBC.

Bt white blood cells...are associated with the immmune system...so

maybe something is in overdrive there when it's elevated...

and also - it is " lymphocytes " (a type of white blood cell) that move

into the thyroid gland in hashi's - and along with the antibodies -

slowly destroy the gland.

So just speculating...is the elevated WBC an indicator of thyroid

damage going on?

anyone know....or have comments on this WBC correlation?

cindi

>

> >

>

>

> I have always had a white blood cell count-how is that related to

Hashi's?

>