Re: Iodine question

June 18, 2008

Heidi,

Well, that is the million dollar question.

High dose iodine proponents seem to believe that any adverse symptoms

from ingesting iodine are always due to bromide 'detox'. I don't buy it.

I tried the high dose iodine and it was after that that I was Dx with

hashi's. I don't know for sure if it triggered it, but I'm

suspicious, since studies have shown that iodine can trigger it. The

iodine made me very hyper and it took quite awhile after stopping it

to feel normal again.

Also, if in fact 'everyone' is toxic with bromide, then it would

follow that not everyone has the same exact amount in their bodies.

And that some people who eat very healthy and try to avoid toxic

substances would have much lower amounts, due to avoidance but also

due to their body's ability to detoxify better than most.

So believing that, then at what point can we be sure that any adverse

symptoms from iodine ingestion are truly 'bromide detox' or just plain

iodine toxicity?

There is meager scientific evidence that adverse reactions to iodine

are due to bromide toxicity, but ample evidence that excess iodine

causes both hypothyroidism and hashi's, and frequently exacerbates

hashi conditions.

Be very careful of the cookie cutter advice given on iodine groups.

They refuse to acknowledge any downside to iodine use and have

censored and banned people who try to caution people with hashi's. As

long as you get your information from many reputable sources (not

websites selling iodine products) including PubMed and others, you

will be informed on both sides of the issues and be able to make a

knowedgeable choice for you.

>

> Bromide detox symptoms and Hypo-T symptoms have such a *huge* overlap.

>

> Does anyone know how can we determine if our symptoms are the iodine

> aggravating our

> Hashi's (something I really don't want to do) or if we are detoxing

> bromide (something I would love to do if I need it)?

>

> Also, is there a test for determining bromide levels in our body?

>

> Thanks for any help you can give!!

>

> Heidi

>

June 18, 2008

found this:

No specific test for bromine is available; however, detection of

elevated bromide levels in serum (reference level is 50-100 mg/L) might

indicate that an exposure has occurred.

have you googled " bromide poisoning? " ....sounds like we know it if we

have it..

and a recent iodism statement from the iodine docs:

http://www.healthsalon.org/276/iodine-for-greatest-mental-and-physical-

health-dr-guy-abraham-md-dr-jorge-d-flechas-md/

Regarding the potential adverse effects of I supplementation at the

levels used in the present study, they are threefold: iodism, I-induced

hyperthyroidism (IIH) and I-induced goiter (IIG). Iodism is dose-

related and the symptoms are: unpleasant brassy taste, increased

salivation, coryza, sneezing, and headache originating in frontal

sinuses. Skin lesions are mildly acneiform and distributed in the

seborrheic areas (11,43). Those symptoms disappear spontaneously within

a few days after stopping the administration of I. As of this writing,

no iodism and for that matter, no side effect has been reported in more

than 150 subjects who underwent I supplementation at 12.5 mg/day. It

has been suggested 100 years ago that iodism may be due to small

amounts of bromine contaminant in the iodine preparations and trace

amount of iodate and iodic acid in the iodide solutions (43). With

greater purity of USP grade materials now available, iodism may no

longer be a problem at the level of I used in the present study.

cindi

>

> Bromide detox symptoms and Hypo-T symptoms have such a *huge* overlap.

>

> Does anyone know how can we determine if our symptoms are the iodine

> aggravating our

> Hashi's (something I really don't want to do) or if we are detoxing

> bromide (something I would love to do if I need it)?

>

> Also, is there a test for determining bromide levels in our body?

June 18, 2008

oops..should have put " bromism " ....

again..sounds like we know it if we have too much:

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/library/randrep/pb_paper/mr1018.2.chap10.htm

l

cindi

>> have you googled " bromide poisoning? " ....sounds like we know it if

we

> have it..

June 19, 2008

Hi --

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm not sure why the iodine

protocol is so attractive, but it is. I am however very anxious about

trying it and making myself worse. (duh!) I tried it for a while at

low levels, and felt some relief of hypo symptoms, but also many

" detox " symptoms, so lacking more definitive pro-iodine studies I stopped.

Do you do any iodine supplementation-- ie-- rda in a multi or seaweed etc?

Heidi

-- In Thyroiditis , " b53cjf " wrote:

>

> Heidi,

> Well, that is the million dollar question.

>

> High dose iodine proponents seem to believe that any adverse symptoms

> from ingesting iodine are always due to bromide 'detox'. I don't

buy it.

>

> I tried the high dose iodine and it was after that that I was Dx with

> hashi's. I don't know for sure if it triggered it, but I'm

> suspicious, since studies have shown that iodine can trigger it. The

> iodine made me very hyper and it took quite awhile after stopping it

> to feel normal again.

>

> Also, if in fact 'everyone' is toxic with bromide, then it would

> follow that not everyone has the same exact amount in their bodies.

> And that some people who eat very healthy and try to avoid toxic

> substances would have much lower amounts, due to avoidance but also

> due to their body's ability to detoxify better than most.

>

> So believing that, then at what point can we be sure that any adverse

> symptoms from iodine ingestion are truly 'bromide detox' or just plain

> iodine toxicity?

>

> There is meager scientific evidence that adverse reactions to iodine

> are due to bromide toxicity, but ample evidence that excess iodine

> causes both hypothyroidism and hashi's, and frequently exacerbates

> hashi conditions.

>

> Be very careful of the cookie cutter advice given on iodine groups.

> They refuse to acknowledge any downside to iodine use and have

> censored and banned people who try to caution people with hashi's. As

> long as you get your information from many reputable sources (not

> websites selling iodine products) including PubMed and others, you

> will be informed on both sides of the issues and be able to make a

> knowedgeable choice for you.

>

June 19, 2008

Thanks for the link, Cindi. I wish these guys (the iodine docs) would

submit their work to some peer review.I haven't seen any-- is there?

Would really help w/ their message. Do you take iodoral?

Heidi

>

> found this:

> No specific test for bromine is available; however, detection of

> elevated bromide levels in serum (reference level is 50-100 mg/L) might

> indicate that an exposure has occurred.

>

> have you googled " bromide poisoning? " ....sounds like we know it if we

> have it..

>

> and a recent iodism statement from the iodine docs:

>

> http://www.healthsalon.org/276/iodine-for-greatest-mental-and-physical-

> health-dr-guy-abraham-md-dr-jorge-d-flechas-md/

>

> Regarding the potential adverse effects of I supplementation at the

> levels used in the present study, they are threefold: iodism, I-induced

> hyperthyroidism (IIH) and I-induced goiter (IIG). Iodism is dose-

> related and the symptoms are: unpleasant brassy taste, increased

> salivation, coryza, sneezing, and headache originating in frontal

> sinuses. Skin lesions are mildly acneiform and distributed in the

> seborrheic areas (11,43). Those symptoms disappear spontaneously within

> a few days after stopping the administration of I. As of this writing,

> no iodism and for that matter, no side effect has been reported in more

> than 150 subjects who underwent I supplementation at 12.5 mg/day. It

> has been suggested 100 years ago that iodism may be due to small

> amounts of bromine contaminant in the iodine preparations and trace

> amount of iodate and iodic acid in the iodide solutions (43). With

> greater purity of USP grade materials now available, iodism may no

> longer be a problem at the level of I used in the present study.

>

> cindi

>

June 19, 2008

no peer review that i know of...

occassionally, i will use a drop of lugol's in water... 6.25 mg.

but we do get iodine from dietary sources....

and i'm well managed on my Hashimoto's (with Armour)...and don't see

any point in upsetting the apple cart by daily supplementation of

iodine.

cindi

>

> Thanks for the link, Cindi. I wish these guys (the iodine docs) would

> submit their work to some peer review.I haven't seen any-- is there?

> Would really help w/ their message. Do you take iodoral?

June 19, 2008

Hi,

As you can see I am not . I do not have any hyper symptoms to

constantly monitor like some others here do including . I am

totally HypOO without any TSH receptor ab's to swing me hyper.

I take 3/4 of an Iodoral tablet; one tablet has 5 mg iodine and 7.5

mg iodide. So I take roughly 3.75 mg of iodine and 5.625 mg of

iodide a day even though it's controversial. All I know is that it

has helped me some as my progesterone has improved. I believe that

it must be individualized just like a thyroid med must be for each

patient. I don't think anyone with Hashi's could handle or benefit

from 50 mg of Iodoral a day. I think if a small amount works for you

go for it and if it doesn't don't use it.

It's also important to take into account that many Hashi patients

also need to monitor their selenium and zinc also among other things

like iron/ferritin, vitamin D, B-12 etc.

HTH,

Bj

> >

> > Heidi,

> > Well, that is the million dollar question.

> >

> > High dose iodine proponents seem to believe that any adverse

symptoms

> > from ingesting iodine are always due to bromide 'detox'. I don't

> buy it.

> >

> > I tried the high dose iodine and it was after that that I was Dx

with

> > hashi's. I don't know for sure if it triggered it, but I'm

> > suspicious, since studies have shown that iodine can trigger it.

The

> > iodine made me very hyper and it took quite awhile after stopping

it

> > to feel normal again.

> >

> > Also, if in fact 'everyone' is toxic with bromide, then it would

> > follow that not everyone has the same exact amount in their

bodies.

> > And that some people who eat very healthy and try to avoid toxic

> > substances would have much lower amounts, due to avoidance but

also

> > due to their body's ability to detoxify better than most.

> >

> > So believing that, then at what point can we be sure that any

adverse

> > symptoms from iodine ingestion are truly 'bromide detox' or just

plain

> > iodine toxicity?

> >

> > There is meager scientific evidence that adverse reactions to

iodine

> > are due to bromide toxicity, but ample evidence that excess iodine

> > causes both hypothyroidism and hashi's, and frequently exacerbates

> > hashi conditions.

> >

> > Be very careful of the cookie cutter advice given on iodine

groups.

> > They refuse to acknowledge any downside to iodine use and have

> > censored and banned people who try to caution people with

hashi's. As

> > long as you get your information from many reputable sources (not

> > websites selling iodine products) including PubMed and others, you

> > will be informed on both sides of the issues and be able to make a

> > knowedgeable choice for you.

> >

>

June 20, 2008

Hi Bj

Thanks for your help. I have had D(low, but improving) and B12 (good)

tested and am supplementing with those you suggested and as well as

others.

My progesterone levels *are* low....so. That's interesting that the

3/4 tab has helped you. How are you able to cut that? I'd been taking

half tabs because it's so easy to break on the score. It's hard for me

to imagine getting it into 3/4 of a tab. Are you using any topical

hormone creams as well? Or adrenal supports?

I'm afraid your first paragraph's not totally clear to me. Could you

explain a little more? How would I know if I had any TSH receptor

ab's? Which lab reading would that be? I've never had any hyper type

labs (throughout years of testing), altho sometimes I do feel

hyper...which does confuse me.... I'm still very much in the learning

stages, so any links or book recommendations are appreciated. Thank you!

Heidi

>

> Hi,

>

> As you can see I am not . I do not have any hyper symptoms to

> constantly monitor like some others here do including . I am

> totally HypOO without any TSH receptor ab's to swing me hyper.

>

> I take 3/4 of an Iodoral tablet; one tablet has 5 mg iodine and 7.5

> mg iodide. So I take roughly 3.75 mg of iodine and 5.625 mg of

> iodide a day even though it's controversial. All I know is that it

> has helped me some as my progesterone has improved. I believe that

> it must be individualized just like a thyroid med must be for each

> patient. I don't think anyone with Hashi's could handle or benefit

> from 50 mg of Iodoral a day. I think if a small amount works for you

> go for it and if it doesn't don't use it.

>

June 20, 2008

Hi all,

Too much iodine of any type (natural or altered) can cause big problems in those who have the genetics to develop thyroid disease. And adding certain quantities of iodine to an already existing thyroid problem can cause the disease to progress further. (see below).

Even natural, direct-from-the-ocean seaweed itself can cause major issues, so it's not just certain types. But I recently found this article that mentions how drastic the iodine content in seaweed can vary:

"...Korea, and Japan have over 60 species of seaweed. Food preparation can effect iodine content of seaweed. Nori the flat sheets used for sushi has a small amount of iodine, compared to Miso soup. Kelp flavored stock is used to make miso soup. The soup then has over 1000 mcgs of iodine! The cooking in water releases the iodine into the broth.This level of iodine can cause progression of thyroid disease in susceptable thyroid patients. All seaweeds are not equal in causing problems. Ground kelp has 8000 mcg/gram, Kelp 2500, Dulse 72, and Nori has 16. Young seaweed, and floating seaweed have higher iodine than sundried seaweed.

Review the article by Braverman before you decide what type of seaweed you should eat. Thyroid vol.14 number 10 2004, page 836-841.

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2004.14.836

Here's more about seaweed iodine content from the article cited above, if anyone is interested:

From: "Thyroid"

Variability of Iodine Content in Common Commercially Available Edible Seaweeds.

Dietary seaweeds, common in Asia and in Asian restaurants, have become established as part of popular international cuisine. To understand the possibility for iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction better, we collected samples of the most common dietary seaweeds available from commercial sources in the United States, as well as harvester-provided samples from Canada, Tasmania, and Namibia.

Altogether, 12 different species of seaweeds were analyzed for iodine content, and found to range from 16 µg/g (±2) in nori (Porphyra tenera) to over 8165 ± 373 µg/g in one sample of processed kelp granules (a salt substitute) made from Laminaria digitata. We explored variation in preharvest conditions in a small study of two Namibian kelps (Laminaria pallida and Ecklonia maxima), and found that iodine content was lowest in sun-bleached blades (514 ± 42 µg/g), and highest amount in freshly cut juvenile blades (6571 ± 715 µg/g).

Iodine is water-soluble in cooking and may vaporize in humid storage conditions, making average iodine content of prepared foods difficult to estimate. It is possible some Asian seaweed dishes may exceed the tolerable upper iodine intake level of 1100 µg/d.

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June 23, 2008

Do most people here avoid even the RDA of iodine found in a multi

vitamin? What about iodine containing foods? Just wondering if there's

a general feeling about it.

Ty!

Heidi

>

> Hi all,

>

> Too much iodine of any type (natural or altered) can cause big

problems in those who have the genetics to develop thyroid disease.

And adding certain quantities of iodine to an already existing thyroid

problem can cause the disease to progress further. (see below).

>

> Even natural, direct-from-the-ocean seaweed itself can cause major

issues, so it's not just certain types. But I recently found this

article that mentions how drastic the iodine content in seaweed can vary:

>

June 23, 2008

Hi Heidi,

I'm not finding that the iodine in the multi is a problem. The

studies I've read are showing that iodine is more likely to be a

problem if iron, zinc, and selenium are deficient. Likewise,

increasing selenium without enough iodine also causes problems.

Recently I have been doing the iThyroid protocol for hypos, with the

extra zinc, iron, and selenium (iron because ferritin was low and I

had symptoms) along with some extra B1 (very important) and other

things. I'm finding I can now tolerate a drop of Iosol once or twice

a week without problems. But I'm being very careful, as I did test

positive for TSI antibodies (Grave's) so there's no way I would ever

use the higher doses advocated by some. That would be asking for trouble.

>

> Do most people here avoid even the RDA of iodine found in a multi

> vitamin? What about iodine containing foods? Just wondering if there's

> a general feeling about it.

>

> Ty!

> Heidi

>

June 24, 2008

Val,

Please note that I (intentionally) mentioned that iodine is not

beneficial to everyone, especially those who have a tendency to be on

the hypEr side or have TSH receptor antibodies - Graves Disease.

Also, some people are oversensitive to iodine, particularly in SSKI

and topical skin preparations and iodine wouldn't be a wise choice

for them.

However, for the many other people it could be beneficial to check

out the obvious data on iodine. For example, the American average

daily iodine intake is 24 mcg and the Japanese average of about 45

mg, almost 200 times as much. Seeing how the breasts also need

iodine, Japanese women have one of the lowest rates of breast cancer

while American women have the highest. When American Japanese women

changed their diets to the modern American diet, their rates of

breast cancer spread high, too.

Even though there is no direct link to iodine and breast cancer

rates, I believe using more iodine like the Japanese do is not toxic

for the majority of people who supplement or eat foods with iodine.

I think it is an individual choice, some people may not be able to

handle that high a dose, but if a lower dose is helpful it should be

used. Iodine isn't an all or nothing mineral.

Also, I find it informative that supplementing with iodine has shown

to:

Reverse fibrocystic disease

Reduce insulin in diabetic patients

Reduce thyroid meds in HypOthyroid patients

Symptoms of fibromyalgia resolve

Migraine headaches decease and even stop

As for me personally, like I mentioned before, my Progesterone has

come up without also increasing my normal Estrogen or lowering my low

DHEA. A few weeks after starting the iodine I was also able to lower

my Armour dose. My three times a week migraines also stopped and so

did my horrible insomnia.

I don't think there is a magic dosage intake, it's very much depends

on each individual. Another thing to remember is that fluoride and

other toxic chemicals like those used to prolong freshness of fresh

fruit and veggies block iodine being absorbed by the thyroid gland.

Therefore, iodine is essential. Some scientists believe that

everyone should increase their iodine intake by threefold of the RDA

because of all the iodine-blocking toxins in food now days.

I hope to see more studies on iodine. It's interesting that iodine

deficiency mimics thyroid deficiency. Here's an interesting article:

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no4/millerd.pdf

BTW, I don't eat seaweed and probably a lot of others don't either,

but I could be wrong, so thanks for the caution and info on seaweed

and iodine.

Bj

>

> Hi all,

>

> Too much iodine of any type (natural or altered) can cause big

problems in those who have the genetics to develop thyroid disease.

And adding certain quantities of iodine to an already existing

thyroid problem can cause the disease to progress further. (see

below).

>

> Even natural, direct-from-the-ocean seaweed itself can cause major

issues, so it's not just certain types. But I recently found this

article that mentions how drastic the iodine content in seaweed can

vary:

>

> " ...Korea, and Japan have over 60 species of seaweed. Food

preparation can effect iodine content of seaweed. Nori the flat

sheets used for sushi has a small amount of iodine, compared to Miso

soup. Kelp flavored stock is used to make miso soup. The soup then

has over 1000 mcgs of iodine! The cooking in water releases the

iodine into the broth.This level of iodine can cause progression of

thyroid disease in susceptable thyroid patients. All seaweeds are not

equal in causing problems. Ground kelp has 8000 mcg/gram, Kelp 2500,

Dulse 72, and Nori has 16. Young seaweed, and floating seaweed have

higher iodine than sundried seaweed.

> Review the article by Braverman before you decide what type of

seaweed you should eat. Thyroid vol.14 number 10 2004, page 836-841.

>

> http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2004.14.836

>

> Here's more about seaweed iodine content from the

article cited above, if anyone is interested:

>

> From: " Thyroid "

>

> Variability of Iodine Content in Common Commercially Available

Edible Seaweeds.

>

> Dietary seaweeds, common in Asia and in Asian restaurants, have

become established as part of popular international cuisine. To

understand the possibility for iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction

better, we collected samples of the most common dietary seaweeds

available from commercial sources in the United States, as well as

harvester-provided samples from Canada, Tasmania, and Namibia.

>

> Altogether, 12 different species of seaweeds were analyzed for

iodine content, and found to range from 16 µg/g (±2) in nori

(Porphyra tenera) to over 8165 ± 373 µg/g in one sample of processed

kelp granules (a salt substitute) made from Laminaria digitata. We

explored variation in preharvest conditions in a small study of two

Namibian kelps (Laminaria pallida and Ecklonia maxima), and found

that iodine content was lowest in sun-bleached blades (514 ± 42

µg/g), and highest amount in freshly cut juvenile blades (6571 ± 715

µg/g).

>

> Iodine is water-soluble in cooking and may vaporize in humid

storage conditions, making average iodine content of prepared foods

difficult to estimate. It is possible some Asian seaweed dishes may

exceed the tolerable upper iodine intake level of 1100 µg/d.

>

June 24, 2008

Hi Heidi,

I take HC (Cortef) for my fatigued Adrenals. I have a device my

hubby made especially that cuts the Iodoral pills. I took prometrium

under close doctor supervision and it went up to normal but also sent

my Estrogen down so I then took Estrogen drops and my Progesterone

went back down, my Estrogen stayed low normal but my DHEA dumped

along with Testosterone. The iodine has helped the Progesterone and

the DHEA 10 mg daily is somewhat helping my DHEA and Testosterone.

My doc thinks if he gives me testosterone it will increase the

Estrogen and we'll be back to square one again so I am patiently

pursuing the iodine which seems to be working.

The way to find out if you have TSH receptor antibodies is to have a

TSI and/or TBII test(s). There are stimulating (TSI) and blocking

and binding (TBII) receptors. They are normally thought of as Graves

Ab's, but some people that are HypO (Hashi's) also have them just

like a small percentage of Grave's patients have Hashi Ab's

(TPO/TG). If a Hashi person has them they usually also have a low

TSH as the pituitary gland can't decipher between TSH and TSH

receptors.

I don't have any TSH receptor ab's, but my daughter has a high level

plus the TPO/TG ab's and the doc calls her his GH (Graves/Hashi)

girl. It is no fun and very hard to treat much less properly. I

think it's much worse than having Hashi's or Graves' alone. Anyway

if one has the TSH receptor ab's s/he is at risk of developing TED -

Thyroid Eye Disease. You can get rid of the TSH receptor ab's by

taking an anti-thyroid drug like PTU. The trick is finding a doc who

will prescribe both an ATD and a thyroid replacement hormone; this is

known as block and replace treatment. There is no known way to rid

the body of the TPO and TG ab's. Selenium, eating a very healthy

diet, other minerals like zinc and iron etc. helps in a lot of Hashi

folks.

HTH, Bj

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > As you can see I am not . I do not have any hyper symptoms

to

> > constantly monitor like some others here do including . I

am

> > totally HypOO without any TSH receptor ab's to swing me hyper.

> >

> > I take 3/4 of an Iodoral tablet; one tablet has 5 mg iodine and

7.5

> > mg iodide. So I take roughly 3.75 mg of iodine and 5.625 mg of

> > iodide a day even though it's controversial. All I know is that

it

> > has helped me some as my progesterone has improved. I believe

that

> > it must be individualized just like a thyroid med must be for

each

> > patient. I don't think anyone with Hashi's could handle or

benefit

> > from 50 mg of Iodoral a day. I think if a small amount works for

you

> > go for it and if it doesn't don't use it.

> >

>

June 25, 2008

Probably important to note that this author (on pg 107, right

column)....does make a distinction " those without thyroid disease " ....

i would say that it's not necessarily that iodine deficiency " mimics "

hypothyroidsim - but rather that for some folks, it is actually

causing it...

but that those with autoimmune thyroid disease are a different

category entirely when it comes to iodine...and caution is

needed....proceed slowly....as there is the risk of worsening the

condition. And I believe that anyone with hypo deserves to have

testing to find out if it is autoimmune in origin, so that they are

fully informed.

I note that even the iodine docs point out that goiter or

hypothyroidsim can result in certain categories of folks:

http://www.healthsalon.org/276/iodine-for-greatest-mental-and-

physical-health-dr-guy-abraham-md-dr-jorge-d-flechas-md/

" However, in patients with underlying thyroid disorders, IIG (iodine

induced goiter) with hypothyroidism could be induced, mainly by I-

containing drugs. Predisposing factors to I-induced hypothyroidism

are: treated Graves' disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, post-partum

lymphocytic thyroiditis, subacute painful thyroiditis, and lobectomy

for benign nodules

What I'd like to know is: if we're taking Armour, aren't we getting

iodine?

cindi

>

> I hope to see more studies on iodine. It's interesting that iodine

> deficiency mimics thyroid deficiency. Here's an interesting

article:

> http://www.jpands.org/vol11no4/millerd.pdf

June 25, 2008

I am confused now, I went to the Dr yesturday and she started me on i-thyroid (iodine) since I am low and haveing a reaction to the Armor Thyroid.This is all so new and confusing. Sonya - Anchorage, Alaska.

Re: Iodine question To: Thyroiditis > Do most people here avoid even the RDA of iodine found in a multi > vitamin? What about iodine containing foods? Just wondering if there's > a general feeling about it. > > Ty! > Heidi > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Too much iodine of any type (natural or altered) can cause big > problems in those who have the genetics to develop thyroid disease. > And adding certain quantities of iodine to an already existing thyroid > problem can cause the disease to progress further. (see below). > > > > Even natural, direct-from-the-ocean seaweed itself can cause major

> issues, so it's not just certain types. But I recently found this > article that mentions how drastic the iodine content in seaweed > can vary: > > > >

June 25, 2008

htbacon wrote:

> Do most people here avoid even the RDA of iodine found in a multi

> vitamin? What about iodine containing foods? Just wondering if there'sa

general feeling about it.

>

Heidi,

I have to avoid iodine in multi vitamins, and in multiminerals, too. A

pain, as I have to take each and ever supplement individually to avoid it.

I have an actual IgE histamine reaction to iodine in any form, in any

compound or straight. So I avoid it everywhere it is found. I must still

get the RDA because in 23 years of avoidance, I have yet to accomplish a

goiter. If I could avoid it entirely I would. I might die, but some days

I think that would be preferable to dealing with the damned allergy, and

having to take antihistamines all the time. Antihistamines do have

unpleasant side effects. At any rate, I don't think I'd die of the

avoidance at this point, because I take thyroid hormone (T3) and thyroid

hormones are made of iodine. I think the reduction in the amount of free

iodine generated by conversion of T4 to T3 is one reason I have done

better on T3 only than I did on dessicated thyroid.

sol

June 25, 2008

do you have thyroid antibodies?

cindi

>

> I am confused now, I went to the Dr yesturday and she started me on

i-thyroid (iodine) since I am low and haveing a reaction to the Armor

Thyroid.

> This is all so new and confusing.

June 25, 2008

Hi there,

Over the years I notice there seems to be a lot of confusion over the

different types of TSH Receptor antibodies (TBII) and I think that's

because of a few very confusing website info pages. Just wanted to

clear up a few of those things that were incorrect....

TSH receptor antibodies (TRab) are antibodies that can take over

control of the thyroid gland's TSH receptors. Since TSH is what

controls the thyroid, the presence of these antibodies on the TSH-

Receptors can cause the thyroid to make too much hormone (TSab or

TSI) and other times, they can block stimulation to the thyroid,

causing hypO (TBab). A person with some of each type might even

be " euthyroid " . This is called " Euthyroid Graves Disease " .

There are even some TRab that bind to a section of the receptor that

will still allow TSH to share the location - these are " neutral "

TRab, and won't be interfering with the thyroid.

What Bj said about people being positive for these being at risk for

thyroid eye disease and the many other TSH-receptor immunity problems

(pretibial myxedema, acropachy, encephalopathy etc) was absolutely

correct.

But it's how we use these different TRab tests is where many folks

get confused: All of the TRab antibodies are " binding " types as they

all can " bind " to the TSH receptor sites. But TBII are ONLY those

those TRab that have *the ability to interfere with TSH* from binding

to these receptors. Thus, the TBII result will include any TSI

antibodies you have as well. (TSI can block TSH too, but these can

provide their own stimulation unlike all the others).

But you can certainly have TSH and have plenty of TRab at the same

time. It's just that, in some people, it's now thought that the TRab

can bind to the pituitary TSH-Receptors and cause a halt to TSH

secretion.

It used to be thought that all these antibodies were actually

different forms of antibodies causing the hyPO and hyPER states, but

scientist are now learning that the TSI antibodies most likely begin

binding a different way, often seen shortly after a patient starts

ATD therapy, which can turn them into " blocking " TRab. In other

words - you haven't developed a " new " type of ab; they are the same

antibodies - they just are changing their effects on us by binding a

different way.

This means a person who is hypO with TBII (but low TSI) is most

likely just experiencing Hypothyroid Graves disease, and these

antibodies do have the power to turn into the stimulating type at any

time in the future, which really causes turmoil in people trying to

juggle the hypO and hypER flips back and forth. (Like Bj's daughter).

This also means that not all people who are autoimmune-hyPO have

Hashi's. Hashi's is " Chronic inflammation resulting in permanent,

irreversible hypOthyroidism " . This is when there has been so much

thyroid damage that you will never be able to see the gland return to

normal function, whereas blocking TRab aren't damanging the gland,

but merely blocking TSH stimulation.

But if a person is flipping back and forth from hyPER to hyPO back to

hypER again, then the hypO phases are more likely to be from

involvement with TRab and not so much a result of thyroid cell damage.

But nearly everyone who has TRab will also have some cell damage

through complement and inflammation. That's what the immune system is

built to do; send inflammation where ever there's an antibody attack

going on. But in some people, inflammation remains very mild and

does not significantly affecting thyroid function. So despite

presence of TPOab, they technically do not have Hashi's.

I have Graves and am positive for TRab, but none are blocking (as of

yet). I also have TPOabs of 800 last time I checked, which indicates

inflammation. But since my thyroid is still functioning very well,

that means I don't have Hashi's....not yet anyway, but there's always

the possibility I will later on, if inflammation continues......

My son also has Graves and his first TPOab test was 20,000. Three

years later it was 10,000. His TRab were positive at dx of

hyperthyroid Graves, but are now negative. You'd think with abs that

high, he'd be permanently hyPO by now, but he's actually got really

good levels as of last week with a TSH of 1.52.

When I asked the doc about the ridiculously high TPOab, he said the

amount of TPOabs did not necessarily correlate with degree of damage

to the gland, since TPOabs are simply the " markers " of inflammation,

but do not cause the hypO themselves.

So anyway, those are just a few aids in sorting out this maze of

antibodies. Hope it helped!

Take care!

Val

>

> The way to find out if you have TSH receptor antibodies is to have

a TSI and/or TBII test(s). There are stimulating (TSI) and blocking

> and binding (TBII) receptors. They are normally thought of as

Graves

> Ab's, but some people that are HypO (Hashi's) also have them just

> like a small percentage of Grave's patients have Hashi Ab's

> (TPO/TG). If a Hashi person has them they usually also have a low

> TSH as the pituitary gland can't decipher between TSH and TSH

> receptors.

>

> I don't have any TSH receptor ab's, but my daughter has a high

level

> plus the TPO/TG ab's and the doc calls her his GH (Graves/Hashi)

> girl. It is no fun and very hard to treat much less properly. I

> think it's much worse than having Hashi's or Graves' alone.

Anyway

> if one has the TSH receptor ab's s/he is at risk of developing TED -

> Thyroid Eye Disease. You can get rid of the TSH receptor ab's by

> taking an anti-thyroid drug like PTU. The trick is finding a doc

who

> will prescribe both an ATD and a thyroid replacement hormone; this

is

> known as block and replace treatment. There is no known way to rid

> the body of the TPO and TG ab's. Selenium, eating a very healthy

> diet, other minerals like zinc and iron etc. helps in a lot of

Hashi

> folks.

>

> HTH, Bj

>

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > As you can see I am not . I do not have any hyper

symptoms

> to

> > > constantly monitor like some others here do including . I

> am

> > > totally HypOO without any TSH receptor ab's to swing me hyper.

> > >

> > > I take 3/4 of an Iodoral tablet; one tablet has 5 mg iodine and

> 7.5

> > > mg iodide. So I take roughly 3.75 mg of iodine and 5.625 mg of

> > > iodide a day even though it's controversial. All I know is

that

> it

> > > has helped me some as my progesterone has improved. I believe

> that

> > > it must be individualized just like a thyroid med must be for

> each

> > > patient. I don't think anyone with Hashi's could handle or

> benefit

> > > from 50 mg of Iodoral a day. I think if a small amount works

for

> you

> > > go for it and if it doesn't don't use it.

> > >

> >

>

June 26, 2008

I have to avoid iodine (although now I have progressed to using sea salt). I have Dermatitis Herpetiformis the skin form of Celiac (no gluten)......iodine sets the itchy rash over the top....CT scans are an issue for me as are halides and dairy (casein).My intestinal damage is so extensive that liquid supplements work much better than tablets or caps.In a quest for better health,Joan --

htbacon wrote:

> Do most people here avoid even the RDA of iodine found in a multi

> vitamin? What about iodine containing foods? Just wondering if there'sa general feeling about it.