Re: Iodine question

[Guest guest]

cindi22595 wrote:

> Steph, owner of Iodine group, said that Dr. Brownstein said the

> iodine in Armour is unuseable by the body - but I never got an answer

> as to why it wouldn't be....it's an interesting question to me....

> cindi

>

I'd be interested if you find out more. T4 either synthetic or from

armour is converted to T3 by losing an iodine atom. So far as I know an

iodine atom is an iodine atom, period. So the free iodine produced from

T4 converting to T3 should certainly be useable by the body. I certainly

have gotten strong indications that the freed up iodine causes me

allergy problems.

sol

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am surprised you can eat that will all the soy in it, really bad for thyroid patients

Re: Re: Iodine question

Joan,I can't even use sea salt. I have lately been able to have a couple slices of ezekial bread once in a while. It contains sea salt. I also have to avoid carrageenan and other seaweed thickeners, which makes many dairy products a problem for me. I've found I can have some cottage cheese, if I rinse off all the gunk it comes in, LOL. At one point, I considered that I might have DH, because of the iodine connection.solJoan Dwyer wrote:> I have to avoid iodine (although now I have progressed to using sea > salt). I have Dermatitis Herpetiformis the skin form of Celiac (no > gluten)......iodine sets the itchy rash over the top....CT scans are > an issue for me as are halides and dairy (casein).>> My intestinal damage is so extensive that liquid supplements work much > better than tablets or caps.>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I was diagnosed a month ago by biopsy and then confirmed with blood work. Why don't they do the blood work in the first place and save me the $3000.00 biopsy price.

Sonya - Anchorage, Alaska. Re: Iodine question To: Thyroiditis > do you have thyroid antibodies? > cindi > > > > > > I am confused now, I went to the Dr yesturday and she started > me on > i-thyroid (iodine) since I am low and haveing a reaction to the > Armor > Thyroid. > > This is all so new and confusing. > >

[Guest guest]

>

> HI Val -

>

> Just a question on your last email - I think those with Celiac can

have " reversible " Hashi's, as once the Celiac is treated, the

antibodies subside. Have you heard this?

>

> Jim (Hashi's)

>

Hi Jim,

I've never found any info that mentions the same lymphocytes that

cause Hashi's are the same involved in Celiac. Perhaps if you can

reduce the inflammation " all around " you can reduce inflammation of

both? - that's probably logical.

But Hashi's itself is when your thyroid has been infiltrated by

killer immune cells that destroy inner follicular thyroid cells and

cause irreversible damage. Think of scar tissue. This scar tissue

makes it impossible for those particular cells to perform ever again.

You may see the thyroid gland enlarge, to try and make up for the

lost production - this occurs mostly when TSH remains high - which is

a thyroid cell growth stimulator. But those other cells are gone for

good, so you can't reverse that part, even after you get the

inflammation under control.

If this lymphocytic infiltration continues, more and more of the

gland will become full of scar tissue, and hyPO will become permanent

as the gland becomes more fibrous.

Val

[Guest guest]

Hi Val - Thanks for the info. I guess I'm starting to wonder the following: what actually IS the criteria for diagnosis of Hashi's? Is it a specific TYPE of antibody you have that is attacking the thyroid, or is it ANY type of antibody you may have that is attacking it? I just keep wondering, what if my body is making antibodies because something is wrong somewhere else (i.e. Celiac), and these antibodies are attacking the thyroid. Remove the Celiac, remove the antibodies, remove the attack on the thyroid. I guess what I am starting to wonder is if the doc has made a correct diagnosis of Hashi's in me. What should I ask as far as how he knows it's Hashi's? All I remember him saying upon diagnosis (which

wasn't until about 6-7 years after I was first diagnosed hyPO and put on Synthroid) was "you have Hashimoto's due to antibodies attacking the thyroid." I'm not sure he knows/said a specific TYPE of antibody was in my blood. So I guess that remains my question - what specific type of antibody is the basis for correct Hashi's diagnosis, and how does one identify it on the blood test? Thanks for any info you can provide, Jim Re: Iodine question

>

> HI Val -

>

> Just a question on your last email - I think those with Celiac can

have "reversible" Hashi's, as once the Celiac is treated, the

antibodies subside. Have you heard this?

>

> Jim (Hashi's)

>

Hi Jim,

I've never found any info that mentions the same lymphocytes that

cause Hashi's are the same involved in Celiac. Perhaps if you can

reduce the inflammation "all around" you can reduce inflammation of

both? - that's probably logical.

But Hashi's itself is when your thyroid has been infiltrated by

killer immune cells that destroy inner follicular thyroid cells and

cause irreversible damage. Think of scar tissue. This scar tissue

makes it impossible for those particular cells to perform ever again.

You may see the thyroid gland enlarge, to try and make up for the

lost production - this occurs mostly when TSH remains high - which is

a thyroid cell growth stimulator. But those other cells are gone for

good, so you can't reverse that part, even after you get the

inflammation under control.

If this lymphocytic infiltration continues, more and more of the

gland will become full of scar tissue, and hyPO will become permanent

as the gland becomes more fibrous.

Val

[Guest guest]

i think many docs do. i never had a biopsy. diagnosed by labs....

cindi

>

> Yes, I was diagnosed a month ago by biopsy and then confirmed with

blood work. Why don't they do the blood work in the first place and

save me the $3000.00 biopsy price.

[Guest guest]

the two antibodies that are used for diagnostic purposes for hashi's

are:

anti-tpo (thyroid peroxidase)

antithyroglobulin

they're used for diagnostic purposes because about 95% and 90%,

respectively, of hashi's folks...have these antibodies. hashi's

folks can have one or both - and of course those percentages mean

that up to 10% Don't have antibodies.

Other evidence of thyroid disease must also be present for a

diagnosis - is my understanding. Like high TSH or low Free values,

symptoms....

Family history of thyroid disorder should be considered....

I've read that if suspicion is high for hashi's (say high TSH, family

history, lots of symptoms)...but antibodies are absent...then a

biopsy can be utilized to confirm a diagnosis.

cindi

>

> Hi Val -

>

> Thanks for the info. I guess I'm starting to wonder the following:

what actually IS the criteria for diagnosis of Hashi's?

[Guest guest]

They make ONE bread without soy, and that is the only one I can eat.

sol

JAMY wrote:

> I am surprised you can eat that will all the soy in it, really bad for

> thyroid patients

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

A lot of people make the wrong assumption that TPOabs and TGabs

actually are what causes the inflammation, but that's not the case.

In Hashi's, the inflammation is being directly caused by lymphoctyes

such as killer T-Cells, cytokines and macrophages and even sometimes

eosinophils (the flame throwers of the immune system that make us

have sore throats when we catch a virus). All these lymphocytes are

signalled to this attack by other immune system cells - sometimes

presence of antibodies can even bring them on. This is

called " Complement " .

*AFTER* these killer cells have done their damage, THAT is when the

body makes TPOabs - to come clean up the spilled peroxidase that has

leaked from those ruptured, inflammed thyroid cells. That's why

TPOab/TGab are called " MARKERS " for Hashis. They don't cause Hashis,

but are an indication that's what may be going on. But these can

appear at ANY time a thyroid cell has been broken, including in some

people who have suffered neck injury or strangulation.

But just because you test negative for TPOabs does not mean you dont

have them - these can sometimes remain contained within the thyroid

and not be picked up in a blood test. That's why some people with

autoimmune thyroid disease can test neg for TPOab - but if they were

to do a biopsy of the gland, they'd probably find lymphocytes and

TPOabs inside the tissue. They are finding this situation all the

time.

In Hashi's, we don't yet know the exact source of what is encouraging

this attack. Maybe another antibody that hasn't even been discovered

yet? Or maybe TRab themselves?

But the attack has little to do with the tissue being destroyed - the

source of our problem goes all the way back to the basic workings of

our immune system: Regulatory T-Cells.

We do know that ALL autoimmune diseases are caused by genetic

mutations where Regulatory T-Cells are shut down for some unknown

reason. Regulatory T-Cells are the " managers " of the immune system

and they are supposed to control when the immune system should

attack - and when it shouldn't. They are the watchdogs.

Even a healthy person with healthy REG-T's might be experiencing

small autoimmune attacks now and then, but the REG-Ts stop the battle

immediately. But those of us who are missing the REG-T's dont have

a " manager " who is on the job, and the attack turns into a full out

battle.

These REG-T's are also gene specific --- each gene has it's own Reg-T

cell groups. We now are learning that many of our mutated genes are

actually being " SILENCED " by master gene regulators. As long as we

have healthy doses of these master gene regulators, the autoimmune

genes won't be activiated and our Reg-Ts will remain on the job. But

as soon as the master gene regulators disappear (due to stress,

exhaustion, bad diet, illness, toxins or whatever the cause may be)

then the bad gene " WAKES UP " and the associated Reg-T cells vanish.

This leaves us WIDE OPEN to an autoimmune attack that can go way out

of control.

Now, if your Celiacs gene is connected to your Hashimotos gene, then

you can see how both situtaions can occur during the same " Gene Wake

Up " . And, in turn, both situations will dissappear if you can get

that gene silenced again. (When REG-Ts come back and get control of

the situation)

Right now there is a BIG PUSH in the immunology world toward a new

discovery that looks like it can restart those master gene

regulators -- and the main focus is something called " HDAC

Inhibitors " (histone deacetylase inhibitors). They are finding that

bad genes OF ALL TYPES (including cancer genes) can be silenced using

HDAC-I. Autoimmune diseases are also on target to benefit from this

discovery. It's a very exciting time right now!

Our bodies make HDAC-Inhibitors (butyrate) by eating high fiber foods

and having ample bacteria in the gut to break it down; the by-product

is butyrate. This may explain why eating a high fiber diet can lower

your risk of cancer.

This link explains how HDAC inhibitors can " Silence " those bad

genes/DNA that need to remain " asleep " so we don't develop these

illnesses:

http://scienceandreason.blogspot.com/2007/07/histone-deacetylase-

enzymes.html

Here's another good read about this REG-T stuff:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/wifb-cot011607.php

Cracking open the black box of autoimmune disease

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (January 21, 2007) -- Autoimmune diseases such as

type 1 diabetes, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis occur when the immune

system fails to regulate itself. But researchers have not known

precisely where the molecular breakdowns responsible for such

failures occur. Now, a team of scientists from the Whitehead

Institute and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute have identified a key

set of genes that lie at the core of autoimmune disease, findings

that may help scientists develop new methods for manipulating immune

system activity.

" This may shorten the path to new therapies for autoimmune disease, "

says Whitehead Member and MIT professor of biology Young,

senior author on the paper that will appear January 21 online in

Nature. " With this new list of genes, we can now look for possible

therapies with far greater precision. "

The immune system is often described as a kind of military unit, a

defense network that guards the body from invaders. Seen in this way,

a group of white blood cells called T cells are the frontline

soldiers of immune defense, engaging invading pathogens head on.

These T cells are commanded by a second group of cells called

regulatory T cells. Regulatory T cells prevent biological " friendly

fire " by ensuring that the T cells do not attack the body's own

tissues. Failure of the regulatory T cells to control the frontline

fighters leads to autoimmune disease.

Scientists previously discovered that regulatory T cells are

themselves controlled by a master gene regulator called Foxp3. Master

gene regulators bind to specific genes and control their level of

activity, which in turn affects the behavior of cells. In fact, when

Foxp3 stops functioning, the body can no longer produce working

regulatory T cells. When this happens, the frontline T cells damage

multiple organs and cause symptoms of type 1 diabetes and Crohn's

disease. However, until now, scientists have barely understood how

Foxp3 controls regulatory T cells because they knew almost nothing

about the actual genes under Foxp3's purview.

Researchers in Young's Whitehead lab, working closely with

immunologist Harald von Boehmer of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute,

used a DNA microarray technology developed by Young to scan the

entire genome of T cells and locate the genes controlled by Foxp3.

There were roughly 30 genes found to be directly controlled by Foxp3

and one, called Ptpn22, showed a particularly strong affinity.

" This relation was striking because Ptpn22 is strongly associated

with type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and Graves'

disease, but the gene had not been previously linked to regulatory T-

cell function, " says Marson, a MD/PhD student in the Young

lab and lead author on the paper. " Discovering this correlation was a

big moment for us. It verified that we were on the right track for

identifying autoimmune related genes. "

> >

> > HI Val -

> >

> > Just a question on your last email - I think those with Celiac

can

> have " reversible " Hashi's, as once the Celiac is treated, the

> antibodies subside. Have you heard this?

> >

> > Jim (Hashi's)

> >

>

> Hi Jim,

>

> I've never found any info that mentions the same lymphocytes that

> cause Hashi's are the same involved in Celiac. Perhaps if you can

> reduce the inflammation " all around " you can reduce inflammation of

> both? - that's probably logical.

>

> But Hashi's itself is when your thyroid has been infiltrated by

> killer immune cells that destroy inner follicular thyroid cells and

> cause irreversible damage. Think of scar tissue. This scar tissue

> makes it impossible for those particular cells to perform ever

again.

>

> You may see the thyroid gland enlarge, to try and make up for the

> lost production - this occurs mostly when TSH remains high - which

is

> a thyroid cell growth stimulator. But those other cells are gone

for

> good, so you can't reverse that part, even after you get the

> inflammation under control.

>

> If this lymphocytic infiltration continues, more and more of the

> gland will become full of scar tissue, and hyPO will become

permanent

> as the gland becomes more fibrous.

>

> Val

>

[Guest guest]

Another important note:

An antibody is actually made from a piece of the item that is being

attacked. When the B-Cells produce antibodies, they use

this " antigen " to make an exact replica of the target that the

antibody will carry around -- and will continue seeking until it

finds the target. Once found, the antibody can " LOCK " onto the

target, but ONLY that particular target.

This means that an antibody built to go after thyroperoxidase (TPO)

antigen will not be able to " LOCK " onto endomysium, transglutaminase,

or gliadin (the antigens in Celiac's disease). So the two are

independent of each other.

But as I said before, if you can reduce inflammation in general (by

better diet, etc), and in doing so, perhaps build back up your HDAC-

inhibitors, which can silence bad genes, which brings back Regultory

T Cells that can stop both attacks. This is what they call an " immune

system cascade " making autoimmune diseases so very complex, but

shows they are closely related to each other.

Val

> > >

> > > HI Val -

> > >

> > > Just a question on your last email - I think those with Celiac

> can

> > have " reversible " Hashi's, as once the Celiac is treated, the

> > antibodies subside. Have you heard this?

> > >

> > > Jim (Hashi's)

> > >

> >

> > Hi Jim,

> >

> > I've never found any info that mentions the same lymphocytes that

> > cause Hashi's are the same involved in Celiac. Perhaps if you

can

> > reduce the inflammation " all around " you can reduce inflammation

of

> > both? - that's probably logical.

> >

> > But Hashi's itself is when your thyroid has been infiltrated by

> > killer immune cells that destroy inner follicular thyroid cells

and

> > cause irreversible damage. Think of scar tissue. This scar tissue

> > makes it impossible for those particular cells to perform ever

> again.

> >

> > You may see the thyroid gland enlarge, to try and make up for the

> > lost production - this occurs mostly when TSH remains high -

which

> is

> > a thyroid cell growth stimulator. But those other cells are gone

> for

> > good, so you can't reverse that part, even after you get the

> > inflammation under control.

> >

> > If this lymphocytic infiltration continues, more and more of the

> > gland will become full of scar tissue, and hyPO will become

> permanent

> > as the gland becomes more fibrous.

> >

> > Val

> >

>