Re: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

[Guest guest]

No prob, , looked like something that someone could print and bring to their doctor to prove that TSH is not the way to determine if someone is hypothyroid, or has thyroid issues.JeffSubject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

Thanks so much, Jeff. I posted it to our Files section.

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Thanks, but I'm a bit confused... the article that I posted had nothing to do with Iodine, it was a study on the relationship of Reverse T3 to Free T3 levels in male patients with thyroid problems, where the Free T4 and TSH levels did not necessarily indicate a thyroid problem, and it also discusses how Synthetic T4 alone will not alleviate the problem for those with T3 deficiencies.JeffFrom: b53cjf

To: Thyroiditis Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:33:25 PMSubject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

Jeff,

I saw you posted this on Thyroid group. Here is my response in case

you didn't see it (I called you Jim, sorry!) There's also another

response there from Cindi.

____________ _________ _________ _________

Very good detective work on your part.

As I said to the person who called my attention to your post, I had

previously read that article by Abraham. It was difficult to take

the article seriously because he resorted to the name calling

(Iodophobes) a couple of times which was a clear indication to me that

his mind was closed to any possibility that iodine could have a down

side. Anytime someone twists a study or takes something out of

context to 'prove' a point, while simultaneously name calling, their

credibility goes out the window for me. People who are confident in

their position and the facts do not find it necessary to label and

name-call.

I also have hashi's and have spent many hours researching the

iodine/hashi' s connection, as many others here have also. While I

readily acknowledge that iodine has been incredibly helpful to many

people with thyroid problems, it is equally clear to me that it does

cause problems for some. I have yet to find a study proving that it

will never cause adverse reactions in those with autoimmune thyroid

disease, yet there seems to be an almost religious fervor in many of

the high-dose iodine proponents that causes them to become extremely

defensive anytime someone mentions they have reacted poorly to it.

I went hyper when I took it which was before I even knew I had hashi's

or had a positive TSI. That was prior to educating myself on all of

this. And we've all seen posts of people on these forums who also

experienced hyper symptoms from it, some ending up in the ER.

Dr. Abraham has shown that he made up his mind long ago that iodine

was safe for everybody and no facts or other evidence to the contrary

were going to change his mind. Brownstein's conclusions do not seem

to be backed up by solid evidence and seem to lack stringent clinical

controls, documentation, and follow-up. I've spoken with a couple of

his patients for whom the iodine caused problems, and there was no

documentation of the problems and minimal follow-up.

So for now, the preponderance of experience and studies do not support

the claims made by Abraham and Brownstein of the efficacy of high-dose

iodine therapy regardless of autoimmune or TSI status. Therefore it

seems prudent for those with hashi's and/or positive TSI to exercise

due diligence and caution prior to initiating any iodine therapy.

>

> No prob, , looked like something that someone could print and

bring to their doctor to prove that TSH is not the way to determine if

someone is hypothyroid, or has thyroid issues.

> Jeff

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

> Subject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine

Hypothyroid Issues

>

>

> Thanks so much, Jeff. I posted it to our Files section.

>

>

>

> _,_._,___

>

[Guest guest]

No problem.... JeffTo: Thyroiditis Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:58:29 PMSubject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

Oh, gosh, I'm so embarrassed. I just glanced at this and thought it

was the same person and same study. Please ignore my blunder. My

brain has not been reliable lately.

[Guest guest]

Hi , From what i got from the article was that Serum T3 level was less important then Free T3 and rT3, and the ratio of the two. From the article, you want the Free T3 in the high rang, and the rT3 in the low range. TSH of course, you want in the low range. From the article, a High Serum T4 might indicate that the liver and thyroid are not converting it to Ts, that is why the Free T and rT3 levels are so important, they tell the story of what your body is actually doing with the T4 that it is getting. If the rT3 was high, you are probably goingto want to ask the doctor to have him take your sone off of Armour for about 2 weeks, and on a T3 only med, like Cytomel, to get the T4 and rT3 levels down, but keeping T3 in his system, until the rT3 goes down. After about 2

weeks, I believe, he can go back on Armour. Good luck.JeffSubject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

My son's had his rT3 tested..but the lab didn't want to do T3, and T4..

they didn't think i needed these last 2 numbers. Told me T3,T4 was

obsolete..they did free T3 and Free t4 ...these numbers were

fine..toward the top of the range.

So the reverse t3 was a high..

Would anyone know if i should push for the T3, and T4 to be done..or

would the freet3/t4 be enough.? Tsh was also very good.

My son's doctor is among the few who knows about the t3/rt3

ratio..as my son's tsh has always been good..but he still told me he

wanted to watch his thyroid.. and asked for the t3/t4 and rt3.

My ds has autoimmune issues and his sister has hypo-t.

Thanks Jeff for sharing,

cathy

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[Guest guest]

<<thyroid are not converting it to Ts>> Ts should read T3 .... sorry, Fat Finger Syndrome....JeffTo: Thyroiditis ; cjb202207@...Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:07:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to

Determine Hypothyroid Issues

Hi , From what i got from the article was that Serum T3 level was less important then Free T3 and rT3, and the ratio of the two. From the article, you want the Free T3 in the high rang, and the rT3 in the low range. TSH of course, you want in the low range. From the article, a High Serum T4 might indicate that the liver and thyroid are not converting it to Ts, that is why the Free T and rT3 levels are so important, they tell the story of what your body is actually doing with the T4 that it is getting. If the rT3 was high, you are probably goingto want to ask the doctor to have him take your sone off of Armour for about 2 weeks, and on a T3 only med, like Cytomel, to get the T4 and rT3 levels down, but keeping T3 in his system, until the rT3 goes down. After about 2

weeks, I believe, he can go back on Armour. Good luck.JeffFrom: cathy <cjb202207yahoo (DOT) ca>Subject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine Hypothyroid Issues

My son's had his rT3 tested..but the lab didn't want to do T3, and T4..

they didn't think i needed these last 2 numbers. Told me T3,T4 was

obsolete..they did free T3 and Free t4 ...these numbers were

fine..toward the top of the range.

So the reverse t3 was a high..

Would anyone know if i should push for the T3, and T4 to be done..or

would the freet3/t4 be enough.? Tsh was also very good.

My son's doctor is among the few who knows about the t3/rt3

ratio..as my son's tsh has always been good..but he still told me he

wanted to watch his thyroid.. and asked for the t3/t4 and rt3.

My ds has autoimmune issues and his sister has hypo-t.

Thanks Jeff for sharing,

cathy

___

[Guest guest]

Hey, ,

I really liked your response, and hadn't read the original link yet,

so didn't know you had mistaken the study. NOW, I need the email or link

that your response IS appropriate to, please.

Don't worry about the error, I've done worse, LOL. But I am very

sympathetic to your embarrassment, having embarrassed myself so very often.

hugs,

sol

b53cjf wrote:

> Oh, gosh, I'm so embarrassed. I just glanced at this and thought it

> was the same person and same study. Please ignore my blunder. My

> brain has not been reliable lately.

>

>

>

>

>>

>>> No prob, , looked like something that someone could print and

>>>

>> bring to their doctor to prove that TSH is not the way to determine if

>> someone is hypothyroid, or has thyroid issues.

>>

>>> Jeff

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

>>> From: suuzin <suuzin@>

>>> Subject: Re: Study on use of rT3/T3 Ratio to Determine

>>>

>> Hypothyroid Issues

>>

>>> Thanks so much, Jeff. I posted it to our Files section.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> _,_._,___

>>>

>>>

>

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> *Note: Information is freely exchanged on this board based on patient

experiences, and should not be considered a medical recommendation. Yahoo!

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[Guest guest]

I guess I don't really need it to appreciate your reply, from which I

guess the original was promoting iodine over-enthusiastically? LOL.

Good iodine info in your reply anyway. I've saved it. In order to lessen

stress in my daily life I have left groups that are into reckless use of

iodine, so I don't think I will join that list just to view the original

that prompted your reply.

sol

b53cjf wrote:

> Hi Sol,

> The original post by Jim can be found here:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/thyroid/message/142164

>

> You have to be a member to view it. I would have posted the message

> here, but I didn't have the original poster's permission and didn't

> think it proper to post it here.

>

>

[Guest guest]

beckyjov wrote:

> BTW, Sol, did you ever get your high iron level down? If so, how?

>

>

Hi,

I don't know yet how my iron is doing. Second blood donation coming up

Dec. 4th, then I will try to get ferritin tested to see how much it has

lowered.

sol

P.S. Thanks for the info.