for kevin or maurice please

November 11, 2000

>Please can you tell me if honeyquat and honey powder are the same

>product. The application I want to use them for is as a conditioning

>agent in shampoo bars.

Honey Quat 50 (INCI name: Hydroxypropyltrimonium Honey) is

manufactured by Arch Chemical ( Industries). The

Honey Quat 50 is honey that has been modified to make it

substantive to hair and probably skin. It is used

primarily as a " humectant " for hair.

If your shampoo bars are based on traditional soaps, the

soap molecules might complex the Honey Quat 50. The

complex would not be substantive to the hair. Also, the

alkalinity of the soap may inactivate the Honey Quat 50.

I really don't know what honey powder is. It sounds like

honey with the water removed. I never " played " with honey

powder so I'm unable to give you any definitive info but I

would imagine that it is a humectant.

Sorry I can't provide you with more information.

Maurice

November 25, 2000

Hi guys

And before I start thank you Maurice with your help on the solid

shampoo bar, which is now succesfully formulated. Please can you have

a look at this link. It worries me that they say that sodium cocoyl

isethionate strips oil from the hair. They don't comment at all about

the SLS or SLES. I find that SCI is much milder and deliveres a non-

drying, creamy foam, although I have no problems with the SLES

either. I don't use SLS and I don't use Cocoamide DEA. I always add

betaine to the main surfactants. What are your comments please?

http://www.soapwizards.com/order.cgi?

cart_id=2369079.304 & page=matrix.html

Thanks as always

Nia

Wales, UK

November 25, 2000

>And before I start thank you Maurice with your help on the solid

>shampoo bar, which is now succesfully formulated. Please can you have

>a look at this link. It worries me that they say that sodium cocoyl

>isethionate strips oil from the hair.

I wouldn't consider this site as a source for unbiased

information. AFAIK, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate is

relatively mild and used in many syndet bars.

>They don't comment at all about

>the SLS or SLES. I find that SCI is much milder and deliveres a non-

>drying, creamy foam, although I have no problems with the SLES

>either. I don't use SLS and I don't use Cocoamide DEA. I always add

>betaine to the main surfactants. What are your comments please?

I never seen SLES used in a syndet bar. Too much water.

IMO, SLS would be too drying.

Maurice

November 25, 2000

Nia,

Check out US Patent 4,851,147 for some information on using

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate to make a transparent soap bars.

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

While you're searching US Patents, do a Boolian search

using Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate and soap as the search

constraints and you'll get 180 hits.

Maurice

>

>>And before I start thank you Maurice with your help on the solid

>>shampoo bar, which is now succesfully formulated. Please can you have

>>a look at this link. It worries me that they say that sodium cocoyl

>>isethionate strips oil from the hair.

>

>I wouldn't consider this site as a source for unbiased

>information. AFAIK, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate is

>relatively mild and used in many syndet bars.

>

>>They don't comment at all about

>>the SLS or SLES. I find that SCI is much milder and deliveres a non-

>>drying, creamy foam, although I have no problems with the SLES

>>either. I don't use SLS and I don't use Cocoamide DEA. I always add

>>betaine to the main surfactants. What are your comments please?

>

>I never seen SLES used in a syndet bar. Too much water.

>IMO, SLS would be too drying.

>

>Maurice

>

November 26, 2000

Nia,

Almost any syndet will strip the hair if you use it at a high enough

concentration. When you create a shampoo product the typical solids levels

of the actives in the product will range from 10-12% for the low end

products up to ~22% for the high end salon use products. Therefore when you

have a properly formulated product for general use the solids are typically

around 15-16%. These solids include not only the combination of surfactants

but also the amide and the salt. The remainder is the volatiles (water) and

other non surfactant related ingredients.

When searching the net for chemical information it is important that you

consider the source of the data that you receive. The place to receive the

accurate data for SCI would be a manufacturer of the material and not from a

site like this. I noticed on the page that you supplied the URL there are

misspellings of the trade names of branded ingredients and pure BS about the

use or function of ingredients. It is painfully apparent that the owners of

the website you have referenced are not reputable in my opinion and you have

done correctly in asking Maurice and me for the facts.

Regards,

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com