Re: Re: Operation Infinite Justice

[Guest guest]

Oh, of course. Israel really loves having all its young men killed, all the

world against it, and being a tiny country surrounded by enemies, in the

only part of the Middle East that doesn't even have any oil. Of course

Israel is responsible. I'm sure that our " esteemed " leader, even though he

is partly Jewish himself, would rush to agree with you - he rejoices in

being " a man without a country " - so it's OK to trash the free world on this

list, as far as he is concerned.

Please explain to me how Israel ever benefits from war, Caroline. In my

experience Israel is always blamed for everything, and her citizens live in

terror all the time.

fa

Re: Operation Infinite Justice

> And I wonder what the reactions would be if it turns out that the

> Israeli governement/ secret service is behind all this.. they are the

> only one who benefit from this all...

>

> Caroline

>

>

> >

> >

> > >> I wonder if " INFINITE HUBRIS " appeared on the top ten list?

> > >> Probably not....wouldn't be prudent ~

> >

> > >LOL!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh Greg! I needed it.

> >

> > I truly see nothing funny about this. Infinite Justice is

> > an other way of saying divine justice to counter the

> > the term Jihad. It wasn't very laughable when they

> > hit the towers. We certainly can't leave it and do

> > nothing about it. When we are dead, shall we just

> > let them turn over our stone to find our treasure,

> > " Peace on Earth " . As President Bush has said,

> > " liberty and justice have always been at war

> > against oppression " . Jung has said that the

> > opposites are reconciled through only two

> > methods. One is love and the other is war.

> > Sometimes violence must be answered with

> > violence. The US went at war against Germany

> > and Japan, answered vilolence with vilolence.

> > Today we are freinds and allies. Had the US

> > sat back and prayed for peace when it was

> > time to act, we could today be under a Nazzi

> > or a communist regime.

> >

> > What has to be done will be done because

> > what was cannot continue. The solidarity seen

> > throughout the world was breath taking and

> > even I had trouble holding back my emotions.

> > I saw a union, I saw a oneness as the greater

> > world came together for freedom. One sentiment

> > with one soul. It could have been you or me in the

> > Tower or the hijacked airplane. It could have been

> > our kids and loved ones. No this is not Hubris, this

> > is Infinite Justice as a fight for freedom. There is

> > nothing to laugh about that, certainly not

> > out loud.

> >

> > Regards

> > Steve Kalec

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 02:24:46 -0000, JUNG-FIRE wrote:

>

> > >

> > > Peace Steve, Dan

> > >

> > > Please separate the joke about the name from the horrific

> events. If we

> > > lose our sense of humor we will never make it through this.

> > >

> >

> > Sorry, I'm not much in the mood for jokes. One good thing, though -

> > maybe, at least, the goddamned sixties are finally over.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Dan Watkins

>

> Dang Dan, and I was just gettin ready to suggest folks having another

> Woodstock Festival. You know, relatively fresh air, folks talkin

> face to face instead of on this one-eyed PC screen. Whaddaya say!

>

> The Mutt

>

Sign me up Mutt. I can still remember the sixties (unlike some of my

friends), but I missed out on Woodstock. You plan it, I'll be there.

Obla dee obla da life goes one.....

Greg

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[Guest guest]

Caroline,

Your lack of understanding of Israel and the Jewish religion is astounding.

Could there be some anti-Semitism mixed in with fear in your shortsighted

post?

You honestly believe the Israeli government or its intelligence services

decided to sacrifice 6000 people? To what end? To have more misguided people

like you make the same remarks you made? To convince American those that

those who have suffered terror win anything by continue it? Is your

purpose to galvanize those afraid of terror, that safety lies in not

supporting Israel?

Your knowledge of history is pretty poor. The US was the first to recognize

the new State of Israel. Have you any idea how much money citizens of this

country have poured into Israel? Or the amount of military aid, or the

sharing of information has been going on? How many Americans live, and visit

Israel? How many Jews were killed in our recent horror.? Israel is many

things, but it is not stupid enough to attack its best friend or...immoral

enough.

It is in my opinion shameful to start or continue rumors which only defeat

the unity we are trying to achieve in the world. There is no, NO basis for

your remarks in past behavior, in friendship, in the character of the

millions of Jews you malign, or in logic. The last most particularly.

Please do not allow the dreaded fear of terrorism, and prejudiced views

cloud your reality,your thinking or your humanity.Does this kind of thought

bring more consciousness and peace to this troubled world? Is there anything

Jungian about prejudice, fear, maligning, or spreading rumors or fear? Does

not individuation point in exactly the opposite direction? Are we not

supposed to uplift the consciousness of the world instead of spreading

darkness?

Free speech is part of our freedom we so cherish. It is part of Israel's

also. No one will harm you for your outrageous remarks because we allow

anyone to voice an opinion. We even, in this wonderful country, suffer fools

with patience. as we must tolerate the intolerant, the ignorant and the

prejudiced among us.

Toni

caroline.g@... wrote:

> And I wonder what the reactions would be if it turns out that the

> Israeli governement/ secret service is behind all this.. they are the

> only one who benefit from this all...

>

> Caroline

>

>

> >

> >

> > >> I wonder if " INFINITE HUBRIS " appeared on the top ten list?

> > >> Probably not....wouldn't be prudent ~

> >

> > >LOL!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh Greg! I needed it.

> >

> > I truly see nothing funny about this. Infinite Justice is

> > an other way of saying divine justice to counter the

> > the term Jihad. It wasn't very laughable when they

> > hit the towers. We certainly can't leave it and do

> > nothing about it. When we are dead, shall we just

> > let them turn over our stone to find our treasure,

> > " Peace on Earth " . As President Bush has said,

> > " liberty and justice have always been at war

> > against oppression " . Jung has said that the

> > opposites are reconciled through only two

> > methods. One is love and the other is war.

> > Sometimes violence must be answered with

> > violence. The US went at war against Germany

> > and Japan, answered vilolence with vilolence.

> > Today we are freinds and allies. Had the US

> > sat back and prayed for peace when it was

> > time to act, we could today be under a Nazzi

> > or a communist regime.

> >

> > What has to be done will be done because

> > what was cannot continue. The solidarity seen

> > throughout the world was breath taking and

> > even I had trouble holding back my emotions.

> > I saw a union, I saw a oneness as the greater

> > world came together for freedom. One sentiment

> > with one soul. It could have been you or me in the

> > Tower or the hijacked airplane. It could have been

> > our kids and loved ones. No this is not Hubris, this

> > is Infinite Justice as a fight for freedom. There is

> > nothing to laugh about that, certainly not

> > out loud.

> >

> > Regards

> > Steve Kalec

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve,

Last question first. I personally am constantly aware of my propensity to

inflation, therefore yes, " hubris " is one of my daily measurements.

Have I read any Jung at all? Well, I will let my correspondence of the last

few years answer that question, as well as the previous discussions on the

list. Do people who do not interpret Jung as you see him, not read Jung?

What I understand and do not understand is rather hard for an other person

to gauge is it not.? My opinion about a spiritual and philosophical movement

such as gnosticism is a little too complicated to ascertain from one remark

or be answered by disparagement. .

Sneer all you like at those who hold different views or warn about

hubris in

this field. I doubt that will bring this discussion to a worthwhile

conclusion.. I personally do not intend to engage you further in this

discussion., it is obviously fruitless.

Toni

Steve Kalec wrote:

> >> " His double functions are possible for him

> >> precisely because of his double nature: because

> >> he is so constituted that it is possible for him to

> >> embrace both the divine and the terrestrial at the

> >> same time. So let us not be afraid to tell

> >> the truth. The true man is above them

> >> ( the celestial gods), or at least equal to them.

> >> For no god leaves his sphere to come to earth,

> >> whereas man ascends to heaven and measures it.

> >> Let us dare to say that a man is a mortal god and

> >> a celestial god is an immortal man. "

> >> ___ Corpus Hermeticum ____

> >

> > Regards

> > Steve

>

> >Respected text or not - certainly we have the right

> >to question concepts like " ...no god leaves his sphere

> >to come to earth... " . If our perceptions inform us that

> >the earth herself is sacred,and the divine

> >is present in the sensual world which surronds us, and we

> >really are all *one*, perhaps we can escape the hubris

> >that we are actually seperate or above nature.

>

> Hubris ? Come on, lets get out of kindergarten and

> lets think psychology and philosophy. Of course

> the " part " can never be greater than the " whole " .

> That is why we speak in terms of Macrocosm and

> Microcosm. But if you have read any Jung at all,

> you would understand that the Above is the Below.

> That the Macrocosm is reflected in the Microcosm.

>

> I am sorry that you cannot understand the depth and

> gnostic value of such great tracts. Jung himself valued it

> very much. Jung referenced this work numerous times in

> his many works. The gods (Archetypes) are unconscious,

> it is through man that they become conscious. It is through

> him that gods (archetypes). The name of the game is

> becoming conscious, realising our divinity and as the

> Sepher Yetzira sais, to " Lead the creator back to his

> throne. "

>

> The above tract says, " whereas man ascends to

> heaven and measures it. " This is reference to the

> inner spiritual heaven. Man ascending in

> consciousness becoming as gods.

> Genesis 3:22 " And the Lord God said, behold, the

> man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

> and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also

> of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. "

>

> Is this also your famous word you keep repeating for

> all your answers HUBRIS ?

>

> -