Re: Coliform skin infection

[Guest guest]

> Hi

> I am about to visit a lady with a " yeast infection of the skin, of the

> coliform group " . It's very itchy. She also has arthritis. That's all I

know

> so far.

This doesn't make sense - coliforms are gram negative bacilliform bacteria,

completely different to yeasts (such as Candida).

> I've not treated this before. Any hints?

> Thanks

> Janet

Cheers

Graham White B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH.

Medical Herbalist

Bishop's Stortford & Buntingford

--------------------------------------------------------------------

gcwhite@...

[Guest guest]

on 2/9/02 3:20 pm, gcwhite at gcwhite@... wrote:

>> I am about to visit a lady with a " yeast infection of the skin, of the

>> coliform group " . It's very itchy. She also has arthritis. That's all I

> know

>> so far.

>

> This doesn't make sense - coliforms are gram negative bacilliform bacteria,

> completely different to yeasts (such as Candida).

Ah! Maybe that's why I've not treated it before!!

Having seen her, she's still adamant that that's the diagnosis. It's a

furious itching - had it 3 years. Started on arms, but she has it on her

back, tummy, legs. Both damp and dry areas. Not eczema or psoriasis

distribution. Not necessarily red till she scratches. Comes up as pimples,

not blisters. Starts with any contact. Washes only with water.

She's on frusemide - I'm not quite sure why, as no circulatory problems, but

she's " bedridden' with arthritic knees.

The books say frusemide rarely can cause a rash. Times seem to coincide.

Janet

[Guest guest]

In a message dated Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:44:56 +0100, janet@...

writes:

> The books say frusemide rarely can cause a rash. Times

> seem to coincide

The following is copied from the BNF monograph on frusemide I am not sure

whether it refers to withdrawl of the drug for skin rashes and

photosensitisation or just for bone marrow supression but it may be worth

checking with your patients GP (or ask a local pharmacist).

Side-effects: hyponatraemia, hypokalaemia, and hypomagnesaemia (see also section

2.2), hypochloraemic alkalosis, increased calcium excretion, hypotension; less

commonly nausea, gastro-intestinal disturbances, hyperuricaemia and gout;

hyperglycaemia (less common than with thiazides); temporary increase in plasma

cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations; rarely rashes, photosensitivity and

bone marrow depression (withdraw treatment), pancreatitis (with large parenteral

doses), tinnitus and deafness (usually with large parenteral doses and rapid

administration and in renal impairment)

The pharmacuetical journal Vol 260 p401 March 21 1998 in its advice to patients

on frusemide states:

Like all medicines, this one can have some unwanted effects. Nausea occasionally

occurs, but usually goes away if you keep taking the tablets. Tell your doctor

if you have headache, muscle cramps or dizziness. Tell you doctor straight away

if you have a skin rash.

Hope this helps.

Whitton

Senior Scientist

Herbal Apothecary Ltd

High Street

Syston

Leicester LE7 1GQ

Tel (0116)260 2690

Fax (0116) 2602757

Direct Line (0116)260 2963

[Guest guest]

Isn't it often the case that the circumstances precipitating yeast

overgrowth are often implicated in other microbial imbalances ?

Chenery

Rutland Biodynamics Ltd

Re: Coliform skin infection

> on 2/9/02 3:20 pm, gcwhite at gcwhite@... wrote:

>

> >> I am about to visit a lady with a " yeast infection of the skin, of the

> >> coliform group " . It's very itchy. She also has arthritis. That's all I

> > know

> >> so far.

> >

> > This doesn't make sense - coliforms are gram negative bacilliform

bacteria,

> > completely different to yeasts (such as Candida).

>

> Ah! Maybe that's why I've not treated it before!!

>

> Having seen her, she's still adamant that that's the diagnosis. It's a

> furious itching - had it 3 years. Started on arms, but she has it on her

> back, tummy, legs. Both damp and dry areas. Not eczema or psoriasis

> distribution. Not necessarily red till she scratches. Comes up as pimples,

> not blisters. Starts with any contact. Washes only with water.

> She's on frusemide - I'm not quite sure why, as no circulatory problems,

but

> she's " bedridden' with arthritic knees.

>

> The books say frusemide rarely can cause a rash. Times seem to coincide.

>

> Janet

>

>

>

> List Owner

>

>

>

> Graham White, MNIMH

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<It's furious itching - had it 3 years. Started on arms, but she has it on

her back, tummy, legs. Both damp and dry areas.... Not necessarily red till

she scratches. Comes up as pimples,not blisters. Starts with any

contact.She's on frusemide... " bedridden' with arthritic knees.>>

Dear Janet,

Has she ever had an abdominal op or gall bladder removed?

Can get severe itching from bile salts in skin. Case mentioned by Dr Le Fanu

in Telegraph June 9/02 of man who itched for 20 years without diagnosis

despite evry test you can think of. Problem dealt with with Questran, a

bile-sequestering drug.

Cheers

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Morag

Thanks for your reply. She insists she's never had anything wrong with her

digestion and is very regular etc. However, I think I'll pursue the bile

salts thread. However, she's had a row with her GP (not about coming to me,

but about his poor treatment over the years, so I don't know if we could

approach him on this now). She can be quite difficult - although who

wouldn't if they were itching all the time. What herbs, if she can't get

Questran?

Cheers

Janet

on 4/9/02 12:06 pm, Morag Chacksfield at moragchacksfield@... wrote:

>

> Dear Janet,

> Has she ever had an abdominal op or gall bladder removed?

> Can get severe itching from bile salts in skin. Case mentioned by Dr Le Fanu

> in Telegraph June 9/02 of man who itched for 20 years without diagnosis

> despite evry test you can think of. Problem dealt with with Questran, a

> bile-sequestering drug.

> Cheers

> Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

>

>

> > <<It's furious itching - had it 3 years. Started on arms, but she has it on

> her back, tummy, legs. Both damp and dry areas.... Not necessarily red till

> she scratches. Comes up as pimples,not blisters. Starts with any

> contact.She's on frusemide... " bedridden' with arthritic knees.>>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

>

>

>

> List Owner

>

>

>

> Graham White, MNIMH

>

>

[Guest guest]

From: Janet Elphinstone

<<...I'll pursue the bile salts thread... had a row with her GP ... don't

know if we could approach him on this now... What herbs, if she can't get

Questran?>>

Dear Janet,

Looking back through the mists of time to the digestion/nutrition bit of our

herbal course, I seem to remember that soluble fibre, especially pectin,

will help to sequester bile.

Then there's the enterohepatic circulation ( which acts to conserve bile) to

consider. Could there be functional inefficiency allowing bile salts into

the wider circulation? It was suggested that using a strong laxative once in

a while helps to shift the bile right out of the body, taking pressure off

the enterohepatic circulation and the liver.

On another tack, pregnant women can suffer from overall pruritus which is

attributed to excess bile salts in the circulation. I am not sure what this

is due to but it looks like a similar e-h circulation backing-up problem.

Maybe cholerectic liver herbs rather than chologogue liver herbs would help

in this situation?

Is there any chance your patient could have a blood test for bile salt

levels? Would it be sensitive enough?

Cheers,

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I've not followed all of this discussion but a very good, and proven way of

stimulating excretion of bile salts from liver is use of coffee enemas.

These are retention enemas and during the period of retention the bile ducts

are stimulated and bile salts excreted. Good description of effect and

application in Dr. Max Gerona's book Results of 50 cases. Can also send info

in the post on quantities, how etc if this would be helpful. Contact me off

list at .Allshorn@...

Re: Coliform skin infection

> From: Janet Elphinstone

> <<...I'll pursue the bile salts thread... had a row with her GP ... don't

> know if we could approach him on this now... What herbs, if she can't get

> Questran?>>

>

> Dear Janet,

> Looking back through the mists of time to the digestion/nutrition bit of

our

> herbal course, I seem to remember that soluble fibre, especially pectin,

> will help to sequester bile.

> Then there's the enterohepatic circulation ( which acts to conserve bile)

to

> consider. Could there be functional inefficiency allowing bile salts into

> the wider circulation? It was suggested that using a strong laxative once

in

> a while helps to shift the bile right out of the body, taking pressure off

> the enterohepatic circulation and the liver.

> On another tack, pregnant women can suffer from overall pruritus which is

> attributed to excess bile salts in the circulation. I am not sure what

this

> is due to but it looks like a similar e-h circulation backing-up problem.

> Maybe cholerectic liver herbs rather than chologogue liver herbs would

help

> in this situation?

> Is there any chance your patient could have a blood test for bile salt

> levels? Would it be sensitive enough?

>

> Cheers,

> Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

>

>

>

> >

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

>

>

>

> List Owner

>

>

>

> Graham White, MNIMH

>

>